Tuesday, May 01, 2007

Neurodiversity Attacks the Geiers (Again and Again and Again)

Kathleen Seidel has launched another attack of character assassination on the Geiers. She also told us, indirectly, why every word she says should be completely ignored.

"As a student in library school many moons ago, ..." This is what Kathleen Seidel says about herself in her blog. So, we see that she is an old librarian.

In her latest stab at character assassination on the Geiers, she tries to claim that they are doing something wrong because their degrees don't match up with the work they do to cure autistic kids.

Thus, by Kathleen's own reasoning, she has disqualified herself from being able to offer any valid opinion on anything the Geiers do because she is an old librarian and not a scientist. She is also not a decent parent who helps autistic children. That also disqualifies her from being able to offer a valid opinion on the subject.

Thank you Kathleen for disqualifying your long-winded garbage from being worthy of consideration by anyone. Please stick to restacking books.

204 comments:

1 – 200 of 204   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

And this aimed at a person who you have issued death threats to.

How much are the Geiers paying you for this twaddle?

Fore Sam said...

When did I do that?

Googlybear said...

This is a bit off the topic, but Seidel is part of the problem, so I guess it fits. I found something funny yesterday. Neurodiversity claims that autism is not a disability, just a normal variation in brain wiring. Yet, yesterday was blogging against dis-ableism day. From two of the blogs "Today is blogging against dis-ableism day --the purpose of which is “to write about disability and rail against the discrimination that disabled people continue to face.” Appears that autism is only a disability when it serves neurodiversity's purpose and not a disability when we start talking about cures and recoveries. I'm truly baffled.

Fore Sam said...

Googly, That's part of the scam. They try to transfer the blame to society instead of putting it where it belongs, on the medical profession. We should alert Social Security to the fact that they don't think they're disabled so they can stop getting those checks.

Anonymous said...

Do you have something against librarians???

Fore Sam said...

Nope, I just think anyone who went to college to learn how to file books should stick to their area of expertise.

Joeker said...

I applaud your decision to employ censorship on your blog. Does it make you proud to block what you don't agree with?

An attack of character assination? My word, that must be a horrible act! Wait, what's this? Hm... You should re-read your blog, this doesn't seem logical... Character Assassination, being reviled, but then, oh surprise, being used. Wonderful, can't even be original about your politicking.

When it comes to ability and disability...
Autistics don't think like normal people. When it comes to the wide world of people, interaction is a struggle. Autistics aren't normal everyday neurotypicals, and thus aren't exactly well-equipped to live their lives.
However, Autism has positive effects as well. They may be a brilliant artist, a talented engineer, an amazing computer tech, and so on, yet be unable to fit in, and be ostracized by his or her peers.

One of the big reasons why Autism is a disability is because of bigots like you, who can't help but attack strangers, people you don't meet daily, or even weekly, and criticise all that doesn't fit in your perfect, definable, perfectly ordered world.

Let this comment onto your blog, or don't. I really don't care. But don't you dare presume to know my mind. It comes down to two things, really; Do you love your son, and accept him, or do you hate him and want to change him?

Fore Sam said...

Joker, Autism is a disability because it is recognized that autistics' brains don't work right. I can't be a bigot because I'm trying to make my autistic sons' brain work right.
If you were to have your brain repaired, you'd see how foolish you are for supporting Mrs Seidel in her quest to prevent any autistic people from receiving the help they need.

Anonymous said...

Just so we all know, there are lots and lots of brilliant people, artists, engineers, etc who are not autistic. Being autistic does not make you a genius. There is a real myth out there about that.

As for refusing to publish posts that do not bolster your pesonal argument, try sending Amanda Baggs something she does not agree with, you won't get space on her blog. Christcool, that idiot on Youtube who spends more time vidio taping his poor son than actually talking to the kid has blocked me from posting about his ridiculous videos. He interpretes perseveration as love.

Everyone does it.

This blog and the Families of Adult Afflicted with Asperger's are the only websites that make any sense.

Joeker said...

1) "Right" and "Different" are hardly the same. Can't you, rather than try to force your son to change, simply teach him? Show him the world, teach him right and wrong, and let him sort out what it is to be like everyone else? My parents didn't send me out to be trained like a dog, but taught me about life, and what it all entails. I have to say, it's been a wonderful alternative, as I am an Aspie intact, and a social person to boot. Combine, rather than quash. The results are rather surprising and positive.

2) I never said that it's only Autistics, or that ever autistic person is. "And so on" generally suggests much more after. The movie "Rainman" is one of the biggest roots of that myth.

Perhaps you should spend more time looking for websites?

1) I don't support Mrs. Seidel, but I sure don't support your statements. Can you even read yourself writing this stuff?

My brain repaired? You imply that there is something wrong with me. You just told me I'm broken. Well you know what? You, who aren't autistic, can never, in your wildest dreams, in all your accumulated knowledge, hope to ever realize what our minds are like. You think I'm broken? I am. I am broken by the bigotry of those around me, the hate coming at me from webpages, the people who despise me, revile me, believe I'm crazy, think I'm their lesser, and of course, the base and animalistic monsters who damn near drove me to suicide long ago, and nearly succeeded in killing me once. Go ahead and call me broken. One string of pixels arranged as letters can't compete with the likes of my past. And you know what? It was my Autism that kept me going, that helped me, that allowed me to persevere and come out of the worst days of my life. I learned many hard lessons, and grew up too fast, an adult in a childs body, shocking adults just by being polite and literate at an adult level. I found adults, full-grown men, whom weren't on my level intellectually. I broke, thanks to a living hell bestowed by my peers, and lost my innocence. Yes, I admit, I am broken. Not by Autism, but by society.

Once you taste your own blood, feel gravel inside your skin, smell the garbage smeared upon you, and hear your coming death in the darkness of a dumpster, unable to stir or call out for help, with a throat hoarse from screaming, will you truly come to grips with your own mortality.

I wasn't even ten.

Tell me again about foolishness, will you?

Googlybear said...

Anon,

Did you see the pathetic HBOT video Christcool made to try and discredit HBOT? Since he couldn't really find anything negative, he had to resort to showing nuclear blasts and the same clips of a kid looking upset getting in and wearing a helmet. Then he puts some lyrics about why can't we just love or some such thing. Which proved absolutely nothing against HBOT, but did prove what a spin doctoring bunch he is part of.

Anonymous said...

I have looked all over the web for support and information about autism/aspergers, but I no longer bother to look at Christcool's obsessive videos. He claims to be fighting for acceptance for his child then splatters the poor kid all over the web saying, "look at the aspie!"

There's a lot of trash out there.

I dearly love the aspies in my life, but not the autism. It is not part of them. Autism is not who they are. They are people with a disability.

I have said some angry things about Asperger's in my frustration, but it is the condition/disability and not the people that make me angry. The idiots who try to make it seem that it is not a disability make me angry.

If autism is not a disability why does it cause such chaos in peoples lives?

Googlybear said...

Joeker,

I really am sorry you went through what you did as a child. I'm always so scared my child will go through something like that. Fortunately, they are teaching more tolerance in schools these days. Years ago, I took my child to a park and a group of kids started ganging up. Threw rocks and dirt, ran my kid off the play equipment and my poor child just said, "I'm sorry" and laid down on the ground. The stupid parents just sat there and didn't say a thing to their kids. When I approached them to tell them to get their kids under control, I was so angry, if I hadn't of had a child to get out of that park, I would probably have kicked both their sorry asses.

That being said, I think you are attacking the wrong group here. Nobody here really hates autistic people. I hate the fact that my child has so many difficulties to overcome and for me, love means to take some kind of action to improve the situation. I, like many other parents, feel that finding a way to recover our children is showing them love. I also blame myself alot, for things I shouldn't have allowed to happen, like letting my child get vaccinated really young or on the recommended schedule. When I see my child get picked on, I know I am partially to blame and it is my job to rectify the situation which at this time is via diet and biomed interventions. i have no problem with autistic people, just a small subset of people, who are not all autistic, who has taken it on themselves to oppose me and other parents from doing what we feel is best for our own children.

the informer said...

John, this comment is of interest - from Phil's website.

Librarians are very knowledgable on the contents of the books they look after. They have to be to do their job properly. Now Kathy would have learnt this, and this would give her the research skills way beyond Fore Sam's! And probably the Geiers as well! I'd go as far as to say that Kathy's research skills BECAUSE she is trained that way would make her BETTER qualified to comment than quacks like the Geiers!

Interesting point of view! What do you think? Any validity? Or more clutching at straws?

Fore Sam said...

Informer, No, Phil's ranting has no validity. Seidel is a muckraker not a researcher.

Anonymous said...

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=25879

The story of Qazi and Asperger Syndrome, His insights on life and feelings about Autism

Alan E. Moses
May 2, 2007

I received an e-mail from a young man in Pakistan concerning my stories about the Viginia Tech tragedy. Qazi Fazli Azeem a 25 year old self described Asperger savant. He mentioned that he read similarities with himself and shooter Cho Seung-hui. The similarities that he felt with the inability to communicate with peers and how he too was treated in return a half a world away.

Being a savant has had some positive aspects for Qazi such as his super memory, hyperlexia (High speed reading). This has given him the ability to learn and understand at a phenomenal rate. He has been a graphic designer since age 11 and despite his young age is developing an enormous resume.

On the other hand there have been negatives including dyscalculia (inability to comprehend abstract maths), Myopia (severely near sighted), Atopic dermatitis (rashes and skin sensitivity that he believes have cleared up due to 1000 mg of vitamin C), Displexia (motor skill clumsiness that wouldn’t allow him to play sports or drive), Restless Leg Syndrome that make his legs to be in constant motion while sleeping, Tinnitus or what we know as high powered hearing and any noise awakens him at night.

Qazi remembers being very hyperactive as a child while consuming many refined sugars and sweets. He also noted that bread and milk seem to muddle his thoughts so these too are now avoided.

As some have described with Cho, Qazi also says that he avoids eye contact and will ignore others or what they are doing. He remembers being bullied throughout his school years. There were a couple of times that this caused him to go into a rage. However those close to him say that they never see him angry. And this has caused them to believe that one day he will just explode. Qazi blames part of this rage he has hidden due to a bi-polar manic depressive state not uncommon in Aspergers. Believing that the inability to communicate feelings with others. A lack of friends due to missing social cues and his obsession with subjects that most ignore has caused him to become isolated even further.


Qazi will tell you that he could care less about personal relationships as he says “I have none”. He only develops professional relationships and never goes beyond business terms. He won’t allow anyone to get too close. He fails to understand how to create or maintain friendships. In his past this has caused him to contemplate suicide as he felt so alone and not understood. In the past years he became aware that he was in fact not alone as there are others like him and he is looking forward to the day that he will meet other savants who he can relate to. This has changed his way of looking at the world and himself.

When I asked Qazi what he did for a living I was stunned. Remember he is only 25 years old. He has 14 years of hardcore industry experience as a graphic designer and lists companies such as. American Express, Travel Services Pakistan, Pakistan International Airlines, Movenpick of Switzerland a division of Nestle Switzerland in Pakistan. Nandos, visiting faculty member Department of Computer Science University of Karachi, Also teaches design and multimedia at Arena multimedia centre in Karachi. He also does freelance work making multimedia animations and marketing campaigns for multinational companies. Qazi is also a founding board member of Pakistanisraelpeace.org. This is a civilian group that wishes to normalize relations with Israel. Webmaster for the Moderates International group (www.moderates.com.pk) this group calls for moderation in the world and opposes extremism. And Qazi is now becoming an advocate for autism awareness in Pakistan.

When I came to the subject of neurotoxins through vaccines Qazi does feel that this has contributed to the rise in Autism. He tells of a cousin who regressed after a vaccine to the point that he lives in a home for the mentally impaired. He told me of his father’s family being in the printing business that includes ink that is known to have lead, cadmium, mercury and chromium as ingredients. His father’s family has many with Aspergers. I was also told of the pesticides that are used without any regulations and how the crops that are not consumed by people are fed to dairy cattle. In turn the milk produced is fed to the children.

I thought that maybe it was best to just have Qazi’s own words explain his feelings about Asperger Syndrome and Autism.

“The word Asperger Syndrome and Autistic Savant are the things the media has picked up on, Aspergers are people who can communicate yet have social and behavioral problems, autistic savants are otherwise unable to communicate yet have an ability which makes people label them as "gifted" eg large memory, fast mathematical calculation ability, artistic abilities etc. An Asperger Savant is a combination of both of these. Almost superhuman levels of abilities, see my website www.fazliazeem.com, see the interview videos, and the things I have done, I am currently 25 years old. The things written on my website are not even 10% of what I can do or have done till now. It is ironic that the system I live in discourages me, eg I cannot do research on anything unless I am a PhD, I could not skip or take alternative subjects in my university degree program due to my dyscalculia, I was called strange due to my obsession in things like history and comparative religion, both of which are not socially discuss able topics. People get jealous of my abilities and try to discourage me, or they think I am showing off when I tell them what I do (after they ask me what I do).”

”Autism is evolution. Not the low functioning kids who can’t talk, these are those who are reacting to neuro-toxins produced by their stomachs due to mercury and pesticide in foods. Look at any great historical figure, from the Prophets, the great mathematicians, artists, scientists, almost any historical figure who have something great to contribute to how we live in the world today, from Einstein to Bill Gates, study their lives and you will see behavior typical of Aspergers Syndrome. Aspergers Syndrome is not a new thing, great people from as far back as 4000 years ago had classical symptoms. It is purely genetic, passed on in families, and where there is AS there are cases of schizophrenia, depression/bi polar disorder, mental retardation, to me these are clear indications of a genetic mutation, and that’s what evolution is, genetic mutation to become better combatant in the "natural selection" process spoken about by Sir Charles Darwin. The low functioning and regressive people are the causalities of Autism, those people who cannot throw out or chelate the heavy toxin laced food in this corporate/capitalism driven world, where mass production and money mean more than safety. If such children also had access to a safe environment and toxin free food, they would also become people with Asperger Syndrome/ high functioning autism. The world must realize this before it is too late, the Autism society of America has said that 1 in 100 children have an Autistic Spectrum disorder in the US in 2006. Pay attention to what the Aspergers Syndrome individuals have to say

Joeker said...

Anon, Tell me, if you lived your life with your eyes covered in a blue lens, or whichever colour you prefer, and then, suddenly, without warning, had them torn from you? You might very well go mad from the sheer confusion.

Do you understand what you're speaking of? There is no seperation. Implying that Autism is something minor, a mere sickness that can be cured, that doesn't effect the indivdual's life or personality?

"Autism is not who they are. They are people with a disability."

Autism has shaped them, is shaping them, and does shape you. You may as well compare it to growing up in a spanish culture, and speaking fluent french.

Your last question? Simple. Autism is a disability, and also an ability. We try to focus on the positives when we talk about it, and sometimes we try to focus on the negatives. Would you bring up slavery if you were trying to keep every other race from killing the whites for being who they are or were? We look to positives because we need to counter the negative. You say we're damaged, we say we're different. You say we're whole, we say we're different. I'm amazed at how many people don't grasp the concept that being Autistic is like being normal, it has it's ups, and it's downs.

The chaos stems from the confusion, and Autism is always the blame, even for others actions. The youth couldn't help but beat up the weird kid. The teacher couldn't help but try to make the child learn through a harsh, humiliating lesson. The parent can't help but lament the tragedy to befall them. The professional can't help but perscribe them to a degrading kind of forced personality modification. And all this time, we cry when alone, and wonder just why they can't simply leave us alone, leave us be, just let us learn how to be like everyone without having to pay for the lessons in pain and shame.

We know only what we learn, and most learn right off that people are callous, uncaring, self-serving individuals, afraid of what we represent, and who we are, and punish us for not being them.

Fore Sam, I did some research myself upon their study, as posted by Entrez PubMed, and found some intiguing things...

Straight from the study: "Significant improvements in sociability, cognitive awareness, behavior, and clinical symptoms/behaviors of hyperandrogenemia were also observed."

Hyperandrogenemia? Just what does that have to do with Autism? This is unrelated to what Autism is. Hyperandrogenemia is when there are so many androgens in the blood, that... *sigh* Just look it up. And that is somehow a "symptom" of Autism? Yeah right.

The study, of course, is a valid study, but where are these miracles? We hear of these many children "cured" of Autism, but where are they? Are they real? Or are they the same as that Eli Lilly, or whoever it is you believe doesn't exist. I'd like to see these kids, know they're real. But the question is, are these children really cured, or just trotted out, looking normal, then tucked back into the parent's arms, to be hidden from the public eye?

I'm not hiding, and I refuse to back down and hide, so here's my thought on the matter of curing Autism: Has it actually happened, or does it theoretically sound nice?

Googlybear said...

