Monday, March 13, 2006

Knuckleheads of Neurodiversity Attack the Geiers

Since the Geier's gave us more proof that mercury is the cause of the autism epidemic, Neurodiverse knuckleheads have written a bunch of cockamamie junk trying to refute their findings. The curious thread running through all of their nonsense is that they attack the publication. They attack facts irrelevant to the paper, including the fact that the Geier's have acted as expert witnesses. I suppose these lunatics think that some wack job like Autism Diva would be a more appropriate expert witness. She could show up the Geiers easily with her alien abduction theory.
Neurodiversity could also throw Prometheus up as an expert. This guy thinks he is a master of statistical analysis yet, when pressed to prove it, balks at the relatively simple task of analyzing a horse race. Anyone who is a true statistical wizard should be able to figure out the small bit of data in the Daily Racing Form as opposed to working with thousands of pieces of evidence contained in VAERS. This alleged expert scientist spends most of his blogging time trying to refute the connection of mercury to autism and claims he only does this to prevent children from being harmed by "quack" treatments. At the same time he is "protecting" children, he advocates shooting more mercury into them. That's some scientist. Support shooting up babies with known poisons and then rant and rave against those who try to remove that poison. Of course, to try to cover his fallacious arguments, Prometheus recently took a refresher course in reasoning and argument so he could write about it and help some less practiced lunatics hone their debating skills. Now, when one decides to question his idiocy of denying the mercury connection, one must put up with freshman style argument refutation which employs citing every known argument fallacy while evading the relevant questions. Prometheus and his lunatic followers can seem semi-intelligent while he can control comments on his blog but I don't think he'd fare very well when forced to answer questions directly by a competent lawyer.
Neurodiversity also has some surgeon who calls himself ORAC as an ally. This guy admits that chelation is the proper treatment for mercury poisoning yet rants and raves that chelation won't cure autism. He persists in this idiotic rant in spite of mounting evidence that children are, in fact, being cured of autism with chelation. We hear further moronic assertions that it is invalid to ascribe success to chelation alone since autistic kids improve over time. We are repeatedly reminded by him and his associates that improvement from chelation is not proof of mercury poisoning. The problem with this simplistic answer is that he doesn't tell us why the kids improve with chelation. Some of his wackier associates tell us it is a placebo effect. Perhaps ORAC thinks the kids are improving with chelation because their parents are praying at the same time and God intervened. It boggles the mind how an MD can see kids improve with a medically sanctioned treatment and then claim the improvement was not the result of that treatment. Some guys will say anything to protect their negligent associates who injected too much mercury into infants and now want to cover up their error. That's why ORAC also jumps to denigrate the publication that let us see the truth about mercury in print. He praises the statisticians who knock the Geiers but don't have the smarts to figure out a simple horse race. It's always a good ploy by doctors to knock lawyers. To claim that the VAERS data is suspect because some of the reports were made by lawyers works well when all the idiots who read your junk will agree with this stupid argument. However, when one questions the fact that most people never heard of VAERS and the numbers should be much greater back in the 1990's which would show more of a reduction in autism since the removal of thimerosal from some vaccines, the idiots don't have a response. They just maintain that lawyers have contaminated the data. They don't concern themselves with the statute of limitations and the fact that that statute voids claims by most of the injured children. I guess they figure if they ignore that objection that it will go away.
Then we have Kathleen Siedel, the raving maniac of Neurodiversity who has something to say about everything that proves the mercury connection. Her most recent spin against the Geiers claims it is the political far right and their values versus the low brow musings of the far left. How political leanings have anything to do with the science involved is beyond me but that is the gist of her latest deranged rant. Sure, knock the publication's politics when you can't refute what they say. This is how Kathleen helps autistic children. She rants against science that will help them.

44 comments:

Anonymous said...

Just to let you know Orac/Gorski hates certain statistics. Like those that track his word counts, I still laugh about his production of 6,000+ a day last year. And he did those 6,000+ all by himself, even edited them, not a "SINGLE" error.

Now I notice he's a lot more careful about those counts. Maybe his editors are concerned about over using him?

Fore Sam said...

