Sunday, May 13, 2007

New Autistic Condition Discovered (OGF) Through Neurodiversity

I have just learned that I am autistic. Like many adults who have suffered their entire lives and not known exactly why they were different, Neurodiversity helped me understand that my brain is wired differently. I have been perseverating on one thing for 43 years. I have been fixated on this one aspect of my life, sometimes ignoring pain and bleeding, many missed days at work, been called crazy for pursuing this fixation in rain, below zero temperatures, snow and 100 degree heat. I have the autistic condition known as Obsessive Golfing Fixation (OGF). I do not want to be cured.

I know I was born with OGF as was every male in my family. My grandfathers, all my uncles, all my cousins, my father and my brother all had OGF. One grandfather realized natural improvement in his symptoms and he was cured when he turned 97 and could no longer swing a club. All of the rest are still afflicted with this condition. However, we choose to celebrate this natural diversity. I'd like to thank Neurodiversity for pointing out that we should embrace our differences. We golfers are sick of being discriminated against by tyrannical employers insisting that we go to work on sunny days. To anyone with OGF, sunny days are an irresistible cue to call in sick and head to the golf course. It is much like autistic stimming. We just can't resist that urge because it is who we are and that need to golf should be accommodated by sadistic bosses. While everyone with OGF cares deeply about their work not being done or someone else being forced to do our job, our inherent need to play golf must be accepted as part of our condition. It is a part of us that can not be fixed. Any boss who insists that we show up for work instead of going golfing is bullying us and our government must make laws that allow us to celebrate the joy of OGF without fear of being fired.

Those of us with OGF are high functioning autistics. We have families, friends, college educations and good jobs. Many wives have tried to cure us but, so far, the only cure seems to be old age, feebleness and permanent injury. I do not want to be cured as that would be akin to killing the golfer within.

Since OGF has not yet been added to the DSM, it's important for all autism organizations to recognize this newly discovered subset of autistics so that society will accomodate our needs. We would be much happier if the government paid all our greens fees and provided us with disability payments so we could concentrate on golfing all the time without being bothered by mundane things like work.

OGF is a genetic condition that began with a defective gene in Scotland in the 19th century. The condition is now worldwide and affects millions of people, mostly men. This discovery drives a stake into the hearts of all those crazy people who tried to blame thimerosal for causing autism. With this, we now know that millions of people with the autistic subset called OGF have existed for well over a century. We need support, not a cure. Since all the great golfers in history must have been autistic, it would be cruel and abusive for anyone to try to cure OGF and deny the world the next Sam Snead or Tiger Woods. Let's declare OGF a disability so we can stop the abuse of golfers now.

116 comments:

Googlybear said...

John,

I applaud you for coming out!

The other day my son took a baseball bat and tried to hit the ball on the ground. Obviously he is incapable of playing baseball because of his sporting-diversity. He must have OGF. The neighbors didn't understand and they tried to get him to hit the baseball in the air with the bat. They said he was ruining the baseball game. I can't believe how intolerant these jerks are!!!11! He has OGF. Why can't they accomodate the game for him so all the kids can play. When it is his turn, they could set the baseball on a golf ball tee and let him use the bat like a putter. That would be inclusion.

I went down to the school to demand that the gym teacher makes all the sport games golf friendly. I want his teacher to make sure he always has a golf club and golf balls in his hand in class. The school prinicipal claims that there are children who are severely affected by OGF, that some of those kids spend all day trying to eat golf balls and hitting themselves with golf clubs. I'm sure he is just exaggerating.

Fore Sam said...

Googly, I wouldn't be too concerned about eating golf balls or hitting oneself with the club. Golfers don't want any dirt on the ball when they're putting. He was probably just trying to clean it. Most golfers throw the club before they learn to overcome their temper. You'll just have to give him some occupational therapy to take his anger over a bad shot out on the club instead of on himself. Young golfers have to be taught to never blame themselves. It's better for their psyche if they can always find something else to blame.

Anonymous said...

John - as always an excellent post!

Happy Mother's Day to Sam's Mom, Googly & all other Mom's stopping in here today.

Proud Golfie said...

I'm proud of my golfing "fixation" and believe in celebrating the joy of OGF.
It IS a GENETIC condition that I inherited from my father.
To satisfy his OGF he worked for many years as a caddy for a prestigious country club before he was sacked and wrongly blamed for the clubs dwindling membership. They said members were complaining that he often disappeared during a game, always to be found on the 19th hole attempting an eagle or an albatross. Personally, I think he would have achieved his ultimate goal of a hole in one, had it not been for the blatant discrimination of his employers, who robbed him of his dignity and refused to accomodate or even acknowledge his OGF.
He's a broken man now. He's on disabilty with 'gofers elbow' while he waits for his full assessment for OGF.
I was diagnosed with OGF after leaving high school. I was severely bullied by my peers who couldn't understand why I didn't take to tennis or football.
Luckily, my diagnosis allowed for early intervention, and while I developed 'golfers elbow' in my late teens, my disability checks have given me the freedom from working for a living, and the ability to enjoy my OGF for what it is, a genetic diversity that needs understanding, support acceptance and most of all, love...

