Friday, April 20, 2007

Why Did Cho Do It?

We heard that Cho had autism from his aunt. Then that comment disappeared. We heard that Cho was bullied. We heard he was a loner who didn't even speak or make eye contact with his room mates. There was the comment that autism brought shame on the family in Korean culture. Who knows what to make of his rant about wealthy people? The isolation and loneliness he endured probably played some nasty tricks with his sanity.

All of this is relevant if one wants to dwell on minutiae. All of it sets the stage for his explosion. We who endure autism every damn day know the ultimate reason for this manifestation of a ruined life.

Publicizing the ultimate reason for this explosion is the only thing that can prevent it from happening again. I'm sick of all the comments claiming that identifying Cho as autistic will make it harder for kids with autism. Problems are not solved by hiding information. People who are strange don't have friends and no ammount of societal do-gooding is going to change that.

If Cho was autistic, I want to see it publicized. I want it to be well known what mercury does to brains. The ultimate cause of this horror began in 1931 when Eli Lilly started poisoning people with thimerosal. The fact that the media removed that comment from Cho's aunt just says that the media is hiding autism from intense scrutiny. Intense scrutiny of the ultimate reason for this horror might produce the truth for the whole world to see. We don't know if Cho was poisoned by mercury like my son was. Does anyone think that fact will be covered up if a tox screen reveals it? If Cho had thimerosal induced autism, the vaccine manufacturers and the medical profession must accept the blame for the lost lives. The truth is the only thing that can prevent more of the same.

93 comments:

Anonymous said...

last night Fox News was still reporting that the Aunt said after Cho arrived in US he was diagnosed as having autism.

Fore Sam said...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/tm_headline=son-of-a-bitch%26method=full%26objectid=18931479%26siteid=89520-name_page.html
Here's another report.

Anonymous said...

other countries media are stepping up with the truth

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21590277-601,00.html

Cho had autism say Korean relatives

April 20, 2007

VIRGINIA Tech gunman Cho Seung-hui was diagnosed with autism after the family emigrated to the United States, a relative in South Korea said.
"From the beginning, he wouldn't answer me," Kim Yang-soon, Cho's great aunt, said in an interview yesterday with Associated Press Television News. He "didn't talk. Normally sons and mothers talk. There was none of that for them. He was very cold."

"When they went to the United States, they told them it was autism," said Kim, 85, adding that the family had constant worries about Cho.

The uncle gave a similar account, but said there were no early indications that the South Korean student who killed 32 people and himself at Virginia Tech University in the US had serious problems. The uncle asked to be identified only by his last name, Kim.

Cho "didn't talk much when he was young. He was very quiet, but he didn't display any peculiarities to suggest he may have problems," Kim said by telephone.

"We were concerned about him being too quiet and encouraged him to talk more."

Autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder that encompasses a broad range of symptoms frequently including impaired social interaction and communication, as well as obsessive interests and behaviour.

It remains a topic of heated debate in the scientific community, where little is understood about its cause.

Cho left South Korea with his family in 1992 to seek a better life in the United States. Since the shooting, the US government has been providing protection for Cho's parents, South Korea's ambassador to Washington said today.

"We've confirmed that the parents are being safely protected by US investigative authorities," Ambassador Lee Tae-sik told MBC Radio.

Lee said US authorities had declined to reveal where the parents were "because they move from place to place everyday."

Kim, the uncle, said the family never visited their homeland, and that he did not recognise his nephew when his picture appeared on television as the culprit in the deadliest shooting rampage in US history.

"I am devastated," Kim said between heavy sighs. "I don't know what I can tell the victims' families and the US citizens. I sincerely apologise ... as a family member."

In South Korea, Cho's parents ran a small book store in Seoul, Kim said. The family lived in a two-room apartment no larger than 40 square metres.

"They had trouble making ends meet in Korea. The book store they had didn't turn much profit," Kim said.

He said his sister - Cho's mother - occasionally called around holidays, but never mentioned having any problems with her son.

"She said the children were studying well. She didn't seem worried about her children at all," Kim said. "She just talked about how hard she had to work to make a living, to support the children."

Kim said he had been unable to reach Cho's mother since Monday's massacre. She and her husband now work at a dry cleaners in suburban Washington.

- AP

Anonymous said...

Africa
http://www.thestar.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=3791571

Canada
http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_10015.aspx

AutismLink
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/04-19-2007/0004569764&EDATE=

Anonymous said...

My child has autism and is a gentle soul who would never hurt anyone. I don't think it is fair to make a blanket statement about autistic people because of the actions of one individual. There are plenty of people in jail who are not autistic and are murders. And yes, we are doing biomed with our child.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, What blanket statement are you talking about? Did I say all autistic people are possible killers? Or, did I simply state that the mercury poisoning, if that was the case, was the root of the problem?

Anonymous said...

"Anon, What blanket statement are you talking about? Did I say all autistic people are possible killers? Or, did I simply state that the mercury poisoning, if that was the case, was the root of the problem?"

No, you definitely indicated that we were all murderers. Also, Cho was isolated by other people. Autistic or not, he shouldn't have been made to feel isolated. Only other people can do that to you.

How dare you even contemplate spreading this kind of Propaganda. How dare you talk like that and you should feel ashamed of yourself!

You remind of the Nazi's when they used to use "The Merchant of Venice" by William Shakespere as a part of their Propaganda against the Jews. You are sick!

Anonymous said...

So now all of a sudden our media thinks the translation was correct???

What else aren't we being told & why ???

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,267282,00.html

Relative Says Virginia Tech Shooter Was Autistic

Friday, April 20, 2007

Anonymous said...

The DC snipers and Tim McVeigh had head up the ass-ism. Much like you do.

Anonymous said...

I hope the next Cho gets you. You are a stupid ass.

You realize, that this is just karmic justice for all the autistics killed in the holocaust. This non-news is merely what happens when society gets served its own just rewards for how it treats it's most needy members of society. Every dog has its day.

Anonymous said...

There is such a thing as "karmic justice". I thank God every day for the few people there are such as John Best. He has the courage of his convictions & honesty.

"Unless you stand for something, you will fall for anything".
You would have to be a blind person if you can't see what has unfolded here in the past 24 hours. The Truth. And as corny as it sounds the truth will set us all free. John already did an excellent job spelling it all out here. But I'll make another attempt. If you know what causes autism, you can cure it. It's as simple as that. Cure it & prevent it from happening to others.

Anonymous said...

Fore Sam,

YOu seem to have a blanket opinion about autism. You had another blog post awhile back on a similar subject. I agree with you on biomed and treating autism. I disagree with your tone alot. I sometimes worry that negative views of autism will result in my child and along with autistic people in general dealing with more negative stereotypes that make their lives difficult. Of course I wish my child to be cured of autism, but I also am a realist and I notice that not all children will be cured. Your son is on the severe end, or was, is he not? What if he end up being "partially cured" and is rediagnosed as aspbergers and he remains hfa the rest of his life. Will you still have such a negative view of autistim?

Anonymous said...

check out the vaccines Cho had to have in Korea & then needed to attend school here !!!

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=24838

Cho Seung-Hui’s possible link to toxic injury

Alan E. Moses
April 20, 2007
It may take weeks and possibly months before we find all of the answers as to why this horrifying ordeal unfolded on the campus of Virginia Tech. The reports of Cho’s last ten years of life are slowly coming out. He was a loner that made no attempts to befriend anyone. He rarely spoke but when he did others laughed as it was in a low muttering tone. Other school children pushed and made fun of the quiet Korean boy. He was strange so he was an outcast. Of course this happens in schools across the country and does not explain what we have just witnessed.