Anon,

I finally got a chance to come back and read the article you posted. I think Quazi is pretty much right on the money.

It is purely genetic, passed on in families, and where there is AS there are cases of schizophrenia, depression/bi polar disorder, mental retardation, to me these are clear indications of a genetic mutation, and that’s what evolution is, genetic mutation to become better combatant in the "natural selection" process spoken about by Sir Charles Darwin.

That is my mother's side of the family and my husband's father's side. He forgot though that ADHD, learning disabilities like dyslexia and asthma/allergies are also common in these families.

The low functioning and regressive people are the causalities of Autism, those people who cannot throw out or chelate the heavy toxin laced food in this corporate/capitalism driven world, where mass production and money mean more than safety.

YES!! This is what I have been trying to say but not doing a good job of it. Unfortunately, sometimes benefits (alot of autistics are highly intelligent) can come with downsides (metabolic and immune problems to name a few).

Joeker said...

Well, I must say, this has certainly cleared many things up for me, and also between you and I, Googly.

I must say, you've all helped me understand more of Autism than I knew before. I feel we've come to an understanding, no?

I'm glad for the benefits, and I take the downsides in stride. All things are but transitory, and can last only so long.

I'm glad that we're really starting to communicate. =)

Googlybear said...

Joeker, yes. Sometimes I can get a bit reactionary in my writing and I don't think I come off well when I write sometimes. I get too hung up on making sure that I get the details right and sometimes the communication gets lost. I haven't had very many opportunities to speak to older people with autism who are verbal.

watson said...

John, I really don't believe that Kathleen Seidel is just a librarian. Do you think she might be the daughter of Professor Paul Gilles and pediatrician Dr Helen Gilles?

http://www.oread.ku.edu/Oread04/Feb20/inmemory.html
"Paul W. Gilles, 83, Lawrence, died Feb. 12. Gilles graduated from KU with a bachelor’s degree in chemistry in 1943, then earned a Ph.D. from the University of California-Berkeley. Gilles returned to KU as an assistant professor in 1947 and later became one of the first four distinguished professors at KU. He retired in 1990. He is survived by his wife, Helen Martin, Paola; a son, Timothy K., Brooklyn, N.Y.; two daughters, Rebecca Richardson, St. Paul, Minn., and Kathleen Seidel"


Judging by that background it would seem very likely to me.

If she's the same person, she was a romance novelist who called herself Kathleen Gilles Seidel...

http://www.boomergirl.com/stories/2006/mar/27/novelist_breaks_date_romance/
Novelist breaks date with romance turns affections toward mother-daughter relationships - March 27, 2006

"Kathleen Gilles Seidel is breaking up with romance novels."

"Now she wants to distance herself from that genre."

"Seidel, who lives in Arlington, Va., didn’t set out to be a romance novelist. She got a doctorate in English from Johns Hopkins University and figured she would teach for a living like her father, the late Kansas University chemistry professor Paul Gilles."

"Seidel’s mother, pediatrician Helen Gilles, says she got plenty of quizzing about why her daughter would choose a genre some consider smut."

"“They raise their eyebrows,” Helen Gilles says. “They can’t understand why an intelligent person with a Ph.D. would write that.”"

It they're one and the same, do you think Seidel has just turned to a different kind of smut?

Anonymous said...

Watson, aka, John who fixes broken lamps for Droopy, what's your "beef?"

I have a picture of Kathleen and that woman doesn't look anything like her, unless there was some sort of "face-off" transplant.

endersdragon said...

Just curious you are always saying that autism is just a disesse yadayadayada... so I assume you have a degree that makes you qualified to make such a comment.

watson said...

Anonymous said...
Watson, aka, John who fixes broken lamps for Droopy, what's your "beef?"

Huh?! I don't know Droopy, and if you read what John and I have written about our children, you'll see that we can't possibly be the same person.

The name isn't the only similarity. Both Seidels have two daughters who'd be about the same age.

I have a picture of Kathleen and that woman doesn't look anything like her, unless there was some sort of "face-off" transplant.

Pictures.. hmmm. (rolleyes)

Anon, Google Kathleen Seidel, and tell me why there are no references to her before her website started up in 2004.

By now, her daughter - the "autistic kid" that Amanda refers to - is about 17, so Seidel has had years and years of living with the disorder. It's obvious that she likes to write, so don't you think that having a special interest in autism, she would have written something somewhere about the subject, or her daughter, before that time? Why the silence?

Seidel says on her website that she has a special interest in the subject because one of her daughters has "an autistic spectrum diagnosis" and she "also has other family members on the spectrum". Now what exactly does she mean by that?

Now her daughter, Felix, describes herself as an Aspie, and, according to her father, she skipped grade 7 and passed middle school with high honors, so quite obviously she's a very clever girl - and Seidel has never lived with Autism.

I don't doubt that her daughter has traits, she might even have a diagnosis of Aspergers, but for Seidel to give the impression that she knows about Autism because she lives with it, and for her friend Amanda Baggs to describe Seidel's daughter as "the autistic kid", is in my view, deceitful.

I know what I see when I picture a child with autism or an "autistic kid". What do you see? And what does John see?

The face of autism is being distorted. And I would say that it's being done deliberately.

Anonymous said...

The people who live with autistics every day are the experts on autism, not the doctors who diagnose it and then go home.

If a thing disrupts everyday life, requires special attention, diagnosis, hospital visits, special ed. etc, then it is a disease.

That's my opinion. I'm sure John will be happy to give you his.

Even if a disease is genetic in origin, and that's 'if'-it is still a disease.

Fore Sam said...

Watson, There must have been more money in writing smut than teaching. I'd like to know how much she gets paid to attack the Geiers.

edison said...

Watson, that's very interesting. Where do find this information? I want to know more about this loony woman.

Googlybear said...

Hey John,

This doesn't fit with the topic but I have no way of emailing you. You an post this comment or just use the information for a future blog entry.

Have you seen the Autistic Adult Picture Project? http://www.isn.net/~jypsy/AuSpin/a2p2.htm Notice how there are no low functioning or even moderately functioning autistic adults represented. Maybe I missed some. It seems that most of the people pictured are adults, mostly asbergers, who were diagnosed as adults, some as teens. I haven't clicked on all of the pictures, but I haven't found one yet that said they were diagnosed as a young child. So why are the neurodiverse excluding their more debilitated members? Why are they not scouring the group homes and institutions to get pictures and information from non-verbal, low functioning adults. Don't they want to celebrate the full spectrum?

This really pisses me off. Go to page 1, the man on the third line, third one in. He looked like he might be lower functioning so I clicked on him. Turns out he is a married man who is a father to to adopted children and until recently held a job as a computer programmer. Apparently he was diagnosed with Asbergers or HFA in his late 40's or early 50's. Until that time he was obviously well enough to pass the rigorous checks put on families that adopt and was managing to hold down a good job. Now he is on disability because his job wouldn't provide autism accomodations. This is what pisses me off, people who can obviously function finding some quack to diagnose them with some mysterious disability so they can go live on social security. This is the kind of bullshit that is making a mockery of autistic people with REAL disabilities who really need disability because they are not going to be able to get a career.

Then these people who suddenly are autistic later in life when they want disability or whatever; are not too autistic to stop living a normal and free life when it suits. These are the people fighting against children who will never have any of these opportunities they have, getting recovered from autism. They fight against biomed and slander DAN doctors because they are afraid that if someone starts recovering autistic children, they will wonder why these late in life onset adults are refusing to get cured so they can go back to their normal lives and stop leeching off the social security system.

In my opinion when normally functioning people suddenly become "autistic" in later life, they are not really autistic, they usually suffered some kind of nervous breakdown, onset of a mental illness, or have onset of alzheimers or dementia. But I don't see any late diagnosis people claiming those less acceptable disorders.

I have mellowed over the past couple days, but after seeing this I am flat out pissed. You were right all along John, neurodiversity is a scam, and their goal is to supress the truth about what autism really is. They don't care about autistic people. They certainly don't care about people like my daughter or your son. Thank God for the Bernie Rimland's, DAN doctors and Curbie parents of the world.

Well, I gotta go stop my daughter from eating paper and melon rind, and try to direct her to edible food.

Fore Sam said...

Googly, I think they have a few low functioning people in that thing. Isn't Phil Schwartz and David Andrews on there, as well as Autism Diva?
My email is bettwice33@juno.com
I can't do a post using the pictures or Janet Norman Bain will sue me.

Googlybear said...

No need to use the pictures, just directing people to the site is enough. Parents who live with autistic children and adults every day will quickly discern the truth. I do believe there are some on there who are autistic or aspergers. But a good majority, I honestly don't know what they are thinking. Granted, I haven't read every single entry, but I have not yet read one where the person claims to have been diagnosed between ages 1-5, who talks about growing up with special supports or anything like that. Contrary to neurodiverse belief, it is possible to not be autistic, but still be socially awkward, obsessed with a hobby, weird, technically bright or shy. These adults are saying they are assessed according to DMS-IV criteria. They seem to forget the part in the criteria where the symptoms show up before age 3. Nobody can tell me that someone who was able to hold a job until his 50's, get married and adopt children had symptoms before age 3. He would have been branded special needs and something would have shown up in the rigorous checks they do on prospective adoptive parents.

Fore Sam said...

That guy you mentioned looks like he's drunk. How about the one in the bottom right corner with the screwy hat? He looks dangerous.

Googlybear said...

I found Phil Schwartz. His daughter is a cousin. Whatever. Which one is Autism Diva?

I did find one who is actually low functioning and whose pic and info was submitted by his father.

I found another woman who says she normal like eveyrone else but just a bit different. Everyone is a bit different from everyone else. It's called being an individual. There are real autistic people there. But I believe there are alot who are stretching the diagnostic criteria into ambiquity.

Anonymous said...

I see "oddizm" has a new pic of herself.
Just charming....
It's amazing how much she looks like autism diva.

Fore Sam said...

http://www.isn.net/~jypsy/AuSpin/oddizm1.htm
This one says Oddizm which might be the Diva. Maybe this is her 30 years ago.

Fore Sam said...

http://www.isn.net/~jypsy/AuSpin/kassi1.htm
This one appears to be flapping. Maybe she's one of the low functioning ones.

watson said...

Fore Sam said...
Watson, There must have been more money in writing smut than teaching. I'd like to know how much she gets paid to attack the Geiers.

Well, something is motivating her. Of course, she might be doing background research for a new book.

Books about autism have become very popular in the last few years, and if she includes all types of "neurodiverse" disorders such as Autism, High Functioning Autism, Asperger's Syndrome, ADHD, ADD, Tourette's, Dyspraxia, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Bipolar and Dyslexia, with 1 in 6 children currently with a neurological disorder of some kind, she could make a fortune.

And I've no doubt whatsoever that a book celebrating neurodiversity while a the same time promoting the safety of vaccination would get wholehearted support from Big Pharma. There's big money to be made from drugs to treat behaviours caused by neurological damage, caused by vaccines.

Fore Sam said...

Watson, I doubt she could have a book published. She can't even write a blog entry that doesn't put people to sleep. Maybe she could collaborate with Amanda. Between the two of them their effort would cure insomnia better than any drug. But then, that would be unfair to insomniacs who are celebrating the joy of not sleeping.

Anonymous said...

"Maybe this is her 30 years ago." LOL.
She looks like she's been sucking lemons.
And the only flapping Kassiane does is with her mouth.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, I wouldn't speculate on what she was sucking.

watson said...

edison said...
Watson, that's very interesting. Where do find this information? I want to know more about this loony woman.

Edison, You can find information by using a search engine like Google. (just in case you didn't know)

Here are some links...

David Seidel's website and some background history to Neurodiversity.com:
http://www.superluminal.com/dave/weblog/archives/000448.html

About Kathleen Seidel:
http://www.neurodiversity.com/aboutus.html

Look for the Seidel family in the signatures here:
http://www.isn.net/~jypsy/AuSpin/ournames.htm


Read about the Seidels here:
http://www.superluminal.com/dave/weblog/archives/cat_personal.html


Baggs mentions the "autistic kid" here:
http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=226


Here's Seidel attacking the AAPS:
http://www.overlawyered.com/2006/03/american_association_of_physic.html#comments

Googlybear said...

ADHD, ADD, Tourette's, Dyspraxia, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Bipolar and Dyslexia

Interestingly, though these are "on the spectrum" disorders, I've never met anyone with one of these disorders who is celebrating and wouldn't welcome relief from their disorder. There are no ADD adults celebrating their Focusing-Diveristy. There is nobody with Tourettes celebrating their Verbal Control-Diversity. I haven't met any people with bi-polar who is happy that their life revolves around whether their brain is in an up/manic phase or a down/depressed phase.

The whole thing is so silly. I can respect that there are adults who have had to deal with autism and have found a way to function with it and around it. I can also empathize that being people who usually do not like change, they would have a hard time imagining recovery. I think alot of autistics who are against cure think of it as a movie type cure, where there is some kind of mysterious shot that is injected once and suddenly the person's whole world radically changes. It is incorrect understanding.

What I can not stomach is people who grew up and lived a relatively normal life suddenly getting a dx in midlife and insisting they need to be on social services. Nothing, except the diagnosis has changed for them and now they suddenly can not hold down a job in the same way as before. It all makes no sense and smacks of disability fraud to me. Which explains why they are so against cure.

By the way, I think Autism Diva has a video clip of herself doing a happy dance on her most current blog entry. She is dancing for the joy of parenting autistic kids in hopes that there won't be some kind of mother's day masacre of autistic children or something to that effect. I didn't realize there was one last year. Hmmmm?

Fore Sam said...

Googly, I didn't know the Diva was such a good dancer.

endersdragon said...

So I am just wondering, would you label people like Temple Grandin as being diabled?

watson said...

Googly, I posted Donna Williams' response to Aspies for Freedom on the other thread. Have you read it?

http://www.autismtoday.com/articles/Aspies-for-Freedom.asp?name=Donna%20Williams

Dean said...

Oh yes, its all a big conspiracy involving anyone who does not parrot your uninformed, assumptive, and ignorant point of view. I would tell you that you are the worst enemy of the curebie movement, but since they do not seem to understand what the people you claim to be crusading for really see when they look at you, one has to ask what is the point.

Googlybear, being told you mean white when you say black, which should be written into the law as a form of child abuse as far as I am concerned now, is disabling. Being able to write 450,000 words in sequence for self-amusement is not. Get the picture? You do realise that making people out to be diseased when they aren't (which is what they tried to do to slaves and Jews, incidentally) is a form of dehumanisation, which is a step in genocide, don't you? Oh wait, don't bother answering, you do not know anything.

Dean said...

"Neurodiversity attacks this", "Neurodiversity attacks that", blah blah blah. You are a true discredit to quacks, John.

None of us here are attacking anyone, only sharing and sharing alike. Why are you so scared of people who have survived inhuman levels of abuse asking for equal and fair treatment in society? Is it because someone might try to use that to help your son instead of trying to erase everything he is?

Joeker said...

Anon: Get your facts straight on diseases. Find out actual definitions. This is the internet, use it.

Watson: Does she ever say "Vaccines are safe" unless provoked by someone poking in to say "Mercury in vaccines is the cause!" Does she? I'd love to find out.

Googly: They have to find it, for one thing. And be of 18 or older. They weren't scouring anywhere,it was open invitation, and this from people who dislike social interaction, putting up their photos.
"If you are 18 years of age or older and on the Autism Spectrum, we invite you to join us

Photos will be cropped for a "head and shoulders" picture for the main Picture page and your original photo will be linked to that cropped photo with your biographical information."
~taken from the site


Fore Sam and others: By the way, just love all the personal comments. Can we please stick to insulting what they say, rather than banter about lewd things(wouldn't speculate on what she was sucking), and judging people by their pictures(looks dangerous, looks drunk, looks low-functioning)?

Seriously, is this in defense of the Geiers, or just an excuse to insult a host of other people?

Fore Sam said...

Dean, Nice to hear from you again. I was disappointed that you knocked me on your blog but wouldn't let me post replies. Some would call that unfair.
Sorry, my son can't wait for Neurodiverse knuckleheads to change all of society's behavior. He has a much better chance of enjoying his life if I can cure the mercury poisoning while he's young. While Kathleen and other wack jobs attack decent scientists, I'll be using their knowledge to help him.

Joeker said...

Dean. Chill. Seriously. I know you're probably angry, but you need to calm down, outbursts only serve to help him stereotype people.

It looks like you know him, though. Ah well, just remember, this is a public forum. I say that to both of you, and I think this may... no, I think this will get ugly.