I think this is a matter of civil rights - THE RIGHT TO GOLF.
Now is the time to make golfing a realty for all, and I have a dream that one day everyone will become golfers.
You can take away my clubs, but you will never take my FREEDOM TO GOLF!

PS. Look out for my new blog "Whose golf course is it anyway?" I call myself OGFH (Obsessive Golfer from Hell). Kinda catchy isn't it!

Googlybear said...

Oh yea, you better change your screen name, John. Now that you have OGF, you need a catchy blogging name like Golf Duke or OGF Divo. Then you have to talk about yourself in the third person at all times.

Fore Sam said...

Proud Golfie; You're right. We can't let NG's (non golfers) push us around any longer. We need to have lights installed at all the golf corses so we can play all night and they should build some domed golf courses to keep the rain and snow off.
We have to push for early diagnosis for everyone. I spent too many years working when I should have been able to golf all day.

Michelle Lawson said...

Hello all.
I am an extremely excellent and reveered autistic researcher.
Much of my fabulous fantastic research has been in the field of ABA, (aplied behavioral analysis). There are many peer reviewed studies and scientific research showing that ABA is a critical educational therapy for autistic children. I have devoted my life to campaighning for ABA in Canada and everyone there thinks I'm just great!
I wonder, could you consider for one moment, a life without OGF, a normal life. ABA WILL help you achieve this.
Instead of spending evey sunny day on the golf course, imagine waking up on a sunny day and looking forward to a picnic or a day at the beach with your families!
There is help out there for those with OGF, if they it. I know there is, because I'm an expert on everything and everyone in Canada thinks I'm really brilliant!
Please think about this.
You don't have to live like this...

Worried Golfer said...

John,

This is great news I finally feel like I belong, my diversity will finally be recognized. The binoculars are an integral part of my disorder and feel these issues should be addressed as rightfully pointed out earlier. Maybe I have the 'binocular gene'! It's only fair that this be taken into account as it is part of my diversity but I'm unsure of the cost implications here, if there are more like me. The binoculars I use are very powerful and expensive as I need to be able to see the brand name on the golf balls from great distances. Also I need to know what brand of clothing the female golfers are wearing. There are a lot of brands out there you know! This is all very comforting to me as I thought I was mad. These strange pleasures I've been experiencing are all part of my diverse condition and I'm going to celebrate my binoculars with pride from now on. Get in there OGF, what a result. Let's get out there and swing with the best of them. No more cowering behind the trees with my binoculars and wood! Let's rock n' roll. I would like to say a more powerful set of binoculars would be beneficial to my condition but I can't afford $4,000 for the lastest technology. It makes me sick that someone as disabled as myself is unable to receive appropriate equipment when there are people out there fleecing the system.

Fore Sam said...

Worried golfer, Perhaps we can have webcams installed on all the ladies tees so you can watch at home.

Fore Sam said...

Michelle, Are you the famous researcher who works with Lawrence Mowron? It's great to have you here to help. I know everyone with OGF is thrilled that you are considering our problem worthy of your time.

michelle Lawson said...

Hi Mr Best,
I should have know you would have heard of me (and Larry of course).
I'm pleased to hear that you're all so thrilled to have me devote some of my precious time to enlighten you.
First and foremost, Mr Best, I must stress to you that my opinion in relation to autism and OGF, is that anyone suffering from this debilitating condition must seek all evidence and research, leaving no stone unturned when concerned with seeking any treatment to alleviate the said condition.
Secondly, in my endeavours to find these treatments/therapies, and when concerning aflicted children, my standpoint is very strongly rooted in my belief that while all parents not only have an obligation to investigate every avenue possible in their search for a cause and a cure, these parents absolutely MUST be listened to and heard.

My good friend and fellow advocate Mr Gerald L Doherty will back me up when I say, we must acknowledge the severity and limitations of autism and OGF, and that in 99.9% cases, the parent is always the best advocate, for nobody knows their child better than they do.

Fore Sam said...

Michelle, We don't want any cures for OGF. We just want society to be more understanding and accepting of our condition so we can play golf every day and avoid having to work. It would be great if we had free beer at the 19th hole too.