School teachers and then professors failed to recognize that trouble was brewing within. And some of these professionals played along with the threats and taunts. One Virginia Tech professor calling him, “something evil” on national television. Is this not discrimination at it’s fullest? The fact was that this troubled young man was ill for years prior to going to VT. Somehow he had gotten to his senior year without talking as his knowledge made up for his unwillingness to participate.

We need to take this unfortunate situation and ask some questions about what could have caused Cho to be so anti-social. Could he have been injured by toxins and just couldn’t think or feel in rational ways? We know his parents owned a dry cleaning business that uses a toxic chemical Perchloroethylene (Perc). Being a loner and described as a mommy’s boy did he spend his time in proximity to this chemical as his mother worked? Could Cho have absorbed or inhaled too much Perc over time and caused brain damage?

There is another contribution to this that many feel has caused problems with their own children. An ever growing number of parents feel that vaccines are causing all types of mental disorders. The neurotoxin thimerosal has been questioned for some time. This is a mercury based antibacterial still used in the production and contained in some vaccines. And a quick look at some of the vaccines that Cho received will shock many of the parents that feel that thimerosal is dangerous to children.


Children in South Korea where Cho and his family migrated from receive a vaccine for Encephalitis as this nation like many Asian countries have outbreaks every year. It is a major health issue. Twenty years ago the South Korean government implemented a program to vaccinate children to ward off this disease. The vaccine of choice was what is known as the Nakayama vaccine or JE. Many travelers to the Fareast today receive this vaccine as a precautionary measure. A South Korean child of 15 may have received 14 of these thimerosal containing vaccines. A booster was required every year as immunity would dissipate. By 1995 this practice was halted due to concerns over excessive vaccinations and the adverse effects that were reported. A new Chinese made vaccine without thimerosal. SA14-14-2 became the booster as it didn’t require yearly injections. (Ref. Young Mo Sohn, Yosnei University college of Medicine, Seoul South Korea)

Once Cho and his family came to the U.S. he had to have his U.S. vaccines brought up to requirements in order to attend school. The question remains just how many Thimerosal vaccines did he receive and in how short of time before he began school here? In 1992 many U.S. vaccines still contained this mercury product and we must remember that boosters were required again at 13 for one Hep-B.

As his symptoms reveal, was Cho an undiagnosed child that suffered from Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD)? He rarely made eye contact, rarely spoke and preferred to be alone as he seemed to have lacked social skills. During his time in grade school many ASD children went undiagnosed as this phenomenon had yet to explode until the late 90’s. There was little information and many doctors put the word shy to over use. And as many of these early ASD children he was ridiculed by classmates and teachers. ASD and mental retardation do not go hand in hand as many believe so Cho’s intelligence is not uncommon but may have created the lack of intervention as it is assumed that to be ASD you also have trouble in learning.

In a society that claims to be so advanced we need to stop the name calling of those that are different. Our teachers and medical communities need to be trained in the ability to recognize these problems before they get to this point. We should have early intervention as this has proven to be a deterrent of major problems down the line. We can’t just assume that a child might be a loser, hater, or evil. There are reasons and it is up to all of us to find them and acknowledge them.

Cho took 32 lives and forever harmed others and to just blame him is wrong. No doubt that he was very seriously ill and yet he was so ill he couldn’t help him self. We need to recognize that society allowed this very ill young man to fall further away from reality. Our ability to accept and recognize possible toxic injury needs to widen. Open your eyes and open your hearts as we can’t afford to loose more innocent lives because we allowed one ill one to self destruct taking others with him.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, Lots of people disagree with the tone I use here. I spend lots of time arguing with people who think chelating kids is akin to murdering them. Those people don't deserve an ounce of respect.
It's impossible to have an intelligent discussion with them in which the problems of the autistic in society can be addressed along with the possibility that the autism can be cured which would negate the need for concern about any problems. If you're not very familiar with Neuroinsanity, they refuse to accept the fact that autism is mercury poisoning and they don't understand that curing autism is a good thing. So, the philosophy of acceptance that they preach is diminished because they have accepted brain damage from mercury as something to celebrate which is completely insane. If they could be taught that they have a chance to fix their damaged brains as we try to do for our children, then it might be possible to converse with them intelligently.
That said, I can't make a dent in all the problems faced by autistics on this blog. All I try to do is spread the message that autism is curable. While I'm at it, I have some fun with people who may well be paid by Pharma to come up with inane ideas that convince people not to bother trying to help their children. Again, these jackasses deserve no respect.

Anonymous said...

Fore Sam,

I see your point. I was feeling really frustrated and discouraged the other day when I was looking for blogs by biomed parents and I kept coming across neurodiversity blogs with blatant hate messages against DAN and biomed. It does make me angry. I think it scares off alot of parents on the fence. It also makes me angry when the parents who refuse to seek any treatment to cure their children are branded "the good guys". If you have been dealing with it a long time, I guess I can see why you are pissed off.

Fore Sam said...

I had a good night with Sam tonight. We watched the Red Sox beat the Yankees and he sat there watching the whole game. He even cheered along with me a few times when something good happened for the Sox. So, we can see that chelation is working if he's finally learning to hate the Yankees.

Anonymous said...

good article ~

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_anne_mce_070420_autism_in_the_news_3a_.htm

Autism in the News: Virginia Tech

Anonymous said...

The word about Cho and autism is already out. Thank God for the internet. It cannot be hidden now.

Not all autistics are killers, we know that, but if someone killed because they were autistic, that alone is an argument for a cure. 33 people would still be alive if Cho were not autistic, which I personally thought he was as soon as the story broke.

Autistics isolate themselves because of unacceptable behaviour. How much can the rest of us put up with? I know this from experience. This is why a cure, early intervention and training are imperative.

I am not convinced that all autism is caused by mercury, though I do believe some is. There is a genetic component. I know this because I married into a family of aspergerians, one generation after the next. I know this because I have a child who was never vaccinated, never had a amalgam, who is mildly asperger's. I do believe that had my child been vaccinated the autism would have been way worse.

Autism is a serious disorder that causes havoc is peoples lives. Why anyone would not want their child to live the best possible life, ie. be cured, is beyond belief.

All children and adults with autism deserve help and compassion.

Monica Moshenko said...

I have read that Cho was in deed diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder at eight years of age… but no intervention took place. It wasn’t autism that killed people in Virginia Tech but an individual that had exhibited symptoms of a learning disability at a young age and the people that came in contact with all the years in school did nothing to intervene. Why ..because he was smart, a loner and Korean….. and probably because his own family didn’t accept the diagnosis (this isn’t so unusual is it?)



I think it is wrong to deny that Cho exhibited autism traits... It is not autism that killed people but this individual Cho who never received help or interventions for years..........

This is so important for parents to remember and a lesson for all people who try to deny children services/support or say they are too smart to receive services at all... even though they have a diagnosis. All the years that Cho was in school, all the teachers that had in class didn't see that he had a disability and did nothing speaks volumes to me. It is not so unusual to hear about kids that are smart, shy, lacking social skills that continue to get pushed through the system for a myriad of reasons......schools don't want to provide services, parents don't want to accept the diagnosis, parents don't know their rights under law for interventions, and some parents have issues that compound getting help for their own child...

