Thursday, August 17, 2006

Neurodiversity's Estee Klar, Writer, Curator, Scumbag

I read Estee Klar's blog yesterday and decided to post a couple of comments to educate this ditz on the subject of autism. After I posted a reply to some anonymous knucklehead there which included a description of my son's problem with self-biting, Klar decided to simply delete my comment.
Klar evidently runs some sort of school and earns her living by keeping children from escaping the abyss of autism. If we cured her students, she'd probably be out panhandling to make her mortgage payment. This is one of the wackos who didn't make my roster. I'll be sure to include her on next year's team.
Estee came up with some project which she called TAAP, the same acronym Ray Gallup has been using for years for his Autism Autoimmunity Project. I think Estee's TAAP must stand for The Arrogant Anti-cure Platoon or some such similar tripe. I can only guess at MS Klar's motivation since she's obviously another dumb neurodiverse broad who deletes comments that she can't answer.
Perhaps the image of a child biting himself until he draws blood is too much for Klar to handle. She may find herself thinking that such behavior really should be cured, if at all possible. But, admitting that, and maybe even addressing it with some sort of answer might drive away some of her students and cost her some money. Reminds me of the three monkeys, See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil. Will deleting comments that demand an intelligent answer make that evil go away, MS Klar? It might disappear from her blog in Neurodiversityland but the problem is still out there Estee. Does anyone think Estee will answer here?
I'm betting I'll never hear from her since she already proved she can't defend her deranged position by trying to hide behind the delete keylike other well known neurodiverse bloggers.
http://joyofautism.blogspot.com/2006/08/pill-to-cure-autism-divide.html
Above is the link for MS Estee. The joy of autism, what crap. There is no joy in autism unless one is making a killing on tuitions. Is this person supposed to be some sort of expert on autism who deletes posts that demonstrate the suffering autistic children endure every damn day? What a God damn fraud!

172 comments:

Estee Klar-Wolfond said...

Will deleting comments that demand an intelligent answer make that evil go away, MS Klar?
______________

Only when the question is intelligent and is posited with respect.

Fore Sam said...

When you learn how to respect children who have been poisoned into the nightmare called autism, you may know the meaning of the word, lady.

Natalia said...

I don't know if this is useful or not but a lot of people I have read had or have "problems with self-biting" because they get frustrated with their carers or because they have not been taught a method of communication that works for them or because their communication method is not available at that time. Then when they had less frustration because they had a communication method, they didn't need to do that anymore.

Natalia said...

ie: it was due to outside problems, that could be changed.

Nathzn said...

John is it just me or has a few whole posts (along with there comments) been deleted from this site?

Sounds like the kettle calling the pot black

Kevin_1000 said...

When using the word autistic/autism, the severity/actual diagnosis should be stated. As the spectrum for this condition is vast.

Severe/profound autism is not something which should be celebrated (any sane person would agree with that), it is a very real disabling condition which is life long. Anything that has been proven to cure or help this condition, and is safe, should be considered. I believe it is a parents right to help their child the way they see fit.

Severe autism is fast becoming an 'invisible disability' and propaganda to celebrate it doesn't help. Parents of severley autistic children want no more than parents that have non autistic children: to be healthy, happy and achieve their full potential.

"The joy of autism": what a sick turn of phrase. It's comparable with:
"The joy of brain damage"
"The joy of paralysis"

Come on, wake up.

Fore Sam said...

Nathan;
Kettles can't talk.

Fore Sam said...

Kevin;
Do you think Estee and some of her friends take acid before they dream up these ethereal perspectives on autism?

Kevin_1000 said...

I think Estee and some of her friends should be force-fed acid, and experience a nightmarish 'bad trip' in order to give them some insight into the fearful and irrational world of severe or profoundly autistic children who have been force-fed mercury.

Fore Sam said...

Kevin;
Great idea! Let's form a posse to round them up. Which one should we catch first?

Kevin_1000 said...

nathzn seems to lack a little 'insight'....

Fore Sam said...

Hey Nathan;
I hit a few trifectas today and I'd like to share it with you. Why don't you send me your name and address so I can meet you and give you some cash.

Joseph said...

Johh, it looks like you have a new friend, unless that's Kevin C. or Brad with a different handle.

"The joy of autism": what a sick turn of phrase. It's comparable with:
"The joy of brain damage"
"The joy of paralysis"


That's a plausible-sounding argument, isn't it?

You won't find persons with brain damage or paralysis referring to their condition as a "joy" (I can't find any). Nor will you find family members using the term "joy". That's regardless of the severity of said conditions. I think anyone can see that it would not be appropriate to use the term "joy" in relation to those conditions.

But it's different with autism. Why that is should be studied by sociologists and disability experts, but that's just the way things are. It's not only Estee who uses positive terms to describe autism. There's Kevin Leitch - see his beautiful autism video. There's Jasmine O'Neill, a mute autistic woman who says her autism is a beautiful thing.

There's this taboo in autism which says that we're not supposed to say anything positive about autism, because there are negative aspects to it. And if we do say something positive, we need to find a way to seggregate a segment of the autistic population, such that it is impossible to say anything positive about the seggregated population.

Pragmatically, it seems difficult to find criteria by which to seggregate autistics to serve your purpose. The DSM-IV classification is not going to help you much it seems. Estee's son I believe is classically autistic, as is Kev's daugher, as is Jasmine O'Neill. Incidentally, there are papers which soundly argue that Asperger's syndrome is an impossible diagnosis. Even if you use something like self-injury as your criteria (John's favorite), you'll still find autistics who self-injure and like being autistic. Frankly, you have a tough job ahead of you.

Also, it appears that "joy" is in the eye of the beholder. Karen McCarron found her daughter's condition so unberable (and resistant to cure) she had to kill her. Katie's grandfather, on the other hand, thought Katie was "beautiful, precious, and happy."

Finally, while you won't find the word "joy" used to describe brain damage and paralysis, I challenge you to find negative language about those conditions that is consistently worse than what is routinely said about autism.

Nathzn said...

"Kettles can't talk."

now whose being too literal,

Kevin
profound autistics have already spoken (well typed out) against the drive for a cure.

Let the individual decided for themselves (we do live in this thing called a democracy you know)

Kevin_1000 said...

No Joseph!

A child whose day consists of huddling in the corner with there ears covered and rocking for several hours, then running round the house in anger slamming doors and screaming, self harming themselves by stotting their head off walls, punching brick walls with their bare fists, and YES pulling their toe nails out because they are rough or chipped, DOES NOT "LIKE BEING AUTISTIC"!

Kevin_1000 said...

Nat,

I have read books by Jasmine O'Neil(Through The Eyes Of Aliens), Donna Williams (Somebody Nowhere) and other 'autistics' and found them very enlightening and a good insight into the 'autistic' mind. They are 'autistic' but I doubt they're still wearing nappies. My point being they're are many many degrees of 'autism'. Daniel Tammet is 'autistic' and is a genius. It has been suggested that Albert Einstein possesed 'autistic' traits.

Severe or proufoundly autistic children can't decide!

Kevin_1000 said...

Joseph,

I'm not AKA Kevin C or Brad whoever they are?

I am a sane and sensible individual who agrees with Mr Best's views. People like you, with nothing reasonable or relevant to say about autism, will compel others like me to join John in speaking up against you.

Fore Sam said...

Nat;
You need to question the identity and motives of the most vocal and, seemingly literate of your alliance. They are playing a game with you that is preventing you from helping yourself. This is all by design for they are intelligent people. They have taken an element of truth and skewed it quite convincingly to your detriment.
The people who poisoned you as a baby do not want you to cure yourself as your cure is evidence against them that will cost them all they have and possibly land them in prison. You are being used as a pawn in a big stakes game.
You need to ask yourself why I have been banned from blogs run by Orac who is a friend of Paul Offitt who poisons babies for a living; Neurodiversity .com whose prime mission is to discredit the scientists who proved the mercury autism connection and other places where the prevalent discussion is not how to help autistics but how to discredit those who help autistics. I haven't been banned for using foul language as some claim or being rude. I've been banned because I am a threat to them. I know the truth about mercury and autism and I'm much smarter than the lot of them put together. They can't come up with any lies to discredit what I say so they ban me.
You are a victim, Nathan. They have preyed upon you to clamor for respect instead of a cure. You should be demanding millions of dollars in compensation for the damage that mercury has done to you instead of letting these assholes use their high intelligence to hornswaggle you into "celebrating" the fact that your brain has been damaged by mercury.

