Saturday, April 28, 2007

Quackbusters Masquerading as Parents

Somebody claiming to be Stephen Barrett commented on my post yesterday. So, I clicked on his name to see where it led and wound up at Barrett's site. I don't know why I didn't figure this out a long time ago. Barrett has links to Autism Diva, Seidel and some jerk who calls himself Bartholemew Cubbins as well as David Gorski, AKA Orac.

Barrett also has links to sites that are not recommended which include ACHAMP, GR, Safe Minds, NAA, MAM, NoMercury, etc.. It looks like this jackass is the source from which all of the Neurodiverse nitwits draw their ammunition to bash parents who want to help their poisoned kids.

Tim Bolen tells us that the nitwit, Barrett is engaged in all of this propaganda to get rid of alternative medicine, thus making more money for mainstream doctors who poison babies. That makes sense. It certainly makes a lot more sense than some crazed parent claiming that curing an autistic child is akin to killing the kid.

I wonder if Estee Klar is paid by Barrett to go on TV and talk about the Joy of autism. Enquiring minds want to know Estee, are you a dumb blond or just playing a role for Barrett? What about Joseph, where did he disappear to? I hear that Barrett may be moving his operation out of the country because of his legal problems. Is Joseph the quackbuster tasked with making that happen? Maybe Joseph is Barrett and has gone into hiding. He had no sense of humor at all about the last entries I made to his blog. Of course, I could be mistaken and Joe might be conjuring up some new scheme to convince parents to let their kids rot in the hell of autism. His crap about curing a kid being akin to killing the kid only went over well with the Neurodiversity cult members, those super naive people who fell for this quackbuster crap disguised as something that was good for autistic people.

The quackbusters are being hunted now. That explains all of the anonymity. Criminals of this sort can't be called cowards for hiding their personal information. That's just being a smart criminal. What asshole who harms autistic people wants to get caight?

Now that the connection to quackbusters is apparent, I wonder what will become of Amanda Baggs. Will Kathleen Seidel keep up the charade of being a concerned parent of a kid with ASD instead of the ruthless cutthroat bitch who does character assassination on good scientists? Will Kathleen go out of her way to check up on poor Amanda? Will Amanda revert to being an acid using schizophrenic now that her fraud has been exposed? Or, will she decide to remain autistic to collect benefits? Will that nitwit lawyer,(I forgot her name) leave Droopy alone? Will Droopy help prosecute Baggs, I hope she has the tapes that disappeared from Youtube.

What about David Andrews? Does anyone think old Sanity Pending is one of the quackbusters or was he just a dupe? I don't think professional child abusers associated with quackbusters would put BA Pending after their name and tell everyone where they lived and went to school. No, they'd be more like Prometheus and NotMercury. They'd hide their identities well.

I wonder how long these assholes of Neurodiversity will try to keep up their charade now that I found their connection to the slimeball, Barrett. Will they explain to the poor young men and women with Asperger's how they used them, as I've been trying to point out for so long? Let's see if any more of the Autism Hub bloggers disappear like Joseph did.

What about Leitch? It's hard to imagine that any smart insiders with the quackbusters would include a dope like him in their inner circle. They probably just spotted how gullible he was and sucked him into doing the computer work to put the Autism Hub together. Maybe I'm giving the quackbusters too much credit though and Leitch is one of their leaders, who knows.

Maybe I'll write some more about these quackbusters but, for now, I'm content that I found the connection. There had to be some evil behind the charade of parents intentionally harmimg autistic children with their deranged rhetoric. Now, Neurodiversity makes some sense to me.

127 comments:

Anonymous said...

Oh you have got us ALL wrong, Foreskin! That was one of the funniest posts you have ever written! Laced with paranoia, propoganda and the usual recipe of lies.

You should go on Howard Stern's show. You'd fit right in, dude!

Anonymous said...

Hey Foreskin - whatcha gonna do when Quackbusters shuts down the DAN! quacks for negligence? Not if - but WHEN!

Fore Sam said...

Cowards, Quackbusters will be out of business soon. If we decent parents are lucky, we'll be able to undo the damage you scumbags have done to autistic adults who fell for your line of BS.

Fore Sam said...

Here's a good example of the absolute and authoritative denial used by the Quackbusters to sway the minds of people on the fence in this debate.
A guy claiming to have Asperger's on Leitch's blog asks if it might not be a good idea to investigate if some chemicals play a role in autism. Leitch replies with:"Sorry John, I disagree that any child will be helped by chelation unless they are metal poisoned and can show that poisoning by a standard test for metal poisoning." This comes from a lowlife who will not have his daughter tested for mercury. He furthers the lie by stating that it must be a STANDARD test for metal poisoning which he knows won't show anything. The scumbag, leitch knows that mercury leaves the blood in a matter of days and that the only test worth a damn is a hair test or a porphyrin test.
So, if this guy listens to the nitwit, Leitch, he misses a chance to have the proper test done to help his kid. And, Leitch tries to tell the world that he won't allow me to comment on his blog because I'm rude. Give your daughter some more bananas, Kev. We're going to destroy you and the Quackbusters and stop you from harming any more children with your lies. Lowlife piece of garbage.

James said...

ATTENTION!
This is a public health announcement.

“The number of children diagnosed with blindness is rapidly increasing. According to a study from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, nearly one in every 150 U.S. children is blind. These numbers are startling and this disability is affecting more and more families. Twenty years ago blindness was a very rare case. Today blindness is becoming a frightening statistic in every community. April is Blindness Awareness Month and I encourage everyone to take this opportunity to learn more about this disability…”

Is anyone concerened about these shocking statistics?
Do you demand answers as to how and why this is happening to our children?

I your answer is "Yes" then you need to READ THIS.

http://bolenreport.net/feature_articles/feature_article058.htm

"No other disease in history has been subjected to the spin that has been put on autism."

Pooch said...

Check out this link about the Quackbusters website. This clown, Stephen Barrett, works out of his basement in this house (which looks as if it is about to fall down).

Who can possibly take this clown seriously?

Anonymous said...

My previous comment went into moderation but not sure if I remembered the link to the dump that Barrett (a "doctor") lives in.

http://www.quackpotwatch.org/quackpots/quackpots/barrett.htm

Anonymous said...

"Now, Neurodiversity makes some sense to me." Also, to us. Thanks for sharing this information. Since your posting we've been reading everything we can find about them. Several years ago we were involved in a battle (one listed on the quack website) & had a experience similar to Ilena's. We never ended up in court but in the end we also won. It was very nasty & we always wondered who was really behind the dirty business & their attempts to discredit us. Then when I first began visiting your blog I had a similar reaction - just who is behind this nastiness - I even asked you this. It didn't make sense that these were actually the parents of autistic kids doing all this to disrupt you. Although there will be some parents who believe their lies - one of our cohorts use to say "People are Sheep". It seems hard for some people to believe that Big Business (pharma) & our govt just doesn't have our best interests in mind (rather their deep pockets).

Fore Sam said...

Anon, If you spend enough time arguing with these lowlifes like I have, you know they are not what they claim to be. This insanity is clear now. They are all shills like I have always thought. I feel bad for the parents and adults with Asperger's who they sucked in. It will be hard for these people to accept how they were suckered by the bastards.

Googlybear said...

This comes from a lowlife who will not have his daughter tested for mercury.

Fore Sam,

Since finding this site, I have been reading more and more of the neurodiversity blogs. Boy, am I getting more and more disgusted. I can not believe how self-righteous these people are. I discovered Big White Hat's website and Left Brain/Right Brain. These are two of the most self-righteous people I have ever read. Their humility seems false and after I read the responses to their blog enteries, I figured they must screen out the dissenters. It seems as though they think that trying to cure children from autism is akin to dooming them to a miserable childhood, that their parents must not accept them and are scarring them for life emotionally, or that we are wiping out their personhood. Our life isn't like that at all. If our child had diabetes and required diet restrictions, shots and alot of medical appointments..etc; nobody would be questioning our parenting commitment to our child.

I've never seen so much spin doctoring in my life. They keep claiming that DAN! doctors are killing children and keep pushing the mainstream medical opinion on vaccines and such. Have they not been informed that one of the leading causes of death in the USA is due to our medical system? You could walk in with one thing and end up with a hospital acquired, antibiotic resistant infection. If I had listened to the insurance covered pediatrician, my child would have gotten a bunch more vaccines and be on a heavy antidepressant which isn't even proven by double-blind studies to be safe or effective for autsitic children. (sorry, couldn't resist the double blind comment) In ND's eyes, that is probably better than natural things like EFA's, B vitamins and probiotics.

Fore Sam said...

Googly, We know that Kevin Leitch tries to train his daughter the way one would train a monkey instead of helping her to use her brain like a human. This is just testament to the fact that these quackbusters disguised as Neurodiverse nitwits will even neglect their own children if it helps to increase drug company profits.
Of course, now that it seems certain that we're dealing with quackbusters and not just stupid parents, we know that they are nothing but lying scoundrels who will say anything at all to promote their hidden agenda. These lowlifes probably don't even have children.

Anonymous said...

Part of the reason the neurodiversity cult thrives is because the largely Asperger's membership are very easily led. I will not include the "low functioning" Amanda Baggs, who as we know is not autistic at all. She just has nothing better to do all day.

Having lived with and cared for an Asperger's adult and come into contact with a number of others, mostly male, I know that because they take things literally instead of interpreting according to context, they get dragged into situations by stronger willed individuals. This is how so many Aspergians have been seduced into the neurodiversity cult. The sad fact is that the poor things don't know what they are doing. They cannot read facial expressions or body language and they interpret speech and writing literally.

They need our help and compassion and they need all the treatement available to them. They have been convinced by some sick people that they do not need to be cured or helped and they have fallen for it.

The very nature of the disorder leaves people with Asperger's unable to discern truth when someone tries to lead them astray.

These anti-curebies should be ashamed, but they never will be because too much money is involved. Never underestimate the power of drug companies.

It is a David and Goliath battle with autistics suffering while supporting the very system which caused them harm in the first place.

Anonymous said...

"Have they not been informed that one of the leading causes of death in the USA is due to our medical system?" Exactly what we keep thinking! I think that the actual stat is not one of the leading causes of death but THE LEADING CAUSE of death in the US is due to doctor/hospital errors.

Anonymous said...

http://www.canlyme.com/quackwatch.html

Dr. Stephen Barrett of Quackwatch Exposed In Court Cases ~

At trial, under a heated cross-examination by Negrete, Barrett conceded that he was not a Medical Board Certified psychiatrist because he had failed the certification exam.

BigTimeSynesthete said...

I never once wanted to be cured of aspergers. I was not influenced to be anti-cure. I am a naturally born neurodiverse chick. I've always rejected the idea to try being normal. The first sight of "Cure Autism Now," deeply offended me. No one has the right to force me into being NT, not even my parents. Otherwise, they might as well be allowed to force homosexuals to be straight. What about deaf people? Why are they allowed to remain deaf, if they want?
i am NOT suffering form autism, I'm suffering from outside bigotry, just like the gays, blacks, women, and Jews once did. I do not need a goddamn $%#@ cure!

Fore Sam said...

Big Time Nitwit, It would be easier to cure you than to foist your deranged opinion on society.

Googlybear said...

Bigtime,

Nobody is foisting a cure on you. I've never known a parent of a deaf child who wouldn't get a coclear implant if the child was a candidate for one.

What do you think is going to happen, Bigtime, when this generation of children hits middle adulthood and 1 in 150 adults is autistic? Do you think our tax system can support so many disabled adults- providing them with state funded medical, housing, disability checks...etc?

I'm not even going to touch the gay/black/woman/jew issue. Whenever someone wants their way anymore they start bellowing about the holocaust or slavery..etc.

It seems every other disorder, disability and disease out there is begging for a cure. Ask a person with MS- they want a cure. Arthritis- cure please. Cerebral palsy- they want a cure. When you start talking about disorders that directly affect the mind, that is why things get sticky. What I've learned, having a mentally ill parent, is that mentally ill people often do not realize until after they have been straightened out that they are mentally ill. I've also noticed this with Alzheimers patients. It is because the human condition is such that we trust our own perception before others, but when our perception is skewed, do we realize it is skewed, do we trust others that it is skewed? If a schizophrenic sees a purple troll in the corner telling them to stop eating, and the troll looks and sounds real, can a sane person convince them that the purple troll does not exist? But inevitably it does not exist and once you get the person on medication, then they see reality for what it is. But they could not see that reality in their mentally ill state.

I do not compare Autism to being gay or jewish or any such thing. I compare it to having a mental problem that skews the perception. YOU may not want to change, and that is fine, you are an adult I am assuming. My child has a disability and as a good parent I will do what needs to be done to rescue this child from a lifetime of sensory issues, dependancy and health problems. And if my child was deaf and could get a coclear implant to alleviate the disability, I would do that too.

sean walton said...

What do you think is going to happen, Bigtime, when this generation of children hits middle adulthood and 1 in 150 adults is autistic? Do you think our tax system can support so many disabled adults- providing them with state funded medical, housing, disability checks...etc?

I'll answer that, Googly.

YES.

Because that's what a caring society should and needs to do.

If you don't agree, then leave the fucking country and go somewhere where there is a government that doesn't give a shit about anyone but their own hip pockets - like North Korea!

Autism is here to stay.

Googlybear said...

Holy Shit, Sean Walton, I asked a hypothetical question and you order me out of the country. Try thinking about the question in a logical way instead of resorting to cheap ad hominem attacks.

This is how our system works. It takes a large base of taxpayers to support one person on social security/disability. Our country is currently heading into a social security crisis with the Babyboomers hitting retirement age. This situation is probably going to drain social security. Now think about the implications of the current autism epidemic coming right on the heels of the babyboomers.

This has nothing to do with my "hip pocket" or my level of caring. I am concerned, because if we have more people needing services than the system can afford these people are going to end up getting shoddy and negligent care. Don't believe me? Go work in a state funded nursing home.

Besides, I thought neurodiversity's position is that autism is not a disability, but a normal difference in brain function. If it is a normal difference, then the majority should not need special services. If it is a disability, then the REAL caring thing a caring society should do is find and provide a cure, so that people are not left to the mercy of a system that may or may not be there for them.

Make no mistake, Mr. Walton, I care. I just don't think that caring involves vomitting out warm, fuzzy platitudes about celebrating and tolerating which provides nothing real, tangible or practical in the long run. It just makes emotional people feel good in the present.

Anonymous said...

The more I read responses from autistics on this blog the more I think what a bunch of losers and users they all are. Aspies are supposed to be intelligent, many of them are, yet they use that intelligence to suck the life and cash out of others instead of using their talents to contribute to society.


It turns my stomach. At least my aspie worked for a living and still does.

I totally believe in supporting the disabled but if you say you are not disabled and do not need help then get to work.

Talk about a caring society. All they seem to care about is themselves.

Interverbal said...

Hello again Googlybear,

“I'm not even going to touch the gay/black/woman/jew issue. Whenever someone wants their way anymore they start bellowing about the holocaust or slavery..etc.”

That no rebuttal of the comparison of autism to those other issues. What you have offered is merely a blanket statement that those who want something compare others to Nazis et al.

“It is because the human condition is such that we trust our own perception before others, but when our perception is skewed, do we realize it is skewed, do we trust others that it is skewed?”

That is an interesting statement. Whom does this apply to? In other words, who gets to decide what is skewed and why?

Do all persons with cerebral palsy want a cure as you suggest? Are you sure? What about other physical disabilities like deafness?

“I do not compare Autism to being gay or jewish or any such thing. I compare it to having a mental problem that skews the perception.”

A basic review of history will show that being gay was an official mental illness up until the 70s? It was in the DSM. It was active campaigning by gay person that changed this. And true to form some people defended the inclusion of being gay in the DSM by claiming that gays were in no fit shape to judge themselves. There were some very interesting journal articles about it at the time.

This leaves people who are seen as mentally ill, with no way out. If they agree to treatment then they are doing the right thing and cooperating with treatment. If they don’t agree they suffer from skewed perception and their objections should be ignored.

This applies to anyone who we can get the label of “mentally ill” to stick to. An interesting example was in a journal based debate over killing young children with significant disabilities in the middle of last century.

The advocate in favor suggested that some parents may object and had a morbid love of their deformed children. The advocate helpfully suggested that such protecting love should be the object of psychiatric concern. This suggestion simultaneously suggested that parents who would not give up their disabled infant/toddler/ preschooler to be killed was mentally ill and therefore wrong and tainted the argument by the psychiatrist who argued against such a measure (after all if the parents were crazy, he was probably crazy too).