Anon;
Is he writing while he's in surgery?

Anonymous said...

Oh, gawd, anon 8:14 it's obvious who you are. Obssessed much?

Joseph said...

The Greier's paper is flawed starting with the terminology used, as I've repeatedly indicated. For laughs, check Figure 3 of the paper and try to figure out how it is that they draw the "downward trend" line.

Fore Sam said...

Joe;
When you become a peer reviewed scientist like the Geier's, then you can criticize them. Until then, you should pay attention to what they say and educate yourself.

jypsy (janet norman-bain) said...

When you become a peer reviewed scientist like the Geier's, then you can criticize them.

Sop does it follow that 'When you become a peer reviewed scientist like the Michelle Dawson, then you can criticize her.?

Joseph said...

Until then, you should pay attention to what they say and educate yourself.

I don't care for authority, not that they are. Not many autistics do. I care a lot more for facts, logic and science.

Joseph said...

BTW, the kind of logic the Greir's use to determine that the number of "New Cases" of autism is going down was conclussively refuted in my posting titled CDDS Data 101 -- and there has not been a single relevant rebuttal of the data presented to date (MarĂ­a did have some comments, but did not dispute the arguments) despite my invitations to address what I argue there.

Joseph said...

When you become a peer reviewed scientist like the Geier's, then you can criticize them.

And how do you know I haven't published in a peer reviewed journal? I'm not going to give full details, but for a short while when I was in school I co-authored some papers in the field of Computer Science. Not that that's relevant, but you make too many assumptions.

Fore Sam said...

Jypsy;
I see you're still perseverating. Have someone slap you on the back and move the needle to the next subject, will you?

Fore Sam said...

Joe;
Just because you helped write something about computers doesn't make you qualified to critique ballet dancing or anything else.
The Geiers are legitimate scientists who are helping children with their research. They are better qualified than you to determine the proper way to interpret some numbers. After all, their work stood the test of peer review. I think you have more learning to do before you will be qualified to critique them.

Joseph said...

Just because you helped write something about computers doesn't make you qualified to critique ballet dancing or anything else.

I can critique whatever the hell I want, regardless of my "credentials". To refute my critique, use logic and facts, not appeal to authority. Evidently, you can't.

Joseph said...

And I don't even understand what you're talking about. Your entire existence revolves around going against 95% of the peer-reviewed research on autism.

Fore Sam said...

Joe;
Sure, this is America where you can critique anyone. You can critique the Red Sox manager if you want. I suspect he has a better idea how to run the team than you. Just because you write some verbose complaint that Dr Geier didn't consult you before he wrote his paper doesn't make you right. Are you taking lessons from Kathleen on how to put readers to sleep with excess verbiage?

Fore Sam said...

Joe;
What you consider peer reviewed research is actually drug company propaganda that is reviewed by drug company shills who are engaged in a coverup. It's pure bullshit and you know it.

Joseph said...

Joe;
What you consider peer reviewed research is actually drug company propaganda that is reviewed by drug company shills who are engaged in a coverup. It's pure bullshit and you know it.


I already know you think everyone is out to get you.

Joseph said...

So according to you, peer-reviewed research published in serious well-respected journals is all a big conspiracy. Meanwhile, allegedly peer-reviewed research published in a reputedly fringe journal (which apparently does not print retractions) is great research we should learn from.

Fore Sam said...

Joe;
What you call a fringe journal reports facts. The majority consider it to be valid science. It is just a few sadistic people who don't want to help autistic children who call it a rag. The things you favor that you call respectable are financed by the drug companies who poisoned you into autism. Why do you support liars who harmed you? That doesn't make much sense.

Joseph said...

Why do you support liars who harmed you? That doesn't make much sense.

Of course it doesn't, and you should think about that. The obvious answer is that your premise must be flawed. This is called reductio ad absurdum.

Fore Sam said...

Joseph;
Your position of supporting those who cause autism is the thing that's absurd. That would be like me supporting a jockey who choked a horse that I bet on. If you get yourself cured, you'll be able to see the flaw in your logic.

jypsy said...

I see you're still perseverating. Have someone slap you on the back and move the needle to the next subject, will you?

was that a "yes" or a "no"?