Joseph said...

A child whose day consists of huddling in the corner with there ears covered and rocking for several hours, then running round the house in anger slamming doors and screaming, self harming themselves by stotting their head off walls, punching brick walls with their bare fists, and YES pulling their toe nails out because they are rough or chipped, DOES NOT "LIKE BEING AUTISTIC"!

And how did you determine that? They told you? I'm not saying that your statement doesn't make sense on the surface. But reality can be different to the way you think it works.

Joseph said...

I am a sane and sensible individual who agrees with Mr Best's views.

OK. For reference, John's views are summarized here.

Kevin_1000 said...

Joseph,

I have a severely autistic son.

You are truly misguided. You have no experience of severe or profound autism. Not all 'autistics' are geniuses and authors of books. It seems that the severe and proufound autistics have to suffer in silence to preserve your glamourous definition of autism.

Because the autistic spectrum is so vast, each adult and child are unique in the way autism manifests. You cannot lump all autistics into the same catagory to suit your purpose.

I am only concerned with my son and enabling him to communicate and live an independent life, which you already have. Would you deny someone the chance to reach the same level of independence as you?

Kevin_1000 said...

Joseph,

Had a quick glance at your blog. The views I'm referring to are John's views on mercury poisoning. I cannot comment on views that are second hand or may be out of context.

I see that you are 'autistic'. Obviously not severe or profound. What catagory do you fall into.

Joseph said...

Joseph,
I have a severely autistic son.
You are truly misguided. You have no experience of severe or profound autism.


And how exactly would you know that? What is this, a contest of who's got the most severe autistic child?

Not all 'autistics' are geniuses and authors of books.

Please refer me to the page or article that says all autistics are geniuses and authors of books.

It seems that the severe and proufound autistics have to suffer in silence to preserve your glamourous definition of autism.

Please refer me to the glamorous definition of autism. I wasn't aware there was one.

Because the autistic spectrum is so vast, each adult and child are unique in the way autism manifests.

Evidently.

You cannot lump all autistics into the same catagory to suit your purpose.

What is my purpose, pray tell? I should inform you that it is not I who lumps all autistics into the same category. The psychiatry profession, starting with Kanner, proposed the construct and later expanded it. And they have been unable to find a consistent, sound way to break it appart.

I am only concerned with my son and enabling him to communicate and live an independent life, which you already have. Would you deny someone the chance to reach the same level of independence as you?

And I am against this how?

I also have a non-verbal son who I hope is able to learn to communicate in some way.

Had a quick glance at your blog. The views I'm referring to are John's views on mercury poisoning. I cannot comment on views that are second hand or may be out of context.

Sure. John can post his views on which of the quotes he thinks are out of context. I think he has. Either way, you have a nice representative of your side of debate right there. And the link to mercury is very much dead at this point, with John essentially being the only person left publicly still arguing for it, until you showed up.

I see that you are 'autistic'. Obviously not severe or profound. What catagory do you fall into.

I'll be ready to answer that just as soon as you tell me your dick size and your social security number.

The debate over LFA vs. HFA is a tired debate. I'll refer you to some posts on the subject so you can get familiar with the state of the discussion:

Kev

Ballastexistenz

Kev

You should frequent Kev's blog and offer up your opinions. That's the autism blog with most traffic on the web.

Fore Sam said...

Joe;
How many sane people do you think want to post on Kev's blog just so he can delete their comments and ban them when he is made to look foolish?
The link to mercury is not the least bit dead. I may be one of the few who bother arguing with the neurodiverse about it but that's because I want to help you. Nobody else gives a damn about you and couldn't be bothered with your inane arguments. They are busy bothering with politicians where they might accomplish something and curing their kids. I just have more time than most people so I can publicly oppose your nonsense and point out to anyone who cares that you are all either shams or just plain stupid.

Joseph said...

John, if you know of specific notable comments that have been deleted from Kev's blog, I'd suggest you post them in your blog, or ask around for said comments. As far as banning, I know Kev bans trolls - who could blame him? I don't think he has banned anyone who engages in somewhat relevant/respectful debate, regardless of their views (e.g. Brad, Erik, David H).

Joseph said...

It should also be noted that Kev gave you a chance to debate your views in length here.

Kevin_1000 said...

Joseph,

I take it that's mild aspergers then.

You are misguided because you do not see severe or profound autism as a disability. Why shouldn't we help our severe or profoundly autistic kids?

"Not all 'autistics' are geniuses and authors of books."

Everyone bandies the word autism around as if it is mildly incapacitating and all autistics are leading independent lives. (does everthing I say have to be quoted from a book)That's what I mean by 'glamorous definition of autism'.

Where does it say:
"There's this taboo in autism which says that we're not supposed to say anything positive about autism, because there are negative aspects to it."
The taboo is in your head.

Your purpose! If you don't know that then you shouldn't be posting.

"And I am against this how?"

I'll take that as a no. Which means you would be empathetic towards anyone seeking to improve their childs quality of life with proven treatments. Why are you here?

I hope you son's 'autism' is not disabling and he can lead an independent life.

There has been little research done in identifying the causes of autism, even in the face of the rising occurences. I find that a little worrying.

There is no doubt that the cause is a genetic predisposition and an enviromental trigger. The triggers are most likely to be man-made and hence uncovering them will be costly for someone.

Anyway, what harm is there in trying to help your child. If the proven treatment works then great. If not, then nothing has been lost.

Fore Sam said...

Kevin;
I don't think Joseph even has a son. I think he just used that as part of his blog alias to make himself seem more normal. He's never mentioned a wife and barely mentions the kid unless it suits his purpose in an argument.
Joe;
Yup, Kev invited me to his blog to discuss a few things and then closed the comments prematurely. He doesn't have the guts to pop up out of his hole on the EOHarm list and then he hides whenever he's losing. A pathetic excuse for a man. He calls his daughter a monkey and won't give her the medical help she needs to overcome her disability.
While we're at it, what do you think of Estee Klar who ignores the case of autistic kids bitibg themselves until they draw blood? What kind of fantasyland does she come from?

Joseph said...

You are misguided because you do not see severe or profound autism as a disability.

Oh really? You surely are familiar with my views. BTW, feel free to set me straight in any of my posts and show how misguided I am.

Why shouldn't we help our severe or profoundly autistic kids?

I'm sorry. I must have missed the part where I or anyone else said that.

Everyone bandies the word autism around as if it is mildly incapacitating and all autistics are leading independent lives.

We must live in parallel universes. I see autism routinely referred to as a devastation, worse than cancer and 9/11 combined, a good reason to kill autistics, mad child disease, a scourge, a resource drain, something such that you'd be better dead if you have it, and so on.

Where does it say:
"There's this taboo in autism which says that we're not supposed to say anything positive about autism, because there are negative aspects to it." The taboo is in your head.


Are you telling me that it's OK with you to say positive things about autism? Or are you saying that you're basically the only one who opposes it?

Which means you would be empathetic towards anyone seeking to improve their childs quality of life with proven treatments. Why are you here?

It would be difficult to be against proven, safe treatments of nearly anything. (Well, that's debatable). Either way, can you name one proven autism treatment?

I hope you son's 'autism' is not disabling and he can lead an independent life.

What if it is disabling for life? What if he had Down's syndrome for example? What would you think about that?

There has been little research done in identifying the causes of autism, even in the face of the rising occurences. I find that a little worrying.

What I find a little worrying is all the inconsequential research that is done to satisfy those who propose very unlikely hypotheses. Those resources could be used in more helpful ways. See Joel's take on that.

There is no doubt that the cause is a genetic predisposition and an enviromental trigger. The triggers are most likely to be man-made and hence uncovering them will be costly for someone.

If you believe in the idea of an epidemic, then I can see why you'd believe there's a simple (likely post-natal) trigger that's somebody's fault. Maybe you hope that's the case, like John here, who is pretty bummed out that vaccine injury compensation is proving elusive.

You must also hope that the new trigger is reversible in some way.

Again, you're invited to scrutinize my recent post on the autism epidemic, have others scrutinize it, and post a rebuttal.

Anyway, what harm is there in trying to help your child.