Incidentally the psychiatrist, who argued against killing the children, was Leo Kanner, whose name I suspect you have previously heard.

sean walton said...

Try thinking about the question in a logical way instead of resorting to cheap ad hominem attacks.

And you weren't by even asking the question, Googly?

Yes I know that the system is at breaking point. So what do you do? You're suggesting we look at ways of preventing future care so as to reduce the tax burden - such as curing things. Fine - but Autism can't be cured. That's when you lose your caring tone. The only way to fix the system is to put more money into it. Yes, that means higher taxes. Now - you seem to be saying you don't want to. Why? See why I told you to leave the country now? Because you won't fucking pay your way to really fix the problem - and look for excuses.

I repeat - Autism is here to stay. And it needs funding whether you like it or not. So be prepared to fund it - or get the fuck out of the country!

Talk about a caring society. All they seem to care about is themselves.

Anonymous, if you did your research you'll know that people with AS are inherently self centred. So they can't help that! Put up with it!

Anonymous said...

Quackbusters will be out of business soon.

No they won't. When we get a Democrat for President they'll get government backing and bye bye DAN! for experimenting with children!

Googlybear said...

Anon,

I don't think it is fair to make assumptions about all people with autism based on some comments on this board. I think some people get hooked on being part of a "special community", for whatever their reasons. Sometimes they are lonely people, or they find that the special needs community will have lowered expectations of them.
----------------------------

Interverbal,

Here is my rebuttal on autism vs homosexuality. The majority of homosexuals have the ability to take care of themselves because the majority are not impaired any more than the average population. Moral dogma had more to do with them being considered mentally ill. Autism is different in that the majority of autistics are in need of disability services they can not survive without. Making it a disability. If you put my child in a regular classroom with no aide, there is going to be big trouble. Not all people firmly on the spectrum will grow up to need services, but that is the minority.

If someone hears a voice telling them to drown all their children in a bathtub so their kids can get to heaven. There is a level of mental illness going on there that needs to be treated. To me, this is not a "rights" issue or the DMS-IV getting it wrong again. I've discussed that I had a schizophrenic parent. I could have been one of the casualties like Andrea Yates children. Until treatment was "forced" on my mother, she was seeing some kind of hallucination that was telling her that my sister and I needed to be chopped up. This was not normal behavior for my normally over solicitous and protective mother. Fortunately, she was not the custodial parent and this did not happen on one of our regularly scheduled visits. Another time she held a knife to my sister's eye and threatened to cut it out. This was years later when we were both grown, and even this incident could not convince the CA authorities to force her back on her medication because she had "rights". But the catch 22 is that mentally ill people have to decide to get treatment, but how do they decide when they don't realize they are mentally ill?

Granted, autism is different. But leaving my child with the impairments of autism simply because someone claims the DMS-IV has been wrong in the past, or who is to determine what is normal or that autism is not a disability is foolishness on my part.

My question to you: Is autism a disability or not?

Fore Sam said...

Anon, Don't you think there are cops with autistic kids? We can bypass the fed's if we can interest some cops in your Medical Fraud. Maybe we can check with the Mafia and see if they have any autistic children. It might be interesting to see how they would react.

Googlybear said...

Sean Walton,

Why don't you get the fuck out of the country, because you obviously have no comprehension of what democracy and freedom of speech means. Democracy means everyone gets some kind of voice in this country and freedom of speech means everyone gets their say whether it is agreed with or not. So who are you to continually tell me to leave the country I was born in and have every right to remain in.

You admit the system is at a breaking point, then you attack me like I have the ability out of my own pocket to fix the situation. Believe me, my child may be one of the ones needing tax payer support. What you seem to be missing in this, is that if we get to the point where taxes go so high the financial squeeze starts to hurt, the people who are going to lash out en masse in this country will be those who have no stake in the autism epidemic- you know, the majority of people who do not have autism or an autistic child. Perhaps things will go the way you want and perhaps they won't, such is the problem with democracy, things can change. You would rather keep peddaling your hopelessness which leaves people caught at the mercy of the system. I prefer to rescue my child from autism so that we do not have to gamble on what kind of funding and care may or may not be available in the future. Nothing is certain, not even a social security check.

OF course you said that autistic people are inherently selfish. Nice of you to slap that stereotype on them. that will go a long way in creating public acceptance of people on the autism spectrum. OR perhaps you were just transfering your own opinion of your pompous, arrogant self onto others.

sean walton said...

Googly, when people need help - you help them. You talk about freedom and democracy and yet you reject the inherent right for those with AS to be selfish. How about you choose which side you're on because you're being a hypocrite with that two sided attitude!

This is where Interverbal is right in a way. Denying an AS person the right to be selfish is the same as denying a homosexual the right to engage in sexual relations the way that they do.

And you are also denying the system the help it needs by claiming a general financial squeeze! And you're saying that people with no stake in the whole thing would fight back? If they did they'd be howled down by human rights protesters and so they should be! I don't think they'll want to be made to look like fools like that.

I was born in America to. I don't care if you were or not. Pay your taxes. I'll do it if they go up to support the system. That's the AMERICAN thing to do. So you should be prepared to do it as well. If you won't - then I don't care if you were born here or not. You are the sort of American that real Americans don't want! Believe in true freedom - and allow everyone freedom of choice. And if it costs money to do it, that's the price we have to pay! HAVE to pay.

You won't. You've admitted that. So please leave.

Fore Sam said...

Sean, If Cho had been identified and cured, 32 innocent people would still be alive today. You sound like a raving lunatic and I'd feel a lot safer if you were cured. After you were cured, you'd understand the absolute stupidity of wanting to go through life with a mercury damaged brain. Please sek help ASAP.

sean walton said...

I don't need help.

Googlybear said...

Sean Walton,

I'm beginning to have no idea where you are coming from. I am thinking there is a reading comprehension problem. Please stop building strawmen and knocking them down, like some petulant toddler.

Who is denying autistic people the right to be selfish or NT people for that matter? Nobody. Who are you to say who is a real American. Read my post carefully, I am not against support for people with disabilities. The system is overtaxed right now and there is going to be a crisis. This has nothing to do with my patriotism, it is just an OBSERVATION. And as a concerned parent who loves my child, I want my child to be recovered from autism so that my child is not left at the mercy of a system that may fail. This has nothing to do with my compassion level, it has to do with observable fact.

Second, I am not "double sided". Here is my side. I care deeply about people, I have worked in the business of caring for people in a medical/services capacity. I know what kind of shit goes on in group homes, nursing homes and institutions. Those of us trying to fight it are quickly run over, mowed down and worn out. You are obviously able to function independantly. Do you even care what the system looks like for lower or moderately functioning adults? I DO NOT WANT MY CHILD AT THE MERCY OF THAT SYSTEM. I want to see people cured or improved of disabling conditions because I care about people.

You in fact are the one who is really against autistic people. Sorry to say it. You claim that autistic people are selfish- a blanket statement, a stereotype. You didn't say some were, or that people have the right to be selfish- you just made a blanket statement that they inherently are. YOu patronize autistic people with your attitude that they all need help and that everyone else in America had better help them, period. YOU never stop to consider that perhaps there are people with autism who are not selfish, who want to be self supporting..etc. You, sir, are the one with the bad attitude. Your attitude says it all. Leave people in a pit of disability and throw some money at them soothe your conscience. Did you ever stop to consider that REAL FREEDOM is the freedom to make ones own decisions, something that is denied daily to mentally disabled adults who live in facilities. YOu don't care about that do you, even though a cure would set them free to live a life on their own terms.

Before you respond to me again, pull your head out of your ass and stop making crap up. Got it. Oh yea, according to you selfishness is a constitutional right, so hypothetically any citizen of the USA has all the right in the world to remain here and oppose tax increases. Keep that in mind before you debate yourself into another hole with your double standards.

Anonymous said...

Hey foresam,

I paid nearly $200,000 in income tax last year, on $1.6 million in earnings (ooh how I love
Republicans, thanks Bush & Co.). I'm also autistic. Where do I fit in this "argument" between your commenters?

Fore Sam said...

Anon, You tell me where you fit. Many autistics will never earn a dime. Either you're much higher functioning than most or perhaps you earned your money servicing Congressmen while bending over.

Interverbal said...

Hello Googlybear,

Thank you for sharing a piece of your life. I paid attention carefully. I have some comments for you below.

“Here is my rebuttal on autism vs homosexuality. The majority of homosexuals have the ability to take care of themselves because the majority are not impaired any more than the average population.”

So, let me see if I can correctly summarize your argument. The difference you propose is that majority of gays can care for themselves, whereas the autistic person can not, and therefore my comparing them is invalid.

A few questions then:

Are we fairly comparing adults to adults and children to children?

Are there examples in the research literature of children who were gay or considered in danger of being gay, treated, but not granted the right of informed consent?

What is the rate of gay adults who require social security or additional help to live compared to autistic adults? What does the research say?

“If you put my child in a regular classroom with no aide, there is going to be big trouble.”

How certain are you?

“Not all people firmly on the spectrum will grow up to need services, but that is the minority.”

What does the research say?

”But leaving my child with the impairments of autism simply because someone claims the DMS-IV has been wrong in the past, or who is to determine what is normal or that autism is not a disability is foolishness on my part.”

There are many things a parent can do to help a child with autism grow. A number of such people’s names have appeared on this site. They do not fail to help their children merely because they criticize biomedical treatments. Perhaps a visit to their blogs would be worth a moment or two of your time, even if it is only to conform that you strongly disagree with them.

”My question to you: Is autism a disability or not?”

I would cite autism as a difference. However, some children with autism do have other physical medical issues that can and should be treated if these can be properly diagnosed e.g.(Seizures).

Also, the educational needs of children with autism can mean that extra effort goes into making reasonable accommodations and modifications in a child’s environment that is different than what is needed for a typically developing child. All this can take time, effort, and money.

james said...

Sorry Jonathan, I know you're trying very hard but there's only one Kev Leitch.

Googlybear, This man is an aspiring Kevin Leitch who does other peoples dirty work and goes on forums he would not be welcome on, under different aliases to spy on their members.
He's like a dog with a bone and won't go away until you ignore him.

Interverbal said...

James,

Which forusm do I go on under different aliases? I have only one alias, which is no real alias at all as I do not make an effort to hide my real name.

So far you have not attacked what I have said, you have attacked me. Any contribution you may have is being buried under your personal attacks. Please consider.

Also, anyone can ignore me or enagge with me as it seems best to them. Whatever seems best to them.

Googlybear said...

The difference you propose is that majority of gays can care for themselves, whereas the autistic person can not, and therefore my comparing them is invalid.

Precisely. Autism is a disability.

I'm not really going to get into what the literature and studies say. There is a world of difference between high functioning aspbergers or high functioning PDD and low functioning, non-verbal ASD.

How certain are you?

What do you mean how certain am I? You act like I don't know my kid at all. My child has extremely, extremely bad problems with hyperactivity, impulsivity and attention span. We've tried every possible class senario.

There are many things a parent can do to help a child with autism grow.

What makes you think I am not one of those parents? My child is in 4th grade, I'm not a wide-eyed newbie parent. I also read alot of the neurodiversity blogs. In my course of looking for biomed blogs, I ran across neurodiversity. Then I found this site and thought it was a hate site at first, then realized it was the site of a parent who was more frustrated than I am at reading the attacks on DAN and biomed parents.

Also, the educational needs of children with autism can mean that extra effort goes into making reasonable accommodations and modifications in a child’s environment that is different than what is needed for a typically developing child.

All that to dance around saying that Autism is a disability that requires special education services. Your use of the phrase 'typically developing child' gave you away though. If a child is not developing typically, then there is a problem going on. It is like deep inside you know what we I am saying is true and you know that autism is a developmental disability, and yet, for whatever reason, you refuse to acknowledge it. I feel like I've gone through the Looking Glass to nonsense land.

sean walton said...

I am not against support for people with disabilities. The system is overtaxed right now and there is going to be a crisis.

Googly, in two sentence you just contradicted yourself. You claim support for people with disabilities, yet you oppose the high taxes that are needed to support it!

So which is it?

And think carefully before you answer.

Googlybear said...

Sean Walton,

I can no longer converse with you, and I am going to tell you why. You do not understand the concept of a hypothetical. I think you are very childish in your thinking.

I did not contradict myself. I stated my position and I stated what I think is happening in our society. Because I make an observation about something, does not mean I support it or am the cause of it. It means as a concerned parent I have to be realistic about what possibilities might happen in the future. Neither you nor I nor any single citizen is powerful enough to change a system.

You are like a child in a sandbox. You state how you feel everyone should play, and as soon as someone does not play by your rules, you order them out. The only person here who contradicted themselves is you. You have asserted that autistic people have the right to be selfish and insinuated that that selfishness encompasses living off the system and everyone else's right is to live with it. In the next breath, you say that taxpayers, who support the system, have no right to be in your opinion, selfish and if they don't agree with your opinion they had better get out of their own country and live somewhere else. Even though, the only taxpayer you have been talking to is me, and I have stated twice that this is not personal, just observation. Also, you contradicted yourself on your opinion of the autistic community. You obviously view them, as a whole, as selfish people and this is stereotyping. You give a negative stereotype to a whole group of people whose side you claim to be on and claim I am not on their side. I am on their side, I want to see them recovered from a pervasive disability so they don't have to rely on a system that may or may not be there for them. When will people like you learn that enslaving others to a system and leaving them disabled is not kindness and mercy.

I think you have a screw loose somewhere, seriously.

Anonymous said...

"And think carefully before you answer."

You crack me up!!!

Could your ego get any bigger ?!?

Interverbal said...

Googlybear,

“Precisely. Autism is a disability.”

Let’s name another category. Some boys have health problems like asthma etc. Some of these health problems may occur at notably higher rate in boys compared to girls. Moreover, there are more boys in the lowest IQ ranges than girls. Further still, boys learn to talk and the most elementary of social skills somewhat slower than girls. What’s more boys may have some different educational needs than girls. They may even be split up form them at certain times. This requires extra expense, time, and money, more so than if there were no boys. Is boyhood then a disability for these reasons?

”I'm not really going to get into what the literature and studies say. There is a world of difference between high functioning aspbergers or high functioning PDD and low functioning, non-verbal ASD.”

Your idea here, may not be a very good one. It is dangerous to shut one’s eyes to what the research says. And what the research says is that person with autistic disorder, aka childhood autism aka Infantile Autism, can naturally progress to the point where they lose their diagnosis. That is a pretty critical fact to know.

”What do you mean how certain am I?” You act like I don't know my kid at all. My child has extremely, extremely bad problems with hyperactivity, impulsivity and attention span. We've tried every possible class senario.”

That’s a fair response. I do not wish to challenge your knowledge of child which I have no doubt exceeds any other person on this planet. I simply misread your question, I thought the “my” was an “a”. My question was based on my misreading. Please excuse my question.

”What makes you think I am not one of those parents? My child is in 4th grade, I'm not a wide-eyed newbie parent. I also read alot of the neurodiversity blogs. In my course of looking for biomed blogs, I ran across neurodiversity.”

Those parents do not engage in biomed. You have indicated that you do. That makes you unlike the parents I named. That said, perhaps there are other similarities between you. I will not assume that there are not merely because you have not spoken about them. Also, I do not accuse you of being a newbie parent. If you are already familiar with ND blogs that great, I am only happy to hear it.



“Then I found this site and thought it was a hate site at first, then realized it was the site of a parent who was more frustrated than I am at reading the attacks on DAN and biomed parents.”

You already know that a lot of different ideas exist in autism. Some of these ideas are dearly held. They are attached to the thing many people value most, their children. I hate attacks upon people, almost all certainly have the very best of intentions. However, I draw a hard line between confusing attacking people and attacking ideas. Ideas are fair game, the fact that they are dearly held, is no defense at all. Moreover, if one sees a problem they are obligated to speak up. Perhaps then one can review this blog. Are being attacked or ideas? If it is people, then your first assessment may be correct; frustration would not be a justification. Of course, this is your assessment to make.

”All that to dance around saying that Autism is a disability that requires special education services.”

Actually I thought it was a very direct way of answering your previous question.

As to what you think it currently proves….. The special ed numbers of the number of children being served in the autism category are three times lower than the rate of autism. To be sure, some of those kids have PDD-NOS and Aspergers, but some of those kids need services and are served under the autism category too. What about all the rest?