If we don't accept that Cho was diagnosed with autism and learn from this, we are compounding the problem of getting help for thousands of children now and in the future. While I admit that children on the autism spectrum are not usually violent, keep in mind this young man was someone who never had intervention and who knows what it was like for him to deal with day to day issues..which I am certain most people didn't even know as he didn't share his feels.. How many kids on the autism spectrum have challenges with sharing their feelings?

Remember this individual Cho does not represent Autism - he was diagnosed with it and no one did anything to intervene.



Can you imagine being diagnosed with cancer when you are eight-years old and then no one does anything for years, even though they suspect something is wrong? Then you "suddenly" do things from rage...because you are dying inside and no one did a thing to help.



I am not trying to justify what Cho did as right, what I am saying is that this individual needed help, was diagnosed with autism and lived without any treatment/therapy for years… not able to have friends, social issues, etc. along with other emotional problems that compounded his mental state.



Where are all the experts that saw the signs and symptoms which Cho exhibited for years… and did nothing but push him through the system?





By denying the diagnosis now, people will further contribute to other’s not getting the help they so desperately need…





Monica Moshenko, Parent, Advocate

Host – DisAbility News & Views Radio

www.disabilitynewsradio.com



Article “Cho Was Autistic: Family”

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/cho-was-autistic-family/2007/04/21/1176697133222.html

Anonymous said...

"Not all autistics are killers, we know that, but if someone killed because they were autistic, that alone is an argument for a cure."

But it may not be the reason for murdering those people. Why do people always assume that when an autistic person murders someone, it's all down to their autism?

Cho could have just been homicidal for other reasons. By associating autism with murder just makes more prejudice towards us which mean that we could get murdered by our peers- do want that on your concience?

So, it's okay to blame autism for murder, but it's not okay to blame his abusers for making him go crazy? BULLCRAP!!!

"Autistics isolate themselves because of unacceptable behaviour."

No, we don't don't always keep away from others. When we do, it is normally to have a break from society. Everyone should have time to themselves or else we'd go crazy.

"I do believe that had my child been vaccinated the autism would have been way worse."

I'm not too strong about this point but I must bring it up; so it's better to have the measles than autism?

"Autism is a serious disorder that causes havoc in peoples lives. Why anyone would not want their child to live the best possible life, ie. be cured, is beyond belief."

Personally, I've had worse to worry about. and autism doesn't stop me from having a great life and don't you dare say that I'm an exception!
It is that stigma that makes autism awful. If we didn't have the stigma, autism wouldn't be bad.

All children and adults with autism deserve help and compassion.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, You said: "So, it's okay to blame autism for murder, but it's not okay to blame his abusers for making him go crazy? BULLCRAP!!!"
Use some common sense here, will you. Both of these things obviously came into play. If he had been cured of autism, would he have had to deal with the ridicule? Would millions of autistics have to deal with ridicule if we could cure them? Since they can't all be cured, it makes sense to make everyone aware of the condition. That might lessen the abuse. It makes even more sense to TRY to cure all of them.

The Lilac Pilgrim said...

Foresam, I have to say, you're being rather conformist in your response to the anonymous person. I was ridiculed in my first primary school because I was smarter than most people in my class and the class above me. Should I be cured of intelligence so I don't have to face ridicule? There are still people now who make fun of me for the way I dress and the music I listen to. Should I conform to their standards in case I become homicidal?

Fore Sam said...

Pilgrim, Crank up your radio, give them the finger if they don't like it and help the less intelligent if you can. If that doesn't work, just punch them in the mouth or find a friend to do it for you. I was also the smartest in my grammar school and that's what worked for me. Good luck.

Anonymous said...

John, the people who abuse autistics shouldn't be abusing them in the first place. Stigma hurts, John or haven't you already been told that?

The fact that you are trying to further stigmatise autism by implying that we are blood-thristy, souless killers just proves how petty and desperate you are to get heard.

Anonymous said...

"Pilgrim, Crank up your radio, give them the finger if they don't like it and help the less intelligent if you can. If that doesn't work, just punch them in the mouth or find a friend to do it for you. I was also the smartest in my grammar school and that's what worked for me. Good luck. "

You're missing the point. the fact is that she shouldn't have o conform to society. And if you think you were the smartest in your school, it must have been a really crap school otherwise you're thinking way too much of yourself.

But I guess thats what you do for a living- filling up your ego.

The Lilac Pilgrim said...

Foresam, I'm afraid you seem to be missing the point. My point is that I don't want to be like them - I think differently to most people, I wear what I think looks good on me and I do listen to my music as loud as I can :) However, my point is, I let the idiots at my school and those in the place that I live listen to their stupid music and do the things they like and I don't try to make anyone like me. So why should I tell people what they should want? There are people who don't want a cure and there are those who do. While I don't agree with a cure, I believe the option should be there for those that want it and those who don't want it shouldn't be pressured into it. Think of it perhaps like X-Men, if you will. ;)

GooglyBear said...

"I'm not too strong about this point but I must bring it up; so it's better to have the measles than autism?"

Measles goes away. You have it, you get over it. Autism just keeps lingering on. If I had to choose between my dd living a life of autism or having a viral infection for a few weeks of her life, I would pick the latter.

"Personally, I've had worse to worry about. and autism doesn't stop me from having a great life and don't you dare say that I'm an exception!"

*sigh* obviously your autism is not significant enough to stop you from being articulate and having alot of independance. A long time ago, I worked with a low functioning woman with autism. Autism stopped her from doing everything in her life. She was not able to communicate in any way, she was in diapers, she had a ton of oral sensory issues that frequently landed her in the hospital on IV's because she refused to eat and she was so sensitive to stimuli that she was constantly screaming and abusing herself. Her doctor just kept shoving pills and more pills and adjusting the pills..etc, to try to make her better with pharmaceutical drugs. Which is the only hope traditional medicine gives for autistic people- which is no hope at all. [sarcasm] I guess nobody told her about neurodiversity or celebrating autism, that probably would have made it all better. [/sasrcasm]

Fore Sam said...

Pilgrim, It is much simpler to avoid causing autism with mercury than to cure it or to ask everyone to make adjustments to accomodate it. In the case of Mr Cho, a forced cure would have been a lot better for all those innocent people he slaughtered. How do you know someone from the cult of Neuroinsanity won't be the next one to crack? I can point out a few who look like likely candidates.
And, for what, for the sake of them deluding themselves into believing that autism is solely genetic? It's insane to go through life with a handicap when enjoying it without a diagnosis of mental illness is possible.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, I didn't imply that you're all killers. Some people proved that some of you are. Let's fix those people instead of letting them rot to the point that they become a danger to themselves and others.
You can't blame society for not becoming friends with someone who won't talk to anyone. Let's make it possible for that non-verbal person to fit in by removing poison from his brain.

Anonymous said...

I'm getting a bit bored with the 'poor autistics who get bulied in school' argument.

Lots of people get bullied in school. Kids with other disabilities get bullied. Nerds get bullied. Kids of other races than white get bullied because of their colour. I got bullied in school because I was shy and artsy. The list is endless.


Being bullied is not an excuse for bad behaviour later on or we would all be behaving badly.

Sam said...It is much simpler to avoid causing autism with mercury than to cure it or to ask everyone to make adjustments to accomodate it.

Precisely.

Luckily there are treatments and, yes, prevention, for autism. We can't say the same about other differences.

Nobody should get bullied and nobody should go out and shoot people up for any reason.