Obviously none. I would in fact urge all parents to help their children. It's a shame when parents do nothing to help their children.

If the proven treatment works then great. If not, then nothing has been lost.

Nothing is lost, provided the treatment is not only proven effective, but also proven safe.

Jonsmum said...

natalia
The "problems with self biting" are much more complex than what you have read.
The frustration is not with their carers, but with the fact that more often than not, due to the nature of autism, they cannot be taught rather than "have not been taught". Sadly, many autistic children cannot tolerate the demands of the direct interaction needed in order to be taught a method of communication, and are caught in a 'catch 22 situation'.

The problem of self harm is very
serious and difficult to control.
Many "outside problems" cannot be changed and are unavoidable.
Self biting and other forms of self harm can be caused by an overwhelming compulsion, or can be more obvious in their cause, such as a child simply observing and echoeing the behaviour of another child at their special needs school or nursery.

Joseph said...

As I indicated elsewhere, autistics have discussed SIB publicly. Isn't it a remarkable concept to see what autistics think about SIB instead of guessing? See here.

Fore Sam said...

Joe;
I looked at a few posts there. It's obvious they don't know how to help themselves.
Since the last biting episode, it dawned on me that I haven't been giving Sam as much vitamin C as usual. After a week of short episodes of biting and one long one, no bites with increased C for 3 days.
I think this is why Estee Klar refuses to address the issue with the lame excuse that I was rude to an anonymous jerk. She only pretends to address symptoms and just isn't knowledgeable enough to actually help any autistics improve their condition. She should join the Autism-Mercury list where she can learn the basics about autism. People like her who don't know anything about a subject really should not demonstrate their ignorance by writing publicly about it.

Joseph said...

How's the chelation comining, John? Apparently not very well, what a surprise. Good idea there John - give the child vitamin C to treat SIB. Why didn't other parents think of that?

Fore Sam said...

Joe;
The chelation is going well. Sam continues to show improvement. His golf swing is improving and he said a couple of new words lately.
Other parents have thought of adding vitamin C to help with self injuring. They are the ones who gained knowledge from Andy Cutler on the Autism-Mercury list. MS Klar is trapped in the past and has not learned that autism is a chemical problem that can not be ameliorated with any amount of psychological intervention.
Is there anything else you would like to learn about autism today, Joseph?

Jonsmum said...

Fore sam,

It's all very weird!

Nathzn said...

""Not all 'autistics' are geniuses and authors of books."

Everyone bandies the word autism around as if it is mildly incapacitating and all autistics are leading independent lives. (does everthing I say have to be quoted from a book)That's what I mean by 'glamorous definition of autism'."

No actually that's mostly how asperger's is treated, Autism is mostly treated as though it were the same as mental retardartion.

Where does it say:
"There's this taboo in autism which says that we're not supposed to say anything positive about autism, because there are negative aspects to it."
The taboo is in your head."

No it is true, anything positive is treated as either a splinter skill or evidence of 'recover'"



""And I am against this how?"

I'll take that as a no. Which means you would be empathetic towards anyone seeking to improve their childs quality of life with proven treatments. Why are you here?"

What proven treatments, the only one with resnable success is ABA and that depends on the therapist (most ABA doesn't work, but its a damnsight better then biomed)

"I hope you son's 'autism' is not disabling and he can lead an independent life."

Ah the giult trip attempt, how fresh.

"There has been little research done in identifying the causes of autism, even in the face of the rising occurences. I find that a little worrying."

There has been loads, but your worried because it says that the cause results in no cure (e.g. genes)

"There is no doubt that the cause is a genetic predisposition and an enviromental trigger. The triggers are most likely to be man-made and hence uncovering them will be costly for someone."

How can there be no doubt when you just said that more research is needed? What proof is there that it is man-made?

"Anyway, what harm is there in trying to help your child. If the proven treatment works then great. If not, then nothing has been lost."

The treatments are dangerous and mostly useless, your child's welfare could be 'lost' though you probably don't consider your child a real human.

Just trying to save Joesph the mind-numbingly boring task of taking your argument apart.

Kevin_1000 said...

Fore sam,

Yes, sounds like he had a refrigerator mum too, as he himself confesses that it has not been proven to be false yet.

Joseph, you are a poor ambassador for The Autism Assembly and a disgarce to 'autistics'.

Joseph said...

Yes, sounds like he had a refrigerator mum too, as he himself confesses that it has not been proven to be false yet.

Let me suggest that insulting my mother is not an appropriate way to reply to my arguments. I have not insulted your mother or you for that matter.

I invited you to argue any of my posts, but I was referring to useful/reasonable debate.

I'm guessing you're referring to my post titled "Mercury: This Generation's Refrigerator Mother". My views on disability rights have changed somewhat since then, but I still believe what I wrote there. Here's an excerpt:

http://autismnaturalvariation.blogspot.com/2006/03/mercury-this-generations-refrigerator.html
"I wonder, though, what the relative merit of the mercury theory vs. the refrigerator mother theory is. Neither of these theories have any solid scientific grounding, and neither has been conclusively shown to be false (though I'd disagree on that about mercury). Refrigerator mother fell out of favor when it was discovered that autism is very heritable. But then why did the mercury theory take its place, considering that both are environmentally-based theories?"

It is my understanding Refrigerator Mother was never proven and was phased out by genetics after the first twin studies came out. I'm just stating the historical facts. Maybe I don't know something you know. If you have a reference as to how it was disproven, I'd be interested in that. Refrigerator Mother is a theory at least as offensive to you as it is to me. But I won't state something has been disproven when I can't clearly show how it has been disproven. That would be intellectually dishonest. (I could argue why it's an unlikely theory, but no more effectively than I could argue that about any other post-natal environmental theory). On the other hand, I will tell you inequivocally that the vaccine thimerosal hypothesis has, in fact, been disproven.

Fore Sam said...

Kevin;
I think Joe thanks his parents for not knowing how to help him and letting him be himself. What else could they do since the cause wasn't known when he was a kid? If he was a kid today, they are probably decent people and would be chelating him. If they're still alive, I'll bet their ashamed of him now for publicly lying about the cause of autism and trying to make the drug companies look innocent.

Fore Sam said...

Jonsmum;
Yes, the neurodiverse are extremely weird.

Common Sense Needed said...

Joseph wrote:

"On the other hand, I will tell you inequivocally that the vaccine thimerosal hypothesis has, in fact, been disproven".

Joseph, this is great news. Can you please send me the links which prove "inequivocally" that there is no connection between vaccines/thimerosal/autism.

Thanks in advance. I must have missed that memo.

p.s. it's unequivocally

Kevin_1000 said...

Joseph,

"Oh really? You surely are familiar with my views. BTW, feel free to set me straight in any of my posts and show how misguided I am."

Obviously this is a view you don't want to disclose, any particular reason?

"I'm sorry. I must have missed the part where I or anyone else said that."

I said it!

"I see autism routinely referred to as a devastation, worse than cancer and 9/11 combined, a good reason to kill autistics, mad child disease, a scourge, a resource drain, something such that you'd be better dead if you have it, and so on."

And where would we see this routinely referred to. In your head, me thinks.

"Are you telling me that it's OK with you to say positive things about autism? Or are you saying that you're basically the only one who opposes it?"

I thought it was obvious. But I will elaborate. That taboo doesn't exist.

"It would be difficult to be against proven, safe treatments of nearly anything. (Well, that's debatable). Either way, can you name one proven autism treatment?"

Sounds like your not convinced (looks like we would have to live in a world of disease if you had your way). You seem very well balanced: a chip on both shoulders.


"What if it is disabling for life? What if he had Down's syndrome for example? What would you think about that?"

Why don't you tell me. He is your son

Severe or profound autism is far more incapacitating than Down's syndrome.


"What I find a little worrying is all the inconsequential research that is done to satisfy those who propose very unlikely hypotheses. Those resources could be used in more helpful ways. See Joel's take on that."

And who decides what is inconsequential. A certain infamous dictator springs to mind.

"If you believe in the idea of an epidemic, then I can see why you'd believe there's a simple (likely post-natal) trigger that's somebody's fault. Maybe you hope that's the case, like John here, who is pretty bummed out that vaccine injury compensation is proving elusive."

You don't need an epidemic to have a simple trigger. Johns vaccine injury compenstion is none of my business or yours

"Obviously none. I would in fact urge all parents to help their children. It's a shame when parents do nothing to help their children."