“Your use of the phrase 'typically developing child' gave you away though. If a child is not developing typically, then there is a problem going on.”

Did it give me away or are you assuming something? By typically developing, all I mean is developing in the most average way. There still could be a plethora of problems in a typically developing child. Also, sometimes the most exceptional children with IQ’s in the 160+ range have unusual developmental patterns as well, yet they are not diagnosable with anything. Some of these kids even have IEP’s, people forget that special education serves kids both with disabilities and with exceptional intelligence. They are served in special classes, with specially trained teachers. Their education accrues additional expense and effort. Their education would be easier if were more typical, it would certainly save tax dollars and valuable time. Moreover such children have difficulty with social skills and working in groups. Things like leadership, being a good team player, and good general social skills take up a fair amount of time in the typical curriculum. These are the things that some of these children are worst at. Hoe then, should we consider such children?




“It is like deep inside you know what we I am saying is true and you know that autism is a developmental disability, and yet, for whatever reason, you refuse to acknowledge it.”

I think deep down, you really don’t believe that.

“I feel like I've gone through the Looking Glass to nonsense land.”

There is lots of nonsense in autism. One of the first danger signs to me, is when one refuses to look at research.

Googlybear said...

Interverbal, if we got into research your comments in this thread would exceed a novel. you would make a good politician, you have a slick way about you. you talk around things. I'm much more direct. My child is disabled. No if's, and's or but's. We are not talking about gender differences or even the all encompassing money issue which I did not bring up; yet you and watson are so hung up on. Special services indicates that the person has special needs. You know what I am talking about. This is not gifted enrichment. People tend to want to compare and compare when they don't want to face facts. Compare to slavery, the gay community, gifted services..etc.

I feel that the definition of autism is getting more and more bogged down and stretched. Now it seems to encompass smart people with poor social skills who work in fields like engineering and you hear about some 40 year old who suddenly is diagnosed and he now has an excuse to whine about how picked on and misunderstood he is. Being part of a minority is the new American past time, seems alot of people want to fit into the American dream of ordering others on what is PC behavior in their presence. I read something recently that was talking about all the 'autistic' characters in television; examples: Dr. House (House) and Charlie Epps (Numb3ers), to name a few. So pretty much, autism is getting glossed over with the pc picture of an extremely smart person who has a few social abnormalities. Autism spectrum has become the new 'go to' disability, that ADHD used to be. About 9 years ago, I recall that alot of adults were self diagnosing with ADD and ADHD to explain why they couldn't hold a job or didn't feel like continuing their college education. it is a bunch of malarky and it obscures the issue. By the way, if my child was stictly ADHD, I would still cure them.

I have a question for you, if mainstream medicine came up with a definate, double blind, pharmaceutical cure and you were the parent of a child with low functioning autism who was soon facing an institution placement. Would you take the cure or just celebrate their disability? Would it matter to you one way or another what the high end of the spectrum looked like?

I still have no idea how you can integrate the idea that autism is part of one's personal makeup and personality; while claiming some people spontaneously outgrown their genetically determined personality? I still think a better answer is for some reason those people's bodies were able to kick in and heal themselves. If we could find out how and why, we would be closer to a cure for all, not just the lucky few.

Joeker said...

Autism isn't hell. That's what you, your message, and the abuse we suffer from others is.

You don't know hell until you've lived it, and let me tell you. It was never AS that was the problem; Just my peers, for hating what was different.

sean walton said...

I can no longer converse with you, and I am going to tell you why. You do not understand the concept of a hypothetical. I think you are very childish in your thinking.

Hypotheticals reveal a lot about people's thinking. You revealing yourself to be totally hypocritical and now you are running away from my question.

Which do you believe?
1. You support help for people with disabilities
2. You oppose the high taxes that are needed to support it

And it can't be both. One or the other.

And the reason I told you to leave the country is because you refuse to allow the disabled the freedom to choose to live with their afflictions. A freedom that we are fighting for in the War on Terrorism. A freedom that you seem to be opposing.

Googlybear said...

ROFLOL!!! The War on Terror is being fought to preserve people's right to remain disabled? What kind of nonsense is this. Save the drama for your mama. I suppose next you will be railing that soldiers are personally dying to secure your freedom to be selfish.

Funny how you get to define selfishness. Life isn't as black and white as your thinking. It is one thing for me to say that I support a tax increase to support all the disabled, because it benefits my child. Does that make me selfish or humane? Depends on who you talk to. If you talk to another person whose child benefits from social security, I am humane. If you ask someone in the 'murky middle' who finds that the increase in taxes makes it near impossible to keep a roof over their head and food on the table at the same time, I am selfish.

Walton, nobody is an island. Part of being a community is considering how your own actions impacts it. Theoretically, selfishness is a freedom, but how does it benefit the whole to be selfish? Is a parent struggling financially to keep a family afloat any less important than a disabled person needing services? Depends on which person you talk to. People are intrinsically survival instinct creatures. I can say 'why yes, put the hurt on, increase taxes until the public screams so we can support all these things'. It is what might need to be done, but I fear there will be a public fallout in the end. Which is why it is most humane to cure or recover as best as possible those who are disabled so they are not dependant on the shifting winds of politics and public sympathy to get a lifetime of needs met.

Joeker said...

Wow googly, good job taking bits and pieces. Fighting for rights to remain disabled? Tell that to a parapalegic. (Just watch your crotch)

Would you rather the child, without the tax benefit, go without therapy or help, and continue on, to eventually kill someone or commit suicide? Or would you rather they get help, and become well-adjusted members of society?

Do your research on Autism before coming back. And research only NEUTRAL material.

As for personality, it is how we develop that determines who we are. Try seeing it all in a different lens than everyone else.

As for survival? We aren't base, loathsome, take-the-old-sick-weak-or-young creatures we may once have been. There is such a thing as compassion, though your lack of it seems to suggest otherwise.

Interverbal said...

Googlybear,

I think there is more than a single book's worth of discussion in terms of autism research, but I was only after some much more basic discussion and about a very narrow topic. A few sentences at the most would suffice.

As to me being a good potential politician, I am afraid I have no interest in politics. Politicians tend to focus on rhetoric or the art of speaking convincingly. I care about science and logic. These are two very different things. Also, please understand that I when I write, I do so in a way that best communicates my whole thought. This is neither an attempt to be indirect or long winded.

As to the issue of money, I mention as others do in fact bring it up. However, it only makes up a tiny part of what I say. I hardly view it as a hang up.

“Special services indicates that the person has special needs. You know what I am talking about. This is not gifted enrichment.”

I am afraid this is incorrect. Gifted education is part of special education. It is written into the same national laws that legislate services for children with specific disabilities. Gifted children meeting certain criteria can be IEP’ed for that reason alone. An elementary review of special education literature will quickly show this to be true.

I could also mention that some children have a disability, but also an area of rare gift. There is even term for this, “twice exceptional”. Such children may require IEP provisions for one or both areas. Several years a prestigious special education journal ran a whole edition on this subject.

“I feel that the definition of autism is getting more and more bogged down and stretched.”

What do you think prevalence rates would look like if your thought is correct?

“Being part of a minority is the new American past time, seems alot of people want to fit into the American dream of ordering others on what is PC behavior in their presence.”

That seems like an unusually cynical response. Please elaborate when you have a chance.

“I read something recently that was talking about all the 'autistic' characters in television; examples: Dr. House (House) and Charlie Epps (Numb3ers), to name a few. So pretty much, autism is getting glossed over with the pc picture of an extremely smart person who has a few social abnormalities.”

Are eccentric autistic like characters a new phenomena in movies and television? Are you sure? I think I could easily name dozens of examples spanning all decades since the 1950s. If we allow novels then I could add names before the 1900s like Sherlock Holmes and the eponymous “Candide”. In acient history I could add Archimedes to that list.

The archetype of the smart person with little social skill, has been here many centuries. James Clerk Maxwell, whose work in physics in still important today, had something to say about this stereotype in the late 1880s. There is nothing new here.

“I have a question for you, if mainstream medicine came up with a definate, double blind, pharmaceutical cure and you were the parent of a child with low functioning autism who was soon facing an institution placement. Would you take the cure or just celebrate their disability? Would it matter to you one way or another what the high end of the spectrum looked like?”

That’s a curious question since the trend has been to close and get rid of institutions.

To actually answer the question, If the treatment would help my child acquire new skills and build up areas of former weakness, then yes, I would very likely take the treatment.

If the treatment was dangerous, then I would not pursue it.

If the treatment removed areas of current strength, then I would have to carefully weigh the specific risks vs. benefits.

I would try to acquire my child’s opinion if at all possible (It may not be).

“I still have no idea how you can integrate the idea that autism is part of one's personal makeup and personality; while claiming some people spontaneously outgrown their genetically determined personality?”

That’s because I have never emitted this statement. It is your invention not mine. I have been especially careful not to say “personality”.

What I have said is this, not all children with autism when they are very young, resemble the adult they become in terms of behavior. Ad they mature they sometimes begin act quite different. They gain certain skills and they cease to use other behaviors they may have used at age 4.

Googlybear said...

Joeker, I see there is yet another person with a reading comprehension problem.

Let me clear the air because you and Watson have problems with abstract thinking. I am all for disabled people getting all the services they need to live full lives and be as independant as possible. I also feel that the greater compassion is to develop cures both alternative and traditional to help people partially or fully recover as they are able, so they can live life to the fullest and not have to be enslaved to whatever level of services the political powers of the day deem appropriate, which I have no control over.

Joeker, try going back and reading Watson's post first, which mine was a rebutal to.

This is what Watson said;
And the reason I told you to leave the country is because you refuse to allow the disabled the freedom to choose to live with their afflictions. A freedom that we are fighting for in the War on Terrorism.

The war on terrorism has nothing at all to do with fighting for the rights of the disabled to remain disabled as Watson claims. he has an egocentric view on life, in that he only sees things from his own perspective and situation. A one track mind if you will. You and Watson claim that I am not a compassionate person. But in fact, I percieve both of you to not be compassionate. Sure, you are compassionate about people whom you deem to be like you, but that is because it only furthers your personal interests. In fact, Watson as good as admitted that he is a selfish person and everyone else had just better live with it or get out of the country. You have no compassion for anyone except those whose situation ensures support of your own and no forsight into what a real crisis might look like in this country if the social security system gets too inverted. And what really pisses me off, neurodiveristy is actively fighting against measures being made to recover children either fully or at least partially which would allow them to not have to be dependant on a system that may fail in the future. That is real selfishness right there and a huge lack of compassion.

Googlybear said...

Interverbal,

I consider group homes and nursing homes to be the equivalent of institutions. Under the homey exterior and fluffy talk, they are institutions through and through. Group homes of higher functioning individuals not so much, but lower functioning many times they might as well be in an institution, the attitude and quality of life is just about nearly the same. Nursing homes are horrible places, plain and simple. The things families don't know or realize, stomach turning. I could rest easier with autism if I didn't fear that my child will grow up and end up at the mercy of one of these places one day.

Yes, there has always been the stereotypical figure in literature of the person who is highly intelligent and socially inept. I take umbrage with it becoming the pervading view of what autism is. People tend to think that my child is just really smart and purposely being anti-social because of some personality deficit or intentional act on my child's part. It also makes people think that autism is not a disabling condition, which it is for a good portion of autistic people. Since the high functioning types and adult self-diagnonsed are the most verbal and most able to care for themselves, it doesn't get the lower functioning and non-verbal opinion out there. How do you know that a non-verbal adult still in diapers with sensory issues so extreme that they can barely function doesn't want the cure that the higher functioning are fighting against? I've personally worked with these non-verbal people and care deeply about them.

As for prevalance rates, I think autism is actually being over diagnosed right now. I think it was under diagnosed in the past. I've worked with quite a few people who were diagnosed as mentally retarted for unspecified reasons who would have been diagnosed autistic had they been born in the past 15 years. I still think there has been a marked increase since the '90s due to various factors triggering genetic predispositions. You can usually see the predispositions in family members. My ASD dd is so much like me, that I am almost positive I would have ended up with autism if the right environmental assaults had taken place. Looking at it the other way, my dd would not be autistic if I had known to avoid certain environmental assaults.

sean walton said...

The war on terrorism has nothing at all to do with fighting for the rights of the disabled to remain disabled

It has EVERYTHING to do with FREEDOM OF CHOICE, Googly! And that includes the freedom of choice of the disabled! You don't support that? You don't support freedom of choice?

And you wonder why I have no compassion for you!

And you're still ducking my question.

Joeker said...

My apologies, but I did read his post. I read the one you pointed out before posting.

Let me make things clear, since you seem to be one for clarity.

You obviously have no idea what it means to have Aspergers, to be autistic. You aren't aware of what Autistics and Aspies think. Now, here's what I think about all this stuff you've written.

You're claiming all these things, but when it comes right down to it, you speak of recovering the children, and in support of CAN, and other curebies, whom have nought but the elimination of people who are different at heart.

You see, CAN doesn't want to help Autistics and Aspies, it wants to completely eliminate them, past, present, future, sweep us under a rug, because we're not them.

What would be good is to teach, not torture. Educate, not electrocute. Forcing people to become something they're not... vile.

I am well aware of those at the lowest end, and I believe they need love, time, attempts to communicate. Reach out, rather than speak for.

We should focus on contacting them, greeting them, meeting them, helping them, not using painful or damaging practices to turn them into puppets.

We see the world differently, experience it in ways you don't understand, and you only wish for us to become like you, normal, tactful, all the things that every other person is. We live our lives, and we are coloured by our experiences. There is no way to make us gain the social skills we didn't get, no way to take back our dignity after our pasts, no way to reach out and turn us into what you feel we should be.

Failing this, trying to make us into you, CAN and others are working on developing pre-natal tests, so you can weed out autistics, running a Eugenics plan, like the Aryan master race, only it's about conformity and normalacy.

You're claiming to be all about disabled people getting all the services they need to live full lives as independantly as possible.

But you claim that Autism needs "recovery." Please.
I am me. There is no normal person tucked away in here. You won't find one. I am myself. There is no one else in here, only me. I am alone in my head. I am who I am. I'm a writer, a poet, people say nice things about me. I am shy, quiet, people tell me I'm a good listener. I am a shoulder to cry on. I am the person who rests between my ears, and behind my eyes. I live my life, and appreciate all the beauty I see, all the things most take for granted. I have come within momentws of an excruciating death. But I am still here.

I have Aspergers. I call myself an Aspie proudly. I exist. And I'm not going to leave, and have someone who is both me and not me take my mind and life.

Cure me, or kill me. They're much the same, but I'd rather die. I couldn't live with being a stranger to myself.

You want a lack of compassion? Come to my town, come and see me, come and take a tour of my life, and see what compassion I got. I am compassionate to some, yes, but if you knew what compassion I got growing up, you'd vomit, cry, be horrified, or would disbelieve every bit of it.

When it comes down to it, I think I, if not Watson as well, have every right to be selfish every now and then. I lost much more than blood in my childhood.

Should I perhaps go into a long and detailed description, or just leave it at "Eight years of a living hell." Your choice.

Googlybear said...

Sean Walton,

I am not answering your questions to your satisfaction because they are stupid questions. But here we go:

I don't want to get into a political discussion about the 'War on Terror' because this forum is not for that. Simply put, it is a war being fought by an administration that is out of control. It is draining our country's resources and needlessly causing the deaths of our soldiers, many of whom are young and deserved a chance at a life. It has more to do with power mongering and oil than anyone's right to do anything. I find it distrubing that you have not once expressed remorse about those who die and are so self-centered that you think they are dying for your little cause. Go ask a soldier if he is willing to die so someone can choose to remain disabled and he won't even know what you are talking about. Get off the net, get out of the house and meet a wide range of people, it would benefit your egocentric life view. End of discussion. Do not ask me one more thing about it.

I support people who are really disabled getting social security and other gov't funded support services. I don't support people on welfare who can work, staying on welfare. Therefore, IF someone has a cure available to them then I do not support them refusing it in order to live off of the system. For instance, if someone weighs 600 lbs and is living off disability, I think they should lose weight and get back into the work force. That being said, at this time there is no definate cure for autism. Some people recover from the current biomed therapies available, some partially recover and some do not. The therapies are very costly and out of the reach of disabled autistic adults living on social security. So I can't say I expect anyone who is an adult to get cured. If someone is disabled but supports themself, I don't care what they choose to do or not to do. In the end, I would prefer to see people who can not live independantly with their disability recovered so that they have the freedom to live life without being enslaved to the system which will keep them in poverty, leave them at the mercy of others and teach them to be lifelong dependants. That is compassion. Deal with it.