Anonymous said...

If you don't want a cure then you don't need costly special ed., staff, assitive devices, special allowances, cheques in the mail for living expenses, subsidized housing, and all the other needs that cost taxpayers a fortune. Those things are for people who are disabled.

Anonymous said...

And Autistics are disabled, Anon.

Anonymous said...

Googlybear, stop making daft assumptions of me.

As for John, Cho could've have murdered someone even if he didn't have autism. We don'know what he'd be like if he didn't have autism!
Also, John, many autistic people make an effort to socialise. The least our peers could do is socialise back.

Also, if you get bullied constantly then of course you are going to go crazy especially if you stigmatise their autism and make them feel like crap. So really, it's that curebie "autism is a burden" attitude that has killed those people, not autism.

I've not murdered anyone but i might have if i thought that autism was a curse.

Anonymous said...

"I've not murdered anyone but i might have if i thought that autism was a curse."

Noone said it's a curse. It's a curable, preventable disease. Let's hope all folks with diseases are treated with respect. It sure makes it easier if they're able to respond when spoken to. We've all heard kids can be cruel. I vote for making life easier for the kid with a disease. Why on earth would you not want to grow & develop in any way possible? That's our right as a human being.

Googlybear said...

Anon,

What "daft" assumptions did I make? YOu said that autism isn't so bad except for the stigma. I pointed out that maybe it isn't for you, but for some people it is quite bad. I know autistic adults who certainly do not have the ability to navigate the internet and type out a response on a blog. I doubt they think autism is "not that bad".

Also, you made the autism or measles comment.

I'm not sure what "curbie autism" is, since I know plenty of parents who utilize biomed who have kids on all ends of the spectrum. My child is on the moderate/high end of the spectrum and still has many issues that need addressing. What I am striving for is total cure, but if we get vast improvment and less limitations, I will accept that too.

BigTimeSynesthete said...

foresam, i saw your other entry called "neurodiversity murders a teenager." Quit blaming everything on autism and neurodiversity. There are millions of causes of murder, and autism is definitly not a direct cause. Sure, maybe getting bullied to bits can anger a person to thet point where he feels like murdering. And it's the bullying that needs to stop, not the autism. Not all people who get bullied are autistic. My friends who were very advanced got bullied because of their young ages. Should they have been placed back at the grade level that matches their ages? No! the people around them just need to stop being jealous jerks. I've been bullied for liking numbers. Should i just try to stop liking numbers? No!!!!!!
Believe it or not, your attitude would also make autistics want to kill people.

Anonymous said...

Noone said it's a curse. It's a curable, preventable disease.

It's not curable. Are you a brain surgeon? That's what you'd have to be to even have a chance of curing Autism. And we don't know anywhere near enough about the brain to have a chance. Chelation doesn't do the job. You can't rewire a brain with chelation or any biomed!

You can lessen the symptoms a bit, but all that does is make things a bit easier - and only for those with heavy metals in their bodies to start with!

Fore Sam said...

Big time nitwit, How many murderers have you seen opt for the diminished capacity defense? Autism is a diminished capacity. While bullying contributes to the problem, the problem would not exist if the simpletons from Neuroinsanity would stop trying to prevent people from helping their mercury damaged children. With their idiotic insistence that mercury didn't cause the problem, they are dooming autistics to that bullying instead of helping them become normal.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, There is no rewiring to be done. All you have to do is unblock the methylation pathways. Thanks to information provided from competent and honest scientists, anyone can learn how to do this.

Anonymous said...

There is no rewiring to be done.

If you want to cure Autism, you HAVE to rewire the brain! It's wired differently from birth. That's Autism! Or any developmental disorder!

Unblocking the methylation pathways makes no difference to that fact!

Googlybear said...

Chelation doesn't do the job. You can't rewire a brain with chelation or any biomed!
You can lessen the symptoms a bit, but all that does is make things a bit easier - and only for those with heavy metals in their bodies to start with!


If chelation and biomed even lessen the symptoms to make things easier on the person, isn't it still worth it? You are right, chelation doesn't cure everyone. It completely recovers some, partially recovers others and some don't have any effect. But biomed is not chelation only. That is just one treatment. If you admit that biomed can help enough to make life easier, why is that bad?

The problem I have with neurodiversity is their constant and unwavering hatred for biomed and DAN!. It seems that anything done in DAN circles or any biomed treatment is immediately and viciously lashed out at as dangerous, unproven..etc. Yet, all traditional medicine and pharmaceuticals offer are heavy drugs that a person can become dependant upon, have side effects, withdrawl effects and sometimes fatal effects. Yes, medicine like Ritalin can be fatal if taken for years on end. That is my problem with neurodiversity. They are usually high functioning autism, aspbergers and diagnosed in adulthood whatevers (who obviously function enough to have had a life) and they attack treatments that are bringing major changes to children- many of whom would never have had the opportunities even the outspoken ND's have without biomed intervention. Before going along with the ND, why don't you go on down and volunteer with severely low functioning adults in group homes. Go tell them to celebrate their neurodiversity while they are sitting in a corner stimming by shaking a sock- or eating the sock and waiting for the next staff member to drag them to a meal they don't want to eat and then drag them to the bathroom for the next diaper change then drag them to the next activity they are not interested in then drug them to sleep.

So if a diet change, some natural supplements and other biomed treatments help my child calm down, focus better, be able to converse more coherently and not have anxiety and depression all day- hey, that's a huge improvment. Since biomed my chld no longer cries all day, eats sand, eats clothing, runs around aimlessly and can hold a more coherent conversation. If my child even goes from being moderate functioning to high functioning, allowing more independance in adulthood- hey, why is that a bad thing.

Anonymous said...

Googleybear, my autism was hard and only now am I able to do thing independantly without making too many bid mistakes in social interaction. That's why your assumptions of me are daft. You don't know me so you can't really say anything.

I didn't say "Curebie Autism" I said "curebie "autism is a burden" attitude"".

And as for your measles rant, I certainly wouldn't thank my mother for putting me through hell (measles) as a child. The measles can REALLY damage your body and for a child, it can be traumatising. Autism is not nearly as bad as that.


I'm not saying that we should feel sorry for Cho. I'm just saying that we shoud investigate problems rather than just say "Oh! he has autism. That means we don't need to do any research on this cause because my ignorance is bigger than my logic"

Anonymous said...

Googleybear, I have friends who have Kanners syndrome who are posiive about their autism. They never had biomeical therapies and they are hapy with their lives. All of my friends with kanners are actually WAY more positive than the aspies, in fact.

How do you explain that?

Anonymous said...

"Googleybear, my autism was hard and only now am I able to do thing independantly without making too many bid mistakes in social interaction"

"All of my friends with kanners are actually WAY more positive than the aspies, in fact.

How do you explain that?"

i'm not Googleybear but my answer would be all people are different & when we live by strict stereotypes is when we get in trouble. 1 size fits all isn't a good approach.

by the way, i suspect you don't have autism but have some other motive for posting as you are ... how about that??

Googlybear said...

Anon,

I am not against autistic people, awareness or community acceptance. I also do not think that autism was the primary cause of Cho's murderous rampage.

A normal rewiring of the brain does not result in normal development and then sudden regression. for instance, a person born with Down's syndrome has the genetic disorder from birth and that child will develop normally behind their peers from day one. When a child who is developing at the same rate as their peers suddenly stops or loses developmental gains, then something happened to take that away.