Oh, and Googly: One moment. I guess I may as well contribute to it. I don't want any lectures, and how you may disapprove, but I feel that I should. I was DXed nice and early, age 8. I was already, at an earlier age, making my parents think, but ultimately they felt I was alright, what with all the dictionaries and encyclopedias I was pulling off the shelves. Why I'll do it... Well, after all, they want presentations of many, and I became 18 as of May 1st, so... I "May" as well? =P

Open: Am I allowed to purchase fireworks yet, though? 18 old enough? Anyone answer me that one? =)

Fore Sam said...

Joeker, The consensus here is that most of the people in the adult picture project are not autistic. Shams are fair game for whatever comments sane people feel like making.

watson said...

Here's someone with Personality Disorder Not Otherwise Specified who admits he's not really autistic, so what's he doing in the "Autistic Adult Picture Project"?

http://www.isn.net/~jypsy/AuSpin/nick1.htm

Joeker said...

As are morons who feel that someone with Autism couldn't possibly get degrees, or learn to live semi-normal lives. It seems you think of Autism only negatively. You don't see any good that stems from it. And you'll probably say "Nothing good does stem from it."
Sorry, wanted to put the words in your mouth for once, show you how they taste.

Shams are, are they? Very well.
Ahem.

The Geirer's study shows no conclusive evidence other than that Lupron induces behavioral changes in a subject with Autism. The study itself is in threat of bias due to the lack of a neutral ethics board, thus the study, until proven to be neutral, valid, and factual, and a more comprehensive study performed and concluded, the Geier's study is to be classified, under common knowledge as unaccepted scientific theoreum, with minimal research and data.

As far as the consensus goes, is there anyone else in here who is Autistic? I think not, mainly because you either offend them, make them shake their heads, or scare them off. Who's here, who else is Autistic, other than me!? You've got parents, strangers, and someone who's dropped by to say a friendly bit of hate. Not every Autistic is low-functioning, if you'd care to raise your head above the perceived doom lurking above your head, that apparently ate your child. Not every person with Autism will realize it, and not everyone with Autism will be recognized. Even now, people are slipping through cracks.

Oh, by the way? It says: "If you are 18 years of age or older and on the Autism Spectrum"

on the Autism Spectrum

It almost makes me pity your single-minded, fanatical view of Autism, excepting the fact that you're a libelous, bitter, hate-filled false-messiah of death for Autism. Autistics work in ways you can't comprehend, or even recognize, and so you think of it as the unknown, and you cannot explore it, so you try to seal it, to destroy it, to eliminate it.

First, you say: "Ah yes, I think I see some low-functioners!" Then you realize you don't. Then they become "high-functioners," then just "normal" people. If anyone is a fraud, it's you. Based on personal taste, and your opinion, from peering at some pictures, is that these people are frauds, that they're fakes, hell, I bet you can even tell me why.

Pardon me while I proceed to add myself to their picture project.

watson said...

Joeker said...
Watson: Does she ever say "Vaccines are safe" unless provoked by someone poking in to say "Mercury in vaccines is the cause!" .

Seidel doesn't even have to say, "Vaccines are safe".

Under "Science Sites and Weblogs" on her blog there's a link to "Vaccine: The Book".

Here's the book she's promoting:

VACCINE: THE CONTROVERSIAL STORY OF MEDICINE'S GREATEST LIFESAVER

by Arthur Allen.

On the right hand side of that page you will see:

SHOULD YOU VACCINATE YOUR KIDS?

YES. DO WHAT YOUR PEDIATRICIAN SAYS. VACCINES DON'T CAUSE AUTISM.

Joeker, When it comes to vaccinating your own children, will you and your wife unquestioningly do whatever your pediatrician says, or will you do some research so that you will be able to make an informed decision?

It will be your baby so, whatever you decide, you will have to live with consequences - not Kathleen Seidel the librarian, not Arthur Allen the journalist, and certainly not your pediatrician.

Googlybear said...

Dean,

What are you babbling about?

You do realise that making people out to be diseased when they aren't (which is what they tried to do to slaves and Jews, incidentally) is a form of dehumanisation, which is a step in genocide, don't you?

Is autism a disability or not? I already answer it is. Obviously it must be or a good portion of people who have autism live off of disability. Maybe not you specifically, but if my child keeps at her current level of ability in relation to her peers she will be. I don't want that.

I also do not agree with people who lived a life for 50 years raising a family and working a career, suddenly deciding they have autism and living off social security. That is called fraud. I would think that people who are for autism/asbergers rights would be concerned aobut the fakers.

Googlybear said...

Joeker,

8 is still pretty young and I am sure your parents noticed when you were really young. Asbergers is harder to diagnose than autism because of the high level of communication skills.

I don't think I made any comments about someone looking drunk or dangerous. Asking if there are low functioning people on the site was only out of curiosity. I was hoping to see a variety of people with autism at a variety of levels so I could get a feel for what autistic adults have to say at all levels of functioning.

I got pretty disgusted when I read about a man who obviously has a marriage, a career and adopted children. He could obviously function well enough to have a pretty "normal" life. Suddenly he finds out he is autistic at age 50 give or take and goes on disability because his job won't accomodate his autism. It sounds like disability fraud to me. He is obviously capable of working and now he is not. I suspect someone like that probably had a mental breakdown or is entering into alzheimers. But asbergers sounds more acceptable because it is associated with high intelligence and often high level skills, so I believe that it is becoming the go to diagnosis.

This kind of behavior is also obscuring the issue. It makes people who do not have knowledge of autism, think that autistic people are just a bit different but they could function if they really want to. My daughter is moderate functioning but she speaks and is really good with computers. I have seriously had people tell me she is faking, or that she does things because she is spoiled, or she is just trying to get attention. I have had strangers come up to me in a store and tell me to put my kid on a leash or make loud comments about how my kid needs a good spanking. When I tell people my kid has autism, I get the Einstein comments or the Rainman comments. They don't seem to understand that speech and computer skills do not translate to real world skills like brushing teeth or impulse control. I don't think neurodiversity is giving a fair view of what life on all ends of the spectrum looks like.

Googlybear said...

Watson,

That was an excellent article, and summed up in many ways how I feel. I think that the more disabling conditions on the autism end of the spectrum, especially for autistic people who are not high functioning are ignored by those with aspergers in many respects. Aspergers and Autism are on the same spectrum, but they are not the same condition, anymore than Touretts and Aspergers are the same condition. My daughter is smart and she loves to learn, but most of the time she is unable to learn because the ADHD, dyslexia and auditory processing issues make it near impossible. She loves to go shopping, but many times the lights, the noises, the amount of people and the sensory overload of so many things to look at overwhelms her and she melts down in an aisle. Why should she be denied treatment to help her with these things merely because functioning people are against a cure for themselves.

Dean would probably have me locked up for child abuse for treating my daughter's disabling issues. I guess he would prefer she is ripped away from her parents who love her, and siblings that are the only children she really cares to interact wtih, taken away from her familiar home and familiar routine, and thrown into a state funded group home for special needs foster kids where she will be warehoused.

I find it ironic that neurodiversity worries about a cure wiping out autism, but then they will claim that there is no cure and nothing the curbies do really helps.

Googlybear said...

They have to find it, for one thing. And be of 18 or older. They weren't scouring anywhere,it was open invitation, and this from people who dislike social interaction, putting up their photos.

Correct, and why do you think it is that lower functioning autistics haven't found the site and been able to post their picture and an autobiography? By the nature of their disability, they can not communicate and access the world in the same way AS and HFA's can. Their needs are not being considered in the anti-cure politics.

Anonymous said...

Holy crap.

Let's talk a bit about LF/HF.
What does it mean? Is there a clear definition?

John Best appears to be HF in insults, and LF in common decency.
He can place bets, but can't make a friend.
So which would you call him????
HF or LF?

Parent of a CHILD with Autism.
HF kindness, LF tying shoes

Every PERSON with Autism can do what they can do. No more, and only less without support. Give them a chance dammit. Autism is not a death sentence.
LOVE your children. Start there.

Joeker said...

Googly, here's a little something I found. There's quite a strong argument against that common stereotype.

http://www.gettingthetruthout.org/index.html

Follow the link, and read the pages. Follow the link, and understand that there is someone out there, classified as Autistic, low-functioning. Know that she has not a voice, but a language. She doesn't speak, but she writes.
Where exactly do you think she is in Autism? She hasn't found the site, because she likely doesn't know it exists. It's fairly new, no? Or, barring that, fairly unknown? After all, it's only just been found, and linked to on here.

She is her own advocate. She cannot speak, and so she types for herself. Who better to know Autism, than one with it?

Fore Sam said...

Joeker, The actress in getting the truth out is Amanda baggs. You can learn more about her in previous posts. You won't find Droopy's Youtube videos anymore because a neurodiverse lawyer scared her into removing them.

Googlybear said...

Joeker,

That is Amanda Baggs, I'm aware of her and have even read her blog. Here's her picture on the Autism photo project: http://www.isn.net/~jypsy/AuSpin/amanda1.htm Sitting outside her apartment, where she lives independantly. There is some question of whether she is really autistic or not. You can read her blog at: http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/

I hear what they are saying and I don't disagree with everything. I do think there needs to be more dignity for people of all levels of function. They are making my case for me though. From the site:

I hit them because I was trapped and every time they got near me it was to torture me or control my life

Precisely. I've worked with non-verbal, low functioning adults and adults with alzheimers. I have been hit quite often for doing the things that need to be done- bathing, dressing, toothbrushing, toileting/changing diapers. I really did feel the frustration from people who could not care for themselves and were being cared for by others. But I had to do my job, leaving them without proper hygeine or dirty diapers is neglect and abuse. Do you hear the frustration though in her words, they were controlling her, torturing her, with their routines that needed to be done. That is not the kind of life I want for my child.

That is the problem with neurodiversity. They just pointed out the whole problem, including the frustrations that people caught in these situations feel. Then their solution is to do nothing, and not just nothing, but to deride parents from trying to help their kids so they have a voice and independance. So they don't have to be controlled and tortured.

I read once, I believe on her blog, where she talks about being in pain and not knowing how to communicate the pain, even worse, she says she didn't even realize she needed to communicate it. Apparently it was the worst kind of pain imaginable and she didn't know to communicate the pain to anyone so they could help her. When I read stuff like that, it doesn't make me want to celebrate, it makes me frightened. Fortunately, my daughter does have a large vocabulary which she doesn't always use to effectively communicate. Unfortunately, she often doesn't always communicate physical problems. There are lots of disabled adults who are preyed upon. A couple years ago, there was a story of a 16 year old girl in a nursing home who was repeatedly raped by one of the staff members and eventually ended up being pregnant by him. She isn't the only case. There were two cases in Florida of young disabled girls being raped and impregnanted in nursing homes. If someone can not communicate, they won't communicate that they are being abused or be able to point out their attacker. Sure, these are extreme stories, but these things do happen. Staff to resident abuse and neglect occur even in the best places. Resident to resident bullying and abuse also happens. Sometimes support staff spend years, decades working on the IPP goal of getting a non-verbal adult to use a communication board with little to no success.

Amanda also admits on her site that she can not understand if people are friend or out to do her harm. She says she has often let the wrong people into her home because she couldn't discern if they were friendly or not. She admits she lacks judgment and is impaired in this area. She lives alone. Do you think this is a safe situation for a person? What about a person who is functioning at a 2 or 3 year old level? Would you trust a 2 or 3 year old to make good decisions about their lives in their own residence? I don't believe Amanda is as low functioning as she claims. I used to work with people who you could not put in their own residence to care for themselves. It is not because staff were mean or underestimating, it is because they had no life skills. Even Amanda admits on the website you gave me that she goes to the store and buys her own diapers.

Alot of group home organizations also have a no restraints, hands off, positive reinforcement policy. This is always a nice policy when you have one resident beating another resident with a metal chair and staff members fleeing for their lives, but I digress. What positive reinforcement can one interject into that situation? Don't get me wrong, I've worked with some really really great people, and I don't just mean the ones who did not have violent behaviors. But there is alot of unrealism in the neurodiversity mindset. There is also some in the curbie end also. There is a good balance middle though. That is the place where we both love and accept the person, but also use all the tools we have available: assistive devices, biomed, traditonal med, therapies..etc, to help the person get to the best place they can be at. It doesn't have to be one way or the other.

james said...

Watson, thanks for the Donna Williams/Aspiesforfreedom link.

I think she couldn't have expressed her pro-cure view more explicitly and diplomatically without having an aspie revolution on her hands.
I felt every word she said about the serious disabling aspects of autism hit a note with me and my experience of my own autistic child.
She gave a thorough and comprehesive explanation of every complex and serious problem faced by children with autism. She drew comparisons to Aspergers issues/difficulties and took great pains in pointing out the difference between their condition as "aspies" and the greater physical, physiological, psychological, emotional and neurological complexities suffered by autisic children and adults, each time stressing that it would be inhumane not to treat or cure anyone with these debilitating conditions when they are a part of a persons autism.
Compare what Donna williams says to Amanda Baggs pathetic attempts at imitating autism with her 'hey look at me! I'm interacting with water' and 'hey look at me, I baked a cake and I can play the recorder' CRAP.


Joeker, you said to Googly,

"here's a little something I found. There's quite a strong argument against that common stereotype."

http://www.gettingthetruthout.org/index.html

"She is her own advocate. She cannot speak, and so she types for herself. Who better to know Autism, than one with it?"

You also said to me,

"James: People were insulting this Dr. Rimland, on the day he died? I'm shocked and disturbed. In my opinion, insulting the dead because of a simple differing viewpoint is one of the most vile and cowardly things to do. I sincerely regret his passing, though I don't know who he is. I find it shameful that these people on blogworld found it acceptable to do such things."

Here is a link to those you call "shameful", "vile" and "cowardly".

http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=243

Ballasexistenz, AKA Amanda Baggs, the woman from "getting the truth out" the woman you say "is her own advocate"

"I will always remember Bernie Rimland as the guy who used his fame for publicly debunking the refrigerator mother theory, as a platform to say a lot of things that were destructive to autistic people. I will remember him as a promoter of mass institutionalization of those he regarded as severely disabled. I will not remember him as any kind of autism saint.

This is, incidentally, exactly what I thought of him yesterday, when he was alive."

She's her own advocate alright.
If you want a good autism advocate look to Donna Williams. Read the link from watson and read her website.
You shouldn't be so superficial in your judgement of poeple when you have only just scratched the surface, and you definately shouldn't be telling parents what is best for their autistic children when you never have or will be anything like these children.
If you don't learn to walk before you can run, you'll end up hurting yourself. I expect you're feeling a bit bruised already.

Googlybear said...

I have a question about Amanda Baggs. On the Getting The Word Out site, the claim is that she is a low functioning autistic person who had been through all the biomed stuff like chelation and gf/cf diet. Is this a flat out lie? If so, then how can they say they are for the truth, when they have to make up a fictional character with a fictional outcome to biomed? This is distortion of fact, something they accuse DAN doctors of doing.

james said...

"Is that a flat out lie"

Everything about Amanda Baggs is a flat out lie.

Joeker said...

James: Shameful, cowardly, vile, yes. I said those words. I also recall I said that the site I linked to was an example of self-advocation. Both these things are true, yes.

I was judging her based on Fore's opinion, therefore, not in agreeance with her stances, but in disagreeance with Fore, while avoiding pledging myself to either cause, maintaining neutrality. You should try it sometime, it's a blast!

You make your own judgements about me, James, your own decisions on who I am. I lived through Autism, though granted communication, and am more capable than some. I feel I am more capable of speaking about Autism, being HF, than a parent does, not knowing and emphasizing with knowledge of what being Autistic is like.
I learnt to wiggle, then to crawl, then to walk. Once I have my dogwood diploma, I shall jog. Once I have my Bachelor's degree, I shall begin to run. I'm pretty curious as to why you think I'm running? I've said it before, and I'll say it again: "I'm not hiding, and I refuse to back down and hide." This includes running away.

Oh, and my bruises came from my peers in school. Shall I send you some pictures, if we still have them, of the bruises and cuts? Or would a simple tan and photograph work for the scars?

Googly: Gee, made up characters? This will come off as mean-spirirted, but every picture used on the "Getting the word out" Site is done by actors and models. Well staged, and turned black and white to pervade a feeling of drab uselessness.

Opemn: Made up characters? I believe the most well-known evidence of false Autism comes from this person:

The only autistic person on the conference-speaking circuit exposed as definitely misrepresenting herself as another kind of autistic person, is a 40-something speaking woman named Marty Murphy who posed as a 25-year-old non-speaking autistic man. She did so in a piece of writing about how horrible autism was. Many people in the autism community still defend her actions and refuse to question why she was posing as someone she was not, because her viewpoints about autism are popular.
You can find it here: http://www.asohalton.org/My%20Name%20is%20Autism.pdf

I hardly think that, unless proven otherwise, anyone should make assumptions based on whether or not someone is Autistic, but look for proof. Let her be evaluated, by a neutral psychologist. If she is indeed Autistic, then there's not much of a problem, now is there? If she's not, then she shouldn't be talking on it. However, I'd like to see evidence before jumping to conclusions, and I'd like it if others used evidence in discourse with me, so as that I can be assured they're not playing with stereotypes. After all, what happened to that theory on me about supporting Seidel?