Interverbal said...

“I consider group homes and nursing homes to be the equivalent of institutions. Under the homey exterior and fluffy talk, they are institutions through and through.”

I have studied group homes and I have studied institutions. They do not seem particularly similar to me, not even for individuals who require more care. This is not to say that there are that horrible things have not happened at group homes as well.

“Yes, there has always been the stereotypical figure in literature of the person who is highly intelligent and socially inept. I take umbrage with it becoming the pervading view of what autism is.”

This represents the life of some autistic persons. It is the daily reality for them and when such persons speak of their lives; this is what it looks like.

Family members of children with autism who are younger or require more significant care goes the other way. They talk about how awful autism is and how much help their child requires. More than one person with autism is horrified and rejects such as misrepresenting what autism is. There is a conflict of view about what autism is, there is a lot of strong feeling son both sides.

“How do you know that a non-verbal adult still in diapers with sensory issues so extreme that they can barely function doesn't want the cure that the higher functioning are fighting against?”

You can’t prove a negative.

“I've personally worked with these non-verbal people and care deeply about them.”

Me too, so, has certain autistic people.

”As for prevalance rates, I think autism is actually being over diagnosed right now. I think it was under diagnosed in the past.”

I agree. I have done a lot of work on my own blog to this effect.

Googlybear said...

Joeker,

Most of the biomed parents I know are against eugenics. Alot are disgusted with the course that Autism Speaks is taking which focuses mostly on finding genetics to determine whether a person is autistic. The reason, I and others, are against this because of what has happened with the Down's Syndrome population. Specifically, prenatal discovery frequently results in pregnancy terminations. I am against this.

Everyone has the "right to be selfish" and everyone is at some point. I thought it was hypocritical of Walton to accuse me of selfishness and pretty much tell me I should leave the country, insinuating I don't have a right to be selfish. All the while asserting his right to selfishness.

You also would find it interesting to know that it took awhile for my child to be diagnosed because we are so much alike I didn't realize there was a problem. I don't anticipate biomed interventions erasing her personhood, or taking away her special interests. We originally started going to a DAN doctor because of her ADHD symptoms which are actually more disabling then her autism symptoms. She also has alot of comorbid health issues. In addition, I don't see anything wrong with toning down or getting rid of some of the more disabling features like anxiety, daily crying jags, pain upon hearing her sister hum a song, chronic constipation, dyslexia and extreme weak muscle tone. I think alot of families that are suseptible to autism have type strengths that also come with some genetic weaknesses. One of those weaknesses are more suseptibility to toxins and metals which other people can get rid of. I have found great benefit in some of the therapies she is doing also. I have been helped in alot of my issues which are similar to what my daughter has. I am still myself.

Joeker said...

I can understand cleaning out the body of toxins, metals and such, and support it. What I don't support is the usage of randomnly, it seems, selected drugs and hormonal supplements.

The "cure" on many people's lips is the utter annihilation of Autism. The cure I support is to not destroy Autism, but to ensure that it is livable. You don't seem to grasp that the problems lie wherein you argue we're a drain on the system. Let me educate you: I am attending High School, and am graduating quite soon. Afterwards, I have scholarships waiting for me to use to gain my degree, a Bachelor of Arts. By the time I have obtained said degree, I'm going to be actively publishing. I write and put up poems, articles, short stories and rants online, and am constantly shocked by the amount of people who say they love my work. I actually inspired someone, a stranger, who lives in the UK, to become a writer!

Now, I'm all for healing, all for ensuring that Autistics recieve needed help, and treatment for their problems, but not to turn them into pullstring dolls. Yes, flush out toxic metals which cause harm! Yes, teach what it is to live in our societies!

My affliction is what grants me my freedom. It is a curse and a blessing, and I have managed surprising freedom in my life.

The soldiers are dying for every person they fight to protect. Their mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, even the strangers they saw on the street before heading out. They're fighting for all of them, and their rights.

I'll refuse the cure, but I'm not going to live off the system if I'm capable of making my own way in the world, which I am most certain I am.

I'll send you a copy of my first book. =P

She's your daughter, and only you know her best. And only you truly know yourself. But when it comes to cures, specify if you're trying to integrate or eliminate, since CAN and DAN are hard at work on the latter.

I'm all for integration, for learning what's appropriate, but I draw the line at trying to change the basic makeup of a person. So yes, I support cleaning out toxins, yes, I support curng the symptoms, like sensory problems, and yes, I support helping those who aren't capable of helpng themselves.

I am glad to find that you're also disgusted by the idea of eugenics, and happy there's a chance to find some common ground, with which to better understand another, with all the misconceptions we've been making, and a lack of clarity with each other.

Fore Sam said...

Joeker, You appear to be reasonable. Quackbusters is an organization that deals in propaganda. This blog opposes said propaganda. I'll leave it up to you to sort the wheat from the chaff in all that is said here.

Googlybear said...

Joeker,

You are only in high school and are so articulate?! My hat is off to you. I don't mean that because you are on the spectrum either, I don't know alot of NT teens who write so maturely either.

It gives me hope that my child can get to the same point you are at. The mainstream doctor wanted to drug my daughter with various hardcore medications like Prozac and the like in order to deal with the ADHD stuff. The school wanted this too, but they are not allowed to come right out and say it anymore. I don't want to start messing with drugs and such, so we sought out alternative forms of treatment.

I've heard alot of biomed parents say this, "I don't know what the word recovery means, it is different for every person." For me, 'recovery' simply means that my daughter will have the same opportunities that you are looking forward to. I really don't picture her being a different person. Already, we have had great success. The hyperactivity is about 50% reduced, communication is more coherent which helps people understand her needs and the 2-3 hours a day of crying and tantrums is gone. Also, I think the dyslexia is improving because for the first time she understands why lines are on paper and how to stay in the lines. Also, she is remembering simple directions and being able to follow all the way through, which is huge. It isn't like pulling off blue tinted glasses and suddenly the person has to cope without all the coping skills they have developed through life. The process is gentle and moves at a slower pace then you think- but not so slow it can be mistaken as a normal occurance or coincidence. It seems as her body is healing, she is naturally beginning to acquire new skills and starting to notice things around her. I think she will gradually become more aware of things in her environment and socially that didn't occur to her before. There are some kids that fully recover if you get ahold of them very young, but even then some don't and I think we may be past that point age wise.

I still think that autism is a disability, but lots of people live with disabilities and different levels of ability- and many are not really considered disabled. For instance, I don't consider Christcool to be disabled even though he says he is aspbergers/autistic. It doesn't seem to be completely the same condition my daughter has. But if she was at that level of functioning, where she had the ability to be independant, I would consider her recovered. I resent people like Christcool and others in the neurodiversity movement who fight against DAN and biomed, who have so many abilities and opportunities themselves, trying to stop parents like myself and Sam from giving our kids the same possibilities.

sean walton said...

Googly,

You answered my question correctly thankfully. You have acknowledged the freedom of choice which meant my analogy about the War on Terrorism did it's job. Sure, it's out of control but that's only because the Whitehouse is concentrating on the wrong battlefield (Iraq). The War on Terror - focussed correctly - is worth the fight. As you said, enough about that.

You have also acknowledged the need for extra funding for ASD's, which means you approve of higher taxes. Good. I agree that some people abuse welfare (fattys are a great example - well done!) but adults with ASD's are not inherently capable of independence.

And I don't agree that independence equals recovered. The condition still exists and it still has an effect of their lives. What has happened is that they have found a way to cope, and found a niche where the abuse is at a minimum. That's great, and it's what everybody with an ASD with that level of functioning deserves.

Joeker said...

Fore Sam: Indeed, I happen to disagree with Quackbusters.

I am a strong supporter(at least, all the support a high-school student can offer) of alternative therapies, rather than sticking to outdated or otherwise less effective forms of treatment.

I grew up without getting drugged, and instead of getting ABA or electroshock, or whatever the current popular treatment was at that time. I watched, learned, intellectualized social interaction, and learnt how to behave properly in society. Very alternative, in my opinion.

Googly: Thanks for the compliment. =)
For me, the way you describe your daughter, it makes me feel very positive. You're willing to work with your daughter, connect, build bridges, communicate, and educate. It's great that you don't feel that Autism means life is at it's end, and it really makes me ecstatic to hear about the positive things in your daughter's progress.

I am very thankful towards my parents for how they taught me, raised me, and encouraged me. As long as you love your daughter, and treat her as well as you are, she'll grow and come to embrace her enviroment, and adapt to create her own life and oppurtunities.

This Christcool character sounds despicable. It's one thing to speak of yourself and Autism, but quite another to parade your own child about as a political toy.

Sean W: That's just What I plan to do, find a niche, a place where my talents are recognized and my short-comings aren't dire. My less than average social presence is one of the reasons why I prefer to work alone.

Autism is still me, and always will be, so I learn, adapt, understand the world around me. I will always be autistic, but I will always be myself, and I will find my place in this world, a place we all will find. A place we will know as "our" place. Our own drop in the ocean of all the world.

Heh, sorry, I tend to get pretty philisophical sometimes. Anyways, thanks for your time.

Fore Sam said...

Joeker, All children watch and learn how to behave properly in society. That doesn't make you anything special. The mercury in your head just made it more difficult for you. You needn't be always autistic. That notion is now in the category of "old wives tales". Science has found the solution to autism. Do yourself a favor and investigate the possibility that you can get treated and enjoy the rest of your life without a disability.

Joeker said...

Fore Sam: Could you try to read what I say, rather than pick out bits of sentences? They watch and learn, of course. But do they intellectualize it? Work out in their heads a kind of methodology involving conciously studying factors of their enviroment and those around them to discern if someone is bored or just distracted by a sudden movement we can't see? In Autism, you see, we don't grasp the subtle signs easily, don't learn them quickly. It's like crawling around while everyone else is sprinting.

Until I managed to get the basic social structure down to a science, and did it often enough to make it automatic, subconcious, I couldn't manage in social situations, unless I was speaking to figures of authority. Even then, I didn't know what was polite or not.

Autism is what shaped me, and if all of a sudden, every aspect of Autism vanished from me, I'd still have the basis of my life to that point of being Autistic, and that is who I would be. I'd be different, yes, inside and out, but I'd still be the shape of thoughts, emotions, intellectualization, as I was before. It would simply change my chemical make-up, make me feel like everyone else feels, only still with my mind, influenced by my youth, and by Autism.

As it so happens, my disability and ability are intrinsically tied. My incredible, autism-powered mind of literary genius and inspiration, would no longer work as it once did, and I'd be left using mundane words to describe that which I once spoke of in indeliable tranquility, peace, love, and emotion, to debase my soulful arts, and make my poetry but a husk of a yesteryear, whereupon I was once thought of as brilliant, soulful, wise, a true poet, and an inspiration to those whom feel such emotions so powerfully.

Eliminate the kind of mental concentrational activities which just wrote that above little blurb.

I've spent years attaining an equilibrium, a place where my mind, my body, and enviroment where in balance, and I'd rather maintain this happiness, my place of well-being, rather than come to grips with a strange, new experience such as that of having my mind remolded by drugs, hormones and chemical agents.

Science is looking, testing, experimenting. It is an insult to all of science to announce unconfirmed data early and as one of many possibilities, to speak in certainities of hypotheses, and to claim fact in face of data which is not absolutely certain in terms of scientific certainity, but in the beliefs of individuals.

There are many conflicting sciences regarding Autism, and many other areas of science claim they've cured it, or it can't be. But I have not seen any proof that it is cured, or curable, incurable, or if it's even possible to perform the Prenatal tests that CAN was all fired up about.

When it comes down to it, what kind of life will it be, to lose my mind to become normal? Is my entire intellectual existence, all of the things that make up who I am, to become something else than what I know, and am?

You speak like you can just cut Autism off, like an infected limb, but when you cut it off of me, the limb will go with it. And to be honest? That's what I use to determine right and wrong, determine good and evil, to decide yes or no, the thing I use to think, create poetry, to examine, to decide, and to live my life. Everything about me is effected by Autism, to my shyness, to my avoidance of direct eye-pupil contact, to my writing, and to my tastes in clothes. Even my friendships, my family life... My love life.

Everything that makes up who I am comes from my Autism. I am afraid, desperately, of eventually being forced to be "cured," to lose all that I am, and become a stranger to myself.

Can you even comprehend what it will feel like, to have something within you shape you into who you are, then have others try to rip it from you? All it will do is make me into what other people want me to be. Like them. Get a wife. Have two children. Own a home. A pet, like a cat, or dog. Own a car. Maintain a job in some profession where I'll come home every night hating my job, and eventually become a smoker or alcoholic, maybe not even notice it as it happens. Develop a healthy fear of the unnatural, and should one of my children become diagnosed with Autism, I'll rush right out to have them cured, turned into his father, a normal person, who will grow up looking up to me, and learn what to live like from me, and finally, he will eventually bury me at a nice ceremony, surrounded by people, and talk about my minor achievements in hobbies, work, and recreation. He'll mourn me, and move on, normal, living his life, never knowing that his father once, in his youth, wrote beautiful poems, was outspoken, made many people laugh, and even inspired that writer who would've moved on, passionate, to write the greatest books of our era, perhaps, and to dedicate them to my online nickname.

Purely hypothetical, but of course, formed by what everyone presents as the average, normal life.

I think I'd rather go with what I have planned, bound and freed at the same time by my Autism. I have a bright future ahead, thanks to and in spite of my Autism. I think I'm set, thanks. After all, I think that, "Many Autistics will never earn a dime," is going to be quite the interesting old wives tale. Pardon me, I'm off to get to work on creating my first volume for publication.

Ciao for now!
~Joeker

Fore Sam said...

Joeker, You have a lot to learn. Autism is mercury poisoning. Your brain will work better, faster and be much more perceptive without being slowed down by poison.
You'll learn that writing concisely and using common language is much better than droning on in multi-syllabic parlance and putting people to sleep. After all, you do want everyone, even idiots like Kevin Leitch, to be able to understand what you write, don't you?
The kind of mental concentration that you must achieve now will be achieved more easily. You won't have to fight to achieve it. Your IQ will probably increase. Autism is an inability to pay attention. What you think is of value to you intellectually is akin to the effect of marijuana. It slows down your brain so that simple things seem much more complex than they really are. Having never known normalcy, you trust the pure nonsense spouted by the likes of Neurodiversity.
I'll tell you again. Neurodiversity is a nefarious scam. It uses autistic people to provoke them into saying things like you have here. It's nonsense. Neurodiversity is an arm of Quackbusters which exists solely to make more money for mainstream medicine and pharmaceutical companies. Don't be scammed into accepting life with a disability. Your brain has been damaged by poison. If you were as smart as you think you are, you would realize that that poison is harming you.

Joeker said...

Let me make some things perfectly clear before you start your sweeping, all-encompassing generalizations about me, hm?

Mercury poisoning is a theory, and there are many out there. Many, many theories. You have this one, and I respect you chose one that you believe is correct, but no one really knows for absolutely certain! If it really was, then let the evidence speak for itself, if it really works, and is a fact. Go speak with someone who believes it's genetic. How about the enviromental supporters? Refridgerator mothers? They'll say to you what you say to me, that Autism is caused by (your opinion here). We don't know it for certain. There are implications, yes, but the same for even the more crackpot of theories.
I speak well, having learnt it, and having taken acting courses in school to help expand it, and I no longer drone on, but speak fluidly(well). I don't always speak as an intellectual, and more often than not, I speak commonly. I never fight for my concentration, but let it flow. I have no need to drag it, kicking and screaming, tearing my mind, out to effect upon pen and paper, or keyboard, but simply let it come pouring out. As I'm doing right now.
My IQ is already above the normal range, and in fact, over a hundred. I am excellent at paying attention, and rarely miss details.
Like marijuana? Please, at least try to find actual comparisons. Autism is nothing like getting high on Marijuana, you simply wish to draw on the negative connotations affixed to marijuana to make Autism seem like a psychoactive drug. Better luck with your next metaphor.
I know normalacy. I see it in people everyday, examine, find the logic and meaning of it.
"Neurodiversity is an arm of Quackbusters which exists solely to make more money for mainstream medicine and pharmaceutical companies." Hm, your logic fails me. I don't care for the Neurodiverse movement. Neurodiversity? Bah! You're still touting the same old lines. I don't support Sediel. I don't buy into Neuro-diversity. I am not a neurodiversie, or whatever they call themselves. I'm not a Darkwing Duck, busting quacks. I am my own person, and I advocate self-control, learning, adaptation to the world. You fail to realize what I've been saying previously, that I don't support drugs. Don't support. I support what I've done, and I've come to this point in my life without drugs, without therapies of electric shocks or dog-training, no specialized diets, no free ride or walk for what I have accomplished, with my own person, power, and will.
I disagree with Quackbusters, and I disagree with you. I am in no way helping or aiding the evil "drug companies" who "turned me Autistic."