Joeker said...

Congratulations! Now, all you need to have done is evaluations by the WHO, or whichever organization is in charge, and have this new condition examined thoroughly, sorted into criteria, and verified as a condition which effects the mind in a way which can be classified as a mental condition.

I wish you luck in your quest!
You'll need it.

Droopy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

I used to have schizophrenia but I was misdiagnosed. I actually have OGF and now I know I have it I want a golf cart to take me everywhere because I'm too fat to walk and I want a voice synthesizer so that I do not have to yell "hole in one" and "birdie" anymore.

I am going to make videos where I will rub golf clubs against golf balls to speak my language which I will post on Youtube.

If anyone is prejudiced against me I will get a lawyer to sue them.

signed Golf Elf.

Fore Sam said...

Droopy, You'll be our spokesmodel? Great!! There was that Canadian golfer who died a year or two ago. He was autistic and played on the pro tour. I can't remember his name but he was supposed to have been the best ball striker who ever lived. He slept in sand traps at one tournament because he didn'thave the money for a motel room.
Maybe I could help you with your golf game and you could teach me to act low functioning so I can get social security and a full time caddie. Some of Amanda's friends already call me autistic so now I just have find out where she got her acting lessons.

Droopy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Golf Queen said...

Golf Queen would like to address Michelle Lawson. Golf Queen does not believe that Golf Queen needs a cure for OGF. Golf Queen never cured Golf Queen's adult son who has much worse OGF than Golf Queen. Golf Queen doesn't believe he needs a cure. Golf Queen doesn't see how there can be a cure for the golf gene that Golf Queen was born with. Golf Queen thinks that DGN! doctors are a bunch of dangerous charlatans. Golf Queen likes to celebrate Golf Queen's diversity with dancing clowns and balloons. Just the other day Golf Queen was saying to Golf Queen, "Golf Queen you are one fabulous queen of golf." Then Golf Queen stimmed on the 6th hole with a golf club.

Still golfing,
Golf Queen

Fore Sam said...

Droopy, His name was Moe Norman.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/golf/2004-09-28-norman_x.htm
I never considered being an actor. I guess I can just imitate my son and the kids I worked with in an institution. Since Amanda became autistic in her twenties, I guess I can do it in my 50's.
Maybe we'll get some publicity out of this and some lawyer will advise you how to deal with Baggs' lawyer without costing yourself a fortune.

BigTimeSynesthete said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Googlybear said...

Big Time, you do actually understand the concept of satire, right?

BigTimeSynesthete said...

I was being impulsive; i had to delete my comment. I'm such a big time nitwit, aren't I?

Fore Sam said...

BigTimeSynesthete has left a new comment on your post "New Autistic Condition Discovered (OGF) Through Ne...":

This is what Big Time "Nitwit" wants to hear, Foresam. You are finally learning the truth about autism. You have it yourself, and that is why your son has it! Something has caused you to think it is mercury, probably because mercury could have caused the comorbids. But no, you have OGF, and you son has some other form of autism. But likewise, a person with AS can easily have LFA children, just like all those Silicon Valley nerds.

God bless the year 2007, for being almost better than 2006. Good luck with the OGF and making it an official disorder!



Posted by BigTimeSynesthete to Hating Autism at Sun May 13, 05:33:00 PM PDT

michelle Lawson said...

Hi Golf Queen,
I have to say I am astonished at your apathetic, devil may care attitude towards your son.
Anyone who would deny their child the opportunity of ABA and the chance of becoming a high functioning Golfer are nothing but child abusers.
I have already sacrificed my precious time in explaining my stance on the matter of OGF. If you don't agree with me then that is your choice. But I must warn you that NOBODY, I say NOBODY DISAGREES WITH MICHELLE LAWSON, because I am the LEADING AUTHORITY ON OFG and I AM RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING. DON'T YOU KNOW WHY I AM? HAVEN'T YOU HEARD OF THE TERM OGF SAVANT? I AM ONE OF THEM, I TELL YOU! I SWEAR I AM!

The next time you see Golf Queen, you can tell her from me that her creepy "Eraserhead" like videos are giving me a bad case the heebie jeebies, and NOBODY PUTS THE WILLIES UP ME. I say NOBODY. DO YOU HEAR ME, QUEEN RUBBERTITTY, OR WHATEVER YOU CALL YOURSELF!!!!

HEEEEELLP, IT'S HAPPENING AGAIN.
GERAAAAAALD, QUICK, GET MY MEDICATION, PLEEEEEEEEEASE.......

Golf Queen said...