What I can not for the life of me understand is why neurodiversity is so against cure. I don't know of any other group who is so against cure. Ask people with Parkinson's, Multiple Sclerosis, Arthritis, Diabetes or any other chronic condition and they are usually gunning for a cure. In the meantime, many are seeking alternative or non-mainstream solutions because they don't have 40 years to wait for mainstream medicine to catch up. Why should autism be different?

Googlybear said...

other Anon,

Lots of people are positive. Even people with cancer are positive. Some of the most positive adults I know have Down's syndrome. What does that have to DO with anything? People learn to live with what they are used to. I'm not teaching my child to be negative about autism. I am trying to improve mental function and physical issues. This may or may not result in a full recovery. Currently the results are improved abilities which will serve my child in the future. It is my job as a parent to make sure that my children grow up into adults who are as independant and capable as possible so they can take care of themselves and enjoy the freedoms that God gave them. The thought that my child might one day end up at the mercy of strangers in a mini-institution (aka group home) or some other "facility" scares me. I don't want my child to be a lifelong dependant on me because that is not freedom, but at least I am not abusive. I don't want my child to be dependant on others because even in the best places the system often breaks down. If wanting better for my child makes me an bad parent in the eyes of some, then too bad. I am accountable for my child, who did not come with an instruction manual, so the decisions I make now affect the future. The only regret I never want is to have regrets over what I could have done but didn't.

Anonymous said...

A cure for autism would erase autism from the world. Unfourtunately, because of the stigma around autism, they will force a cure on us if it were available.

Also, my Kanner friends are appaulled by the idea of a cure. They worked their whole lives to get to where they are and for what?
So that someonme can stick sopme drap in their bodies? they are unique and special. they would never be the same without their autism.

We're saving a community, that's why we don't like the idea of a cure. We probably wouldn't mind so much if the government understood the concept of choice.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, Saving a community? What's to save? Brain damage is not something to celebrate.

Noetic said...

Googlybear:
So if a diet change, some natural supplements and other biomed treatments help my child calm down, focus better, be able to converse more coherently and not have anxiety and depression all day- hey, that's a huge improvment. Since biomed my chld no longer cries all day, eats sand, eats clothing, runs around aimlessly and can hold a more coherent conversation. If my child even goes from being moderate functioning to high functioning, allowing more independance in adulthood- hey, why is that a bad thing.

Indeed, I mean each to their own but if something helps a kid enjoy life more, I don't see why anyone should not want the child to have that chance.

I know a lot of the time when you say stuff like that the answer you get is "But we're only opposed to a cure, we don't mind some treatments". That may be so but it's not the impression most ND statements give.

*I* certainly wouldn't want to be cured of the way I am (it's all I know, and I'm happy and function enough to support myself) but I'll be damned if I stop anyone else from wanting the same for themselves, or from trying to help (within reason - *some* therapies and meds can be very traumatising and ineffective etc.) their kids.

Googlybear said...

A cure for autism would erase autism from the world. Unfourtunately, because of the stigma around autism, they will force a cure on us if it were available.

Someone took the movie X-men 3 waaaay too seriously. Nobody is going to line up autistic people and inject them with a "cure". Cures are rarely if ever that simple, especially for complex disorders like autism. More than likely it will be therapies and degrees of recovery- similar to what we have with biomed already. And believe me, "they" will never force it on you because "they" are run by the insurance companies that hate paying for stuff. So undoubtedly, if any of the therapies that have resulted in recovery make it to mainstream medicine, there is going to be a whole new blogging community. The community of people on the spectrum and their families who can not get the ASD person on health insurance because of their preexisting condition of autism, to pay for the therapies that will cure them. Kind of like how there are people dying from a relapse of cancer because they are excluded from insurance companies and can not pay out of pocket.

I'm just baffled. I'm going to call Michael J. Fox and ask him if he is worried about Parkinson's getting wiped off the face of the earth.

Anonymous said...

Autistics lack theory of mind. For this reason they cannot see any other perspective than their own. This is why they do not want a cure. They are unable to see that there is anything wrong with them. I lived with an autistic for 20 years who could not and still cannot believe that things that happen outside of his direct view, still happen.

If a tree falls in the forest and an aspie did not see it, did it really fall?

Was there a tree? Was there a forest?

Not to them.

Noetic said...

googlybear - I don't know who you quoted there but can't you just accept that some people are happy the way they are? That doesn't mean others aren't allowed to desire a cure for themselves, or that you shouldn't try to help those who suffer from their symptoms.

Comparing a pervasive developmental disorder, something you are born with and grow up knowing nothing else, with a progressively degenerative neurological disorder like Parkinsonism is rather pointless though. Someone who is born with only one arm has never known anything else and can be perfectly happy the way they are.

But if you chop someone's arm off or the arm stops functioning gradually and becomes paralysed, the person has grown up being able to use that arm. They LOSE something they had before.

When it's something you have had all your life, and you are perfectly happy being yourself, why would you want to change that?

For reference read the chapter about the man whose vision was restored in Oliver Sacks' book "An Anthropologist on Mars".

The chapter is called "To see or not to see", this is an excerpt: http://www.oliversacks.com/marsex.htm

This man had been blind since earliest childhood and was utterly lost and confused when he suddenly was given his vision back. His brain just couldn't cope with it.

Fore Sam said...

Noetic, What drugs did Oliver Sacks take to get himself to Mars? I'll bet the blind guy made a quick adjustment. He was probably pleased when saw what all the to-do was about Pamela Anderson. Your autistics will be pleasantly surprised to see what life is like without brain damage. Not much different than getting a junkie off drugs.

Googlybear said...

My child was not born autistic.

Anonymous said...

Oh yes they were Googly! It just takes time to show up. It also depends on what you feed them. Of course you have to know if the child has an Autistic brain first. That's the problem!

Gluten free diet is the best way to go.

sebastian said...

"Autism is a serious disorder that causes havoc is peoples lives."

haha, yes because of ignorant people like you.

you call us mind blind, that we lack empathy, such ignorance, i hope you are happy in your bubble.

Googlybear said...

My child needs a gluten free diet because of the damage that occured that caused damage to the gut. It's not the other way around. The damage occured first, then the diet was needed. Many parents are finding that once they recover their children and heal their guts, the diet is not needed any longer. I view the diet as a tool, like chelation. It is useful until its work is done.

What do you mean by "it hadn't shown up yet"? Things are either there or not there. I had a 13 month old with a 50 word vocabulary and was putting two and three words into sentences. Then at 16 months, I had a child who had one three word echolalic sentence and nothing else. This is environment triggering a genetic predisposition. Autism was not set in stone. When someone is born with Down's syndrome, they are born with the delay and progress accordingly behind their peers. My child was peer level and then suddenly was not. What occured in between was a cold that turned into an ear infection and a doctor who was peeved because we didn't have a vax appointment set an the MMR was going to end up "late" and gave the shot while my child was sick- to save time. You do know it is counterindicated, even in medical circles to give vaccines to ill children- right?

My child was not born autistic.

Laura said...

I've never posted on here, but man, the comments. Especially this one: "And as for your measles rant, I certainly wouldn't thank my mother for putting me through hell (measles) as a child. The measles can REALLY damage your body and for a child, it can be traumatising. Autism is not nearly as bad as that."