If I'm as smart as you think I'm not, then just why would you try to make a disparaging remark on my intellect, whereupon it has been clearly and concisely shown, in this post and others, that I am not prone to being fooled, that I stand and take whatever comes my way, and that I refuse to give up on myself and just cry about all the boo-boos life has given me? Speaking of a past, especially one you hate, is a loathe task. Now tell me, if I was capable of surviving a childhood of hell, being ostracized by my peers for most of my school life, putting up with being the last one in all the sports, not knowing how to properly interact, been scared of telephone conversations, having self-esteem nearly dried up, and still come out with ambition, plans for the future, and a powerful talent for writing, would you not agree that it takes more than an average, everyday person to cope? If I weren't as intelligent as I "think I am" do you honestly believe I could've made my way to where I am now? Save the personal remarks for private conversations.

Maybe this poison isn't so bad as the apathy pervading our schools, which lets anyone simply watch the spectacle of the nerdy kid getting his glasses broken, and shoved headfirst into the garbage. Maybe it's a good thing that I, as autistic, "apparently" cannot emphathize with others. I'd be afraid to know, if I didn't already, if I couldn't feel empathy. Too bad for your stereotypes. But that's the funniest thing about them, huh? The fact that they're often wrong.

Fore Sam said...

Joeker, Mercury poisoning is a fact, not a theory.
You can disagree with me all you want. You'll just continue to be wrong.
Are you still autistic or Asperger's or whatever? If so, you're brain is not working properly. Your perception is that of one with brain damage. You will not know accurate perception of anything until your brain ceases to be bothered by mercury.
You claim you're not prone to being fooled. Think again. You already have been fooled. You've accepted brain damage instead of demanding that your brain be fixed. Have your parents looked into this? For your sake, I hope they do.
Just so you know, none of this is any slight on you as you seem to think. I'm just pointing out facts so you can help yourself. It would be better if your parents heard this so they could decide whether to try to help you or not. People with damaged brains should not make important decisions for themselves.

Anonymous said...

Mercury poisoning is neither fact nor theory. It is conjecture.

Leave Joeker alone, Fore Sam. He has a life and it's not up to you to try and wreck it for him and try and drive down his self esteem with your self righteous drivel!

phil said...

Joeker, don't bother trying to reason with Fore Sam. He is convinced that all ASD's are caused 100 percent by mercury poisoning and that the different wiring of our brains can be re-wired "correctly". The man's a meglomaniac, Joeker. You can't reason with a person like that. He's determined to drive us into the ground like the bully that he is. To do what he thinks is possible with chelation can only be done with brain surgery. There's no other way. And of course the human race doesn't understand a tenth of how a brain works in reality. Fore Sam just won't accept that his son will be Autistic for life. The most he's done with chelation is take away the low functioning aspect - and that's only because he's taken out the heavy metals from the boy's intestines, which were majority caused by the food he was consuming. Not by mercury in vaccines. Better to just ignore him I think. Fore Sam is a delusional fool. And he is the one being fooled BTW. He just refuses to see it because his mind is dominated by conspiracy.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, Shut up and wake up. His life was wrecked when some quack pediatrician shot him up with too much mercury. It's not easy to help people who have been fed lies by the likes of you their entire lives. I suppose if this kid was a drunk, you'd buy him some MD20-20.

Fore Sam said...

Phil, Are you still writing comedy on your blog? You're not a freakin' robot. You don't have wires in your head, just mercury.
Conspirators don't advertise the treachery they perform. We're lucky to have Tim Bolen to point it out for us.

james said...

I can't believe this.
Quackwatch is all over the net like a rash.
I found out my husbands university is sponsoring them. Then after very little research, found "Quackwatch" has links to every university, every health authority and organisation.

I googled quackwatch with random words.

Ice ceam
Coats
Cars
Primark
Oranges

A bit dissappointed with "0ranges".
Only 234 links for them.

You get the picture. Try it yourself.
Wow they've been hard at work!
They're either a huge team or they've got plenty money behind them.
I think I'll try carpet and door knob or maybe prick. I might get the dictionary definition for Stephen Barrett.

james said...

Jeoker
You said,
"Everything that makes up who I am comes from my Autism. I am afraid, desperately, of eventually being forced to be "cured," to lose all that I am, and become a stranger to myself."

Don't worry, this will never happen. Nobody is ever going to force a cure on you. Try to put this out of your mind, if you can.

Joeker said...

"I'd still have the basis of my life to that point of being Autistic, and that is who I would be." you fail to realize the simple facts; Autism has shaped who I am. I know my Autism, as my existence. Autism is to me what your normal brain is. Don't judge me, label me as brain damaged, write me off as a sad, pitiful statistic who doesn't know boo about himself, who needs to be redesigned by hormonal and chemical means.

"People with damaged brains should not make important decisions for themselves." This here stinks of the slave-owners of yore. "The poor black man can't take care of himself, so we give him food, shelter, a job to do in exchange for these things." I'm not saying this is how it is, but what your comment stinks of. It smells like the "poor autistic," who is: graduating, staying healthy, entertains many social contacts, and whom is involved regularly with the community, as well as earning his driver's license.

"It would be better if your parents heard this so they could decide whether to try to help you or not." I don't think I'll bother making them pissing mad. They taught me, helped me, loved me, and they sure don't want to hear some self-righteous parent say that they're poor parents because they treated their son well, did right by him, and are proud of what he has accomplished. You slight my parents to think for one moment they didn't put effort into thinking about how to deal with their own child.

The thing is, you don't so much slight me, as you try to diminish me, to take a tale of adversity and success in the face of it, and write it off because I'm not "cured" in your opinion. You don't slight me so much as debase me, make me seem lesser for the state of my mind. If you can't beat 'em, make 'em out to be unable to function in any capacity of decision-making.

You say I'm fooled, I shouldn't be in charge of my own life, I'm unaware of the fact I'm being fooled by groups I've never heard of, let alone been brainwashed by, and that my perceptions are insignificant, since they aren't perceptions of the variety you happen to have.

Thank you Anon, I appreciate your support.

Phil, I can but try, because when it comes to reason, it comes to looking into the other person's point of view. Reason is part of the glue that keeps people sane and healthy.

Back to Fore Sam. Kid? I'm 18, thank you very much! And to be honest, that's only my chronological age. You'd be surprised just how advanced I am. I can hardly wait to vote. Fairly, of course, and based on what the benefits are to the community, not out of common bias or parental political affiliation.
My life hasn't been wrecked until I'm dying, alone, drunk or high, in a back alley somewhere, which is more than just not at all likely. I have plans, ambition, and it's all rooted firmly in reality. You know, the real world?

James. He claims that I'm unable to make my own decisions, because I'm "incapable" of making any choices that have any impact on my life beyond "Boxers or Briefs." You think the decision would be mine to be "cured," if I wasn't to make my own decisions? If you actually paid attention to what he's said, you'd realize this logic of Fore's argument, of course:

If Autism means that I'm brain damaged, then that means I can't make important decisions in my life. Thus, if I'm to be "cured," it lies not with my free will, but with the ones in charge. Thus, him, if I permit him to find and contact my parents, and advise them that it would be the "correct" course of action, then where will be the vaunted logic of "not going to force it?"

You see, THAT is what has me scared. If I can't decide, then how the hell can I refuse!? Seriously, it wouldn't be my decision, were Fore Sam to know my full name, address, and all the information he'd need to find me. Because, after all, I can't make my own decisions, because I'm broken. Damaged goods. That's all I seem to be, in his eyes, a problem that must be rectified.

Fore Sam said...

Joekr, Cho was a problem that should have been rectified. Yes, I favor curing you against your will. Wanting to go through life with brain damage is insane.
I looked forward to voting when I was your age too. I soon realized that it was a waste of time and didn't vote again for 20 years. That was also a waste of time. Your choice will always be Scumbag A or Scumbag B. That's why the vast majority of people do not vote. There is no choice.
Comparing autism to slavery is ridiculous. There is nothing similar. There'll be more Cho's. At some point, our corrupt government will realize they have to admit the truth about autism and you will all be rounded up and cured. And, you will be thankful when that happens.

Joeker said...

"Joeker, Cho was a problem that should have been rectified. Yes, I favor curing you against your will. Wanting to go through life with brain damage is insane.
I looked forward to voting when I was your age too. I soon realized that it was a waste of time and didn't vote again for 20 years. That was also a waste of time. Your choice will always be Scumbag A or Scumbag B. That's why the vast majority of people do not vote. There is no choice.
Comparing autism to slavery is ridiculous. There is nothing similar. There'll be more Cho's. At some point, our corrupt government will realize they have to admit the truth about autism and you will all be rounded up and cured. And, you will be thankful when that happens."

Hm, I see you failed with the metaphor... what happened? I thought you normies were supposed to be great at these!
You see, the point with that was: Other people taking charge of other's lives, and ordering them in such a way. No free will for you! I wasn't comparing slavery to Autism, but the attitude towards blacks in that era, which were close to those held by you about Autistics.

I have heard the last words he spoke, seen the tape. I know exactly why he did what he did. I don't now what triggered it, but I do know why he chose his school, his peers and teachers for targets. Cho had a truly terrible past. As with many high-functioning autistics, Cho suffered bullying, torment, and anguish, and it was all for nothing he had done, he had committed no crime, but was ostracized because he was different. Not only was he autistic, he was learning a new language, culture, and was a perfect target for those who wished to bolster their inane youthful egos. They examined Cho years before, and DXed him with something, not autism, and gave him drugs for it, and sent on his merry little way. He developed a Martyr complex, a God complex, and of course, like anyone who believe's that they're Jesus, bought guns and went on a killing spree. Of course, because it appears he was autistic, and likely was, in my opinion, this means that Autistics are now to be known only as "Cho's?"
Please, try arguing your case without bringing in the bodies of 33 people to parade about like toys. Virginia Tech was a tragedy, and you, like so many others, are turning it into a travesty. Stop playing fast and loose with the dead.

More Cho's? But of course. I believe you stole that technique from Jack Thompson, predicting school shootings, but unfortunately for you, they're quite sporadic incidents, and not everyone who wants to kill people is Autistic.

So, yes, you don't think I deseve free will. Very well. I don't think your crusade against dominating people will succeed, but just in case, I'll make sure to exercise my rights when I'm old enough to purchase a gun for protection, as well as enough canned goods that I can live hiding out on my property for years. I may even start a garden... But you know what?

You fail to realize that I am a well-adjusted, helpful, kind, polite and softspoken member of my community. I'm the guy my frieds come to to get problems off their chest, the shoulder to cry on for relationship troubles, and(I believe I've said this a few times) I have a bright, and successful future in front of me. I have a loving family. I have many friends, and a wonderful girlfriend. What part of "happy, healthy, inteligent, and graduating" screams "brain damage?"

Now, I'm going to play a fun game. Come and see my Blog in an hour, and have a peek. This will be something one can really appreciate. Well, maybe not so much you. =P

Fore Sam said...

Joker, Can you talk? Do you spin in circles, stim, smear feces, bite yourself, bang your head, etc.? I don't think you're autistic at all. Maybe Asperger's.
Who do you think you are trying to tell me how to argue? I'm not parading dead bodies around. I'm telling you and every other jackass who won't listen that autism is curable. If autistics are cured, they won't suffer the abuse that Cho suffered and blow up with their damaged brains and shoot innocent people.
Take yourself and your Asperger's and go bother someone else. Claiming you are autistic while you can function perfectly well obscures the fact that real autistics need lots of help that you don't need. You're a despicable person for hurting autistic children in this manner.

Fore Sam said...

Joker, I looked at your blog. "to make points that I consider valid, some even brilliant, and have it all washed away by smearing my mental capacity, though I prove that I'm more than capable of using the "Big Words."" says it all, kid.
You consider your points valid and brilliant. They aren't. I think you've been mollycoddled all your life and now you are facing a dose of reality. Love can't cure mercury poisoning. Neither can acceptance. Neither can ABA. The only thing that can cure mercury poisoning is chelation. I don't buy into any of the obsolete bullshit people try to sell me as the best way to help my son. I'm not about to accept these obsolete ideas from you either. As one who doesn't like seeing kids suffer (that includes you), I'm not about to patronize you and let you think that accepting brain damage is a wise thing. That's what old bastards like me are good for. We point out flaws in youthful thinking but the youths don't usually listen.

Joeker said...

I've had about enough of this.

Joker, Can you talk? Do you spin in circles, stim, smear feces, bite yourself, bang your head, etc.? I don't think you're autistic at all. Maybe Asperger's.

Yes, I can talk. When I was younger I would spin quite often, I liked the feeling of it. I still stim, but I've moved onto my beard, mainly. Twisting, twirling, rubbing, arranging, smooting, parting, so on. I nibble on my lips occasionally, when feeling uncomfortable. I used to chew on my fingers, sometimes pick off scabs, lick the blood off of my hands. Wonderful little scars on my arms and legs. I would cover my hands in glue, then peel it off, piece by piece, fascinated by the way it peeled. When I was younger, I would whack my head against a great deal of things. Walls, the desks, trees... I love watching the way flames move, flickering, leaping, moving about with the breezes... When I was younger, I would literally get lost in watching fires. I apparently moved on, up, int the AS range, when I was formally DXed as AS, because I fit more AS than Aut by that time, after havng gotten more under control.

Who do you think you are trying to tell me how to argue? I'm not parading dead bodies around.

Simple. I excel in arguing. I've been defending myself with words since I picked up a criminal law book years ago. I'll tell you right now, using Virginia Tech to promote your political agenda is disgusting. 33 people died that day, and all I hear from you is "Cho" "Autism" and "Fault." You showed no remorse over their deaths in these comments you've made on Cho, the sacrifice of Liviu Librescu, who gave his life so his students could flee out the window, giving his life for theirs, barricading the door and acting as a human shield... And all you can do is use the death, the heroism, the horror, and play with it like a new toy to wave about.

I'm telling you and every other jackass who won't listen that autism is curable.

The only way to truly cure Autism is to get rid of it. There is no magic cure that will make your child perfectly, 100% normal again. There are things you can do, ways you can help, that you're saying are helping. But this isn't curing, now is it? This is not a magic antidote that will make your child just like every other child. But once you reach a certain point in the process of healing, of the gradual, steady, yet sometimes sudden changes, you'll come to realize that your child, the one you love, isn't and likely won't be perfectly alike his peers. And you'll understand that, accept it, acknowledge the fact, but you really won't care, because he'll fit in, and he'll be accepted. He'll have the clouded paths of the future opening widely for him, and he'll be proudly taking them.

If autistics are cured, they won't suffer the abuse that Cho suffered and blow up with their damaged brains and shoot innocent people.

The abuse Cho suffered? It was wrought by his peers, who couldn't accept he was different. The blame lies on a system which cares not for the weak and helpless, those who cannot help themselves. This is why so many AS and High-functioning autistics report they were bullied. This is where much of the cormorbid conditions come from. Has anyone noticed the cormorbidity, or is everyone too focused on Autism? Examine Cho in the media, mainly medical information, and find the cormorbid conditions. They'll really make you stop and think, if they're on the internet at all.

Take yourself and your Asperger's and go bother someone else. Claiming you are autistic while you can function perfectly well obscures the fact that real autistics need lots of help that you don't need.