Fore Sam said...

Jypsy;
Michelle is an out of work postal worker, not a scientist.

Joseph said...

If you get yourself cured, you'll be able to see the flaw in your logic.

If you get a brain transplant you just might be able to see the flaw in yours.

Fore Sam said...

Joe; More fuzzy thinking. You'd be so much better off going through life without a disability.

jypsy said...

Dr. Geier’s expertise, training, and experience is in genetics and obstetrics.

Fore Sam said...

Jypsy;
His training in genetics makes him the perfect man for the job. Autism isn't genetic and he knows that. You should listen to him.

Jannalou said...

His training in genetics makes him the perfect man for the job. Autism isn't genetic and he knows that. You should listen to him.

That makes little to no sense.

Training in genetics doesn't make him an expert on hormones or heavy metal poisoning.

He should stick to his specialties.

jypsy said...

Ms. Dawson is in the press again
http://www.ledevoir.com/2006/03/14/104257.html

"For example, at the Supreme Court of Canada, I argued that it is a violation of the Charter to fail to provide all autistic people with whatever assistance we require."
(English translation)

Now what was it you were saying her intervention was about Mr. Best?

Kev said...

Great factless rant as usual John. I particularly like how you failed to use any paragraph breaks to give it the extra 'fundamentalist rant' feel :o)

I'd take on the points you raised in this piece but as usual I couldn't find any.

Fore Sam said...

Jypsy;
This post is about knuckleheads attacking the Geier's. Please stay on topic.

Fore Sam said...

Kevin;
It's a funny thing about blogger. You indent to start the paragraphs and, when you publish it the indentations disappear. Mind telling me what :o) means?
I'm not surprised the point went over your head.

Kev said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Joseph said...

That would be like me supporting a jockey who choked a horse that I bet on.

I take it you think of your children as horses you bet on.

Fore Sam said...

Joe;
You missed the connection. It wasn't about the horse. It was about the integrity of the jockey as compared to the integrity of the drug industry.
If you got yourself cured, I might not have to explain these things to you.

Kev said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
jypsy said...

Ok, pop over to
http://hatingautism.blogspot.com/2006/02/knuckleheads-of-neurodiversity-ii.html#comments
and answer it there

Fore Sam said...

Jypsy;
Give the needle a shove.

Kev said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Fore Sam said...

Kevin;
If you have something intelligent to say, I won't delete it.

Kev said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
jypsy said...

Gee... I hate to go off topic again, but speaking of people in the press... I see my son Alex made it into the "SCHAFER AUTISM REPORT" today...

Fore Sam said...

Kevin;
I know you are disappointed that I didn't include you as one of Neurodiversity's knuckleheads. I may include you in a different group, perhaps Neurodiverse Lowlifes, in a future post.

777-300 said...

Talkin 'bout my generation

Mercury is all around (rescuing a generation)
In teeth and hair it can be found (rescuing a generation)
People think what they are t-t-told (rescuing a generation)
Your science-speak is g-g-gettin' old (rescuing a generation)

This is hype generation
This is hype generation, babies


Why don’t you all key-key-late (trans-dermal chelation)
And buy some more D-M-SA (bankrupting a generation)
We're just trying to cause a big s-s-sensation (rescuing a generation)
I’m just rescuing a whole g-g-g-generation (rescuing degeneration)

This is hype generation
This is hype generation, babies

Why don’t you all drop R-N-A (Yasko has the formulation)
And don’t try to*#@& what the %$*# we s-s-say (talkin’ ’bout some denigration)
I’m just trying to save the whole damn n-n-nation (talkin' 'bout my own damnation)
By placin' ads in p-p-publications (talkin’ ’bout child exploitation)

This is hype generation
This is hype generation, babies

Conspiracies and plots abound (callin' for investigation)
Government can't keep us d-d-down (rescuing a generation)
David Kirby's books are s-s-sold (documenting veneration)
Yeah, I hope they rot and gather mold (media for cultivation)

This is hype generation
This is tripe generation, babies

Michael Morab said...

Your blog is creative Keep it up. Michael Morab