I beg to differ! A LIFELONG disorder (and it's not call a "Fun! Order" - it's a "DISorder!") is so much more HELL than measles, a virus that healthy children overcome in a week's time. If I had to choose if I had a child sick with measles (yes, I know measles can be serious in some cases) or Autism, I'd choose measles every freakin' time. No question at all.

And I second this: My child was NOT born autistic.

BigTimeSynesthete said...

"If I had to choose if I had a child sick with measles (yes, I know measles can be serious in some cases) or Autism, I'd choose measles every freakin' time. No question at all."
Laura,
I don't mean to be rude, but you should never speak for people with autism, not even your own children. I have autism and i don't see it as a disorder. It's only a disorder to some people. immune system problems are a comorbid of autism, they are not part of autism. Treating them is perfectly acceptable, because it helps the kid live longer. But curing autism (or at leasst Aspergers) is like making a gay person straight. Some people hate being autistic, while others embrace it. Likewise, some gays would do anything to make themselves straight, because they feel that it's their fault they're being discriminated against. If your son hates being autistic and wants to be neurotypical, that's his buisiness, I don't care. But you shouldn't force him to be NT against his will. I'd rather be prey to a hungry wild cat than let anyone make me NT, period. At least i'm doing my favorite animal a favor!

watson said...

Anonymous said...
...... I certainly wouldn't thank my mother for putting me through hell (measles) as a child. The measles can REALLY damage your body and for a child, it can be traumatising. Autism is not nearly as bad as that.

A lifetime of autism is far worse for my son than a week off school with measles was for me.

There was no talk of trauma, damage to the body or brain or death from measles before the vaccine came out, and drumming up fear of measles was, and is, one sure way of getting parents to vaccinate their kids.

Although measles encephalitis was very rare, some unfortunate children never completely recovered but developed symptoms of brain damage called post-encephalitic syndrome, which looks identical to autism. Preventing this type of brain damage was one of the reasons for the vaccine.

I think many parents would prefer nursing a child through a week of measles to life-long brain damage from vaccines designed to prevent it.

watson said...

Anonymous, My son was not born with autism and he didn't have "an autistic brain", whatever that is.

All reports from regular well checks during his first two years say, "Doing everything right", "Passed with "flying colours". Then he had another vaccine, and another reaction, described as always as a normal event. Only this time was different, he did not recover.

He was irritable, his eating habits and sleeping patterns changed. He struggled to find words he had previously known well, and gradually stopped speaking in short sentences and phrases. He stopped singing. He stopped playing with his toys. He stopped communicating. He stopped responding to his name.

Four months later the light had completely gone from his eyes, the expression on his face was mask-like. He was non-verbal, and spent his days obsessively opening and closing doors and drawers, and playing with light switches. He became aggressive and violent at the slightest interference. He was terrified of certain sounds, and music of any description. He had completely lost interest in people.

From a verbal, cuddly, fun-loving toddler at 24 months doing "everything right", to a non-verbal, non-communicative, obsessive, violent and aggressive toddler at 28 months.

I don't know what type of autism you have, anon, but this is not a healthy difference in neurological hardwiring as the ND activists would have it, nor an Aspie personality, which might very well be genetic.

This type of autism **is** a nightmare, as John has so often described it. There was no "autistic brain first", there was damage to a perfectly-functioning brain.

If my son's loss of skills and obvious change in personality and behaviour had followed a viral disease instead of a vaccine, it would have been called post-encephalitic syndrome, not autism.

Just like many children with vaccine-induced brain damage, my son has been put under the ever-expanding autism umbrella - along with children with RAD, FAS, SCS, NVLD and MCDD, and along with adults with resolved mental illnesses, and personality differences.

The only common factor amongst them is fitting or almost fitting a checklist of behaviours, to one degree or another.

Anonymous said...

Foresam is scared of the real truth! He deleted my post!

To everyone who says their child was not born with Autism, you're WRONG!! They were!! Autistic babies grow "normally" until they suffer their first sensory overload. Fact. Before the first SO Autism is impossible to detect.

Don't delete this, Foresam. You make yourself look like those you call cowards if you do. You know it. Delete this - and you're a gutless wonder. Let it through, and the world will know the real truth - and that stains your pants doesn't it?

Googlybear said...

Bigtime,

If you fix the immune system, you often resolve the autism. If done correctly. Many times, what needs to be done to correct the immune dysfunction is removing food allergens, detoxing heavy metal overloads and other environmental toxins, giving alot of supplements to enhance function and correct deficiencies, heal internal inflammations, and get rid of pathogens like candidas albicans overgrowth. Interestingly, many parents are finding that once they have done these things their child radically improves or recovers entirely from autism. Now why would that happen if one thing has nothing to do with another?

You are afraid someone is going to cure you? Nobody is going to force an expensive and time consuming cure on you, certainly not insurance companies that don't want to pay for squat. What I am afraid of is that people are going to force good parents not to cure their children by hiding behind some bullshit contrived politically correct garbage. If that happens, are you going to help take care of my disabled autistic child through adulthood? I bet I won't see one high functioning, independant person from neurodiversity coming over to celebrate my child's diversity. My husband and I will be doing it alone, like so many other families of severe to moderate autistic adults. And the "neurodiverse" will keep blabbing on about how autism is not a disability.

If YOUR autism is not "disabling" you, then fine. But don't you dare come and tell other people what to do just because their child falls under the same umbrella diagnosis that you do. It's like someone with a malignant mole telling a person with leukemia not to seek help and embrace their cancer because their mole isn't debilitating.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, I really should start saving the moronic comments that I don't publish. I didn't think people existed who were this stupid (aside from Leitch and Seidel).

Anonymous said...

Watson, I have never heard anyone express themselves as well as you have in relating your own experience of your sons "vaccine-induced brain damage".

Very well said Watson.

watson said...

Many thanks for the feedback, anon. I must admit that I didn’t want to revisit those times again, and it was extremely difficult to write as much as I did. For that reason, I’ve stayed away from autism lists for some years because every time I hear about another child, I can feel the anguish the parents are going through, while re-living my own, over and over again, and it’s too emotionally draining.

But if even one neurodiversity advocate in cyber-space reads this one experience and feels empathy for parents watching their child deteriorate before their eyes, and can imagine the terrifying experience for the child, my hope is that they will perhaps think a little harder before protesting against treatments and therapies. For without them, our son would not have come as far as he has.

I am all for respecting individual differences, and I'd certainly like my son to be valued by society, but for the likes of Amanda Baggs and Kathleen Seidel et al to speak out against treatments and therapies that certainly help many children, such as my son, and cure others, is, quite frankly, evil. There’s no other word for it. That's why I started posting here, because John appears to be the only blogger who is outraged.

My experience is obviously not shared by ND adult and parent activists who appear to be on a Mission to Change the World, and if their aim was solely to change attitudes towards the mentally ill, I would understand. But it is not.

Amanda Baggs, for example, has not embraced her Paranoid Schizophrenia, Manic-depression, Factitious disorder, Schizoaffective Disorder, Dissociative Disorder, Factitious Disorder and Multiple Personality Disorder; she has abandoned them one by one like a snake casting off unwanted skin. But, her Autism diagnosis, is something else, not only does she embrace it, she celebrates it, and encourages parents to celebrate their children’s autism.

How could she possibly know anything about severe autism, or disability for that matter, from a child’s perspective when she has not experienced it, either first hand or even second-hand through a parent’s eyes?