There's a small line between AS and Autism. High-functioning and AS are pretty close, and I managed to reach out rather than hide within. From the start, I was lucky to have strong willpower. I decided to do this or that, and I'd try until I did it. By the time I'd reached diagnosis, I had stopped the booger-smearing, the spinning, and the handchewing, not to mention all the times I had spent being upside-down. I still hate phones, and hate to answer them, let alone call someone. I still chew on my lps, and I still, on occasion, dig my fists into my eyes, mainly when I'm tired, somtimes scared, anxious, or sleepy. I'm not asking for help. Not once have I asked you, or any groups for help. I've made my own way since I was a child, only it's easier now. I had to learn, intellectualize, watch, listen, interact, to pull myself up into a cold world. For a time, I retreated within a fantasy world, between the pages of books, living in fantasy, seperating my body and mind, enduring pain and agony. It was a struggle a long way for what seemed to be little gains, but life gradually improved.
The moral?
I have worked hard to become who I am. I don't want that torn from me. You're the one who first started in on me, trying to push a cure onto me, which I tried to make clear I didn't need, or even want. I came here to see what the fuss was about, started to disagree with some of the things you said, your tactics for pushing your ideas onto others, and then we got to talking on cure, and you tried to make sure I was cured. I'm trying to say, "Hey, for those on the high-functioning end, some don't want it." Like the neurodiverses, those other groups, and those HFs who slipped through cracks.
Cho, Autistic? Alright, I can understand and accept, and I even concur for that. However, you've got to be pretty HF to make it to a college/university level. So thus remains what I've been driving at. Bullying. This happens mainly to High-functioning Autistics and AS. Cho's Autism didn't say: "Hey, kill people." His mind, it didn't explode, if he was capable of rational thought, movement, behavior, and of course, filmography.
I don't need the help, and I never asked for it. I don't need a cure for myself. I am fully in support of lower-functioning autistics recieving aid, education, and yes, if you believe it's mercury causing the Low-function, then by all means, use your method of cleansing toxins from the mind and body.

You're a despicable person for hurting autistic children in this manner.

You're a despicable person for attacking me, my family, and my character, making sweeping generalizations, and attributing me to several organizations you dislike, and some of which I'd never heard of. You really don't know anything of my life, as I know little to nothing of yours.

By the way, have you any idea what effect your actions are? You're not helping Autistics by raving on about how Cho was Autistic. What do you see when something bad happens? Example: 9/11. Results? People of Middle-eastern descent are now watched closely, and are all just seen as possible terrorists. Cho was Autistic? What do you THINK the reaction will be like? Problems before with Autistics interactng other kids will only become worse. You're only painting innocents with targets, and further ostracizing Autistics.

I hope you can understand more about me and what my aims are:
Show that Autism isn't one massive, all-encompassing horror, and there can be positive things from autism.
Prove that I'm capable of making my own decisions, as you so stunningly believe I cannot.
Ensure Autism doesn't become a name of fear and hatred.

Joeker said...

All right, your second comment:

If my points aren't valid then how come you never challenge them? Oh sure, you'll address a few, but ignore others. Why? I think you're unable to think up an argument that will effectively invalidate said points. But I'm done arguing that for now, and I'm wondering whether or not to remove that blog entry on Filling in Blanks... It seems a little useless, now.

Kind of easy to make sweeping generalizations, huh?

I think you've been mollycoddled all your life and now you are facing a dose of reality.

I'd hardly call my life a life of being mollycoddled. Ask the scars. They'll tell you lots of stories, one of the reasons I try to avoid getting tanned. Reality? Reality is watching your mother cry as she sees your bruises, cuts, fat lips, black eyes. Reality is the feel of a knife in your hand, hovering over your wrist, then putting it back down on the counter, too much of a coward to even end the misery. My past is full of reality, and much of it I'd forget if I had the choice. Although I cannot forget, the past is the past.

Go ahead, treat all you want, treat him until you stop. Just because there's mercury, does that mean the brain is fixed when it is removed? What of damage that may remain?

I am firmly opposed to ABA. It's a load of Advanced BS. Daft concept, really.

I guess something I'd really like to know is, if I were to look into and undergo Chelation, what exactly would be happening to me? My Body? My Mind

watson said...

Joeker, You're obviously not the average 18 year old so perhaps you've had difficulties with your peers because you are different. But being different doesn't mean you have autism.

I agree with James, I really don't think you should worry about someone forcing a cure on you. You sound like an intellectual and maybe you've considered going to university. Many of the ND activists who call themselves autistic and say they have autism are university graduates, and some have multiple degrees. Do you think the following people need a cure, or are worried to death, which you appear to be, about someone forcing a cure on them?

Wendy Lawson - Five university degrees including a Graduate Diploma in Psychology (Bss. Bsw(Hons) GDip(PsychStud) GDip(Psych). She's a qualified counsellor, social worker and psychologist and author of several books, poet and adult educator

Donna Williams - Honours Degree in Sociology, a degree in Linguistics and a postgraduate Diploma in Education. She's an artist, sculptor, composer and screenwriter, author of 9 published books in the field of Autism including four text books, renowned international public speaker, a qualified teacher and autism consultant.

Larry Arnold - University graduate, qualifications in Media Studies and Autistic Spectrum Disorders. He's a musician, poet, painter, photographer, video editor. He was elected as a Fellow of the Royal Society for the encouragement of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce.

Kathy Grant - Degree in Political Science and a writer.

Dinah Murray - Ph.D - Researcher, writer, campaigner and teacher in the field of autism and its variants

All of the above have been diagnosed with Aspergers, they don't have autism.


My son's brain was damaged by vacccines 14 years ago. He is 16. He will never go to university or become a writer and he may never have a friend or a girlfriend, He gets plenty of love, but as John said, love is not enough for our children.

You don't have brain damage, and you don't have autism, and if I were you, I would stop worrying about something that will never happen, thank g_d for my friends and my intelligence, and look forward to my bright and successful future.

Fore Sam said...

Joeker, Today is Kentucky Derby day. Scat Daddy should win the race but the track is liable to be muddy or sloppy which adds a great degree of difficulty to handicapping the race. My energies are focused on this today. If I have time, I may address all that you say tomorrow. In the meantime, you should know that overcoming thoughts of suicide show bravery not cowardice. Suicide is the act of a coward.

james said...

watson,

"Donna Williams - Honours Degree in Sociology, a degree in Linguistics and a postgraduate Diploma in Education. She's an artist, sculptor, composer and screenwriter, author of 9 published books in the field of Autism including four text books, renowned international public speaker, a qualified teacher and autism consultant."

If it's true she has a diagnosis of Aspergers as opposed to classic autism, I'm very disappointed in her.

How do you know this?

Googlybear said...

Joeker, I want to throw some thoughts out there, none of them with animosity or malice.

Biomed is not chemically altering. That is what mainstream medicine wanted to do by putting my daughter on prozac and other chemical drugs to force her into compliance. Most of biomed revolves around correcting and balancing the immune system, ridding the body of fungal overgrowth and other pathogens, healing gut issues, correcting nutritional deficiencies, restoring the function of metabolic pathways, dealing with food allergies and environmental sensitivities, and using nutritional supplementation to help the body overcome obstacles like attention problems or give the body what it needs to heal problems like weak muscle tone. Most DAN's do not use alot of pharmaceuticals. Most of the pharmaceuticals they use are anti-virals, anti-fungals, chelating agents and sometimes something like low dose naltrexone which helps the immune system. Not all biomed parents use the pharmaceutical chelating agents, some use natural chelators and some rely on restoring methylation function so the body can chelate itself. HBOT can be useful. We are going to do it because my dauther did incur some birth trauma and oxygen loss, as well as has very weak muscles. HBOT really isn't that traumatic. I have found some of the dietary changes and nutritional supplementation has gotten rid of my chronic headaches and helped alleviate some of my dyslexia. I'm still the same person. Lots of people use alot of the same things that DAN practioners use to alleviate or help other conditons like arthritis, multiple sclerosis, cerebral palsy, ADHD, allergies, cancer, schizophrenia. I don't anticipate my daughter being a completely different person, just having more options and abilities. I think that it might benefit you intellectually to just read at least one biomed book to see what it is really about. I like Dr. McCandless's book and her granddaughter Chelsey is not recovered. My DAN says that the goal is not recovery, that can not be promised, the goal is to optomize health which restores function. Everyone is talking back and forth like there is a definitive cure that is 100% effective for 100% of people on the spectrum, and there is not. That is why nobody is going to force anything on you, not anything ForeSam is doing for his son. The kind of medicine that I would worry about forcing anyone is mainstream, and they are the ones who force chemical alterations in the forms of antipsychotics, antidepressants and the like. If you were a low functioning adult in a home, you would have a doctor and a therapist putting you on a handful of pills. As a high functioning independant person that is not going to happen.

Joeker, if my dd was at your level of ability I would consider her recovered. Most of us who employ biomed realize that a possibility of "full recovery", whatever that means, diminishes the older a person gets. The most success has been with children who are under age 5, I think because their brain hasn't adapted to a certain way of being so they pick up various skills much easier. I don't know if those kids are 100% "not autistic" or if the are what people would call "shadowed", which means they still have the genetic personality prevalant in families of autistics but they don't have the comorbidities. Even kids that young don't all recover. For teens and adults who do biomed, I think "recovery" often means dealing with alot of the comorbid problems like insomnia, attention span, communication issues, chronic gut problems...etc. Most people who have older children and teens who have started biomed and have had success say their kids are still "quirky", which means they are still themselves. One mom says her young adult son is now able to live independantly, take care of his personal hygiene and has friends and a girlfriend. He is still himself though and will always be "on the spectrum". He just has more skills to have a fuller life than he would have.

I do agree that people should be taught to not pick on people who are different. We used to live within walking distance of a high school where a kid went in one day and shot a bunch of his schoolmates. This child was not on the spectrum, but had an abusive homelife and was picked on unmercilessly by his peers. I myself was picked on alot as a kid and young teen meerly because I was very smart, shy and a bit socially awkward. Being "NT" does not mean there are not going to be really sucky periods in ones life. It doesn't guarantee future happiness. Having the abilities to be independant do though guarantee that the person will have more freedom, which is what I want for my child. I think people need the freedom to find their own dignity, and some people with autism do not have the ability to function and their dignity is taken away by having multiple strangers (staff) come and go in their house witout their permission to come in, touch their bodies, deal with personal issues, force them to take pharmaceuticals and are part of their life whether they like it or not. They are forced to live in homes with housemates they did not choose, may not even like and who might beat them up on a regular basis. I've seen that happen alot, in one situation the residents were higher functioning but they couldn't do anything because the abusive resident had a parent with gov't connections. They may have needs or pain that others do not realize because they can not communicate. I've seen that happen alot too.

By the by, did you have a chance to visit that website I gave you? I don't think that young man did chelation, I think he just is dealing with some food allergies and did some therapies like auditory integration therapy. Which, is helpful for all kinds of people, like those with speech delay or hearing problems, as well as the auditory problems associated with autism. I thought you might find him interesting because he writes books and does alot of public speaking on autism awareness and acceptance.

watson said...

James said...
If it's true she has a diagnosis of Aspergers as opposed to classic autism, I'm very disappointed in her. How do you know this?


James, How do you know that Donna Williams was diagnosed with classical autism? Is that the impression she gives everyone?

She says herself that she is a high-functioning autistic but she says that in 1990 when she got her diagnosis, "Aspergers Syndrome was virtually non-existent" . (It wasn't included in the DSM until 1994.)

In 1989 she consulted a psychiatrist about her autobiography, and he said that he thought she was autistic, but he didn't give her a diagnosis.

Then she joined an autism support group.

In 1990, she consulted psychiatrist Lawrence Bartak, who gave her a number of tests and said she was "autistic".

One year later, her first book Nobody Nowhere was published.

Donna Williams didn't provide proof of her early life, nor were her parents consulted. I don't believe that she has Autism and neither did the people who knew her before her diagnosis.

I'd like to know what you make of these...
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/helthrpt/hstories/hr290796.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/20021210024422/www.donna.inuk.com/autie/

Anonymous said...

Watson, Sue Rubin has a degree as well. Does that mean she's not autistic?

I know lots of people without degrees, most of whom are NOT autistic.

Having a degree or not having a degree has nothing to do with a diagnosis.

Fore Sam said...

Joeker, I'm not "using death" to promote an agenda. You can't bring back the dead but you can try to prevent it from happening again.
What are you going to do, make it a crime for kids to tease other kids? The kids without brain damage who get teased will find a way to get even. We know that Cho had brain damage, misnamed autism. The solution is to cure that brain damage or prevent it from happening.
Our government thinks it's OK to keep poisoning babies for profit. I don't think the relatives of those who died at VTU would agree. What made this madman? If it was simply being teased, laughed at and bullied, there'd be people going postal every day. No, the brain damage of mercury poisoning that prevented this guy from neing able to cope and adjust is what caused it. There are a lot more damaged brains growing up, including my son. What if my son gets partially cured so he can function, realizes what happened to him and decides to blow up the Capitol building to teach those assholes a lesson? At least he'd be going after people who deserved to die but the act would not be justifiable. I think my son and the scumbag politicians who allowed this insanity to continue would both be much better off if my son was cured.
How about the teenager in Massachusetts with Asperger's who stabbed a classmate to death? One report claimed he didn't even know the victim. Would that kid still be alive if our idiot government had told the truth about thimerosal and his parents had learned now to cure him? This is the part of the coverup our government didn't plan on. They were probably hoping all of our kids would wither away and croak in institutions and be largely forgotten about.
Our government also has the high functioning Asperger's people who con everyone into believing autism is not that big of a deal. Well, those kids who were born at the start of this epidemic are now big enough, strong enough, and brain damaged enough to start causing lots of problems. Some of us paremts are responsible enough to help our kids so they aren't let loose on society like the raving maniacs that these two were. Then we have the neurodiverse nitwit parents who think autism is beautiful and every person is supposed to know how to duck when one of their brain damaged kids has a little tantrum and starts shooting, stabbing, raping or whatever. Yuh, then those irresponsible parents will be jumping all over the diminished capacity defense to keep their brain damaged kid out of prison.
You can call my thoughts on Cho agenda driven in your naivete. I'll think of it as looking at the whole problem while trying to publicize the solution. Maybe you can dream up some way to make our scumbag politicians do the right thing with your flawless argument technique, young genius.

watson said...

Anonymous said...
Watson, Sue Rubin has a degree as well. Does that mean she's not autistic? I know lots of people without degrees, most of whom are NOT autistic. Having a degree or not having a degree has nothing to do with a diagnosis.

Anon, I didn't envisage Joeker as a Sue Rubin who is disabled. His life is nothing like hers.

Sue Rubin's autistic behaviours are caused by Noonan's syndrome, a genetic disorder. She doesn't have Aspergers and she doesn't celebrate her autism, she calls it "Killer Autism" - and she would very much like to be cured. I admire her.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/presents/shows/autism.world/notebooks/sue/notebook.html
Acceptance versus cure By Sue Rubin

"The possibility that I could be very autistic for the rest of my life always upsets me. Therefore, when people talk about a cure I actually love to hear it. To be realistic, I know I will never be cured. The cause of my autism is a genetic anomaly and can't be changed."

james said...

Watson, I've read your links and I'm kinda saddened to find there is some good reason to doubt that she is autistic.

I read her books when my son was first diagnosed, and knew nothing of the nature of autism other than my experience with my own child.
Nobody Nowhere helped me understand that my childs distress and agitation could be caused by or be rooted in fear, instead of or as well as frustration and anger.

But that was a long time ago, and I now consider myself an expert on my childs autism.

I've read her website a few times and she seems the only "austism advocate" not to support the anti-parent and anti-cure mentality of many of the ND's and "aspies".
She was, I think, also the only prominent autism advocate to pay tribute to Dr Rimland and his good work, while others were criticizing him all over blogworld on the day of his death.

I am now very disillusioned to have doubts about her autism myself.

Anonymous said...

Forwarded to the FBI, Capitol Hill Police and the Secret Service:

What if my son gets partially cured so he can function, realizes what happened to him and decides to blow up the Capitol building to teach those assholes a lesson? At least he'd be going after people who deserved to die but the act would not be justifiable. I think my son and the scumbag politicians who allowed this insanity to continue would both be much better off if my son was cured.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, Once again, thanks for dmonstrating the idiocy of neuroinsanity.

Anonymous said...

Ok Watson, let me see if I have this straight. If an autistic wants to be cured and has a college degree, they are ok. If an autistic doesn't want to be cured and has a college degree, they aren't autistic really at all. Set me straight please.

watson said...

Anon, First tell me what you mean by 'an autistic'. The word 'autistic' is an adjective not a noun.

Anonymous said...

I have read two articles in the last few weeks about Asperger's being used as a defence in court.

Does this make it a disability or a scam. I think in these cases it could be either.