I agree. Now we're getting somewhere.

"Nothing is lost, provided the treatment is not only proven effective, but also proven safe."

This is where you are wrong my friend. The effectiveness may vary with all treatments, and quite often does. Safety is paramount. The test John refers to has already been proven safe in removing lead poisoning from children. It just so happens it complexes with other heavy metals such as mercury.

Looks like your only gripe with DMSA (an FDA appoved drug)is effectiveness. Well done, your firt steps to becoming a person that can accept parents who want to use safe treatments to help their 'autistic' children.

The fact that you believe parents are wasting there time or money is immaterial. The fact that you believe the treatment is ineffective is immaterial.

THEY ARE NOT YOUR KIDS.

I think we're done here.

Kevin_1000 said...

Joseph,

Oooh touchy.

"Let me suggest that insulting my mother......."

Don't be a jackass. You would have to lock a NT kid in a cupboard for years before they would present anywhere near a severe or profoundly autistic child.
Please don't test this hypothesis.

Common Sense Needed said...

Joseph wrote:

"You should frequent Kev's blog and offer up your opinions. That's the autism blog with most traffic on the web".

Joe, have you seen what a worthless site Kev's blog is when there is no one who posts with any common sense?

Joseph said...

Hi Sue. It is quiet when people with "common (non)sense" are not trolling. But that's fine.

Kevin_1000 said...

Nat,

Given the length of time autism has been around, don't you think they would have found the gene, if it was solely a genetic condition.

They couldn't find the gene for shyness. You know why: it was heading behind another one.

Common Sense Needed said...

Joseph wrote:

"Hi Sue. It is quiet when people with "common (non)sense" are not trolling. But that's fine".

You can have your "quiet" then. I just trolled over there for a glimpse. They are talking about planned parenthood, aliens, CIA, tinfoil hats, illuminati, etc... Is that what you are interested in? Go for it. Kev's post about the little baby in House was pretty funny though. That little kid had the sniffles. Notice he/she did not have autism, food allergies, type 1 diabetes, asthma, etc. I wonder why?

Kevin_1000 said...

John,

I can't see their point. It's so callous to advocate against something that may help your child, and has been proven safe by the Federal Drugs Association. Whether they believe it is effective or not is immaterial.

Joseph said...

You can have your "quiet" then. I just trolled over there for a glimpse. They are talking about planned parenthood, aliens, CIA, tinfoil hats, illuminati, etc... Is that what you are interested in? Go for it.

No. Clearly Kev and others perform a good public service documenting how the most prominent members of the mercury militia self-destruct in the most ridiculous ways. Nothing wrong with that.

Kev's post about the little baby in House was pretty funny though. That little kid had the sniffles. Notice he/she did not have autism, food allergies, type 1 diabetes, asthma, etc. I wonder why?

WTF? Did you really just ask that?

BTW John, it has been suggested that Kevin_1000, johnsmum and perhaps even Sue here were made up by you to make it look as if there are others like you. While I wouldn't put it past you, it doesn't look plausible. But it is interesting that for the first time in many months you have others arguing your side.

Common Sense Needed said...

Joseph wrote:

"No. Clearly Kev and others perform a good public service documenting how the most prominent members of the mercury militia self-destruct in the most ridiculous ways. Nothing wrong with that".

Where's the self-destruction? Spell it out.

"WTF? Did you really just ask that"?

Yes, I did... WTF, right back at you.

"BTW John, it has been suggested that Kevin_1000, johnsmum and perhaps even Sue here were made up by you to make it look as if there are others like you. While I wouldn't put it past you, it doesn't look plausible".

Nice tinfoil hat, Joseph. It looks good on you.

Joseph said...

Joseph, this is great news. Can you please send me the links which prove "inequivocally" that there is no connection between vaccines/thimerosal/autism.

Ok Sue. Please pay attention. This is important.

First, what is the vaccine-thimerosal hypothesis of autism? It says that in the early 1990s, the thimerosal dose per child went from about 120 micrograms to around 280 micrograms (rough figures) causing the "autism epidemic" of the 1990s. This is the hypothesis I will disprove.

The thimerosal dose per child dropped from about 280 micrograms to at most 25 micrograms per child at the end of the 1990s and beginnig of this decade - if you assume every child is given the Flu vaccine.

If an increase in the dose from 120 to 280 micrograms of thimerosal in the early 1900s caused the autism epidemic of 90s, a drop from 280 to 25 micrograms at the end of the 1990s should have reversed the epidemic by 2006.

At this point I can just show a graph of the 3-5 cohort caseload in California for the last 16 quarters: graph.

Given these facts, which are verifiable, and not subject to excuses such as "conflicts of interest" or any difficulties in interpretation, it is thus proven that the thimerosal hypothesis of autism, as presented, is false.

Kevin_1000 said...

Well said. Nice to hear from some common sense.

Joseph said...

Given the length of time autism has been around, don't you think they would have found the gene, if it was solely a genetic condition.

Ah, if it were that simple. Another way to look at it is that it's good it isn't that simple. Obviously, several genetic causes for the autism phenotype have been identified, e.g. Fragile-X, tuberous sclerosis, Rett's. There are many others which are seldom tested for. Have you ever heard of a PTEN mutation for example?

It's very difficult to find genes for a phenotype when it might be multiple genes that together result in the phenotype, and when the gene not always results in the phenotype. For example, not all people with Fragile-X or Rett's are autistic.

Google "autism genome scan" if you want to find out about current knowledge on the subject.

Nathzn said...

Nat,

Given the length of time autism has been around, don't you think they would have found the gene, if it was solely a genetic condition.

They couldn't find the gene for shyness. You know why: it was heading behind another one

They haven't found the gene for intellect either.

Yet that's been around awhile.

what makes you think only one gene is Responsible?

I never said it was SOLELY genetic, if want my few on that you can read my blog (click on my name).

Common Sense Needed said...

Joseph wrote:

"Given these facts, which are verifiable, and not subject to excuses such as "conflicts of interest" or any difficulties in interpretation, it is thus proven that the thimerosal hypothesis of autism, as presented, is false".

Your analysis PROVES nothing, Joseph. Hence the reason why I was looking for some REAL information from you not some amateur analysis. For example, your statement that:

"The thimerosal dose per child dropped from about 280 micrograms to at most 25 micrograms per child at the end of the 1990s and beginnig of this decade - if you assume every child is given the Flu vaccine".

That is stretching the truth just a bit and it is one of the reasons that I can't believe anything that you say. Sorry. You lose credibility when you lie like that.

I want REAL proof, Joe. You can give your analysis anytime but to be so "inequivocal" about it is laughable.

p.s. I believe it's more than just the thimerosal... we've got the aluminum, the cyanide, the live virus vaccines, etc... NICE

Nathzn said...

"You can have your "quiet" then. I just trolled over there for a glimpse. They are talking about planned parenthood, aliens, CIA, tinfoil hats, illuminati, etc... Is that what you are interested in? Go for it. Kev's post about the little baby in House was pretty funny though. That little kid had the sniffles. Notice he/she did not have autism, food allergies, type 1 diabetes, asthma, etc. I wonder why?"



Maybe because it was a TV programme

And how do you now she didn't have those from a >5 min clip?

Nathzn said...

"p.s. I believe it's more than just the thimerosal... we've got the aluminum, the cyanide, the live virus vaccines, etc... NICE"

Kev was right, they have moved away from just mercury...

Fore Sam said...

Kevin;
They all know DMSA works and is safe. Their science advisor, Orac, told them so. Their little charade of blaming chelation for the deaths of two kids instead of blaming it on someone mistakenly grabbing the wrong kind of EDTA just proves that their prime objective is to defend the drug companies (or that they're too stupid for words). It's the same with Joseph's "spinning" the statistics. He throws extraneous junk into the equation to try to make people believe no epidemic exists. But, he can't show us any 76 year olds to prove there was autism before Eli Lilly started poisoning people with thimerosal in 1931. He also ignores the fact that Pharma kept distributing vaccines with the full load of mercury long after 1999 when it was supposedly taken out.

Joseph said...

That is stretching the truth just a bit and it is one of the reasons that I can't believe anything that you say. Sorry. You lose credibility when you lie like that.

Ok, tell me the real numbers of thimerosal dose per child and I'll redo the analysis. Or do you prefer to pass on that?