James: Naughty, naughty. Never speak in absolutes, you'll find them inaccurate. I think it'd be best for everyone if we all stopped making idiotic assumptions based on personal opinions of other individuals, whom are un-involved in this forum in which they are being held up as other's beliefs.
Whatever happened to intelligent discourse?

Anonymous said...

James you are cruising for a legal bruising if you keep that sort of slander up about Amanda Baggs!

Googlybear said...

Googly: Gee, made up characters? This will come off as mean-spirirted, but every picture used on the "Getting the word out" Site is done by actors and models. Well staged, and turned black and white to pervade a feeling of drab uselessness.

I'm not being mean, I'm pointing out the fact. This is not Amanda Baggs history or anyone's history that I know of. They made up a history for a fictional low functioning autistic person and had Amanda pose for the pictures. they claim this person went through all the biomed interventions and they didn't help. What person? Amanda Baggs- nope. Some other person whose name they are not mentioning? Clearly, what they are trying to do is discredit biomed and other Autism organizations they don't agree with. No different than someone who makes a movie and casts actors to play the fictional characters. they don't mention this though, so anyone who is not aware of who Amanda Baggs is, is going to think this is a real story of her real life.

What if DAN! hired an NT person and photographed them for a fictional story of someone who used to be part of neurodiversity but is now cured by biomed. Wouldn't that be disingenuous?

james said...

Joeker,
"I feel I am more capable of speaking about Autism, being HF, than a parent does, not knowing and emphasizing with knowledge of what being Autistic is like."

The precocious, just turned 18 year old "little Mr can't be wrong" who thinks he's William Shakespear, makes sweeping statements about how his autism qualifies him as more capable of speaking about autism.
Bullshit Joker, I don't believe you are autistic. Tell us your diagnosis before you spout anymore of your condescending drivel.

"James: Naughty, naughty. Never speak in absolutes, you'll find them inaccurate. I think it'd be best for everyone if we all stopped making idiotic assumptions based on personal opinions of other individuals, whom are un-involved in this forum in which they are being held up as other's beliefs."

Speak for yourself Joeker. Not for me or anyone else on this "forum".
Why don't you try practicing what you preach?

Being such an excellent writer you should be familiar with Geoffrey Chaucer and the origins of the proverb, "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".
I think you would do well to heed this advice.

So far all we have heard from you concerning your 'autism' is how you were bullied at school.
As the HF autistic you say you are, and just for our education, would you mind giving us the benefit of your experience of what it's like to be HFA. I would like to learn just how this affects your daily life, and to hear about autism from the persective of someone more capable of speaking about it than us non autistic parents.

Anonymous said...

One of these days Amanda Baggs will get bored with posing as a low functioning autistic and will find chelation, get cured and start an advocay group touting the benefits of treating autism as an illness.

She can't keep up the charade for ever. She is a person, judging from her history on line, who goes from one trendy disease, one group to another, looking for a soap box to jump on, looking for a group to be part of, or preferably, lead.

Getting tThe Turth Out would be a great site if it was real, if it was honest.

The best advocates for autism are the people who live with it every day, and I don't mean the autistics themselves who are not able to be objective, or in many cases, even speak for themselves, I mean the family members who take care of the children and adults with autism/asperger's.

Googlybear said...

Anon,

I so completely agree!! My daughter isn't low functioning, I call her moderate because she has speech and can learn achademically, but has virtually no life skills.

Nobody knows my daughter like my husband and I. Nobody. Adults with autism are just people in the world like any other people. They don't raise my kid, they don't know what she can do, they don't have a lifelong obligation to her.

My opinion after viewing neurodiversity blogs is that they really do not care about the needs of low to moderately functioning autistic people. They are a support group for high functioning autistics, Aspergers, nutso parents and normally functioning hypochondriacs. They are so phobic that somebody might find something that recovers, alleviates or cures the symptoms and comorbidities of autism, for whatever their reasons, they can't see past the noses on their faces. Getting the Truth Out, got the truth out for me. It reminded me exactly why people need recovery. It is just pc mumbo jumbo to talk about dignity and freedom of low functioning people, and then not do anything to give them the ability to have dignity and freedom. Most low functioning individuals I worked with would sit in a corner in their diapers and starve to death, or eat whatever they could find including toothpaste and plants, or wander into the street and get run over if they did not have staff doing all the things for them that Amanda claims were "control". Of course they are controlled, they are controlled in the same way that babies and small children are controlled, for their own health and safety. Amanda is not low functioning. She is a faker and a liar. Anyone who has worked with low functioning adults and has taken certification classes on developmental disabilities, knows this. She is mocking the very people she claims to be advocating for.

Well Baggs has already done schizophrenia, now autism. I'm sure next she will find out she has trisomy 21 and will start advocating for Down's Syndrome. You are right though, nobody can fake it forever. Maybe we should send her some biomed books for her to rub her face in. She might learn something in the process.

Googlybear said...

Speaking of high and low functioning, there is sbome impertinent video by Christschool on low and high functioning. Apparently, there is not difference between high and low functioning in his book, and he claims sometimes he is low functioning. Remember, this is a man who obviously has a home, a wife, a career and is a father to his son. These are things that no low functioning adult I know can hope to acheive. The more I read, the more I can not believe the audacity of these people and their campaign to distort what the lower end of the spectrum is. Their goal obviously is too fool parents into thinking their lower functioning autistic kids are all going to magically grow up into high functioning, asbergers, shadowed or even spontantous recovery adults. They know the low functioning do not have a voice, so they can do as they please and run rough shod over any hope there could be for those people, out of their own selfish self interests. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82hWuQalYkw

I gotta stop reading ND blogs and such, it is just pissing me off.

Fore Sam said...

Googly, You are right. The Neuroinsane don't care about autistics at all. Their mission is to prevent the truth about autism from being learned. Shouldn't Social Security cut them off if they consider autism something to celebrate?

Googlybear said...

Fore Sam, you know what I think about people who are able to work claiming a disability and going on ssi. I think they are a drain on the system. People like Christcool go around talking about how they are really low functioning in some areas. They do that kind of talking to keep the possibility open of using their disability to get on ssi. He isn't "low functioning", and if he has an area of weakness, well who gives a shit, everyone has an area of weakness and things they are not cabable of doing or good at. If Christcool claims he is low functioning one more time, I think someone should round his ass up, stick him in diapers and drag him off to a group home where they will write up an IPP for toothbrushing and playing with tactile sensory toys; then they can bus him to a job where he will get paid 5 cents for every bag of nuts and bolts he fills.

By the way, did you watch the video. I skipped through most of his babbling hot air to the part where he puts his son on display like a zoo animal doing tricks. He actually tells his son to stim for the camera and make babbling. What kind of stupid crap is that? Then he has the audacity to say that his NT friend is impaired by her NT and doesn't know how to relate to her autistic kid like he does. I guess relating means making a mockery of his son's condition and encouraging odd behaviors. Maybe his wife will get smart and chelate the kid secretly.

Anonymous said...

I read that Mom26children's "best buddy" Ty Pennington, from Extreme Makeover Home Edition, was arrested for DUI over the weekend in California. Wasn't she telling us what great people they all were and how horrible all of us commenters were during those posts right after she got her new home? Shows how good her judgement is!

Anonymous said...

fore sam and posse:

I truly think you are all heartless, hateful people. I unfortunately came across your hate blog, and like driving by a car wreck, I looked.

It would be one thing if your passion for your son inspired you to do what you believed in (ie: chelation) but your anger and hatred for those who have other opinions than your own is beyond understanding. No one person knows for sure what causes Autism, or if there is a 'cure'. Yes that includes you.

What the parents of autistic children do know for sure is that they love their children... unconditionally. If that means that they do what 'they' believe is best for them, then your abusive comments are just weak bullying.

It's too bad your energy wasn't positive energy - if so, it might be worth something.

Also, your little groupies are laughable - how pathetic that they hang on your every ignorant word.

Cheers and see ya'

Noelle From Oregon

P.S. And since I know your M.O., I am posting anon. because I do not have a blog or website

Anonymous said...

I bet if social security cut Amanda Baggs off she would soon find an income, or a cure, or something. If aspies are so intelligent, why do they need our tax dollars. They should all be dot com millionaires.

Joeker said...

Googly: It makes me wonder though, about all these cure stories I've been hearing, all these kids suddenly better, and how I never see them, hear them, or find something real about them that makes them a tangible person. No names, no ages, no countries... Just words.

If you examine the facts, the sites were made in a certain order. First, the AN site, then the... Baggs site? Whatever. Anyways, the site I linked to, with her apparently fradulent story, came after the CAN site. Therefore, the actors hired on to portray Autistics were frauds first. Therefore, this becomes a case of the rat calling the mouse a rodent, much as it was before, but with the positions correctly placed. Amanda's was in response to a thing very much like you mentioned.

James: For going to quoting me, you reveal a few flaws. I said that I felt I was more capable, not that I, without a doubt, the most expert person on Autism to be found. You turn MY statements into blanket comments, and absolutes. Also, you know not my thoughts, speak not upon them.

I entioned this elsewhere,and several times. DXed at age 8, Officially as Aspergers, because I was highly advanced with words, and of course, this strongly implied AS rather than Autism, and the professionals were split criteria-wise, and went with the one which seemed to fit closest in their regards, and in the fact that they presumed Autism meant lack of speech, and of speech digression, based on criteria they referenced.

You seem to think I'm defending opinions of others which I share not. I'm not against you because I'm with anyone, but because you're acting as a fool, and libeling me, in addition to labeling me. I used forum as in the form of open, public debate. Just because words have many meanings doesn't mean I'm an idiot. Look into the dictionary if you find yourself confused about words I'm using, and the way they're used.

Very well James. Let me see... How to begin?

I knew pretty quick I wasn't like the other kids. I didn't have the same interests, I was shy, I didn't like to be looked at, or look into other's eyes. By the time my peers were reading the alphabet, singing the alphabet song all the way through without mistakes, I was reading at the same level as a four-year older sibling. I had unusual sleeping habits, and stayed up sometimes, sitting on my bed cross-legged, entering a kind of trance. I read a lot, too, at night, using my closet light. Lessons were simple, and many of my teachers pleased at the skill and precision I had in completing assignments, and less than happy over my lackluster handwriting skills. Printing worked for me, and they accepted that after butting heads for a while. Other students noticed my quirks and oddities, but I've spent enough time on that. Fast forward, the bullying was bad, and I retreated into books, and within pages I found solace. I began seperating myself from my body, so to speak, disassociation from the physical pain. Advancing to Middle school, I was studying social cues. I watched my peers, read a lot on middle school from books, watched it on TV. Real experience was the best teacher, though. I began to actually make friends, based around mutual interests. I would have melt-downs, though, through late elementary school to early middle-school. My reactions would be mainly to noises, also to light, or touch. I absolutely hate bright sunlight, bare bulbs, and camera flashes. I hate being touched when I'm not wanting to be, and find crowded hallways to be very nerve-wracking. The sounds made by trains, at least outside, are frightening to the point of fear and extreme nervousness, and there are some sounds which really drive me nuts, like the sound of a watch by my head. If I listen to music, and drown it out, it's a lot easier to take, and the music I listen to is soothing. We've got new phones. I despise the ringtones. More so than I despise talking on the phones.

My school counsellors were incredible, and I feel very grateful to the both of them. They helped me a great deal, and I'm very thankful.

I found it easier to write notes and letters than talk to people, and easier still to communicate on the internet. I prefer talking in person than by phone because I've taught myself to recognize certain physical cues, and those aren't helpful on the phone.

I'm very timid in person, yet more so if the person is gregarious, or bold. I'm nervous if they're not exactly close aquaintances, or often see me, and more so if they offer compliments.

I love the feel of earning respect, trust, admiration, things like this. It gives me a sense of very profound and clean satisfaction, and of acceptance. I performed at the Grad coffehouse a while ago, and entered, paid my admission, and took a far seat. I bought myself a hot chocolate, and a snack or two. I chatted a little with some people I knew as they went past, or dropped by to say hi. When the time came for me to go on stage, I felt scared and anxious, but that feeling came and went during my poems. I would read one, feeling anxious, then recieve some enthusiastic applause, which would make me confident, then feel anxious again with each poem I read. But at the end, with my last poem(I told them it was the last poem to read before reading), I recieved such applause! They applauded me more than they had the live bands, clapping and cheering, whistling, hooting, making all manner of positive noise, and stomping upon the floor. This was, in my heart, a validification of my life, of my existence, and of my future.

Any questions, feel free to ask.

Anon: The same could be said for Getting The Word Out.

Anon: But herein a question lies. Does the family not then too have bias, based upon what they percieve to be the effects of Autism? I say, let's have the families, and the Auties themselves as well, advocate the advantages and disadvantages. There are negatives, but it's not like there are no positives at all. I find honesty then, must come from both sides. Neurodiverse can talk about it's... whatever it talks about(positives), but they should also talk about uh... whatever they don't talk about(negatives).

Googly: Superb! Wisdom prevails within your statements. I myself don't read ND blogs(well, at least not often, or for long), and dislike disortions to achieve goals with the ends justifying the means.

Fore: Like an amputee having a glad thing about losing his leg, like if he was to have been drafted, yet opposed war, being a pacifist? Yes, you dislike that it happened, but at the same time, you feel you've avoided something worse. Perhaps their outlook could be along those lines?

Fore Sam said...

Noelle, Someone has to be wrong in this debate. The fact that those of us who use biomedical treatment on our kids are watching our kids get better proves that we're right. We love our kids. That's why we help them. The rest of you losers who won't help your kids are a bunch of child abusers.
We do know for certain that mercury causes autism. I hope you dumb bastards who can't learn this get your heads out of your asses soon for the sake of your kids.

Anonymous said...

well said, Noelle

Googlybear said...

Noelle, you can think we are hateful but it isn't true. It isn't about disagreeing with people with different opinions. It is about deception and smear campaigns against biomed parents. It is about people who can function trying to take away hope for people with less abilities then them. It is about people who lie about biomed parents, make them out to be neglegent or abusive and then lie to get on their closed forums so they can steal bits and pieces of their private conversations. So, if you don't like it, stop rubbernecking on our freeway.

Joeker There are stories out there. I know two kids in real life, who started treatment really young. One was high functioning and now is not considered to be on the spectrum anymore. The other was very low functioning and now is considered high functioning. There are alot of stories out there. Most parents share them among themselves on their various support forums. Many parents, once their kids are recovered, just go on with their lives, not wanting to stigmatize their children. Some will relocate to a new neighborhood and school so their child can get a fresh start without past stigma. I've already told you that not all recovery means complete recovery. Some is just improvment to a higher level of functioning and some are loss of comorbid health issues. You can read some of the stories in the book Recovering Autistic Children. By the way, what CAN video are you talking about? I haven't seen it.

Mom26 got a new house on Extreme Makeover? Why, because she has 5 autistic children? I thought her kids were a joy and an ease to raise. Why is it always the people who claim autism isn't a disability, who you find getting the most free services. LOL! I guess it is always a burden when it comes to getting a state check or getting a brand new house in national tv.

Joeker said...

Is Noelle a parent? Do you know this? You're attacking him, labeling him, assigning traits that aren't shown, and may be false. If you're intent on trying to insult every person to post who doesn't share your opinions, please, focus on what they say, and not who you think they are as people, their characters, beliefs, and parental status.

Anon, on Ty Pennington: So, one offence erases all the work he has done? Everyone makes mistakes. Some break the law. But does a crime erase their previous actions? Their charitability, their deeds, the good they have done?

You're just playing off of the fact he did something wrong. Her anger at you and the others she railed against was based in the causation, your offensive statements. Ty Pennington was, to her, an incredible person, who was so incredibly kind to her, and contrasted against the posters who mocked her and made comments that were to her, highly offensive. Of course she would speak of them in a high regard, and don't you think for a second that one crime is all the validity you need to lay base claims such as these, and insult all the people who have been kind to her, or been a positive force in her life. It's sad that you're so happy over the arrest for a criminal act, of a man who has done so much good for people.
It makes me nauseous to hear you gloat over it, like it was a good thing.

I do hope for your sake, Fore, that they don't decide not to simply because you're insulting them and calling them dumb bastards. Humility could go a long way towards actually changing opinions, and them longer you continue, the less people will feel support for you, as you insult whoever shares different views, and whom cannot be "converted" thus to your line of thinking simply because of the fact that you treat them so vilely.

Anonymous said...

Do you think Kathleen spends a minute of her day with her kid(s)? Where does she find the time to harrass doctors she doesn't like?