The people who suffer most with Asperger's are those who live with the aspies. It's like living in a world gone mad. One person described it as 'living absurd.'

watson said...

James said...
I've read her (Donna Williams) website a few times and she seems the only "austism advocate" not to support the anti-parent and anti-cure mentality of many of the ND's and "aspies".

James, Have you read her response to Aspies for Freedom? I believe she's come under fire from ND for this:

http://www.autismtoday.com/articles/Aspies-for-Freedom.asp?name=Donna%20Williams


She was, I think, also the only prominent autism advocate to pay tribute to Dr Rimland and his good work, while others were criticizing him all over blogworld on the day of his death.

NDs reaction to Dr Rimland's death was utterly disgraceful. I have always been a great admirer of his and was greatly saddened to hear of his death.

Joeker said...

Hm... you raise very base ideas. I'm not talking of low-grade bullying I'm talking full-on torment. There's teasing, there's being pushed out of lies, there's silly gags and pranks, and then there's holding someone to the ground while two others hit. Putting them headfirst into garbage cans. Locking them into lockers, and leaving them to cry out for help. It wasn't simple at all, and I know the extent, because I lived through much of the similar things. There's all kinds of "bullying" that goes beyond pushing others around. Of course, you don't quite grasp the consept of torment and torture in schools, and aministration closing it's eyes and hoping it will go away. If Cho was putting up with that light, almost friendly bullying, there'd have been no way on God's green earth VT would have happened. You're playing with 33 dead people, using their deaths at the hands of a gunman to make it seem like the entirety of autistics are going to go nuts and begin killing people! The families of the victims at Virginia Tech deserve avoiding being used at political puppets, talking heads coached by groups to say what the group wants. They deserve not being called up as last bullets of a weblog's political firearm. You keep pulling generalizations, stereotypes of who you hope I am out of your hat, and many other partial truths, ignoring pieces of what I say to focus on what you argue down. I don't even want to see the kind of rabbit that must be in there.

The stabber in wherever you mentioned? You said it was one report. How do we know he didn't know him? Maybe he grew up being beaten bloody by the kid, maybe not, and all you hold up is one, flimsy report, like your one, flimsy study, in your one, flimsy self-righteous crusade, where it's all right for: Politicians, pediatricians, pharmeceutical CEOs and employees, and of course, bloggers, to die.

In case you hadn't noticed, I'm one of the perfect, most exacting ones who were born at the start of this "epidemic." And you know what? I don't want to kill people. I went through horrors you have no grasp of, just how bad they were. I am a perfect model of the raving lunatic who would have "a little tantrum and start shooting, stabbing, raping or whatever."

Naive, you call me? Oh no, I got pretty wise pretty quick with untrustworthy scum hanging off of me, sly tricks using me, and of course, peers who hated me because I didn't act like them, and be like them. I lost my naivety around the time of my innocence, which was early on in elementary school. Quite funny, how you always call me naive when I write so much, then ultimately ignore the greater parts of the arguments I make.

By the way, the right thing, or your thing? You don't know the right thing, and neither do I. That's why we need the Science, and the science to be active, open, honest, and of course, unbiased. Mercury looks good now, like "refrigerator mom" did way back when.

You yet again put what you hope would be my words in my mouth, so I can spit them back at you. There is no way to bring back the dead. You play that card with a note of trump. You lay your hands upon a moral high ground, and act as the old man mentoring the foolish, idiotic youth, telling him things, and speaking down upon him from on high.

I am getting fast sick of your inane, weak, pathetic arguments that I have no idea what I'm talking about. That Autistics are going to go mad and start shooting, stabbing, raping. That it's all a giant, F***ing conspiracy, aimed at making money off of Autism.

Flip the coin of the drug companies, and look at the therapies being offered by your side: HBOT, Lupron, Chelation. Here hese are, standing tall and proud, and being milked for cash. How much do these cost, and are their effects no more than side effects? The aid they offer not much more than causing minor changes in the blood-chemistry? You're dealing in anagesiacs(I think that's what one's called), hormones, oxygen-enrichment and pressure.

If you truly loved your child, and thought Autism was hell for them, would you not try near every method you could find? Would you try everything that didn't seriously harm your child? Would you not be promoting strong research, rather than defending weak research?

Where is your sense of right and wrong? Care you not over whom you step or stand upon, as long as your path is not hindered?

When the time comes when your son can read all of this stuff, these things you've written, will he not be horrified over some of the things you've said? Will he not be disgusted at your free-flowing libel, your stereotyping, your constant verbal abuse of those who find your view differing, who engage you in intellectual, political, religious, scientific, or moral discourse as you play their comments towards repeating the same tired statements, intersped with ideas that your son may become such a monster as to kill people and take innocent lives?

Every time you bring up Virginia Tech, or that stabbing, or other references to death, you are using it, and it is always an excuse that Autism was a cause. You try to scare people, saying your son, (your own son for christ sakes!) may decide to blow up Capitol! What are you trying to sneak by here!? An autistic committed VT, so all Autistics are violent murderers, is what you're saying. You're hiding in words, implying, but never taking any credibility for your words, staying behind a safe wall, throwing your trash over.
You are blatantly implying I have no right to speak on anything to do with this, making me out to be a child, mocking me, and generally labeling me whenever the chance arises.

Joeker said...

Fore Sam, from Derby Day: How'd the race go?

Next, Thoughts of suicide.
Perception, Fore, perception. All things are based on perception. The perception in my mind at that time was that my life wasn't worth living in such pain, and that suicide would make my family sad, but let everyone continueon. Plus, my mom would then only cry one more time over me, rather than when next she saw my bruised body, my cuts, my torn clothes, black eyes, and all the other things. I have to say, I'm glad I never managed it.

Googly: Yes, I did. I bookmarked it, and checked out a bunch of stuff on it. Thanks again for the link! =D

Keep trying, teaching, loving, and helping your... daughter, was it? Sorry, bad memory recall late at night. HBOT for oxygen problems, yes, I can see and support that. As well, I think it's great you're not investigating the drug-up concept. Persist, one day your daughter will indeed be able to reach her own median, a place where she's comfortable. Keep hope, for though times can be tough, independence is a worthwhile goal to set for her.

About the shooting, though, to speak on it. I'm glad you're of that opinion. I find it fairly odd that some of these actions, if done by those who're adults, there can be serious consequences, and of course, even jail time, but is considered by some schools or some school staff that it's a normal part of growing up, or acceptable.

James: People were insulting this Dr. Rimland, on the day he died? I'm shocked and disturbed. In my opinion, insulting the dead because of a simple differing viewpoint is one of the most vile and cowardly things to do. I sincerely regret his passing, though I don't know who he is. I find it shameful that these people on blogworld found it acceptable to do such things.

Watson: Surely you can derive it from the implications of the statement. Here, allow me.

Ok Watson, let me see if I have this straight. If a person with autism wants to be cured and has a college degree, they are ok. If a person with autism doesn't want to be cured and has a college degree, they don't really have autism. Please, set me straight.

There. Better? Or do you still wish to stall? I could translate it into 1337, if you want.

Fore Sam said...

Joeker, The horse I thought would win finished 18th. I'll have to answer your other stuff later.

watson said...

Joeker said...
Watson: Surely you can derive it from the implications of the statement. Here, allow me...

Joeker, I am not stalling. Let Anon answer the question. S/he asked me, not you.

Joeker said...

Ouch... Sorry to hear that. =(

Googlybear said...

Joeker,

The things that happened to you in school were not bullying. They were criminal acts called assault and battery. It seems when things happen to kids, they are called by different names. For instance, if a child is sexually assaulted, it is called molestation. If an adult is sexually assaulted, it is called rape. When kids are beat up by other kids it is called bullying, or kids being kids. If the same behavior happens in a public place it is called assault and battery, and is a criminal offense. Every child deserves to go to school and be able to learn without fear. Schools should be safe places for all.

Back when I was in high school, I read a book called Warriors Don't Cry by a woman named Melba Patillo-Beals. It is about the nine African American students who integrated an all white high school. It is a really sad story and I was shocked at how much the adults in the story were willing to let the kids endure as far as being abused.

Joeker said...

Watson: Just what the heck are you saying? Seriously, read what Anon wrote, read what I wrote, and then look into the question s/he asked YOU. They're not going to answer their own question, that would be absurd, no? In so far as much, it appears to me you need clarificaction on how Autistic individuals are referred to, as one of the terms like "Autie" "Autistic" and so on. You just want to seperate the Autsim from the question, divide the two like you wish they could be. You're not wanting to answer his question, so you're trying to duck it on a technicality of linguistics.
Coward.

And before you bash me over that little comment, look to the man you're defending. 3rd post. Look to what you concur with, what you're supporting, and tell me that I can't call you the same things that others are.

Open to most, if not all: In all things of society, the only way to win is to gain the heart of the people. You sure don't seem to be doing so well.

I'm fairly tired of being spoken down upon because I'm, in your minds, brain-damaged, young, arrogant, naive. You have no idea the personal struggles I've dealt with, the life I've lived, the things I've lived through. You dismiss me as a prideful, hotheaded youth with no more sense than a pup, and waggle your fingers at me, telling me off for things I've written that you yourselves have written. I differ in opinion, and let my words be read by all, and thus I am a villain in your eyes. I'm talking near-daily now, with people I find to be lewd, callous, and of the general consensus that no one with Autism ever fit in, ever truly had Autism if they achieved things like degrees, or jobs they could manage, or even simple solace in life. You tout about fresh, unproven scientific theorums as fact, and promote treatments which have no proven scientific backings, make absurd claims, and never follow your facts up with hard evidence.

I find you to be arrogant, single-minded, unhealthily obssessed upon a single thought, rude, vicious, sly, incapable of even trying to see other's opinions as positive unless they support you, and of course, try to lower every person who is autistic, or has a spectrum disorder, or who simply disagrees with you, in silly, childish word games.

I don't know why I keep posting on this blog. Perhaps it's the hope that I can change people, make them think in a logical fashion, share facts and knowledge, and let evidence freely demonstrate points. I'v found nought here but yet more bigotry, more misunderstanding, and a great deal of personal turmoil, related to being insulted by someone who has never been autistic, who has never had to suffer in the ways I have, who has never felt the utter pain of feeling that you're completely alone in your own kind of universe, cut off from other people, unable to reach out and touch what they all seem to know and share without even thoughts.

Today, I went uptown to the library on my lunch break. I picked up some manga, a bit of sci-fi, some fantasy, so on. I held the door for a middle-aged man on my way in, and an elderly woman on the way out. I went to a local bistro with friends, we had some fun talking before we all split up. I stopped by the local grocery store for my customary fare when I decide to splurge, curly fries, a bottle of Dr. Pepper, and fruit Mentos. Served by the same employee as most often, exchanged some words, was very polite. Lt other people into line for the daily special ahead of me, visited the same till, went through the common routine, left, while letting others go ahead of me. The train had gone throgh already, so I wasn't worried about going bugeyed and freezing, from the whistle and the train's loud rattling clanks. Stopped and waited for cars to go past, so I wouldn't interfere with their commutes, and found some friends to walk back with. Did some choice gags, and made them laugh quite a bit. Fun was had.

The moral of the story? I'm not Cho. I'm not the stabber. I'm not Seidel, or Dean, or Diva, or anyone you want to think I am. I fought long and hard to get where I am, more bitterly than you can know, and I will not have my life reduced to a hollow mockery by your words. When it comes to your desire to help your son, I applaud you. When it comes to the means of which you employ here, I revile you. If you'd care to take notice, I'm not what you think I should be, or want me to be, or know to be. You cannot grasp just who I am, what I am, the very essence of who I am as a person, and so you try to assign lables to me, yet I simply tear them off and throw them back. You keep placing words into my mouth, and I spit them back at you. I keep dfending myself, and my opinions, and my actions, against one who defends his with an "I'm right, you're wrong, I'm big, you're small, I win you lose, deal with it" attitude.

I'm only at this level because I fought for it, I learned, I became an information sponge, learned how to do things you can do withot thinking. Being polite. Not taking over conversations. Not monolouging on topics people don't enjoy as I do. Involving tone in my voice, and knowing the give and take of conversations. Being able to have a relationship. I'm stil learning that one, my girlfriend initiated the relationship, and because she wanted to date other people, and found me desirable as a boyfriend. I'm still trying to figure it out, and I'm not sure if it's going at all, let alone well.
You don't realize my words as I tell you I'm a writer, a well-liked writer, one who has inspired someone else to take up the pen, and I, this writer, am preparing submissions for a contest, as well as readying materials with which to create my first book. You ignore my achievements to harp upon my failures, and concentrate upon only the worst of Autism. I tell you now, I am truly understanding why so many people seem to hate you with a passion.

Joeker said...

Googly: I have to say, I concur. One of the main points whenever I talk on things to do with bullying, and abuse in schools, is that it's wrong. I'm very happy you share views with me on the state of schooling.

One of the most bitter pills of it all was having it dismissed as "Boys will be boys." I truly have come to despise that statement, for it embodies the apathy of my school's educators, the duties teachers should have to their students, and a secure school enviroment for all.

I find irony that what we teach, that the strong crush the weak, and those who are smart are lower than dirt, and so on, yet all these things are reversed when you enter the real world. If you do the things that were allowed, even encouraged in your elementary school, in regular life, you'll quickly find yourself disliked and ostracized, much like they did to those who now do it to them.

I didn't get this, and I hope to work on achieving this later in life, to try to stop this cycle of pain which was inflicted upon me, and is still being inflicted upon others. One of the reasons I came to become so involved with the commenting on this blog was the fact there was a mention and de-valuing of bullying and more powerful abuses, are ultimately insignificant in the face of Autism. Bullying is far more easier to solve than Autism, and much more rewarding to all if it were solved, as not just people on the Autistic spectrum would benefit.

I'll try to find that book, it sounds like an interesting, if saddening read.

Fore Sam said...

Joeker, I allow you to post your rants here in the hope that you will learn something. It doesn't matter to me what you say about me. I don't care about all of your particular problems.
This blog is concerned with spreading the truth about autism, that it is mostly caused by mercury and that it is curable.
So rant all you want, bash people all you want, it's all immaterial. You just keep proving my point every time to talk about your difficulties. The point is, kid, that you'd be better off cured. Then your problems that are related to autism or Asperger's would be over.

james said...

Joeker,
You said this to watson.

"Open to most, if not all: In all things of society, the only way to win is to gain the heart of the people. You sure don't seem to be doing so well."

I can't speak for anyone else here, but I think watson's doing a great job.

Joeker said...

James: Sorry, I should have specified it was mainly towards Fore Sam. My apologies for confusion.

Fore: I'd be better off being treated like a human being, sir. My problems don't stem from Autism, they stem from being reviled as a broken person, a brain-damaged person, and to be stereotyped as but what you think I can do, am doing, was doing, and will be doing. How bitter your words ring to someone you consider to be a useless junker, a lemon, a train wreck, something broken that you want to fix, who has survived a terrible childhood, come out alive and content, and who has grand ambition and plans for a degree, with a life spent in doing what he loves. Writing.

I'd give you links to my writing, but I'm afraid of the spam you may put up, or the livid comments that will appear on whatever I have written that you find to be somehow lacking, or otherwise unfit, in your mind.

I never wanted you to care about my personal problems. I don't want anyone's pity. I posted only personal stories if I felt they helped to prove my points, or felt they would help someone. I am grateful that I can relate to Googly on several things, and for the courtesy he's shown me.

Instead of open debate, transparency, I found but petty arguments. I'm starting to lose interest in posting here at all, since whenever I do, I'm met with scorn and insults, stereotypes and generalizations, facts of opinion alone, and much patronization, reduced to a scruffy kid.

Have you ever written poetry? It is a beautiful thing. Exquisite in it's simplicity and difficulty, both inviting and forbidding, and so sweet to taste...
Kind, cruel, and everything in between.
Have you ever felt words stir within you, itch their way from pen to paper, and flow forth delicately, akin to a spring of ink? Have you ever written things of beauty and majesty, elegant and fine in their sounds and sight?

I write poems, and love it. This is my greatest passion. To write, and what I will do with my life.

This is what I want, and what I will do. Call me whatever you want, for I care not what kinds of things you'll say. I will achieve my dreams, turn them into a reality. I do hope you're not too choked up about it.

Ciao for now,
~Joeker

watson said...