Golf Queen wants to address Michelle Lawson. Golf Queen doesn't agree with ABA parents who make their kids sit at a table for 40 hours a day. Golf Queen never did that with Golf Queen's son and Golf Queens son is so grateful he shreddeed toilet paper all over the institution Golf Queen put him in. Golf Queen is now going to prove Golf Queen's point by making up a fake article excerpt that Golf Queen will claim is from a real magazine like Scientific American.

Professor Figgity Foo of the Univerisity of Floogle Flop did a study in 2006 involving 30 families of OGF children, studying the effects of ABA on these children after one 40 hour day. Professor Foo noted that after one 40 hour ABA session the OGF chidren were still as fixated on golf as they were the day before.

All hail Golf Queen. Golf Queen just decimated your argument Michelle Lawson. ABA is of no use. Golf Queen can not imagine what those poor OGF children went through during that day of ABA hell. Golf Queen is astounded that there are parents out there who put their children through ABA hell 5 whole days a week, for weeks on end. Golf Queen thinks these parents are lazy and abusive. All they want to do is sit around all day doing ABA and abusing their kid. Golf Queen knows that none of these parents really wants to love, accept or spend time with their kid. They just want the easy fix. Golf Queen is so glad that Golf Queen never wasted time on ABA or any time consuming cures. Golf Queens son is fine the way he is. Golf Queen wonders if the first thing that non-verbal OGF kids say when they learn to talk is, "I hate ABA and I want to eat some more golf balls." Golf Queen is even going to throw a suck on golf balls OGF celebration today.

Still lickin' balls,
Golf Queen

Rachel said...

This post was funny...
BUT I do take issue with a couple of things.

1. My stimming does not interfere with my work, in fact, it aids my concentration.

2. Who is claiming that "everyone who is good at x" is autistic? I've heard speculation that famous composers and scientific figures may have been autistic, but that was based on things like their poor social skills, obsessiveness, speech delays and so forth and not on the fact that they were brilliant at what they did.

Fore Sam said...

Rachel, Lots of people have poor social skills. Anyone who overachieves might seem obsessive. It's the nature of the beast. Neuroinsanity thinks they can enhance their ridiculous arguments by claiming that some famous and intelligent people were autistic to help with their idiotic claim that autism is something to celebrate. It's just propaganda that does absolutely nothing to help any autistic people. Of course, that's neuroinsanity's goal, to prevent autistic people from helping themselves. It's easier for them to achieve this goal if they can make naive people believe this nonsense.

Googlybear said...

Rachel, define stimming. Lots of people twirl their hair, play with their pen, chew their pencil, tap their fingers, doodle..etc.

michelle lawson said...

Hi Golf Queen,
I'm sorry you don't see things my way. I find it very interesting that you resort to decimating my "arguement" with pure fiction? when all the sources I cite are peer-reviewed journal articles with Ivar Loveass and Professor J. Springer in the authorship.

I put it to you that "professor Figgity Foo of the Univerisity of Floogle Flop" were not taken from a "fake article" as you say, but are very real and taken from your very own past!

Professor FIGGETY FOO was in fact YOUR PROFESSOR OF DRAMA at the REAL University of FLOOGLE FLOP located near ITCHYCOO PARK in smalltown FLIBBERTY JIBBERTY, where you spent 30 years studying for your remedial certificate in THE PERFORMING ARTS!!

I put it to you, that it is you who are the only "fake article" in this sorry tale of your 'lost years' at Floogle Flop.
Moreover, I put it to you that that the thirty years it took you to learn how to stim, spin and swing like a classic OGF golfer, are proof enough to state that you are without any doubt, a FRAUD!!!

Your flim-flam isn't fooling anyone.
From now on you'll be known as the freaky fake fraudster from Flibberty Jibberty who failed Professor Figgity Foo, by flopping at Foogle Flop.....

Do you think your OGF son would be proud of you for pretending to be like him, instead of helping him?


Still kickin'ass,
Michelle Lawson

BigTimeSynesthete said...

This will be the last comment I leave here at this incredibly f99ked up blog. I've had enough of it. Bye bye, I know you'll say, "Good ridance!"

Golf Queen said...

Golf Queen can not believe that Michelle Lawson is so bigoted against OGFers like Golf Queen. Golf Queen is sure that Ms. Lawson must hate blacks, Jews, women, dogs and the golfing diverse. Golf Queen can not believe anyone would call Golf Queen a fake. Golf Queen was a poor welfare momma all her life and couldn't even afford golf clubs in those years. Somehow even though Golf Queen suffered from severe and debilitating OGF, Golf Queen was able to raise a kid. Golf Queen is more than qualified to tell everyone how to raise their OGF kid. Golf Queen's degree was not from Floogle Flop, it was from Flim Flam University. Golf Queen graduated top of Golf Queen's class majoring in Anti-Cure Science. Golf Queen learned that the best way to treat people's disabling conditions is not to treat them at all. Do nothing is Golf Queen's moto.