Fore Sam said...

It takes a long time to write all that crap that kathleen digs up. Would anyone do that if they weren't being paid?

Anonymous said...

Joeker said:

"My reactions would be mainly to noises, also to light, or touch. I absolutely hate bright sunlight, bare bulbs, and camera flashes. I hate being touched when I'm not wanting to be, and find crowded hallways to be very nerve-wracking. The sounds made by trains, at least outside, are frightening to the point of fear and extreme nervousness, and there are some sounds which really drive me nuts, like the sound of a watch by my head. If I listen to music, and drown it out, it's a lot easier to take, and the music I listen to is soothing. We've got new phones. I despise the ringtones. More so than I despise talking on the phones."


I have all these same sensory issues and I'm not autistic and nobody ever accomodated me for them. Some of this stuff is just sensory issues that lots of regular people have. I hate noise, I hate bright lights.

We are all different.

Lot's of us got bullied in school and out of school. We get over it. We move on.

Joker, You need to get your own blog, or write a book or something. It's not that you're boring, it's just, enough already!

I started reading here to learn more about autism and asperger's especially rom a treatment point of view.

I think John is awfully good to give you so much space.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, I'd like to think that some people with Asperger's must have some intelligence and would like to learn how to cure themselves. So, I let Joeker say whatever he wants in the hope that he'll learn to help himself. We have to have patience with people who have mercury induced brain damage if we expect to help them.

Joeker said...

Fore: It takes time for you to write this blog, I wonder who must pay you? Maybe it's because of her kids? Like they are to you? You're not the only parent to do what you feel you need to for your child's sake.

Anon: Do you scrunch your eyes tightly shut each time you're exposed, always wear a hat in case, carry clip-on sunglasses, too? Do you keep a supply of batteries on your immediate person so that you can replace batteries as fast as you can if and when they die on a bus? The ring tones blare, then ring in my head, the noise making my ead feel fit to split. Does your heart pound, with your mouth dry and your eyes wide, sweating, as you hear the train, and the pounding pistons, the wheels on the track, the clatter, and the mind-numbing whistle? Does your head hurt, and hurt ferociously every time something like this happens?

Anon. You have all these issues? Okay. But you're not Autistic. Don't lecture me on the effects these have to you.

I didn't get bullied. Oh no. I got tortured. Ever had groups of other kids pack up into groups just to hunt you down on the school grounds, to beat you, to throw you into dumpsters? Don't compare your easy-going "cooties and crying" to my harsh reality of childhood. I'm over it, I've moved on, but I'm not about to let my past be repeated in others, once I can influence and change the system that supports activities which are deemed criminal in mainstream society.

I do have my own blog, but prefer to answer personal things personally. Try learning from your own point of view, researching just what Autsim and Aspergers are neutrally. You won't find neutrality here.

I'm grateful John doesn't censor so much as other fools, other cure-pushers, and the Neuro-diverse. I find it to be a mark of hope that he's not fallen into the trap of censoring others, though he still isn't too light on the insults.

Fore: Of course, we must patronize them, treat them as less than others who support John. We must let them speak, albeit while patronizing them, until they suddenly realize some grand truth, and rush right out to do things to their minds. Of course, since it's brain damage, we must feel sorry for the poor, stupid autistic on your blog. So sad, yes?

Googly: On the subject of why he thinks so many here are hateful...
"Seidel is a muckraker not a researcher."
"That guy you mentioned looks like he's drunk. How about the one in the bottom right corner with the screwy hat? He looks dangerous."
"The consensus here is that most of the people in the adult picture project are not autistic. Shams are fair game for whatever comments sane people feel like making."
"Everything about Amanda Baggs is a flat out lie."
"You shouldn't be so superficial in your judgement of poeple when you have only just scratched the surface, and you definately shouldn't be telling parents what is best for their autistic children when you never have or will be anything like these children." Sorry to break the chain, but this one makes me giggle. I'm a fraud, then? Not really Autistic? Then what about:
"So, I let Joeker say whatever he wants in the hope that he'll learn to help himself. We have to have patience with people who have mercury induced brain damage if we expect to help them."
Many more comments are here, and if you look to the autisitic blogs Fore goes onto, he compares Autism to Homosexuality, and Bestiality. I could not make this stuff up. The way I found John was on google, and I found his more choice comments on Autism in someone's blog, which he was speaking in, and doing the mentioned comparisons. I couldn't make this up if I tried.

Whoever said that I had "never been like these kids", I think it was Anon. Alright, so you can call me a fake, then call me autistic, and of course, have others gloss over the hypocrisy?

Googly: I hate to argue with you, since you are the most reasonable person I've found here so far, Googly, but in the matter of being hateful, who do you think is the driving force of the blog? We're but on his freeway, and get the same as he gives.

I was speaking of the CAN site, not a video, sorry for confusion. The autistics portrayed weren't autistic. Just recoloured images of models.

Hm... Extreme Makeover, Home Edition? Weren't they to go about, and to help those whose homes were inadequate? How many rooms did she have for her children? What did the family do while they were away? And doesn't the house get built on the basis of other people's reccomendations? Others in the community find someone they think deserves a helping hand, or adequate housing ,and then send away an application for the family to the show? That's how they explain it on nearly every EM: HE show I've seen.

I'm getting sick of defending myself from people(not you, googly) who only pop by to pick a side and spit at someone.

Googlybear said...

Joeker,

I have some of the same, but not all, of the sensory issues that you have. But not to the extreme that you or my daughter have them. We are considering Auditory Integration Therapy for my daughter. It is supposed to be fairly effective for auditory sensory issues as well as hearing problems. It seems pretty non-invasive, as it is listening to cd's over headphones a half hour or an hour per day. Have you tried that therapy?

As for this site, I've been involved in alot of different forums and debates, so I am used to the gruff nature that can come when two sides disagree. That is just what the internet is like. You kind of have to grow a thick skin.

Anonymous said...

Hateful man said:
"Noelle, Someone has to be wrong in this debate. The fact that those of us who use biomedical treatment on our kids are watching our kids get better proves that we're right. We love our kids. That's why we help them. The rest of you losers who won't help your kids are a bunch of child abusers.
We do know for certain that mercury causes autism. I hope you dumb bastards who can't learn this get your heads out of your asses soon for the sake of your kids."


Wow.
I've been watching my son get better for years...but I don't do biomed.

I truly hope that most of the people who happen across this hateful site realize they're dealing with people who are in the process of mourning THEIR loss...stuck in anger and denial. Hopefully they realize that there are many things you can do to help your child.

Just because you don't do biomed (there's no NEED for us to, we've BEEN through the testing, there's NO mercury poisoning) doesn't mean you don't love your kids or that there aren't a range of other treatments/therapies to help them.

People with Autism are not ugly mistakes Foreskin...they're just people.

Your parents never fixed you, do you hate them???

Fore Sam said...

Anon, What testing did you do?
Children with autism are suffering and will suffer their entire lives if we can't improve their condition. Why don't you share exactly what you did to help your kid improve and start by telling us what he or she was like before any of that help? If you found another way to help them, great. You want to knock something that helps my son, go fuck yourself.

Anonymous said...

Fore Sam,

I read a lot of pontificating on how much biomed is helping your son. How about putting your money where your mouth is and proving it with before and after videos. You've had this ugly hateful site for a long time, and you write shitty, redneck like comments about people, yet you don't seem to be able to prove a damn thing. What's up?

Fox2012 said...

One thing I know for sure about HF autistics is, no one suffers more, no one is more self obsessed, self interested, self involved. They love to talk about themselves and their sad lives.


Joker.....I didn't get bullied. Oh no. I got tortured. Ever had groups of other kids pack up into groups just to hunt you down on the school grounds, to beat you, to throw you into dumpsters? Don't compare your easy-going "cooties and crying" to my harsh reality of childhood.



puleeze!

Joeker said...

Googly: I guess you could say I do and did self-therapies.

Noises in the classroom, like really loud classes, was pretty bad when I was younger. I compensated by listening to music, watching noisy movies, and playing my video games louder than normal.

I'm more adjusted now, a lot better than before, but sometimes, the noise will just build... But I'm not too worried, I'm doing pretty well now. Still can't really enjoy theatres, but it's okay when I go with friends, if I wear a hat that covers my ears. One of the reasons I wear them, muffles noise. I'd give it a try, I guess. You can also let her self-regulate some extra, if she feels up to it... Stuff like a TV or radio, maybe, with easy to use volume controls. I'm not sure what'd work best, or if she'd want to... Generally, I think the therapy will help.

I shouldn't be so upset, then, I guess... It's not like this is very drastic, being insulted online. It happens often enough... I'm just not used to Blogger, I guess...

Anon: What's your approach? I may know it, because of the way you wrote... What do you do?

Fore Sam said...

Anon, I'm more into writing than photography. I do have old videos of Sam but I don't have the photography equipment to put them on Youtube.

dr. thomas good md said...

THE ORIGINS OF AUTISM

Birth - The Autistic Child has a defective gene that is yet to be discovered.

First few months of life - The gene is dormant, and the baby grows normally.

A-Day - The child suffers a sensory overload, activating the dormant gene and starting the regression.

(The only way to avoid Autism is to avoid the sensory overload. Once the overload occurs, the damage is done and can not be reversed)

Causation - Sensory overload can come from almost anywhere. Food, domestic environment, an overwhelming attack on one of the five senses, and other factors. Yes even mercury poisoning.

Treatment - This largely depends on the disorder's level, and it's side effects and consequent sensory overloads. But above all, sensory overloads must be avoided at all costs. Bullying in the school yard can cause this, and can do additional damage to an Autistic child. Applied Behavioural Analysis is a useful tool but it does not work on low functioning Autistics. It also has limited success on other Autistics whose initial sensory overload was caused by other people's behaviour.

Discovering what caused the initial sensory overload can assist as well as any consequent overloads. The prevention of such overloads is then easier to achieve and the damage done by the first overload can be minimised.

However it must be made clear that once the dormant gene is activated, it can not be switched off. It is for this reason that Autism can not be cured. It is possible - by reducing overloads - to make a low functioning Autistic high functioning. Parents with low functioning Autistic children can hope for nothing better.

In this blog, much is made of mercury. It may be a cause of an overload, it may not. Chelation may help reduce the overload if indeed this is true. But again, the most that can be hoped for is a young adult with high functioning Autism. Better that than low functioning - but never neuro typical. This is impossible once the gene that carries the disorder is activated.

The only way to prevent Autism as I said is to prevent the first sensory overload. And as there are so many different things that could cause it - of which mercury in vaccines could be simply one - do we really believe we can eliminate Autism?

I think not.

I would appreciate it if this posting was permitted on this blog. Thank you.

maxima said...

Anonymous said...
"James you are cruising for a legal bruising if you keep that sort of slander up about Amanda Baggs!"

I see the Amanda Baggs supporters are always lurking on here. Anonymous, please explain how you can press charges against someone for voicing their opinions on that lady? She has whored herself all over the internet and getting judged is part of that world. If she doesn't like the fact that people say bad things about her she should go back into hiding.

BTW, Anonymous, you can bruise me :-)

Fore Sam said...

Dr Good, That's a good theory, Doc, but it's not true. Autism is caused by mercury impairing methylation. Since the kids can't convert B-12 into methyl B-12, they are incapable of paying attention to anything. That's why many improve using methyl B-12. That's also why the kids start paying attention to things after some mercury is removed.
The thing we can't know is how many brain cells were killed by mercury. That's why it's important to start chelation while the kids are young and still growing new brain cells. In older kids, HBOT is proving to be useful to grow more brain cells. This has also worked with stroke victims.
If your sensory overload theory was accurate, my son would have flipped out while I was blasting the Rolling Stones on my stereo. He always liked it.
You'll have to peddle your theory someplace else, Doc. I give you credit though. It's a good effort to misdirect the blame that falls on your profession for being too damn stupid to know how much mercury they were shooting into infants. I liken it to an auto mechanic putting sugar in your gas tank. Your associates should have known better. It would be nice if you guys told the truth so parents could all learn to help their kids.

Joeker said...

Fox2012: What do you convey with your "Puleeze?" Do you convey incredulity? Disbelief? Contempt? Does it make you feel unhappy that I didn't have a good childhood, and feel no shame in the way I speak of it? Are you uninterested in fact?

One thing I know for sure about Normal, normal people, no one is more involved with insulting, dergarding, and being a jerk than them. They love to insult people, and the struggles they've been through, with little to no knowledge of said things.

Grow up, Fox. I've been insulted by people far better at it than you. At least I'm not too angry at you yet. Give up now, before I have to devote more time to defending myself and insulting the little intelligence you have.

Fore: Okay. That makes sense. Besides, what purpose would there be to going out and blowing cash on something like that? To satisfy someone stranger's curiousness? Not too good a reason, eh? Well, excepting factors that I can't possibly be aware of. Well, you probably get the point. Ciao for now.

dr. thomas good md said...

If your sensory overload theory was accurate, my son would have flipped out while I was blasting the Rolling Stones on my stereo. He always liked it.

This information does not prove that I am wrong. It proves that loud noises does not cause sensory overload in your son. It's something else. As I stated, in your son's case it could well have been mercury that caused the overload that triggered the defective gene. But this does not mean that it is the cause of all others.

I do not appreciate the personal abuse against my colleagues. We are all making every effort to find a resolution to this issue. You are not assisting that effort.

Googlybear said...

Fore Sam,

Your son is the same age as my daughter, I believe. Have you tried HBOT with him yet? We are going to do it over the summer in a hard chamber, and I was wondering if you have had any success.

Fore Sam said...

Googly, Sam is 10. We're still getting gradual improvement with chelation so have not tried HBOT yet. I'll have to hit some good trifectas to afford it too.

Googlybear said...

Dr. Good,

I think you are on the right path with the defective gene and even considering that vaccines might be the overload. I believe that there is a defective or underactive gene that leaves some people suseptible to problems with their methylation pathways. Since they can not remove toxins at the same rate as other people, it is possible for toxins to build up quicker in their systems. Vaccines with mercury in them just speed up the process. I believe that older children, teen and adult onset schizophrenia and bipolar disorders are what happens when the toxins build up to critical mass in adulthood instead of infancy. I also think that Alzheimers is the result of the toxic overload hitting critical mass in old age, usually because the body is slowing down anyway combined with a lifetime of toxic buildup. I think it bears consideration that at least one heavy metal is already linked to Alzheimers, which is Aluminum.

Many Autistic children who go through chelation also get rid of toxic loads of aluminum and lead.

The sensory problems occur after the damage, not before. Gene weakness ---> toxic damage ----> methylation disfunction/overload
----> sensory disfuntion along with other autistic problems.

If you are truly an MD who is interested in the autism epidemic, then try reading books written by your colleagues who have been in the trenches for years. Look on the Autism Research Institute site, there are physicians called Defeat Autism Now physicians who have been recovering autistic children for years.

Googlybear said...

Yea, it is going to be a chunk of change for us also. We refinanced the house and put money aside for it. We are also starting IV chelation on Wednesday, so that is going to kill our credit card. If it gets to be too much, I will just go back to working night shift. My daughter is also 10.

Fore Sam said...

Dr Good, Your colleagues deserve a lot more abuse than I can give them. Luckily for them, they are all protected by "standard of care" which prevents us from suing them for injecting our infants with about 200 times as much mercury as is thought to be safe by the CDC. The true malpractice though, is that these idiots continue to inject babies and pregnant women with the flu shot containing thimerosal.
How about your colleagues in third world countries who are still giving infants the full dose of thimerosal? They're not making any effort to resolve this. If you had any guts, you'd be jumping down Julie Gerberdings throat with the full force of the AMA and AAP and demanding that they remove ALL thimerosal immediately. Sorry Doc, as long as babies still get poisoned by vaccines, it shows that you are making zero effort to end this insanity.

Fore Sam said...

Googly, Are you using EDTA in an IV? Have you tried DMSA and ALA?

Googlybear said...

We are going to do a challenge with EDTA and DMPS, see what happens. We haven't tried DMSA and ALA. We did alternative forms of chelation when she was younger with some success, but I think there is still a metals burden that didn't get removed. IV and suppositories seem to be the most effective at present, from what I am reading and getting from the different DAN doctors I have asked. If we get good pulls for awhile, I am probably going to switch to oral. I can't see doing IV's long term.

Fore Sam said...

Googly, Have you read what Andy Cutler has to say? According to him, ALA is the only thing that's essential for chelation since nothing else will get mercury out of the brain.

Googlybear said...

I read that you shouldn't start with ALA right away. That you should reduce the body burden first. I figure we will do ALA after a couple rounds of IV chelation. I'll read what Andy Cutler wrote.

Anonymous said...

Fox2012 here. My password would not work, not sure why.