Joeker said...
Watson: Just what the heck are you saying? Seriously, read what Anon wrote, read what I wrote, and then look into the question s/he asked YOU.

Joeker, I'm still waiting for a definition of "an autistic" from Anon. I want clarification before I answer, and your giving me a substitution is just not good enough.

I'm not sure why you are waiting for me to "bash you", and I'd like you to point out exactly where I have bashed you about anything you've said. I told you not to worry about a cure being forced upon you, remember?

But, seeing as you've started with the insults and name-calling, I'd like you to know that all I'm hearing from you, over and over and over again, is how tough life has been for you, how sorry you are for yourself how great your autism is, and how you don't want to be cured. And, quite frankly, in future I will avoid reading your long self-indulgent messages, because I don't care to read about your superior autistic intellect, your friends, the great day you had gallivanting around town, and hanging out with your mates and how you made them laugh with the great jokes you can tell, nor about the bright and successful future you have ahead of you. Now why would that be? Because I envision my son doing all of the everyday things you seem to take for granted, and I imagine how he would have been able to have friends, freedom and a bright future if vaccines hadn't damaged his brain, and destroyed his life and his potential. I don't want to keep being reminded of that.

If we hadn't done what our doctor told us to do, our son would have led an ordinary life - which was his g_d given right. I don't need you telling me to accept and love my vaccine-injured autistic child the way he is because as "an autistic" you are the expert and therefore know exactly what life is like for him. You can't possibly know. His experiences are not yours, Joeker, and just because you're somewhere 'on the spectrum', doesn't mean you're anything like him.

I post here because John is as outraged by ND philosophy as I am , and I believe, as he does, that vaccines triggered the Autism epidemic. And by Autism, I mean just that. I don't mean an epidemic of mentally ill people, Nerds, Geeks, and Aspie academics identifying with some aspects of the disorder who think they have Autism, which is what it has become.

I don't agree with everything John says, but I do enjoy his directness and his humour, and I hope that he will continue fighting for the rights of parents to treat their children disabled by autism in whatever way they feel is right and necessary. We shouldn't be accused of not loving our children because we don't embrace their disability, nor abuse simply because we choose to treat disabling symptoms. Giving our children lots of love and support, and showing them the world, as you say your parents did with you, is not enough. As James has said, parents of children with autism know their children better than anyone else.

It occurs to me that you've never met a child severely disabled by their autism, and that all the knowledge you have has been from your own personal experience and gleaned from ND, so perhaps reaching out to people less fortunate than yourself who are also on the spectrum, and seeing how they live IRL would help you to be less self-absorbed.

Googlybear said...

Watson,

I thought I knew everything and was very rigid in my beliefs when I was Joeker's age, 18. Now at the old age of 34, I realize that book knowledge and a higher than average IQ does not translate into life experience and perspective, which comes with age. I believe he will think much differently on things in 10 years.

I do though think it would do Joeker good to volunteer some time working with a group like ARC (Association for Retarded Citizens) or whatever the equivalent is in Canada. Go into the homes of lower functioning adults and spend some time with them. I think it would expand his horizons. After high school, I went to work for an organization similar to ARC and it really grew me up in many ways and brought me to a whole other level of compassion.

Googlybear said...

I am grateful that I can relate to Googly on several things, and for the courtesy he's shown me.

I'm a woman. :D
-------------------------

Speaking of women, I was perusing Autism Diva's site and was again annoyed by how she speaks in the third person. Maybe I should write in the third person.

Maybe Googlybear should start a blog where Googlybear writes about the things that piss Googlybear off. LOL! Like people who want to make it illegal for Googlybear to take Googlybear Jr. to a DAN doctor.

Still growling,
Googlybear

james said...

Googlybear,
"Speaking of women, I was perusing Autism Diva's site and was again annoyed by how she speaks in the third person. Maybe I should write in the third person."

It is James' opinion, that as many people know, autistics have difficulties in the area of 'sense of self' and often refer to themselves in the third person.
Autism Diva is the only person James has came across on any autism blogs who does this.
James thinks this is very much a case of "overkill" in Divas attempts to appear autistic to everyone. She has it down pat, but doesn't realise that no other autistics on the net that are doing this.
She's just too obvious.

mad madj said...

Fore Sam: despite your bullying manner and disrespectful attitude you do come up with some interesting links and ideas. I do not know any of the ND people, i have no stake in all of the personal quibbling that goes on here, i just want to know if you are enough of an alternative medicine believer to be open to medical cannabis, another heavy-handed government smackdown of one of the kindest and most useful medicines God gave us. great for many autistic problems such as anxiety, nausea, gastrointestinal upset, focus, sleep difficuties, spasms and tics, etc.
Not related to mercury in any way. But a useful medicine that is also demonized and misunderstood by the allopaths.
peace!

Googlybear said...

She has it down pat, but doesn't realise that no other autistics on the net that are doing this.

My 10 year old daughter doesn't do this. LOL! She stopped doing it around age 5 when she stopped toe walking and toilet trained. I wonder if Diva is toilet trained.

watson said...

Googly, As I read through your posts, I find myself nodding in agreement. You're right, again. As the saying goes, "You can't put an old head on young shoulders."

And another one that springs to mind is, "Walk a mile in my shoes."

Fore Sam said...

Mad Madj, I'd rather see autism cured than to allow it to be managed with drugs. I also wouldn't give it to a kid. Some pot might be good for some of the loonier neurodiverse. Their brains are already fried so it couldn't make them any worse.

Fore Sam said...

Googly, Wade Boggs, who had 3,000 hits and played for the Red Sox and Yankees talked about himself in the 3rd person a lot. Maybe Neuroinsanity could hire him as a spokesmodel instead of Amanda.

Googlybear said...

Wade Boggs would probably require alot of money to pose for pictures wearing the stupid t-shirts that Amanda wore. I'm not sure the ND could afford it even if they pooled all their disability checks.

Man am I snarky tonight. I guess that is what happens when we try to eat out as a family and it ends up being an interrogation session with the waiter on gluten and caesin, which pretty much sucks the life out of the food. Then the Autie child runs away mid meal to try and steal the hello kitty toy some kid just got out of a vending machine. Good times.

Fore Sam said...

Googly, I'd be happy if Sam just stole toys. He steals food from people's plates when we go out to eat and grabbed some guy's beer and started drinking it one night.
Boggs went on TV one night and claimed he was a sex addict after he had been caught cheating on his wife. He said it with a straight face and even claimed he was going to get treatment. If the ND's had got to him, he could have blamed it on autism and said he was celebrating his difference.

Googlybear said...

That cracked me up about your son stealing the beer. Kid knows what he likes. LOL! Brings back memories. We've had the food stealing happen too. She doesn't do it as often anymore. She has walked up to people in public and stole their drinks or food right out of their hands. Makes the gfcf diet near impossible sometimes. We have never been able to get personal posessions of others into her head. It absolutely does not connect. I'm not sure if she doesn't get it or she doesn't care.

Googlybear said...

If Boggs got cured from sex addictin and stopped cheating on his wife, he probably wouldnt' know who he was. We just have to understand his sexual diversity and support it with accomodations in the workplace. The workplace should understand he has these urges, and provide a bedroom on the premisis equiped with a prostitute for when the urge strikes. LOL! If his employer refuses, he needs to draw a parallel between his employers attitude towards his sex addiction and Hitler.

Fore Sam said...

Googly, Sam is getting good at distracting people to steal their food. We had some people over for dinner last week and Sam walked over to two of them, put his arms around their shoulders, gave them a big smile, then snatched some food off their plates.
Maybe Neurodiversity couldn't afford Boggs but Pharma would be happy to pay him to sell Viagra and Estee Klar could write about the joy of being a sex addict.

Googlybear said...

Sounds like Sam is quite the clever devil. They start getting better and then to our chagrin, less than desireable traits are learned along with the desirable. LOL!

Fore Sam said...

Googly, Maybe Sam will grow up to be a con man and get hired by Neuroinsanity.

Joeker said...

Since my first comment strangely hasn't gone up...

Fore: Like father like son.

Googly: My first attempt at a comment was censored by Fore, and so I post again.

I'm a woman. :D
Oops! My bad! ^.^'

I'm pretty certain what's being described here with this fellow, Boggs, is called a "Nymphomaniac" or something of the like...

Fore: All I really want is to be treated the same as everyone else. No special treatments, no special bonuses, just to be treated like anyone else. You fail to grasp that, and you still persist in censoring me when you see fit, and feel that I support those you dislike, like ND, or whoever you think I support at the moment. I'm not your enemy, but an un-amused third party. Your statements only serve to make me more and more dis-satisfied, and with every insult you dish out, I become more and more disgusted with you. I am a real person. Same with every person here. We have lives, friends, family, our own problems. And here you are, insulting anyone who comes your way who's not a loyal and faithful Mercury-supporter. If one of your loyal posters, the ones who comment often, began questioning if Mercury really was all there was, and began talking about other theories, you'd boot them, like you're trying to do with me, by writing me off as garbage.

The only garbage I saw was your "tactful" defence of your position by cutting off that doctor, and censoring my outrage that you'd insult someone who has taken the hippocratic oath, and become a Doctor.

Same old, same old. Can't take the heat, turn off the burners. Can't take the words, cut off the source.

By questioning whether or not this will appear, due to saying it's censorship, will ensure it's posting, just to make me look foolish for doubting it's posting, but ultimately, that's immaterial, if I'm able to convey what I want.

I don't hide behind comment moderation. I leave a trail, from my blog, to where I go on the internet. I don't cut and run when the going gets tough, I don't spend my time wooing others with hypocratic statements, and I sure as hell don't proscribe to the "one or the other" philosophy, or the "for us or against us" mentality.

Just accept that people have free will, and stop trying to destroy the credibility of everyone who isn't for you.

Focus on the positives of Chelation, show the positive changes within your son and others, and speak of how Chelation has helped, how good Chelation is, the benefts of Chelation, and that you feel Chelation is an excellent therapy, with superb results!

That's how you sell something. You don't help these kids by spewing bile at them or their parents, but by telling them the good that comes of Chelation, and that they can be helped by Chelation.

By writing all of these negative, offensive things, you help only delay what, by your knowledge, helps. You're hurting people, not helping them, by these actions. And the saddest part is, they're the people you set out to help, people like your son, other's daughters, and their sons.

If you want them to Chelate, don't insult them, don't talk down to them, don't act as if you have THE answer, but tell them Chelation helps, it helps many, and it helps your son. They don't want to hear you railing against Big Pharm, or Neurodiverse, they want information, and they want to know about Chelation.

This blog exists to speak the truth about Autism which is really mercury poisoning. The more people who know the truth, the closer we will be to wiping out this man-made epidemic.

Give them truth. Don't give them Amanda Baggs, don't give them Seidel, or Autism Diva, or whoever it is you're angry at at the moment. Give them what you promise.

If you must, seperate this into two blogs, one for the good of Chelation, and one for the insulting of whomever you're insulting. But do what you say you do, and promote Chelation, rather than spend your time insulting strangers.

Googlybear said...

Joeker,

I don't think being on this blog is healthy for you. That is my opinion. I think it is bugging you more than it should. Like you said, you are not on one side or the other. The reason I come here is that there are way more blogs spreading lies about biomed and biomed parents. That isn't your problem. It isn't your problem if Fore Sam fights back with his own blog. There are plenty of website, books and support groups that people can go to to learn about chelation in a kindly presented manner. I respect that you just want to live your life and be treated like everyone else. You have the skills to do just that. Most people in the neurodiversity movement have the skills and ability to do that also and I am not against them bringing awareness. The crux of the problem is, they pretty much forget the autistic population who does not have the skills and ability to be treated like everyone else and live life on their own terms. When they fight against biomed (which is more than just chelation), they fight against opportunities for autistic people who do need recovery in some or many areas from getting these treatments. That is unfortunate. It really isn't your problem if a few people want to discuss it on a blog. I think you are stressing yourself out and should just focus on graducating from high school. :D

watson said...

Joeker said...
The only garbage I saw was your "tactful" defence of your position by cutting off that doctor, and censoring my outrage that you'd insult someone who has taken the hippocratic oath, and become a Doctor.

Joeker, What makes you think that doctors still take the hippocratic oath?

Joeker said...

What, besides it being a part of the Graduation ceremonies?

By the by, I think I'll post that post on my blog, the one which was censored here...

Stop by to have a gander sometime, I'd like a chance to speak to you without the chance of being censored by Fore.

Anonymous said...

Remember Dr Good, or whatever he called himself when he posted here as a fake medical doctor, has been on Aspiesforfreedom as "Professor Murphy PHD, obsessing over "Autisim and the Hollow Earth, A hypothetical analysis"
It's quite funny. Many of the Aspies are quite skeptical of him.
The administrator asks: "have you spoken to a psychiatrist about possible psychosis at all or has anyone ever suggested this to you?"

After a while people start questioning wether he actually has a docorate.

In his introductory post Dr Murphy says:

"I found website about asperger's syndrome, which I myself was diagnosed with while still in college studying to become what I am today, I have been at it since 1993, going to school in the fall winter spring and summer, to achive my greatest goal in life my PH'D, ever since I was told I had this condition"
C. Murphy

"This guy is talking bollocks. I'll be honest and say that I don't believe that he actually has a doctorate."

Professor Murphy with the PHD who previously said: "I have been at it since 1993, going to school in the fall winter spring and summer" now says he got his PHD through a "corresponce masters and Doctorate program"

No-one has put two and two together and realised the major error in his story.

"So all I see here are mostly a bunch of naysayers, but critique is an essential part of any argument whether big or small, Yes I have a PH'D, I got it trough a corresponce masters and Doctorate program, Enabling me to progress much more rapidy than any colleigate institution could possibly do for me other wise, I did it myself, everyone has a right to being skeptical, many people have told me only a real collegr doctorate is legitmite, and not college by mail PH'D so let them laugh"

There's some strange folk about and it just goes to show, you should never automatically believe what you read.

Here's the link if you want a laugh.

http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/showthread.php?tid=8067&page=2

watson said...

Joeker said...
What, besides it being a part of the Graduation ceremonies?

So you believe that ALL doctors take the Hippocratic Oath in its original form, or one of the many updated versions of it? I think you should do some reading, Joeker...

The original Hippocratic Oath:
http://www.indiana.edu/~ancmed/oath.htm

Hippocratic Oath (1964):
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors/oath_modern.html

The Oath of Hippocrates (1993):
http://www.imagerynet.com/hippo.ama.html


The Charter on Medical Professionalism:
The New Hippocratic Oath? (2002)
http://www.pregnantpause.org/ethics/medprof.htm


Read Dr. R.E.B.'s response to the relevance of the Hippocratic Oath (2001):
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors/oath_010330.html


Some doctors are in it for the prestige, money, and life-style. They are not physicians, Joeker. Try calling a doctor after hours, or find out how many births are induced so as not to inconvenience the obstetrician.

Joeker said...

Anon: Hey, Anon! Did you look at any of his posts? Seriously, you compare writing like that to what he was supposedly writing? I like to call it: Punctuation. Oh, there wasn't only one graduation in 1993, and where does Dr. Good give out his information on his graduation? Not to mention you draw a comparison between Good and Murphy by finding an error in statements made ONLY by Murphy on AFF. Where'd Good enter the equation?

Watson: They still have a degree you can only wish you had, portraying yourself with the words and opinions of others, by copying things you find on other websites, letting the big-boys talk for you.
Not to mention, after having read the new charter, it is still more adequate than having said nothing at all.

Watson/open: In case you hadn't noticed, which you likely won't have, my responses to several things aren't getting through. Thus I am quite disappointed, and prone to snap at people who take my silences as more than simply being gagged by Fore.

watson said...

Joeker said...
Watson: They still have a degree you can only wish you had, portraying yourself with the words and opinions of others, by copying things you find on other websites, letting the big-boys talk for you.

Joeker, You came swiftly to the defence of DrThomas Good MD because he says he is a doctor, and you believe him, when you can't possibly know if he is a doctor or not.

You say that you were outraged that anyone would "insult someone who has taken the hippocratic oath, and become a Doctor" with a capital "D", so you obviously put doctors on a high pedestal. Would you have believed me if I told you that most medical graduates don't swear an oath of any description, and haven't done so for years? From the links I provided, let the "big boy" doctors, speak for themselves.

To many in this day and age, being a doctor isn't a calling, it's just a job.

Joeker said...

Three words: Medical Malpractice Lawsuits.

That's all I should need to say.