Peggy Napear wrote forty-odd years ago, in her book Brain Child, that when you have a child with a disability, you look at every interaction from three different perspectives - the way you see your child, the way other people see your child, and the way your child sees people. This has been my experience. I have lived my son’s life with him for the last fourteen years. I have trodden every step of the way, seen through his eyes, and experienced his pain.

Activists don't appear to be able to do this. They write mainly about themselves and their experiences, what they want for themselves, how they want the world to change for them.

Noetic mentioned Virgil, whose eyesight had been restored after forty years of blindness, who still couldn’t ‘see’. That doesn’t surprise me. There’s more to sight than just seeing. Perception - what is seen and how it is interpreted by the brain, and integrated with the other senses - would seem to me to be far more important. Virgil had been given his camera back but he had forgotten how to use it. But I would say that if the operation had been available at the time Virgil lost his sight at the age of three, or soon afterwards, his brain would not have lost its ability to interpret what he was seeing, and make sense of it.

And that is why I believe that the earlier children with autism are treated, and therapy started, the better. The brain can heal, and is plastic.

Glen Doman has been proving that since the forties. But even though his methods have been pooh-poohed for decades by the establishment, he continues to make blind children see and the lame walk. Severely disabled children whose parents refused to believe their doctors when they said there was nothing that could be done for them. Children whose parents refused to forget about them, dump them into an institution, and “have another baby”.

The medical profession has always scorned alternative treatments that work, such as the Kenny treatment for polio. They must have seen children that they had turned away in irons, walk. But they didn’t believe - they couldn’t allow themselves to believe.

Why is the Ketogenic diet for epilepsy only tried “as a last resort”, when it cures one third of children with epilepsy?

Nothing has changed. They are protecting their own interests.

And that is why I strongly suspect that the “celebrate and no cure” campaign is being orchestrated by Big Pharma. Instead of the usual 'few' casualties, there were just too many children damaged by vaccines in the nineties. And they, and governments pushing untested, dangerous, one-size-fits-all vaccines, are responsible.

What better, than to get mentally ill adults to do their dirty work for them, and cover it up, just as they tried and failed to cover-up the thalidomide scandal in the sixties.

Missing and misshapen limbs were so much more difficult to hide.

It’s damage control.

Fore Sam said...

Watson, That's a pretty good analysis of Neuroinsanity.
My father beat polio back in the 1930's. The work he had to put into that made him a very fast runner by strengthening his legs. If his parents had thought like Seidel, Leitch and the other nitwits, he would have spent his life on crutches. I don't believe that any parent is that stupid to accept any damage to a child without trying to fix it. Of course, with Leitch, severe stupidity can not be ruled out.

Anonymous said...

Polio wasn't genetic, Foresam. Big difference.

Anonymous said...

John & Watson - you 2 should put your heads together & write a book. you say good stuff & could help alot of people re autism. THE TRUTH!

now i gotta go back & read John's latest blog entry. my husband's 1st reaction was "and as bad as we all think it is, it's probably worse".

watson said...

Fore Sam said...
My father beat polio back in the 1930's. The work he had to put into that made him a very fast runner by strengthening his legs. If his parents had thought like Seidel, Leitch and the other nitwits, he would have spent his life on crutches. I don't believe that any parent is that stupid to accept any damage to a child without trying to fix it.

Yes, it seems that many people completely recovered from paralytic polio if they exercised their limbs instead of following the conventional treatment of immobilizing them in splints and irons.

Some became Olympic medalists like Ray Ewry, Wilma Randolph and Annette Kellerman - or actors like June Allyson, Johnny Weissmuller, and Alan Alda.

How fortunate for them that their parents didn't choose orthodox medicine, or embrace and celebrate their disabilities!

Wilma Rudolph:
http://www.lkwdpl.org/wihohio/rudo-wil.htm
"She was told she had polio, a crippling disease that had no cure. The doctor told Mrs. Rudolph that Wilma would never walk.

But Mrs. Rudolph would not give up on Wilma. She found out that she could be treated at Meharry Hospital, the black medical college of Fisk University in Nashville. Even though it was 50 miles away, Wilma's mother took her there twice a week for two years, until she was able to walk with the aid of a metal leg brace. Then the doctors taught Mrs. Rudolph how to do the physical therapy exercises at home."

"On September 7th, 1960, in Rome, Wilma became the first American woman to win 3 gold medals in the Olympics .

She won the 100-meter dash, the 200-meter dash, and ran the anchor on the 400-meter relay team. "

Anonymous said...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/blake-fleetwood/cho-what-is-the-new-york_b_47113.html

Cho: What is the New York Times Trying to Hide?

Anonymous said...

You two idiots ignored my last post. Polio is NOT genetic!! So don't compare it to Autism! OK?

Fore Sam said...

Anon, Autism is not genetic either.

watson said...

Anonymous said...
You two idiots ignored my last post. Polio is NOT genetic!! So don't compare it to Autism! OK?

Anonymous, perhaps you should do some reading:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/p3m23j3271678254/
Genetic susceptibility to wild and vaccine polio virus: Genotypes and their frequency
Medical Microbiology and Immunology - Issue Volume 166, Numbers 1-4 / November, 1978

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/0306-9877(75)90040-7
Is poliomyelitis a genetically-determined disease? I: A genetic model. - H. V. Wyatt
Medical Hypotheses, Volume 1, Issue 1, Pages 35-42 (1975a)


Geneticists couldn't find genes for autism, that's why only a few years ago they started looking at epigenetics.

Googlybear said...

Anon,

Autism is genetic suseptibility, but there has to be an environmental assault of some kind to trigger it.

Arthritis, cancer, heart disease, diabetes, mental illness, alzheimers, asthma..etc, all have genetic components that make some people more suseptible than others. Are we supposed to succumb to every issue that comes along and shrug our shoulders?

Anonymous said...

Are we supposed to succumb to every issue that comes along and shrug our shoulders?

The ones that aren't a death sentence? Yes!

Googlybear said...

The ones that aren't a death sentence? Yes!

Wow, Anon, this is the most foolish rebuttal I have ever witnessed in my life.

So let me get this straight, if something is not a fatal condition, we should just succumb to it with a shrug? That is really what you believe? I am thinking here either your response was not thoroughly thought out to all its possible conclusions or you are woefully ignorant of the wide range of conditions that can afflict humankind.

Anonymous said...

Googly, Autism is not curable. That's the reality you are ducking! That's why I said YES! You can improve it but you can't cure it!

Googlybear said...

Anon, that is not what you said. Don't start rewritting history when it is right there for anyone to read.

Me: Are we supposed to succumb to every issue that comes along and shrug our shoulders?

You: The ones that aren't a death sentence? Yes!

I mentioned, among other things arthritis and diabetes. You didn't distinguish. It is too bad you have such an apathetic attitude towards human suffering. What if I had mentioned migraines. They are fatal. They just cause alot of pain. Just shrug the old shoulders.

It is not that there isn't a cure for autism, because children are being recovered completely or to at least a better degree than they were before. It is that neurodiversity opposes a cure so they blatantly deny that recovery is possible. Ignoring something or pretending it doesn't exist does not make it go away. I personally know someone whose child is 100% not autistic and the other child went from severe to high functioning. These things do not magically happen. They weren't misdiagnosed either.

What are you so afraid of? Why do you want people to suffer instead of recieve help? Perhaps it isn't so bad for the higher functioning forms of autism. But what about the autistic people who can not get on the computer and advocate for their own situation? What of the ones who can not talk, sign or use any kind of assistive device to speak? Do you speak for them too? Why should I listen to you. I've seen the sad and angry eyes of people who are trapped in their own bodies and at the mercy of strangers. Do you care about them in your fantasy land?