Joseph said...

p.s. I believe it's more than just the thimerosal... we've got the aluminum, the cyanide, the live virus vaccines, etc... NICE

One at a time, Sue.

Nathzn said...

Joesph, I'm beginning to think that these peolpe are just fake I.D.'s as there Blog links are dead ends.

Bu they seem to be a whole lot more reasoned than John,

Maybe He's decisided to use those his reasnable 'voice' and use 'fore sam' to yell with

Kevin_1000 said...

Dr Joseph,

"Ah, if it were that simple. Another way to look at it is that it's good it isn't that simple."

That's what I'm saying. It isn't simple otherwise they would have found it by now.
The fact that it isn't simple means it's harder to find. How is that good?

What is your mother tongue: Swahili.

Phenotype by definition means:

The observable physical or biochemical characteristics of an organism, as determined by both genetic makeup and environmental influences.


I'm talking about autism in individuals with a full set of chromosomes.

No-one with Fagile x or Retts is autistic. They are conditions which have autistic traits or as you like to say phenotypes.

PTEN would be a gene defect and fall into the same catagory as Rhetts etc.
The link between PTEN and ASD remains unclear.
If it were this alone, I think they would have cracked it by now.

You are basically agreeing with me but seem quite pleased that's it's genetically complicated.

Joseph said...

Re: DMSA. It seems fairly safe, but see this for example. It's efficacy in cases of low-level chronic heavy metal exposure is apparently nil. See my summary.

Common Sense Needed said...

Nathzn wrote:

"Maybe because it was a TV programme

And how do you now she didn't have those from a >5 min clip"?

Exactly. It was a tv show... why was Kev posting about it? I KNOW that the baby didn't have any of those things because he/she wasn't vaccinated :)

Common Sense Needed said...

Nathzn wrote:

"Kev was right, they have moved away from just mercury..."

That Kev, Orac and Joseph they are such smarty pants. The only problem with that is ... I've been saying that from day 1. Go back and look. You'll find it.

Joseph said...

No-one with Fagile x or Retts is autistic. They are conditions which have autistic traits or as you like to say phenotypes.

Autism is phenotype. That's how it's defined. As an example, being "short" is a phenotype. There are genes that cause short stature, such as a SHOX mutation. So you're saying that someone with a SHOX mutation is not really short, they just have the mutation.

You should meet Kassiane, the RettDevil.

Common Sense Needed said...

Joseph wrote:

"Ok, tell me the real numbers of thimerosal dose per child and I'll redo the analysis. Or do you prefer to pass on that"?


I will pass on that, Joe. The fact that you will just make stuff up to fit your argument shows me that you really don't care one way or the other.

Common Sense Needed said...

Nathzn wrote:

"Joesph, I'm beginning to think that these peolpe are just fake I.D.'s as there Blog links are dead ends".

More tinfoil needed on that hat.

Kevin_1000 said...

Nat,

I am a parent with a severely autistic son here to express my opions. I don't have my own blog site and have only posted on this site so far. I can assure you I'm not a fake ID.

Joseph said...

The fact that you will just make stuff up to fit your argument shows me that you really don't care one way or the other.

You're going to have to explain what exactly I made up. I picked the thimerosal dose per child numbers from a Geier & Geier paper, FYI. They might be wrong within a factor of 2, but the argument is the same either way.

Kevin_1000 said...

John,

As a chemist, I know DMSA is safe and effective in removing heavy metals such as lead and mercurcy. I'm not 100% certain that it will 'cure' my son. But it is fact that mercury is a poison that produces autistic symptoms when given in levels that far exceed the FDA recommendations. When babies are given vaccines at the age of 4 months with 60 times the recommended safety levels, common sense tells me chelation of mercury will certainly improve my sons condition.

Fore Sam said...

Joe;
Poor analogy with Kassiane. Height has no effect on functioning normally. People like Kassianne have brains that don't work right and can't be cured. People with mercury poisoning misdiagnosed as autism can be cured by removing the mercury. Ergo, similar symptoms but different conditions.
Kassiane isn't worth meeting. She's just a self-pitying arrogant bitch.

Kevin_1000 said...

Joseph,

I'll say it again.

Phenotype by definition means:

The observable physical or biochemical characteristics of an organism, as determined by both genetic makeup and environmental influences.

The genetic makeup of someone autistic is different to someone with Rhetts. Therefore they can't be the same.

"Autism is phenotype"
Doesn't really make much sense.

Autism has phenotypes which are determined by GENETIC MAKEUP some of which are similar to other genetic conditions. They can't be 100% the same.

What you are inferring is that someone short and a midget have the same phenotype. Doesn't quite add up. They are not genetically the same, therefore according to said definition cannot be the same phenotypes.

I've heard a lot of crap about this phenotype carry on. I hope that puts it into perspective for you.

Kevin_1000 said...

John,

Two definitions are always better than one.

Fore Sam said...

Kevin;
Are you using ALA? My son's much improved, even acting like a brat intentionally now, sort of like a two or three yaer old who's testing their parents. He's 9. For him, it's great progress and a joy to see rather than just spinning around and not even acknowledging I'm there.
How old's your son?

Common Sense Needed said...

Joseph wrote:

"You're going to have to explain what exactly I made up".

Perhaps stretched the truth would be a better phrase to describe what you did. Let's look at it. You wrote:

"a drop from 280 to 25 micrograms at the end of the 1990s should have reversed the epidemic by 2006".

Show me some proof that children were only exposed to 25 micrograms at the end of the 1990's. That doesn't hold up. Way too many factors to look at here. Another stretch of the truth is here:

"On the other hand, I will tell you inequivocally that the vaccine thimerosal hypothesis has, in fact, been disproven".

You, Joseph, did not or cannot disprove anything in this discussion. As smart as you may be or as smart as you think you are... you don't have that ability. You just don't.

Fore Sam said...

Sue;
Joe may be the most intelligent of the ND's but that's like saying Curly was the smartest of the 3 Stooges.

Joseph said...

That definition of phenotype is confusing you, Kevin. A full list of definitions can be found here. In general, a phenotype is understood to mean a set of observable characteristics of an organism. Again, good examples are "short stature" or "blue eyes". These can result from gene/environment interactions, but that doesn't mean one pheonotype must result from exactly one gene + one environmental trigger.

Autism fits the definition of a phenotype, whereas Rett syndrome fits the definition of a genotype. Clearly, someone with Rett's can be autistic phenotypically (as well as be short and have blue eyes).

In addition to gene and environment there's also something called random variation.

Joseph said...

Sue, to suggest that the thimerosal dose per child might have been higher than, say, 100 micrograms a few years after 1999 is so far fetched that "grasping at straws" doesn't even begin to describe it.

Seriously Sue, why do you hang on to thimerosal? You're not like John here. You must know that one debate is over. We all know you're anti-vax -- the logical step for you would be to forget all about thimerosal and move to aluminum or something. For those who still care about the autism-mercury connection, the logical step would be to look for environmental sources (some already have, e.g. Windham et al and Palmer et al).

Kev said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Kev said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Camille said...

kev 1000, writes exactly like a sock puppet. And because he plays by John's rules will come out of the sock puppet closet and tell us his real name.... not. He reminds me of "Ashleigh Anderson," who was invented by Brad in 2005. She had a whole back story, she lived in Las Vegas and had 2 kids and a husband. Didn't believe in chelation, but just wanted to know about thimerosal.... Kevin 1000 is obviously not a "chemist." Pretty obvious, pretty lame attempt to pull of the British thing, too.

I'm so thrilled to know that there's going to be another huge faux AWARES conference! This year Paul Ashwood of UCD will is signed up! Look John, you can email these presenters and expose the whole fakery of it! Paul Ashwood will say, "What conference?" as will all the others... you'll be a hero. You can tell Autism Cymru what Frank has been up to with their organization's name.

Fore Sam said...

Camille;
I haven't been able to contact the aliens who stole your brain, dear. Sorry, you'll have to wait a while longer for it.

Fore Sam said...

Joe;
It seems you're the one clutching at straws. You're well aware that there were TCV's that didn't expire until 2003 that were not recalled after the 1999 suggestion by the CDC. You're also aware that random testing has been done that found TCV's after that when the package inserts didn'tmention thimerosal. You're not very honest. Joe.