Joker said,
"Give up now, before I have to devote more time to defending myself and insulting the little intelligence you have."

Devote all the time you want, you seem to have lots of it given the long, self indulgent posts you write. I've been insulted by better Aspies than you.

Now on to the adults on the forum:

I lived for 20 years with a HF Asperger's partner and have a child with mild Asperger's, very HF, not at all like John and Googly describe their kids. My heart goes out to you guys and I commend you for looking for solutions and neither celebrating your child's disability nor giving up on them. You are doing something constructive in helping them.

I have been posting for a while under anon but decided to put a name to my posts which is why I signed up. If the pass word will not work I will sign my nickname.

Fore Sam said...

Some people add the ALA in later. I started with DMSA and ALA together and stopped using the DMSA after about 40 rounds.
Not saying what you should or shouldn't use. I just think it's worth looking at his protocol and seeing what he has to say. I assume you know about the problems with the wrong kind of EDTA.

Googlybear said...

Yea, I know the difference between CaEDTA and the disodium kind. Unfortunately, neurodingbats keeps pretending like they don't understand that there is a difference and shouting how chelation kills kids and how dangerous biomed is. I guess they have never looked into how many mistakes are made with pharmaceuticals and how many people die in hospitals due to error in mainstream med.
--------------------

Fox, thanks for the support. My daughter is not as low functioning as John's son. She can talk and do alot of things. We have had quite a few differing diagnosis in the past from aspie with severe adhd & dyslexia to moderate functioning with mild mental retardation. She is definately somewhere in the middle of those. I just really have always had a heart for those on the lower functioning end of their disability. They tend to get warehoused and forgotten alot of the time, because they have zero means of advocating for themselves. John definately has quite a challenge and my heart goes out to him and his son. It is a good thing Sam has a dad with so much determination, because there are alot of children in his situation who are not so fortunate. Their parents are too busy listening to fakers like Amanda Baggs and celebrating neurological damage.

Joeker said...

Maxima: Well, there is a point to be made here. Many of the things said may be accurate(or not), but if Fore makes libelous(proper for slander that's in written form) statements, then he's to fault. Truth is a defense, but ignorance is not. If he makes statements proven to be false, then he's perfectly liable for what he's said. But it's not likely he'll be taken to task for the comments he makes... After all, who here supports Amanda Baggs?
That's what I thought.

Fore: You made this in defense of statements made about a theory, and this is what you do? Make statements of the same about an unrelated theory, attacking a man who works in the Medical Profession? What cruel irony...

Fore, later on in the comments: He's in the medical profession, and more active in trying to examine every facet of Autism, examining all possibilties to eliminate incorrect ones. That way, the heart of Autism can be exposed. He doesn't appreciate the comments made, insulting other doctors, whom have devoted their lives to making people better. Would you rather have thousands die each year from malaria and other virulent diseases and illnesses? Doctors are doctors. They have to make decisions which affect other peoples lives for years, or even whether they survive. Don't you think it's a bit tense? Don't you think they're always questioning if their actions are right? They're not dealing with faceless strangers, but real people, in real pain. Some gratitude would be in order for those who keep us healthy, even if you believe they're hurting people, they're also helping. Just relax, and don't take it so personally. There's research all the time, and things follow a certain pattern in Medicine. They have for a great many decades, now.

Fox2012: "One thing I know for sure about HF autistics is, no one suffers more, no one is more self obsessed, self interested, self involved. They love to talk about themselves and their sad lives."

Does your partner and child know the way you speak about HFAs? Or are they an exception? Are they different somehow? Do you feel they're like that? Just what would possess you, as a parent and a partner, to say that?
Seriously, you need to come to an understanding. I wrote about my life, and my childhood, most of my personal experiences, because I was asked to, whether it be out of distrust, arrogance, curiousity, or for proof that I'm HFA. Insult those who asked me to.

See you all later.
~Joeker

dr. thomas good md said...

Mr.Best, there is no proof that mercury has such a guarenteed result to warrant the action you state is needed. I believe you are over reacting to your own son's experience, which as I said is merely one sample. One sample does not make a case.

I have read a lot of the material you noted, and all of the material supporting your argument contains no solid medical back up. It needs to be investigated further, and pushing people around as you are doing will only create the opposite reaction to what you desire. It is human nature to resist aggression, and sometimes it creates aggression in return. That is why I said you are not assisting your cause.

If you wish the work of Mark Geier and his colleagues to be respected over that of those you despise, you should cease playing the emotional card. It is harming your cause, not helping it. Should you be correct, the procedure will be put in place. But you must be patient, and not attempt to push people around. They will push back and the whole process will be delayed.

I do not have enough power by myself to tell the AMA and AAP what to do. There is a major issue with thimerosal in that it's use as a preservative extends the life of vaccines. If it is removed it shortens the life of the vaccines and will place children in this country in danger. I personally would prefer another preservative be found that does not contain mercury, but until this is done I can not see the pharmaceutical companies complying with the massive increase in production and the loss of material that would result. And this would threaten children's lives also. It is a situation where - as the saying goes - "Heads you lose, tails you lose".

I do not wish to defend the companies, but it is a very volatile situation we are in - which needs patience. The solution will come to those who wait. Meanwhile, you seem to have your house in order and for that I say good for you. Stick with that, and let others do their jobs. If you end up being correct, the rewards will come. Don't force them.

Googlybear,

I have not researched Alzheimers so I do not know if this is correct. But excess toxins can cause a number of problems in theory. And again it can come from a number of different sources. I have heard about the aluminum theory, but I do not know enough about it and I do not deal with the elderly in my practice anyway as a general rule as the population where I am is quite young.

Fore Sam said...

To the defenders of doctors,
There is NO excuse for poisoning babies with mercury.

Anonymous said...

I sit here & just shake my head. Dr. Good you can't possibly be serious? I don't even know where to start. And that coin toss thing. Where the hell do we get the right to make a decision like that ?!?

Anonymous said...

If you found another way to help them, great.

Thank you, I have. He has Autism, not mercury poisoning. No cure, but significant improvements.

You want to knock something that helps my son, go fuck yourself.

My sentiments exactly.
Please do the same.

I honestly do hope that you can cure your son of Mercury Poisoning. It should never be injected into children. Period. It's criminal. Period.

I do still wish that you would not include yourselves in "those with Autism" though. You're misrepresenting yourself.

Joeker said...

Anon: Damned if you do, damned if you don't, and you think either choice is desirous?

Fore: And there is no excuse to let them catch illnesses which will cause serious harm, and even death. Autism is not as bad as dying from a preventable malady which tortures you for hours, even days, before finally killing you. Would you wish something like that on a baby?

Dr. Good here is being polite, reasonable, and to me, very accurate. The research will speak for itself.

Fore Sam said...

Joker, You're out to lunch. It's not about the shots, it's about the mercury. All it takes to make them safe is single dose vials.
This alleged doctor is a jackass defending malpractice.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, Autism and mercury poisoning are synonymous. You are harming your child by refusing to accept this fact. If you don't like hearing the truth, go read the neuroinsanity blogs with all the other irresponsible parents.

watson said...

Joeker said...
"My reactions would be mainly to noises, also to light, or touch. I absolutely hate bright sunlight, bare bulbs, and camera flashes."

Photophobia can be caused by lack of Vitamin A.

Googly said...
We are considering Auditory Integration Therapy for my daughter. It is supposed to be fairly effective for auditory sensory issues as well as hearing problems.

Googly, I think it's worth trying. Berard's AIT definitely reduced my son's sensitivity to sound, and helped with auditory processing. Before AIT, he was literally terrified by certain sounds such as hair and hand driers, blenders, fireworks etc., babies crying and anyone singing. If he couldn't run away, he would either attack the person he felt was responsible, or drop to the floor, curl up in the fetal position, cover his ears and scream. With the interference from background noise gone, he was better able to focus his attention on our voices. He responded when he was called and his speech and language improved. It definitely works for some of our children, and that's why I really don't understand why ND is so anti-treatment, and the experts are so anti-anything that has been proven to help.

watson said...

Joeker said...
Don't you think (doctors) they're always questioning if their actions are right?

Not when it comes to vaccines. They can't question vaccines or they'd lose their jobs. And if parents choose not to have their children vaccinated, some doctors turn them away, and they have to go elsewhere for treatment.

watson said...

dr. thomas good md said...
First few months of life - The gene is dormant, and the baby grows normally. A-Day - The child suffers a sensory overload, activating the dormant gene and starting the regression. (The only way to avoid Autism is to avoid the sensory overload. Once the overload occurs, the damage is done and can not be reversed)

So how would you explain cases of full-blown Kanner's Syndrome following herpes encephalitis in middle-aged adults?

maxima said...

Foresam, I just saw this incredible movie on TV tonight (it´s night time in my part of the world), it's about this woman that connects her son's autism with the shots he received. She finds this Doctor named Andrew Wakefield that believes her and is doing studies where he links autism with MMR vaccinations. Anyway, this guy does exist and he was shunned out of the medical profession in England and lost all his funding. Hmmm, it sounds like your theories aren't crazy after all Foresam....

Anyway, this story has a good ending. Today he is working at the Thoughtful house which is an autistic center for children in Texas. He is getting funding again and continues to do his research.
Here's a link that goes into detail about his research:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

Here is a link to the movie I saw, it's called "Hear the silence":
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0373893/combined

BTW, the lady's son starts regaining his speech after going on a special diet recommended by the doctor :-)

watson said...

Joeker said...
And there is no excuse to let them catch illnesses which will cause serious harm, and even death. Autism is not as bad as dying from a preventable malady which tortures you for hours, even days, before finally killing you. Would you wish something like that on a baby?

Which illnesses exactly?

Googlybear said...

Before AIT, he was literally terrified by certain sounds such as hair and hand driers, blenders, fireworks etc., babies crying and anyone singing

Watson, My daughter can not stand the sound of someone singing. She can listen to recorded music, but can not stand anyone singing solo. The only times she has ever gotten aggressive in school was over someone singing.

really don't understand why ND is so anti-treatment, and the experts are so anti-anything that has been proven to help.

Autism is the only disorder that I have seen where the people with the disorder actually are against improving their condition. Even if they don't believe it is curable, you would think they would still want to know how to maintain their health and minimize their more disabling issues. I think that autism is unique in this area because of some of the unique features of autism, one of which is fear of change.

Also, you are right about vitamin A. We added a couple drops of mycellized A drops to my daughters supplements and I have seen a massive decrease in her looking out of the corner of her eyes. She only did it when walking fast or running, she would literally run sideways because she was looking out the corner of her eyes. 10 days later and I haven't seen the behavior in a couple days.

Anonymous said...

Myaspie child is terrific, just like my regular kid, but the other aspies in the family, yes, I tell them honestly how they behave in the hopes that they will improve. It makes no difference and then they wonder why they have so many social problems, no friends, problems with work etc.

I've done all I can. They are whiners, plain and simple.

Fox

Anonymous said...

Anon, Autism and mercury poisoning are synonymous. You are harming your child by refusing to accept this fact.

They are not synonymous, however they ARE both neurological conditions. Two SEPARATE conditions.

If you know of a way other than Porphyrin, Stool and Hair analysis, please, enlighten me. Unless of course your suggestion is to feed MORE drugs into my child. Then don't bother, it isn't going to happen.

If you don't like hearing the truth, go read the neuroinsanity blogs with all the other irresponsible parents.

Don't presume to know all the answers to all the questions, or presume to know who is or isn't a responsible parent. Certainly don't presume to know what my own child with AUTISM goes through or is like or has overcome.

You've said yourself, hundreds of times, that your son has something different - something called MERCURY POISONING.

How long till he's cured of HIS condition?

Fore Sam said...

Googly, I think we know why some loudmouths who allegedly have autism are against a cure. They aren't really autistic or Asperger's or even a little weird. They're just drug company shills who got some very naive and stupid people to follow their lead about celebrating having brain damage. If these people were real their parents would be having them committed to asylums while they underwent cures.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, Autism was invented in 1931 and misnamed autism in 1943. It would have been called mercury poisoning back them if Kanner had figured it out. The proof of this is that neither you nor any other nitwit can find us some 76 year old autistics. Einstein, Babe Ruth and Confucius don't count.

Anonymous said...

Does 1887 sound early enough for you?

http://www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org/savant/doctordown.cfm

Down, best-known for having described Down syndrome, gave a lecture in 1887 to the London Medical Society, in which he described 10 patients as having remarkable gifts -- far too remarkable to consider them retarded -- but also "living in a world of their own." One boy "(referred) to himself in the third person," "lost speech," "self-contained and self-absorbed, caring not to be entertained other than (in) his own dream-land, and automatic and rhythmical movements."

"Those descriptions are so applicable to what we now call Autistic Disorder. ... Autism is not a new disorder," the summary concluded.

Quoted source:
http://www.upi.com/archive/view.php?archive=1&StoryID=20050203-030807-6482r

Fore Sam said...

Anon, Dig them up to test DNA and see if they had fragile X? It had never been seen before 1943. If it had been the same thing, Kanner would have known about it. Tell your bosses at Eli Lilly that this stupid argument won't fly.

Anonymous said...

You crack me up. You ask for "evidence". I give it to you. You don't bother to read it? That's your problem.

Serious denial.

By the way, you never answered my question:
If you know of a way other than Porphyrin, Stool and Hair analysis, please, enlighten me. Unless of course your suggestion is to feed MORE drugs into my child. Then don't bother, it isn't going to happen.

Anonymous said...

http://www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org/savant/doctordown.cfm

Just an FYI, since you conveniently cut off the link.

Joeker said...

I'm against the "cure." I'm all for taking care of the symptoms which cause problems, but other than getting Autisitics out of LF and up to HF, you have me shaking my head.

Hm... I found one, but he's only 74... too bad.

Ironic, that you should be so tactless when it comes to others children. You find it the utmost insult to be told that you're not taking care of child right(though that's not the case), yet you're more than happy to tell other parents:

"Anon, Autism and mercury poisoning are synonymous. You are harming your child by refusing to accept this fact. If you don't like hearing the truth, go read the neuroinsanity blogs with all the other irresponsible parents."

"Noelle, Someone has to be wrong in this debate. The fact that those of us who use biomedical treatment on our kids are watching our kids get better proves that we're right. We love our kids. That's why we help them. The rest of you losers who won't help your kids are a bunch of child abusers.
We do know for certain that mercury causes autism. I hope you dumb bastards who can't learn this get your heads out of your asses soon for the sake of your kids."

With reckless abandon, you flame those who you think to be bad parents, but if one should so much imply you're not, they're treated to a barrage of hatred and bile.

Now, onto another matter. I still haven't recieved an explanation, satisfactory or not, as to my earlier question on this:

It takes a long time to write all that crap that kathleen digs up. Would anyone do that if they weren't being paid?

So you, of course, writing on this blog, aren't being paid? Why would you do that unless being paid?

Your son. Perhaps Kathleen has someone special to her, too? Or are you the only parent who cares for their child? Or their partner? Their shy uncle, their zany cousin, their eccentric grandparent, their odd sibling living down the road?
To be fair, you both call each other's methods child abuse. You both share an intense dislike of each other, and often butt heads, or lock horns, or join a cause simply because one is against the other. And it was all about helping your kids to start, perhaps, but moved on to a personal feud, as well as a flame war, and a love of libeling each other.

A little funny, I guess, that you should both hate each other so, and yet you're both kind of similar. Even funnier if you realize that it's all about what's best for the kids.

I still tell you, it's smarter and more effective to be positive, be proud of the changes, and work in a positive way to effect change, rather than delay it by filling your path with people defending themselves.

You're like an emu calling a chicken flightless, by trying to force others to see your point of view, rather than let them come to it of their own accord.

You should meet fire with water. See how Seidel attacks you, or the Geiers, only to be burnt by her own flames. I want, yes, want more research into Autism. Mercury included. I'm not one to discard a theory just because the one presenting it is offending me. I say, let the research begin! Fill your boots! The more research, the sooner we either come to what Autism is, or have verification of your theory. Either way, it's a winning situation for the Autistic children, youth, and adults. Wouldn't you agree?

After all, if you truly hate Autism, the best solution is to ensure it's hunted down and killed, no?

Anonymous said...

And not sure what Fragile X has to do with it.
Fragile X was first identified in 1969. The gene that causes it, not until 1991. Does that mean it didn't exist before then? (in your mind)

Anonymous said...

More proof:
http://www.autism-resources.com/autismfaq-hist.html

dr. thomas good md said...

There is NO excuse for poisoning babies with mercury.

I agree. But there is no poisoning taking place, otherwise every child that is vaccinated would be suffering. And only if the mercury was the cause of the sensory overload - which at least appears to be the case with your son.

So how would you explain cases of full-blown Kanner's Syndrome following herpes encephalitis in middle-aged adults?