Noetic said...

ForeSam - The title "An anthropologist on Mars" refers to autistic adult Temple Grandin. I thought it was autistics that are meant to lack comprehension of analogies etc? You seem to be very severely afflicted in this area...

Anonymous said...

Anon, that is not what you said.

It is what I meant, GooglyBear. If you can't read between the lines that's not my fault.

You are calling for a cure (a complete recovery) for Autism. It does not exist. That is my root point. Yes things can improve and I don't object to that. But improvement and cure are NOT the same thing!

Got it?

Joeker said...

It wasn't autism that made him walk into VT and kill his peers, but the abuse he suffered from them. Watch his last words, listen to what he had to say, and then make judgement calls. Not before.

Seung-Hui didn't kill them because he was autistic, he killed because he was twisted and warped by peers who delighted in making his life a misery. He wasn't a loner by choice.

Many aren't.

Fore Sam said...

Joker, Autism caused the problem. If he had not been autistic, he would not have endured the abuse.
Autism is mercury induced brain damage, pure and simple. We need to cure all of these brain damaged people before many more of them erupt in this fashion.
You are arguing to put a band-aid on the problem by asking all of society to cater to brain damage. The intelligent solution is to eliminate the brain damage. Then, everyone but the drug companies who caused the problem will be better off.

Googlybear said...

Anon,

Tell that to the parents whose kids are recovered.

I refuse to believe things are hopeless, simply because you give up.

Joeker said...

That right there was like blaming the slavery of the blacks on being black.

Let's see. Cater to brain damage? No. Just to stop harming, hurting, and abusing others for enjoyment. I don't want to band-aid this problem, I want to heal it. You can blame autistic for not being normal, and ignore the bullying and suffering, write it off, pretend it's not a big part of the issue, but quite frankly, it is societies fault for creating these monsters. If he hadn't been abused by his peers when he was young, he wouldn't have gone on a killing spree, and you know it, though you try to cover it, draw attention away from it, and blame it on Autism, on his differences.

I may not agree with your opinion on the scientific side of Autism being caused by mercury, but I will tell you right now; Just who did what, when, where, how, and why?

Cho did it. Of that there is no doubt. His plays have been blamed, video games have been blamed, and now Autism.

The blame lies with the individual, and with what shaped him. Violence, hatred, malice, and apathy molded Cho Seung-Hui into a killer. All things that happened because of his peers. They could've chosen to not beat him, bully him, and turn him into what he became, but they didn't. An therein lies the problem.

You have no idea just what happens to Autistics. You don't know how Autistics see things, the way their minds work, what's within them that makes them who they are... or the horrors they're subjected to by being outcast for not being like everyone else.

Society caters to those with physical handicaps, why shouldn't it cater to those with handicaps of abnormalacy in their minds? Autism is difference. Not some form of brain damage, but brain difference. Check brain-scans. The mind works in mysterious ways.

Oh, and sorry, but band-aids just aren't going to cut it.

Fore Sam said...

Joker, Sorry, society can not be blamed for the medical profession not bothering to test thimerosal for safety. You are overly concerned with the secondary problem of bullying while ignoring the cause of the problem.
Catering to problems reinforces aberrant behavior.

Joeker said...

You don't seem to be reading what I'm writing. I'm not talking about thimerosal, vaccines, mercury, and whatnot.

I'm writing about Why Cho did it.

I have the answers. I've walked the same places of the human mind Cho did. I know pain. I know suffering. I know agonies, shames, and horrors beyond what you seem to be able to comprehend.

You seem to think that basic human rights are catering?

Well, here's a very rude wake-up call: Have you ever been harmed to such an extent as Cho was? Do you know what it was like for him? Have you ever suffered, and been tormented, and subjected to horrible and painful things, and all while being innocent of everything but not knowing just what to do when someone said hi?

He became the Martyr he purported to be, years before, and only carried out because of the hatred he felt for these laughing, smiling people who'd not cared at all as he suffered.

I see some aberrant behavior right here and now. A man, discarding all but what he wants to hear, trying to enforce his desire for conformity and sameness, and blaming medical science while trying to push his way into the limeligh, and making everyone feel sorry for him, for having had an Autistic son.

Fore Sam said...

Joker, I saw your comment on another post that said you do not support Seidel. I apologize for assuming you were part of that cult.
Your last paragraph assessing me is way off. I'd much prefer to shun any limelight and I'm about as non-conformist as you can get.
The only reason I have this blog is because it's a means to spread some information that the media will not share with the general public who need to learn it. It's also an opportunity to dismiss deranged notions expressed by Mrs Seidel and associates.
I agree with what you say about Cho. However, you still don't understand that Cho would have been a diferent person if his autism had been cured. There are millions of children who could grow up with the same problems faced by you and Cho if we can't cure them. Why don't you look into a cure and sue the drug companies who poisoned you?

Anonymous said...

Why don't you look into a cure and sue the drug companies who poisoned you?

Why aren't you suing them, Foresam? You're all talk and no action!

Joeker said...

Cho would have been different if he hadn't had Autism. I would have been different without it. The theory of gravity, by Sir Isaac Newton would've been different if he hadn't seen apples falling, and wondered why. You would've been different if your son had not had Autism. Hitler would have different if he had gotten into art school. The War on terror would have been different if the coalition was a united effort by all of the free world.

But they weren't. At least in the short-term, we should look to ensure the children, with or without Autism, aren't bullied, as that's why many people grow up differently, and not always for the better.

When it comes to Seidel, I don't support her, but to be honest, ANY new study needs scrutiny, and of course, more research. I'm interested in continued results, and more study, as suggested in the report, but to be fair, though it may be fairly early for conclusions, there does seem to be results indicating positive results that ASDs have metal buildups which exacerbate Autistic symptoms. Though, of course, it's too early to draw any definitive conclusions.

I read her side, and the report. She makes valid points, but again, to be fair, any new study comes under fire from a myriad of sources, and most have interests in them. Just because points are valid doesn't mean they're accurate, though.

Well, of course, everything is better with a lawsuit.

Fore Sam said...

Joker, Seidel ignores the fact that Lupron is helping to cure kids. That invalidates everything else that she says.

Joeker said...

Cure them? Or just play games with their hormones? It looks like the usage of Lupron causes hormonal changes. Perhaps this is why they suddenly seem to become cured?

The studies suggest that Lupron may have a synergistic effect on mercury, thus curing them, as hypothesized, but you know what?

It says on the site that Lupron "belongs to a class of drugs called gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonists. It is used to decrease the body’s production of specific hormones, natural chemicals that influence the behavior of certain cells. Because Lupron Depot can reduce the production of both male and female hormones, it is used to treat specific conditions in men, women, and children."

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a drug which is specifically meant to effect hormones. Thus, the results of this Lupron treatment may be but side effects of hormonal tampering.

However, this could be a positive thing, and i'm planning on looking into all of these therapies you listed here, find out just what the hubbub is.

On one hand, I may take them, and be cured! Or, I may be back, and still as myself as I was before. We'll see, perhaps?

Googlybear said...

Looks like Kevin Leicht is getting some flack over his opinion on the Cho incident on his site from the neurodiverse community, of which he is a part of. Someone is accusing him of biased thinking because he is a parent of an autistic child.

http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/?p=544#comments