Kev said...

But...but...John - I thought you didn't believe in deleting comments?

How come you've deleted all mine?

is it because I was rude? Or was it because you couldn't answer the questions?

Feel free to delete this one too John - but you and I both know what the answer is son ;o)

Nathzn said...

"More tinfoil needed on that hat."

I went to the tinfoil shop but the manager said a bunch a people already took it all, they were muttering about government and big pharma all out to get them and their kids.

Werid h'uh?

Kevin_1000 said...

Camille,

You are a sock puppet!

I don't give a rats what you believe.

Maybe we have the same views amd that's why we sound the same.

You remind me of a cynical psychopath.

Nathzn said...

The mask is craking and your sounding more like JBJr all the time

Kevin_1000 said...

John,

That's great news about your son.

No, my son is not taking ALA now, but myself and my wife have done the research and found that:-
Given that mercury is a proven poison, producing autistic symptoms in adults.
Giving infants vaccines, containing mercury far exceeding FDA safety levels is medical negligence which should be outlawed.

My background in analytical chemistry plus common sense tells me that DMSA to remove mercury from the blood stream and ALA to remove it from sites in the brain, makes the decision not to treat our son tantamout to abuse.

We are on our way to the clinic.

Kevin_1000 said...

Joseph,

From your link:

"It is not known whether treating children with blood lead levels < 45 microg/dL (2.2 microM) is beneficial and can be done with acceptable safety. We conducted a 780-child, placebo-controlled, randomized trial of up to three courses of succimer in children with blood lead levels of 20-44 microg/dL (1.0-2.1 microM)."

This hypothesis is flawed/biased odd as the person conducting the study does not believe it is safe. Why did he do it? Is he a child abuser!
I would question the motives of this study.

The FDA is the GOD of drugs. They are there to protect the people who take them. Safety is foremost in their mission statement. DMSA is an approved FDA drug.

Kevin_1000 said...

John,

Sorry. Forgot to mention my son is 4.

Kevin_1000 said...

Nat,

"The mask...blah blah"

And your point is?

Fore Sam said...

Kevin Leech;
I don't usually delete comments except for your anonymous friends who use four letter words. I didn't even read what you said this morning. I'm just returning the favor of you deleting my comments. Your just too much of a horse's ass to bother with.

Fore Sam said...

Kevin 1000;
You'll probably have better luck than me since your son's so young. I've been at it for 48 rounds. Sam seems to be making quicker progress lately. I stopped using DMSA and just give him the ALA now.
Too bad all of these ND wackos have to keep giving parents bad information. I wish one of them would tell me the significance of tin foil hats. It must be an inside joke or something.
I think I looked at Joseph's study some time back. If it's the same one, it didn't say how long the kids were chelated, what doses they used or how often they gave them. Sounds like an exercise in nonsense to me.

Kevin_1000 said...

Joseph,

"Rett's can be autistic phenotypically"

Yes, which means they have autistic traits. It does not mean they are autistic.

phenotype is just another word for a physical characteristic trait.

My original statement was correct:

No-one with Fagile x or Retts is autistic. They are conditions which have autistic traits or as you like to say phenotypes.

If you can't agree with me on this point, which you have already stated yourself. Your posts are meaningless, as it proves your willing to resort to lying/being irrational, so as not to conceed anything.

Can you agree on this?

Fore Sam said...

Nat;
Lots of normal, decent parents have learned how to help their kids and they all sound like regular people, just like you bunch of wackos all sound alike. I haven't met one of you I'd like to sit down and have a beer with.

Joseph said...

DMSA is an approved FDA drug.

You mean the Federal Drugs Association, Mr. chemist?

Did they say it's so safe you can give it to any child for any reason?

BTW, autism and mercury poisoning are not alike. For one, mercury posioning is often deadly. Minamata disease in Japan had a mortality rate around 30%.

Bernard is debunked in a Pediatrics paper found here.

Kevin_1000 said...

John,

I can't see there motive for giving parents bad information, it's sick. They have the choice as they are adults. But to spout propaganda that the drug is not safe to use when it is FDA approved, strikes me as inhuman.

I think Joseph performed the study by the look of it.

Fore Sam said...

Kevin;
Yup, it's hard to believe any parent could be that rotten to lie to other parents trying to help their kids. I'm pretty sure Joe's not really a parent though. What drives people like him and Seidel to prevent parents from helping their kids? Since they don't seem to be morons, I have to guess that they are being paid by someone to blog all day against the fact that mercury caused the autism epidemic.

Joseph said...

Yes, which means they have autistic traits. It does not mean they are autistic.

I'm not getting through it seems. The way to be autistic is by meeting the criteria for autism. There is no other requirement. (The DSM-IV's artificial restriction in item C notwithstanding). There's nothing that says: "To be autistic, you must not have any rare alleles".

You're basically redefining the autism phenotype to exclude known genetic causes. Why do you want to do that?

My original statement was correct: No-one with Fagile x or Retts is autistic.

This is clearly wrong, same as "no one with a SHOX mutation is short." Do you at least accept that "short stature" is a phenotype with possibly innumerable genetic+environmental causes?

And I'm offended on behalf of Kassiane, assuming that's ok with her.

Common Sense Needed said...

"Seriously Sue, why do you hang on to thimerosal? You're not like John here. You must know that one debate is over. We all know you're anti-vax -- the logical step for you would be to forget all about thimerosal and move to aluminum or something".

Apparently, to you Joseph, the debate is over. You use such words as the debate is "inequivocally" over. You need to get your head out of the clouds and come back to reality. So, as far as you are concerned, I should probably be running out to get my kids thimerosal containing flu vaccinations in the fall, right?

Common Sense Needed said...

Nathzn wrote:

"I went to the tinfoil shop but the manager said a bunch a people already took it all, they were muttering about government and big pharma all out to get them and their kids.

Werid h'uh"?

Yes, very "werid". Here's a hint: try the local grocery store for tin foil.

Common Sense Needed said...

Joseph wrote:

"Bernard is debunked in a Pediatrics paper found here".

That clearly states on it that this "paper" is commentary. Does that mean anyone can write to Pediatrics to comment and suddenly anything that came before it is debunked. Cool. Way cool.

Fore Sam said...

Joe;
Kassiane is offensive enough all by herself. She doesn't need your help.

Kevin_1000 said...

Joseph,

FDA is the acronym, tit.

So, you neither agree or disagree. Politicians use a similar tact.

I can't belive you won't admit to agree to agree on something we both agree on. How mad is that!
It even sounds mad.

We will be unable to continue a rational discussion unless we can get past this basic point:

My original statement was correct:

No-one with Fagile x or Retts is autistic. They are conditions which have autistic traits or as you like to say phenotypes.

If you can't agree with me on this point, which you have already stated yourself. Your posts are meaningless, as it proves your willing to resort to lying/being irrational, so as not to concede anything.

Can you agree on this?

Nathzn said...

Yes, very "werid". Here's a hint: try the local grocery store for tin foil.

I tried there as well... they had the same story.

Kevin_1000 sorry if you are a real person but you Are acting exactly as though you are a fake ID providing John everything he needed (background in chemistry, someone to thank him for his advice etc.)

Joseph said...

My original statement was correct: No-one with Fagile x or Retts is autistic. They are conditions which have autistic traits or as you like to say phenotypes.

Ok, believe the ridiculous if you will. I've tried to explain why the above is erroneous with an analogy, which you have chosen to ignore.

Kevin_1000 said...

John,

I hope it will be a success.
It's down to people like you that have spoke up against these neurodiverse nitwits, who are more bothered about the ins and outs of the most ridiculous irrelevant fine detail(everyone who is short is a dwarf according to joseph, as they share a phenotype, what a waste of a good pair of shoes) than finding a cure for autism.

Kevin_1000 said...

Nat,

Don't be utterly ridiculous. Do you think John is the only person in the world who supports treatment for autistic children?

Your wealth of ignorance astounds me.

Nathzn said...

As does yours sire...

Joseph said...

everyone who is short is a dwarf according to joseph

right... I'm the one who lies around here. Everyone can see that, right?

Kevin_1000 said...

Joseph,

Next you will be telling me people who are short(full set of chromosomes) are dwarfs, as they share a phenotype.

Do you realise how insulting to dwarfs that is?

You are an empty suit.

Kevin_1000 said...