I have not heard of this, but I would assume the herpes caused a sensory overload that somehow got to the gene that causes Autism. That would be unusual in a middle aged adult, but not impossible. Do you have a link, Watson?

And to assist Joeker, I think Whooping Cough would be worse for a baby than Autism.

The proof of this is that neither you nor any other nitwit can find us some 76 year old autistics.

Mr. Best, please do not state absolutes without knowing the details. Most of the adults with Autism were placed in institutions. Before 1943, and even after that time they were horrific places. Knowledgeless doctors who threw drug after drug at something they didn't really understand. The drugs are what killed them and that is why you do not see any today that were born prior to 1931. I would be surprised if any low functioning Autistics lived beyond 30 back then.

It had never been seen before 1943. If it had been the same thing, Kanner would have known about it.

I believe he did, but he did not include it in his report because he was keen to counter the work of Bleuler, who named Autism in 1912 as a part of his work on schizophrenia. Kanner knew that if he'd mentioned Bleuler his work would have been swamped and forgotten. That almost occured anyway as until the introduction of the DSM-IV in 1994 there were a number of ill equipped doctors still diagnosing schizophrenia when it was in fact high functioning Autism. This was the fault of Bleuler, who undid the work done by Kraepolin in the late 1890's on youth dementia.

Science has progressed a long way, Mr. Best. Please do not send us back to the dark ages with your attitude. I think the majority of the world would want nothing to do with that.

watson said...

Anonymous said...
"Those descriptions are so applicable to what we now call Autistic Disorder. ... Autism is not a new disorder," the summary concluded.

Curious that the children who developed these behaviours did so after "the second dentition", and at 6 they would have been given the smallpox vaccine.

Anonymous said...

More reading from you.

Chocolate wasn't known by most of the world until Montezuma shared it - did it exist before the rest of the world discovered it?

http://www.autism-pdd.net/autism-history.html

http://www.whonamedit.com/doctor.cfm/1294.html

Just trying to help you John.

watson said...

Maxina said...
I just saw this incredible movie on TV tonight (it´s night time in my part of the world), it's about this woman that connects her son's autism with the shots he received.

Maxina, Was it a documentary called "Every Parent's Choice"? If so, did you happen to catch Dr Simon Murch's comment:

"I have been advised by colleagues that it is better to accept that a very few children can have adverse events than to continue to investigate that (the MMR) if it is going to have an impact on vaccine uptake internationally."

This is what he said just one year earlier, in 2001:

http://www.geocities.com/ARNFL/newsletters2.html
New Fears As Tests Link Triple Jabs To Children's Disease - Sunday Express March 18, 2001.

World renowned child specialist and the main author of the report, Simon Murch, said the study was an important advance. He said:

"People have seen autism as a mental, not a physical illness. We have shown for the first time in a properly controlled study a clear link between gut inflammation and brain damage."


Simon Much didn't lose his job, because he recanted. Dr Andrew Wakefield did.

Fore Sam said...

Alleged Doctor, No adults with autism were placed in institutions before 1949 because they did not exist. Schizophrenia is much different from autism and, even a horse's ass like you could never screw up that diagnosis.
I had whooping cough, "Doc". It was no big deal and I was over it in less than 2 weeks. Coughing for a little while doesn't compare to a lifetime of not being able to talk, play baseball, get laid or know what your own name is. Go poison some more babies, nitwit.

Anonymous said...

Very funny Fore Sam.
My nephew had whooping cough for a week before he died.

Still not going to answer my mercury testing question?

Anonymous said...

Schizophrenia confused with Autism:
Take your pick.

http://www.autism.org/interview/ljk.html

http://www.med.yale.edu/chldstdy/autism/autism.html

Schizophrenia and autism-differential diagnosis
Even now, experts have difficulties in making difference between these two disorders. Every doctor should know that schizophrenia shouldn't be diagnosed separately from Autism, unless delusions and hallucinations are prominent.
Of course, it is true that the negative symptoms of Schizophrenia and the symptoms of Autism mimic one another, which causes confusion in diagnosing.

Source:
http://www.steadyhealth.com/articles/Schizophrenia_and_Autism_a330_f138.html

Want more?

When did you get your doctorate John?

watson said...

dr. thomas good md said...
I have not heard of this, (Kanner's Syndrome following herpes encephalitis) but I would assume the herpes caused a sensory overload that somehow got to the gene that causes Autism. That would be unusual in a middle aged adult, but not impossible. Do you have a link, Watson?

Here's one... and please note it says "temporal lobe damage".

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1743418&dopt=Abstract
Dev Med Child Neurol. 1991 Oct;33(10):920-4.

Autistic syndrome with onset at age 31 years: herpes encephalitis as a possible model for childhood autism.
Gillberg IC.

Department of Pediatrics and Child Psychiatry, University of Goteborg, Sweden.

The author describes a previously healthy man who contracted herpes encephalitis at the age of 31 years, and over the following months developed all the symptoms considered diagnostic of autism.

This case report casts doubt on the notion of autism as an exclusively developmental disorder.

It is suggested that temporal lobe damage may cause autism in some cases.

PMID: 1743418 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

maxima said...

I almost give up on you Foresam. One of your hard core followers. I just gave you a link to a cure and you go on? Do you feed on the fact that these people argue?


Your son has a cure, a bunch of us support you; go on

Fore Sam said...

Maxima, I haven't had time to check any of the links that have been flying around here.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, Did you test for genetics? What kind of hair test are you talking about?

Fore Sam said...

Anon, "Bleuler is credited with the introduction of two concepts fundamental to the analysis of schizophrenia: autism, denoting the loss of contact with reality, frequently through indulgence in bizarre fantasy, and ambivalence, denoting the coexistence of mutually exclusive contradictions within the psyche." from Bleuler
If this is what Bleuler called autism, it has nothing to do with what autistic children are like. His "autism" is just another word for schizophrenia. Bleuler never saw an autistic child.

Anonymous said...

Foresam said, "Autism was invented in 1931 and misnamed autism in 1943. It would have been called mercury poisoning back them if Kanner had figured it out."

This is correct and not the only example of diseases being mislabled, renamed whatever, to cover up drug company scams.

After the polio vaccine was being used the drug companies claimed polio had been irradicated. Not so. Polio is still around and has been renamed with names like Myoencephalitis, various viruses, you name it. It was never eradicated, it is nothing but a drug company scam. There are dozens of other examples of renamed diseases just so you will all keep loading your kids up with vaccines, drugs and God knows what else. It's scary.

Foz2012

Anonymous said...

Hey Foz2012 - I've also read that most who got polio had the vaccine. I have zero trust in pharma. Not much more in docs.

Anonymous said...

HTMA
Blood Tests (countless)
Urine Tests (countless incl Porphyrin)
CT/MRI
UGI
Abd U/S

How many tests does a child need to endure to disprove a theory to make YOU feel better? I have the proof I need.

All these [negative] tests + therapies + love = child improving.

What happened to "so you found something to work for your child, great. If you don't approve of my way, fuck off?"

How about, "I'm sorry to hear your child has autism, not MP, and I wish you well with continued progress. I on the other hand have a child that does NOT have autism but instead is mercury poisoned - and he will be cured in ___ days." ??

..........or is he cured already?


Maxima - until you've walked in my shoes, don't proclaim to have any understanding whatsoever of what it is like to have a child with Autism, spouting ridiculous notions that it's a curable disorder. For a woman who has been around for a long time, you have little common sense.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, Did you do a hair test for Deranged Mineral Transport? Was the urine test a chelation challenge test? Did you check for genetics, fragile X, Rett's? Did you check for measles titres? Did you try GF/CF diet or another diet? Did you see a DAN doctor?

Anonymous said...

Is your son cured?
I hear it's only 4-6 months --- maybe even a year...and certainly you've been doing this for that long.

At this point, he must be having sleepovers, going to birthday parties, playing baseball on a team, doing well in mainstreamed school, needing no other speech or occupational therapy, yes?

All 'cured' now right???????????

Please, share with me all your success.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, No, wise ass, he's not all cured. Perhaps he would have been cured quickly if we had started chelation when he was 3 or 4. We couldn't start until he was 8.
There's several posts back some months talking about the progress he has made. He's finally saying some more words. It's slow but it's progress.
I could subscribe to the nitwit philosophy and just give him lots of loooove and celebrate the joy of brain damage but I think medicine is a much better bet. Love didn't do a damn thing for him until we added chelation to the mix.

watson said...

Googlybear said...
Watson, My daughter can not stand the sound of someone singing.

Googly, Prior to my son's regression, after the last vaccine he received at age two, he sang with us every single night before bedtime, and we had lots of fun doing the actions together. After the vaccine, whenever we tried to sing to him, he kicked us away and screamed. It took us some time to realise that his perception of sound had changed and that our voices actually hurt his ears.

Even if they don't believe it is curable, you would think they would still want to know how to maintain their health and minimize their more disabling issues.

One would think so. But anyone listening to ND would most likely believe that any intervention would destroy their unique talents, and affect their personality.

I think that autism is unique in this area because of some of the unique features of autism, one of which is fear of change.

You could be right, but I strongly suspect that many activists don't really have autism.

She only did it when walking fast or running, she would literally run sideways because she was looking out the corner of her eyes. .

That sounds very familiar!

watson said...

Duh! Sorry Maxima. I didn't read your message properly. I'm a great fan of Dr. Andrew Wakefield, and I jumped the gun when I saw his name and “movie”.

Have you heard him having a go at Dr. Kathleen Stratton of the IOM? It’s half-way down this page:

http://www.nomercury.org/iom.htm
“Verbal exchange between Dr. Kathleen Stratton, IOM Study Director and Dr. Andrew Wakefield.
As recorded at Autism One Conference in Chicago on May 27, 2004.


John, Please listen to this.

watson said...

dr. thomas good md said...
And to assist Joeker, I think Whooping Cough would be worse for a baby than Autism.

Would you please explain how one or two shots of pertussis vaccine can possibly protect a baby, when children need a series of FIVE shots of pertussis vaccine between 2 months and 6 years in order to be "fully-immunized"?

It used to be three shots, then four, now five, and still babies too young to be completely 'immunized' are getting whooping cough, and that has more to do with doctors misdiagnosing the disease in children and adults, than babies not getting vaccinated. If doctors keep calling whooping cough, "bronchitis", "viral asthma" or "the hundred day cough" in vaccinated children, they are putting vulnerable babies at risk. Vaccinated babies still get whooping cough.

I see that according to James Cherry there are over 3 million cases of pertussis in adolescents and adults every year, and now that there is a "safer" DTP vaccine that can be given to adults, pertussis vaccinations are on the cards for everyone. (As a doctor, you will remember that the "safe" DTP given to children for decades was far too reactive for anyone over the age of six.)

If DTaP is added to the adult schedule, will you be getting your regular shots, or are you like other doctors who just vaccinate the masses, and don't believe in vaccinating themselves or their own children?

Autism is far, far worse than whooping cough, dr. thomas good md. My son got brain-damage from the very vaccines designed to protect him from brain-damage. But it was called "autism".

Not only that, at age five, despite being "fully-immunized", he got whooping cough, along with many other vaccinated children at his school.

watson said...

dr. thomas good md, Kanner was a well-known and widely-respected child psychiatrist, and he'd been working in this field for more than ten years, before meeting these strange children. If he'd been wrong about discovering a completely new and "unique" condition, don't you think his peers would have told him that he was an idiot?

Bleuler used the term Autism to describe certain adults with schizophrenia who had lost awareness of what was happening around them, retreated into themselves, and were preoccupied with themselves and their own thoughts. He was describing a group of schizophrenic adults, not babies and infants.

Fore Sam said...

Watson, Wakefield sounded very confident while Stratton was mumbling. I just listened to some of it, will hear the rest after Sam goes to bed.

Fore Sam said...

Watson, Amanda Baggs sure wouldn't qualify for autism according to Bleuler. She was so aware of Droopy that she sicked a lawyer on her. BTW, Droopy had a comment today on one of the A. Baggs posts.

watson said...

Fore Sam said...
Wakefield sounded very confident while Stratton was mumbling. I just listened to some of it, will hear the rest after Sam goes to bed.

Good. I think you'll really enjoy the rest of it....

Amanda Baggs sure wouldn't qualify for autism according to Bleuler. She was so aware of Droopy that she sicked a lawyer on her. BTW, Droopy had a comment today on one of the A. Baggs posts.

Saw that. Droopy knows the difference between autism and paranoid schizophrenia. I agree with you about, Amanda, and if she still believes she's an elf, gets messages from the Others, and feels she's being controlled, I wonder what category Bleuler would have put her in.

Fore Sam said...

Watson, Wakefield hit the nail on the head, "tantamount to medical negligence and unacceptable". Then the crapola about the IOM not being able to discuss it.
I'm sure if my senators from NH had been there, they would have chirped in about protecting the drug companies so everyone can have their medicine. Like their asets wouldn't be snapped up on Wall Street in a heartbeat to continue business as usual.

Anonymous said...

http://www.picturepage.net/adults.html

Isn't this picture at this link Amanda Baggs, 50 lbs lighter, no wheelchair or voice box in sight?

Fore Sam said...

I'd say Amanda was at least 200 pounds lighter then. Carrying that weight can make anyone lazy enough to ride in a wheelchair.

Googlybear said...

At this point, he must be having sleepovers, going to birthday parties, playing baseball on a team, doing well in mainstreamed school, needing no other speech or occupational therapy, yes?

All 'cured' now right???????????


Anon, this is an example of flawed thinking that goes on in the neurodiversity movement. Where they think "cure" is some kind of magical movie type cure where you give the kid an antidote type shot and they are all better. Autism is a complicated condition that takes a long time to fully heal a person from. The more severe the child, the harder that task is. Also, even if the brain function fully returns, the child has alot of catching up to do. Think about it, if a child is stuck at 1 or 2 years old mentally until they are 8 years old. They are going to have years of development they missed to catch up on. So you might see a child who is 10 doing things a 3 or 4 year old would be doing, which to the outside world looks like they are not "better" or "cured". When in fact what is actually happening is they are hitting normal developmental milestones in the normal order and time frame they should have hit them years ago. Give the kid a chance to heal and progress.

I wonder why you are so defensive? Is it because you know that love isn't really enough, in the same way that love doesn't cure cancer, but you don't really want people like John to be right because then you would have to do something?

Googlybear said...

Watson,

My dd used to like me to sing Old McDonald and then she got to where she couldn't stand anyone singing.

As for the fake autism ND activists, I think the change some of them fear is that the disability checks will stop rolling in. The ones that disgust me are the ones who are capable enough to have careers, be parents, get married and buy houses. Then suddenly they decide in middle age, that they were always kind of odd and that translates into being Aspergers (of course, because AS means intelligent but impaired enough to be disabled, while autism means Rainman comparisons), and suddenly they can not function in their life anymore, their employers aren't accomodating their 'disability' and they just have to go on disability to function. Makes me want to vomit.

Amanda Baggs is obviously either Schizophrenic or she has Munchausens (which means she probably faked the schizophrenia and the autism). People with Munchausen can be very persistent. ND needs Amanda Baggs though, because it allows them to have a poster child for 'low functioning autism' saying "hey, we care about the low functioning and look it ain't so bad" so they can go back to raping the social security system, bitching about the accomodations they want in life and ignoring the really disabled in the autism community. Speaking of accomodating. Janalou had a post on her blog recently where she was whining about all the supports she wants in college for her ADHD disability, including portable swivel seats, special pencils and being excused from tests. I swear, is it me or are people getting more and more whiney these days. Everyone is in a special group anymore that needs special accomodation and specialized pc language applied to it.

Fore Sam said...

Googly, You've given me an idea. I think I have Golfer's Syndrome which makes impossible for me to concentrate on work when I'd rather be golfing. I think I should receive a disability for this that will pay my greens fees and allow me to play golf every day. Do you think now that David Andrews is a graduated psychologist that he could have this added to the DSM so I won't have to endure not being able to play golf all the time?

Googlybear said...