Nat,

Take a look out the window. This ain't Camelot.

Kevin_1000 said...

John & Sue,

Bye for now. It's late over here.

Fore Sam said...

Kevin;
Besides the children who are abused by not receiving treatment, the leaders of neurodiversity have conned a bunch of adults who don't know which way is up into believing their crap. Maybe it will dawn on some of them that they are being fed a pile of crap by people who are using them to help promote their deranged agenda.
Hey, someone has to speak out against this nonsense. They're too vocal to ignore. It's too bad more people than the handful of us who expose their crap for what it is don't have the time to flood their blogs with common sense to show them up for the fools that they are. I was trying to take a break from this idiocy but I can't help picturing kids suffering whose parents listen to them and it pisses me off.

Common Sense Needed said...

John,

It seems as if you may have just catapulted yourself into the top spot for ND blog readership. Congrats. We seem to have Joseph, Camille and even the former leader of the pack, Kev. All we need now is a good Sanity Pending rant, a Clone misrepresenation and a quick hello from the Neurodiverse King, Dave Seidel.

The next time you wonder if anyone reads your blog... keep in mind they all do :)

p.s. Camille, are you interested in hearing about the amazing lack of common sense that some of your blog readers possess. I am willing to share a personal e-mail that I received from one of them. Are you interested in it?

Joseph said...

I have to admit David and Nat were right. John did a better job than I gave him credit for, but still couldn't help letting some unadulterated JBJr. slip through. Let's see what we have learned from "Kevin_1000":

- Severe/profound autism is not something which should be celebrated (any sane person would agree with that)
- I think Estee and some of her friends should be force-fed acid.
- I am a sane and sensible individual who agrees with Mr Best's views.
- Severe or profound autism is far more incapacitating than Down's syndrome.
- Don't be a jackass. You would have to lock a NT kid in a cupboard for years before they would present anywhere near a severe or profoundly autistic child.
- Given the length of time autism has been around, don't you think they would have found the gene, if it was solely a genetic condition.
- has been proven safe by the Federal Drugs Association.
- What is your mother tongue: Swahili.
- No-one with Fagile x or Retts is autistic. They are conditions which have autistic traits or as you like to say phenotypes.
- As a chemist, I know DMSA is safe and effective in removing heavy metals such as lead and mercurcy.
- My background in analytical chemistry plus common sense tells me that DMSA to remove mercury from the blood stream and ALA to remove it from sites in the brain, makes the decision not to treat our son tantamout to abuse.
- I think Joseph performed the study by the look of it.
- Politicians use a similar tact.
- It's down to people like you that have spoke up against these neurodiverse nitwits.
- everyone who is short is a dwarf according to joseph

Common Sense Needed said...

Joseph wrote:

"I have to admit David and Nat were right. John did a better job than I gave him credit for, but still couldn't help letting some unadulterated JBJr. slip through. Let's see what we have learned from "Kevin_1000".

Your tinfoil is showing again, Joseph. It's too bad that you can't have Kev Leitch do his voo-doo magic to expose the true identity of Kevin_1000. I think at one time Camille was about 5 different people. She couldn't keep up with all her identities.

Joseph said...

It's too bad that you can't have Kev Leitch do his voo-doo magic to expose the true identity of Kevin_1000.

That's why I don't believe we'll be seeing Kevin_1000 as a regular contributor to the Autism Hub.

Fore Sam said...

Sue;
Thanks but I don't think Kathleen allows Dave to post here anymore.

Fore Sam said...

Joe;
There you go with your lists again. I'm going to have to revoke your junior detectives badge this time for assuming facts not in evidence.

Nathzn said...

"The next time you wonder if anyone reads your blog... keep in mind they all do :)"

Of course... we all need a good laugh every now and again.

"I'm going to have to revoke your junior detectives badge this time for assuming facts not in evidence."

He provided evidence i.e. the similarity of yours and Kevin-1000s behaviour.

I think it strange that Kevin_1000 chose that name rather just Kev, Kevin when he said that he had been on no other autism blogs.

I think John chose the name Kevin because of his slight obession with Kev. (He made a whole post about him for god's sakes)

John get some help, (real help not biomed mind you) this thing you have with ND is unhealthy.

Kevin-1000 if you are real post on Kevin Leitch's website and we'll ask him to do 'that voo-doo' with your ID.

Common Sense Needed said...

Have you looked at Kev's site today. I feel bad for him that he continues to use the death of autistic children to promote his madness. There is something quite sick about that. Kev couldn't give a rat's ass about Abukar Tariq Nadama. How sad.

Nathzn said...

You the child that never would have died if it had not been for the promotion of Chelation as a cure for autism.

Biomed advocates have alot to answer for...

Joseph said...

There you go with your lists again. I'm going to have to revoke your junior detectives badge this time for assuming facts not in evidence.

*yawn*

The mercury-autism worldview must be in a very sad state for you to have to make up fake supporters. This has to be the most pathetic thing I've seen you do yet.

Fore Sam said...

Nathan;
Your intellectually challenged mind is probably beyond help. Are you also diagnosed with MR? If not, chelation may help.
I have no obsessions with any of the ND's. I've done posts about several of them. Kevin is almost as dumb as you and I feel bad picking on him. But, letting him publicize his idiocy without opposition would not be right.
I don't conjure up sockpuppets. When I put the neurodiverse in their place, I'll take full credit for it myself, thank you.

Fore Sam said...

Joe;
As for fakery, why don't you tell us some more about your wife and kid? Is your wife good in bed? Is she also autistic? Did you pick her up in a bar or meet someplace else?

Common Sense Needed said...

Nathzn wrote:

"You the child that never would have died if it had not been for the promotion of Chelation as a cure for autism.

Biomed advocates have alot to answer for..."

Nathzn,
You and those like you have a lot to answer for. By supporting the use of thimerosal containing vaccinations and other such nonsense you have hurt and/or killed many children. Someday you will understand that.

Common Sense Needed said...

That child would not have died had the doctor not used an improper medication. It's pretty simple.

Fore Sam said...

Sue;
I just looked at his blog. A couple other loons also posted about Nadama today. Talk about living off the misfortune of others.
Kids dying from chelation errors were the best thing that could have happened to neurodiversity. They love to celebrate it. What a sadistic bunch of scumbags. If I were this kids father, I'd probably go looking for some of these twerps and beat the hell out of them.

Anonymous said...

"I don't conjure up sockpuppets."

Liar. I see you have two other personalities to join your obnoxious first three.

Obviously people beating you with rosary beads has had a pretty disastrous effect on you. You want to put Sam up for adoption? I'm sure that the Seidels would never treat him as abusively as you do.

Fore Sam said...

Anon;
Play all the childish games you want. Sam is progressing while unintelligent parents who listen to neurodiversity watch their children rot and stagnate.

Joseph said...

unintelligent parents who listen to neurodiversity watch their children rot and stagnate.

Please name these parents whose kids stagnate. I have yet to hear of a single one.

Common Sense Needed said...

John wrote:

"If I were this kids father, I'd probably go looking for some of these twerps and beat the hell out of them".

Being a peace loving and nonviolent person myself, I wouldn't go that far... however, I would be extremely offended if some ignorant people were using the death of my child for their own purposes. I can understand being upset about the death and/or blogging about the issues surrounding his death. To use the boy's death for your own purposes as Kev did and does shows Kev's lack of character, in my opinion. Keep in mind, this is the same man who blamed the parents of a boy who was killed by his childhood vaccinations.

Anonymous said...

"Sam is progressing while unintelligent parents who listen to neurodiversity watch their children rot and stagnate."

No, he's not!

I hear you keep getting asked for proof but always fail to prove it.

So, go on... prove it... put some evidence up.

Fore Sam said...

This is rich. Some jerk calls me a liar for reporting on my son's progress and is such a coward that they have to do it anonymously. Did your parents teach you to be such a coward?

Fore Sam said...

Joe;
I believe MS Diva's kid is in its' twenties and is still in diapers. That sounds like stagnation to me. Kevin's daughter can't talk which is failure to progress or stagnation.
Tell us about your kid, Joe. I notice your not answering my questions about your wife.

Kevin_1000 said...

Joseph,

Nice disjointed list. You must have real problems shopping.

- Plumbana
- Grapeplums
- Why is the fruit pretending to be John

What I've learned about you is that you are a paranoid, twisted, callous, self rituous, refrigerated peice of work.