John,

Getting exposure for your disabling condition is the first step. You must set up a blog, but you can't call it addicted to golf or anything. Nobody will support you. You need a pc name. Obsessive Golfing Fixation, OGF for short. Then you need to start advocating. First you need a list of great golfers whom everyone admires like Tiger Woods. You must use this list to claim that golfing has given you special gifts, therefore any means to cure or even diminish the more interruptive parts of your disability is an attempt to erradicate you. When you mention erradication, you absolutely have to mention the Holocaust and slavery, or else you won't properly frighten people into a pc coma and they might question you. If all else fails, rant about gay rights and try get your opposition to say anything that you can use to build a straw man and attack them with ad hominems. Once you get enough people mindlessly angry at your opposition, you have to employ a list of politically correct language that can be applied to your disability, including no longer calling it a disability but it is now a diversity. A diversity means that you can have all the perks of being disabled while not actually having to live the life of a disabled person. You should start railing against movies like Caddyshack which has incorrectly stereotype golfers. You have to show proper disgust at catch phrases like "be the ball, na na na naa" and claim that real people with OGF never talk like this. You should also start a support forum where people can discuss at length golf clubs, putting greens and how NG's (non-golfers) are mean to them. Around this time, some organizations might pop up like "Cure Obsessive Golfing Fixation Now" and you might find a blog called Hating OGF. Don't worry, you can counter this. First, make Youtube videos of yourself and maybe even your kids saying things like, "look, this is what golfers look like." Force your kids to putt for the video, even if they are bored, and claim that they were golfers from birth. Second, make videos and write blog enteries smearing and distorting OGF cures, pictures of nuclear blasts and screaming kids helps. Third, hire a non-OGF person who looks kind of wacky. Make the person wear shirts with catchy slogans like, "Golfers are people too" and "Stop restricting us from the golf course". The pictures should be in black and white, and should be put to some sad music perhaps. Fourth, you should also allow anyone who says they have OGF to join, even if they don't really golf but play tennis or foosball instead. This will build your numbers and lend credibility. Don't forget to go diagnosis shopping so you can get your diagnosis and your disability checks. Hope that helps. Good luck with your future endeavor and don't let anyone ever discriminate against you!!!

dr. thomas good md said...

I see there is no purpose discussing this matter with you any further, Mr. Best. I am a qualified medical practitiioner. You are not. I have attempted to give you information and you persist in ignoring it resorting to personal abuse.

I make this clear. I have seen numerous examples of Autism being mis-diagnosed as Schizophrenia thanks to Bleuler. Kanner was wrong - Kraepolin had seen it before. Kanner can't have been aware of his work in order to make such a statement, which would have been a mistake on his part.

I am also certain that records of institutions prior to World War 1 would have included Autistic adults.

But you choose not to believe the truth - so I bid farewell to you, and I hope you do not harm your son with the attitude you are putting forth. I dread to think what he will be like with a narrow minded individual like you providing his moral guidance.

Anonymous said...

You're insane, Fore Sam. Completely mad. Check yourself into hospital quick. You're on the verge of snapping like the VTech dude. Hope you don't have guns!

Fore Sam said...

Googly, I think we're on to something. George Bush will support it because people with OGF will help make rich golf course owners richer. The golf course owners will make campaign contributions, triple the greens fees and the politicians will subsidize everyone with OGF so they can golf free.
Neurodiversity will support it because curing OGF would be the same as killing the golfer.
Budweiser will sponsor events to support everyone with OGF and get the government to buy the beer at the 19th hole to make sure OGFers enjoy the total golfing experience.
Golfers for Freedom will rant against cruel and abusive people who think golfers should have to work as that would detract from celebrating the joy of OGF.
I'll bet if I give Kathleen Seidel some free golf lessons, I can get her interested in the game and she will write essays about unethical golf pros who try to cure hooks and slices. Then, good players will be able to make easy money betting with those golfers who don't want to improve their games.
Sounds like a Win-Win all around. Oh, I forgot about the taxpayers. That's OK , nobody cares about them.

Anonymous said...

This just in;

Upon the discovery of OGF, doctors were quick to link it to the Autistic Spectrum due to it's routine and autonomous nature.

The subject, Mr John Best Jnr, quickly rejected the diagnosis of OGF on the grounds that the doctor concerned had attempted to poison him.

Said the doctor;

"All I was trying to do was change his golf swing for a better result and he had a meltdown."

Still want to deny you're one of us and you can't change it, Foreskin?

Worried Golfer said...

John,

Can you help? I play mini golf and find myself drawn to the bigger courses. I tend to peer over the hedges and marvel at the shiny irons and woods. Have I OGF or am I crazy? I sometimes like to hang round the women's tees too! (don't know what that means). I'm also very short sighted (this just may be a co morbidity) so need to carry powerful binoculars so I can see the balls! I feel discriminated against as I've been banned from several golf clubs because I'm 'different'. Why does everyone hate me?

Fore Sam said...

Worried Golfer, Don't get down about this. We are going to fight this discrimination and bullying. We'll have binoculars installed in the woods so you can watch the woman golfers without being bothered.

maxima said...

Watson there is some truth behind these studies, I hope they´re investegated further. They´re saying that the triple vaccination is what´s causing these intestinal disorders which has lead to autism for some kids. When a child gets one vaccination at a time this is not known to happen; according to the study.

BTW, Anonymous, don´t put down my intelligence. Post in your real name if you´re going to insult me. I never claimed to have a cure for autism or even claimed to know what it´s like to have an autistic child. My best friend does happen to have an autistic son so this does interest me and I don´t think Foresam expects everyone here to be a parent of an autistic. If people are not allowed to question or wonder why autism is happening in increased numbers in western society then you live in a narrow world.

Anonymous said...

Googly,
Since neither you nor Best actually read things that don't support YOUR opinions, I'll state this one last time.

Doing nothing, well that's just stupid. Doing chelation, when there are NO MEDICAL REASONS to do it, that's abuse. Doing traditional therapies, and working with your child day in and day out, and seeing results, ie., communication, less frustration, learning, growing, progress, well, I guess that makes me a damn good parent.

Not calling disabled children "monsters" or "inhuman" - again, makes me a damn good parent.

Love does not conquer all, of course, but I have more love for my child than the contempt Mr. Best does for his child. Contempt will NOT help that child grow, therapy and hard work and love will.

I also find it interesting that with all the bashing of the medical world, he has resorted to "medical treatment" (his words). Funny, if that's what he truly believes got him there in the first place, he's not only not a damn good parent, but he's also a hypocrite.

Maxima...is that your real name?
You 'scold' your friend for arguing with those that provide him proof that his theories of "no autism before 1931" are dead wrong -- are you out of your mind? All this man does is argue and call people names, berate and disrespect and bully the disabled.

Go ahead Maxima, keep up your support for the bigot - keep being the fine woman you are.

I'll just keep raising a fine, smart, wonderful and caring child.
We'll just see who dies in the end with a black heart.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, I think you should get yourself a bag of weed or a twelve pack and chill out for awhile.

Joeker said...

Hey everyone! Joeker here! Since Fore Sam refused to post several of my comment, I'll be placing them in my blog, with the relevant posts.

I wonder just what it was that Fore didn't want me to say?

With a raised eyebrow,
~Joeker

Fore Sam said...

Joeker, I was sick of hearing the same garbage over and over. Go sign up with the Autism Hub of Insanity where you will be welcomed.

Joeker said...

Aw, but I don't want to leave good ol' HA behind, and move on to new vistas of defending viewpoints against people who think there's only black and white sides in dealing with Autism.

Seen my blog post on the comments you refused to show? =P

Anonymous said...

OGF,
I got my much needed laugh of the day. You lot are a hoot.

You make an excellent point too. Anything can become a syndrome and anyone can demand special treatment for it. As I have said before, if you don't want it cured then don't ask for special priviledges because of it.


As for dr thomas goode md, who likes to use lower case letters like k.d.lang and e.e cummings,
this is dr.fox2012 md who believes that a combination of genetics and vaccines or in some cases, just the vaccines, (otherwise known as (Poison and Garbage) that is with capital letters) is what causes autism spectrum disorders.

Vaccines? I'd rather drink gasoline fresh from the pump because it would be safer.

Googlybear said...

Anon, (the angry one)

Not calling disabled children "monsters" or "inhuman" - again, makes me a damn good parent.

Who is calling autistic children monsters and inhuman? You are starting to freak out and babble.

There are other things you can do besides chelation.

I do read opinions that do not match my own. How do you think I got that belly full of neurodiversity? I was reading their blogs.

Want to hear something hypocritical. While bellowing about the dangers of biomed, much of which tries to use natural supplements to get to the root of issues. Autism Vox, mom to autistic son Charlie, has her son on some psych meds. Yep, that's what I found out while reading an opinion other than my own yesterday. Somehow while claiming out of one side of her mouth that autism is not something to cure, she is desperate enough to resort to psych meds to control the behaviors she doesn't think should be cured but are obviously too disabling and disruptive. Do you seriously think that psych meds and antidepressants have no or few side effects? Some of those side effects can be quite serious. Much more serious than those found with MB12 shots or chelation. Hypocricy much? It's shit like that that keeps me coming back to sane blogs like this one and sane biomed support groups.

Joeker said...

Googly: It's not the sanity. I find both sides to be more than simply insane, including this one.

You're coming back for an opposition to the blogs you just read, on the other side. It's not the fact that this blog is somehow in your eyes sane, but the fact that he hates the insane others whom you strongly disagree with.

I find myself shocked that you feel this way about this blog, and hoped you'd find respect for groups whom don't spend their time insulting people, and of course, censoring anything that he feels is an effective counter to his arguments. That, or he'll use the excuse that he's bored of my "ramblings."

Open-ish, but mainly to Fore: Of course, I'm a little on the untrusting side, and so I began saving my comments before posting them, just waiting for when he censored me, so as that I can examine just how close to a nerve I hit. I think if you examine my blog, should Fore not censor this comment as well, that I've taken him to task on a vile statement, and he couldn't bear to lose all the respect he's garnering from his blog.

Oh, and he's reading this, and judging if it's fit to put up. Something I don't do. Call me crazy, but for someone as cautious as I, I'm sure not guarding my blog too well.

Well, ciao for now, and here's hoping Fore doesn't wipe this message!

~Joeker

Anonymous said...

As for dr thomas goode md, who likes to use lower case letters

Small point, Fox. When names are shown on the Leave Your Comment page they are always in lower case. Not all of us are computer literate like you my friend.

Anonymous said...

John,

You are not getting the big payoff you hoped for, so you can stop your stupid blog and go back to the business of alternately ignoring and abusing your kids.

I'd call you disgusting, but that's an insult to disgusting people.

Anonymous said...

Googlybear said...
Anon, (the angry one)
Not calling disabled children "monsters" or "inhuman" - again, makes me a damn good parent.

Who is calling autistic children monsters and inhuman?


Googly, actually read the posts on the blog you're commenting on.

Googlybear said...

Anon,

Give me one quoted comment where an autistic child was called a monster or inhuman. Really, since you must have read the comment and not me, I would like to know.

Anonymous said...

Just read the blog.

here's one - referring to Autists:
Monkeys should keep their mouths shut until they gain intelligence comparable to humans

Yet I wonder - does he include his son in this group?

Dig deep (if you want to) this man has been spouting hatred of those with Autism for nearly two years here.

This one IS about his son (note: before chelation apparently)

a screaming "train wreck" of a kid

.and.

If you had an animal like this, you wouldn't think twice about putting it out of its' misery.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, As is typical of ND nitwits, you missed the point. Yes, I called my son a screaming trainwreck. That's what he was. That's why I helped him so he is no longer a train wreck. That's called honesty, jackass. That's the truth about autism.
Autism is never something to be celebrated like your lying scumbags at Neurodiversity like to portray it. It is a fucking nightmare for everyone involved with it. Alleged autistics who engage in this deception are much less valuable than monkeys.
The way you take things out of context, I'd swear it was Kevin Leitch making the comment. But, he's probably too busy looking for bananas to train his daughter with.

Anonymous said...

I guess it's all about perspective Fore Sam. My son has another condition that makes me wish he ONLY had Autism. Maybe if you look hard, you'll see there's more to them than the struggle you perceive.

The days mine is only Autistic are far better than other days.

And by the way, I really have no idea what people you're talking about when you say ND. I am merely a parent, trying to make his life better, less stressful and teach his the way I know he is capable. Autism does not equal stupid, I'm certainly not lowering my standards because of it.

The only thing is - I don't do what you do - but I guarantee you, I've made great progress. Doesn't make me wrong. Or anyone else that doesn't agree with you.

maxima said...

Anon said:"
Go ahead Maxima, keep up your support for the bigot - keep being the fine woman you are.

I'll just keep raising a fine, smart, wonderful and caring child.
We'll just see who dies in the end with a black heart."

Anonymous, are you smoking crack? I'll get a black heart because I don't agree with you and feel a need to express my opinions on a blog on the internet? I reccomend that you take some logic classes and you'll come to the same conclusion as I do when I read your comments.
Anonymous mom = crack smoking, hardly educated attention whore.

Go practice your flamming abilities if that is what your rants towards me were supposed to be.....

Anonymous said...

Maxima...is that your real name?
You 'scold' your friend for arguing with those that provide him proof that his theories of "no autism before 1931" are dead wrong -- are you out of your mind? All this man does is argue and call people names, berate and disrespect and bully the disabled.


Congrats on joining the bigot club Maxima.

Again, don't presume to know what it's like to have a child with Autism. You know nothing of which you speak.

Anonymous mom = crack smoking, hardly educated attention whore.
All grown up now are you?
What are you, 12?

maxima said...

Where have I stated that I know what it is like to have a child with autism???? Please point me to it because I never claimed to know what it's like.

Get a life you anonymous poster, calling me a bigot because I hope there is a cure for autism???

I never stated anywhere that autism didn't exist before 1931; so get your facts straight. I've said this before and will say it again; I might not agree with everything Foresam says on here but I respect him for standing up to a controversial issue regarding the vaccination issue.

Now go back to the hole you came from.........

Googlybear said...

Maxima,

Anonymous mom has some serious anger issues. I think they stem from her guilt and insecurity about not pursuing a cure for her child. Usually people who suffer from guilt will lash out in a manner more extreme than the situation warrants. The only person she is really attacking is herself. Unfortunately, many people will not self examine if the answer they come up with is that they are fundamentally in the wrong. Instead they will try to force the whole world to change to their point of view and tell them they are right. I pity anonymous mom. I don't think she will die with a black heart, but one day her heart might break from what she should have done for her child. I think the full reality will come to the forefront when she is too old to care for her child and s/he becomes a ward of the state. It is always the sane position to be on the side of giving children the opportunity to reach their maximum potential. Parenting is about wanting your kids to grow into independant adults, not be perpetual children.

Anonymous said...

You all crack me up.
If I'm doing such a poor job, I wonder why my son can speak, have conversations, goes to regular school, etc.

I've come a long way in helping my son, and it doesn't involve drugs like Foresam has to use (yet claims is the cause). You all want to keep imaging there's a cure, go ahead, there's nothing wrong with hope. I on the other hand, know better, and so I do what any decent parent would do - continue what I'm doing, because it works.

You all crack me up, seriously.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, If nothing can cure autism, why do you bother doing anything to help your son? If you know better, that means you are an ignorant person who has not learned of the children who have already been cured. You're wrong, so shut up.

Anonymous said...

If nothing can cure autism, why do you bother doing anything to help your son?
Is this a serious question????

If you know better, that means you are an ignorant person who has not learned of the children who have already been cured.
My son is as old as yours. How are their abilities similar? Does your son talk, go to mainstreamed classes, dress himself, etc? Are you knocking what shows as actual proof?

Show where to view before/after videos of the cured children. (honestly) I'm truly interested. I don't knock anyone for doing what works for them. Just so happens, no meds/no chelation works for us. Yet you refuse to accept that, and insist that your way is the only way Foresam. NOT true. Your way is NOT the only way.

You're wrong, so shut up.
Like I said, you crack me up.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, How bad was your son? What he can do has nothing to do with kids who've been cured who you deny exist. What do you use to help your kid? I'm sure you know where to see those videos you ask for, stop calling parents liars.

watson said...

maxima said...
Watson there is some truth behind these studies, I hope they´re investegated further. They´re saying that the triple vaccination is what´s causing these intestinal disorders which has lead to autism for some kids. When a child gets one vaccination at a time this is not known to happen; according to the study.

Maxima, mercury can also damage the gut. It's my belief that autism is caused by a domino effect. Some children I know didn't get as far as receiving the MMR , the DPT, or DT was enough, and for others, the one that pushed them over the edge was the single measles vaccine, not the triple.

Googlybear said...

Anon, perhaps your child is not as severely affected as John's son. You know, there is a reason it is called a spectrum. You are like someone whose child is missing a finger telling a parent whose child was born with no arms and legs what a good parent you are because your child can walk and use his hands. Well goody good for you. Maybe your child doesn't need much else or maybe your child would benefit from a few natural supplements that would enhance function.

My kid is also doing all the things you brag about your kid doing, but at age 6. She doesn't need any aides or therapies of any kind. I must be doing something right. I'm so smart. Oh yea, I was talking about my NT kid. See how that works. Comparing abilities of one kid to another means nothing about ones parenting.

Joeker said...

However, I'd like to speak with her on my blog. The last time I tried to ask, I was blocked from posting by Fore, for some inane reason. I'd rather speak in an un-moderated enviroment.

I'm curious, Anon Mom. I'd like to hear more.

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