I don't think I would be welcome on kev's site as we have opposing views and it sounds like he deletes the opposition. And by what I've heard here, from the sane people, he sounds like an absolute twat.

Joseph said...

Tell us about your kid, Joe. I notice your not answering my questions about your wife.

Yeah, it's really really surprising that I'm reluctant to tell you anything about my family.

Kevin_1000 said...

Nat,

"I think it strange that Kevin_1000 chose that name rather just Kev, Kevin when he said that he had been on no other autism blogs."

Like your name makes sense.
Your head is full of cold soup.

Fore Sam said...

Joe;
It sounds like you're ashamed of your wife. Is she an alcoholic or a crackhead or something?

Kevin_1000 said...

John,

His wife is probably like his refrigerator mum.

"http://autismnaturalvariation.blogspot.com/2006/03/mercury-this-generations-refrigerator.html"

Still can't believe you actually wrote that drivel.

Parents of autistic children will be mortified, as I was, when they read this article. It is also insulting autistics that loved their mum. You cold hearted shit.

Fore Sam said...

Kevin;
I heard from some hockey players that his wife was pretty hot.

Fore Sam said...

Has anyone else noticed the mind numbing drip of Estee Klar's faucet when leaving comments? I think, subconsciously, this is Estee's way of letting us know that she is torturing children for profit. Deep down, she must be having trouble with the lies she tells to parents.

Kevin_1000 said...

John,

Yes, it does get on my tits. Where's that puck gone!

Joseph said...

Enjoy talking to yourself there John?

Kevin_1000 said...

LOL - Have you just returned from the fruit shop.

Fore Sam said...

Joe;
Why don't you put some pictures of your wife and kid on your blog?

Kevin_1000 said...

Estee Klar - Hater of autistic parents.

"These adults are saying “autism is part of who I am.”"

Like you know what's going on in an autistic's head.
You silly bint.
You don't even know what's going on in your own head (apart from $$).
You're so far up your own arse you might disappear.

Kevin_1000 said...

Estee Klar - The great pretender

"The devastation a parent might feel in light of these ideas, that their child will “never” do something that was expected, can be crippling, and may even lead to hatred, some of which will be directed towards this project"

You arrogant, condescending, greedy bitch. How dare you insinuate parents hate their autistic children. Just because you feel that way, having worn the tee-shirt and all.
(classic projection me thinks).

Kevin_1000 said...

Estee Klar

"One seasoned teacher told me last night, “I became a good teacher when I realized that the content of what I was teaching wasn’t important, it was the child who was important.” Read that sentence carefully and find the profound wisdom in it."

Eh, that's every parent in the world you profound nugget. You have obviously found it very hard to come to terms with the child. This is because you are so wrapped up in you own self importance and carving an empire for youself.

Fore Sam said...

Kevin;
How come nobody is defending Estee? The ND's must agree with our assessment of her.

Jonsmum said...

Joseph;

"please name these parents whose kids stagnate. I have yet to hear of a single one".

John. Please feel free to name me as one of them.

Anonymous said...

"Fore Sam said...
Kevin;
How come nobody is defending Estee? The ND's must agree with our assessment of her."

I think you'll find that a number of people have, but you remove the posts. The 'number of comments' on this thread goes up by humongous steps and yet the actual number of comments visible remains practically static, except for when you talk to yourself, John.

Cyril Burt, Cyril Burt.

Hmm... messing about with the data and inventing people was his style. Did you ever study psychology, John? Just wondering where you got the idea from, that's all.

Nathzn said...

"Like your name makes sense.
Your head is full of cold soup."

Firstly I prefer hot soup, secondly it makes perfect sense to me and those who know my well.

Fore Sam said...

Anon;
If you and other cowards can't at least use a pseudonym, don't expect an answer.

Anonymous said...

John,

You have concocted at least five other names for yourself to go by so that you can pat yourself on the back on here (because even your GR friends are faiing to support your inanely-spouted gibberish).

And then you try to make *me* out to be a coward for being anonymous?

Not a very good show for a man with (allegedly) a university education and three academic degrees to his name!

You are a really pathetic person, Mr Best. But then, I suppose that your father beat out of you what might have turned out to be a more amenable chap, didn't he?

Still, even if you didn't consent to the assaults on your body, you *did* consent to be an idiot. That one's on you, John.

Joseph said...

John: You forgot to remove the semicolon in the greeting of jonsmum comment above. Also, that didn't make sense because the jonsmum character is not supposed to be "neurodiverse".

Fore Sam said...

Joe;
You once made a similar comment when you were using the name "Frank Klein" when I was posting on AutAdvo under the name of Demons Begone. Do you remember that Frank/Joe?

Nathzn said...

Oh here we go again (sigh)

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Common Sense Needed said...

I just found out the Nathzn is only 14. I'm feeling a bit bad but a few things make more sense now. Nathzn, not to be rude but perhaps this isn't the best place for you....

Common Sense Needed said...

I was trolling over on Kev's blog. He just got his ass reemed by some guy named Richard Lathe. Once again, Kev took someone's personal e-mails and broadcast them for all to see. This guy finally publicly took him to task for it. It was a pleasure to see. The fact is Kev cries when people like David Kirby or others won't answer his questions... do you see why? Just in case Kev attempts to delete his post under the premise of helping this guy our or whatever, I figured that I would post Mr. Lathe's comment here:


"Richard Lathe : 4 hours, 53 minutes ago

Kevin
By your postings, that I saw tonight, you break all the terms of our informal agreement that we share info and opinion without prejudice. Seriously, tell me, Kevin, the purpose of your breach. What do you hope to achieve?
You have sold honesty, fair-mindedness, and civility, down the road.

Comment?
R "


In a way, I almost feel sorry for Kev. I really don't think that he understands that people don't always appreciate their private e-mails being broadcast over the internet. He should know that.

Nathzn said...

have of these aliases posted on Kev's blog to prove their Id yet,

SUe M (if that is you) why don't you ever post a blog: you seem to have some strong opinions, the same goes for all other dead end IDs (Kevin_1000, Johnsmum etc.)

Common Sense Needed said...

Wow Nathzn and to think that you've actually had your own blog for a few weeks. Cool. When do you start back to school? Remind me to get parental controls on my computer when my children are old enough to use the computer by themselves. That's not a slam to you but 14 is too young to get involved in this stuff.

Nathzn said...

actually I'm older than that,

who set the age limit.

Atleast this way you can't discount my autism as an adult diagnoisis (that acording to some curbies doesn't count)

If you had a child(ren) then you'd now when school starts

Fore Sam said...

Nat;
How old are you? No more lies.

Common Sense Needed said...

Nathzn wrote:

"actually I'm older than that"

What, 15?

"who set the age limit".

No one. That's the problem with the internet. You never know how old people are, etc. when you are posting. Hence my comment about parental controls on my children's computer. It is necessary.

"Atleast this way you can't discount my autism as an adult diagnoisis (that acording to some curbies doesn't count)".

So, you were born when late 1980's- early 1990's? Cool...

"If you had a child(ren) then you'd now when school starts".

Well, my niece and nephew already started. My daughter starts next Thursday and my son starts September 11th. I was just curious about you, but really it's no big deal.

Anonymous said...

The one thing that seems to stand out in Klar's blog...Estee is very concerned with one person...Estee. By the time she stops daydreaming about her fantasy world of what she thinks about autism, she will have pissed away her son's time for access to appropriate therapy.

Anonymous said...

Estee Klar..........what a joke.

Anonymous said...

Fore Sam's Bankruptcy

Defendant: BEST, JOHN F JR
Case Number: 9611989
Filing Type: CHAPTER 7 FILED
Entity Type: INDIVIDUAL RECORD
Filing Date: 19960719
Address: 15 FRIENDSHIP DR
City: SALEM
State: NH
Zip: 03079
Schedule 341 Date: 19960823
Attorney: RICHARD D GAUDREAU
Attorney Phone: 6038934300
Attorney Address: 395 MAIN ST UNIT 9
Attorney City: SALEM
Attorney State: NH
Attorney Zip: 03079
Assets: 000000000
Court Code: NH001
Court Name: MANCHESTER
Judge Initials: MWV
Unlawful Detainer: N

Satan said...

I am waiting for you in my home, John Best Junior.