Going with the flow,
Golf Queen

Golf Queen said...

Big Time, Golf Queen is disappointed that you refuse to celebrate the beauty found in all kinds of sporting diversity.

verbaldiarrhea said...

Hi Golf Queen,

"Golf Queen can not believe that Michelle Lawson is so bigoted against OGFers like Golf Queen. Golf Queen is sure that Ms. Lawson must hate blacks, Jews, women, dogs and the golfing diverse."

I feel I must point out that I agree with Michelle on this one. I myself, always endeavour to evince an air of intellectual superiority

"Golf Queen can not believe anyone would call Golf Queen a fake. Golf Queen was a poor welfare momma all her life and couldn't even afford golf clubs in those years. Somehow even though Golf Queen suffered from severe and debilitating OGF, Golf Queen was able to raise a kid."

by employing the methodology of dissecting others comments into a series of "quotes"

"Golf Queen's degree was not from Floogle Flop, it was from Flim Flam University. Golf Queen graduated top of Golf Queen's class majoring in Anti-Cure Science."

in order to appear skilled at countering and debunking my opponents argument piece by piece,

"Golf Queen learned that the best way to treat people's disabling conditions is not to treat them at all. Do nothing is Golf Queen's moto."

with patronizing scrutiny, analytical disputation and officious waffle.

Now. My question to everyone involved in OGF advocacy and debate, would be this;

Does anyone think I'm brilliant?
Yes or No?
It's a simple question.

michelle lawson said...

Hi Golf Queen,

You forgot to mention homosexuality and bestiality!

Joeker said...

Golf Queen is a moron playing pretentiously at pretending to be a pretended Autistic Condition. "I" think she should stop acting like a child.

"I" also think that this is an insult to those who aren't proscribing to ND, or to Mr. Best, and treating Autism like a game.

Insulting the premise of Autism, rather than stand up and take what they dish out, and striking covertly as opposed to overtly, arguing the base of a disorder, rather than the ones with it you disagree with.

"I" think you should get a spine, or something better to do with your time.

Anonymous said...

OMG I have not visited your blog in like 2 months, and it is nice to see you are still going strong. I was hoping for an update on your son, but did not see any. I will keep checking. You need to write a book.

Signed,

Mom who chelated her son who just happens to be "cured" now.

Fore Sam said...

Mom with cured son, Sam keeps making progress. Thanks for stopping by to inspire us. I'll update when all the little things add up to something worth mentioning. If your son takes an interest in golf, let us know.

Joeker said...

Fore and Anon: This is the kind of thing we should see.

Autism being cured, by Chelation.

This is what you should be doing, rather than spend your time insulting other people, even if you feel them deserving of it.

You should spend your time showing that Chelation works, that it cures Autism, and the benfits of Chelation, and how low the risks are, and that parents should seriously consider it.

Not that you've suddenly found a new type of Autism, and must be paid by the health-system to give you golf-equipment and greens fees.

Okay?

Can I see just one post on your blog pertaining to all the good Chelation has done, all the positives, how low-risk it is, and also avoiding the mention of other people who don't support Chelation?
Please?

the informer said...

John, have you seen this from Phil?

And he did invite me to do this as well just for extra laughs!

This was after quoting something from Eugene Bleuler's work (the man who discovered schizophrenia in 1908) and that quote was, "Bleuler is credited with the introduction of two concepts fundamental to the analysis of schizophrenia: autism, denoting the loss of contact with reality, frequently through indulgence in bizarre fantasy, and ambivalence, denoting the coexistence of mutually exclusive contradictions within the psyche."

Remember - this was 1908, when understanding and tolerance wasn't as advanced as it is now. If a doctor from the early 20th century saw Fore Sam's son when he was doing what all LFA's do - he would have said the same thing. The boy had lost contact with reality, indulged in bizarre fantasy.....listen - this was the way doctors thought back then. Anything that wasn't normal frequently got labelled "bizarre" amongst other synonyms. The co-existence side of course is not Autism (that's definitely the schizophrenia we know today) but the rest is EXACTLY why the two got confused!


Your thoughts? I think Phil's clutching at straws. Where's the evidence of this?

Fore Sam said...

Phil(informer), Doctors were smart even in 1908. If autism had existed, they would have known it was something much different from schizophrenia. The two conditions have nothing in common.

Fore Sam said...

Joeker, Sometimes you sound like a rational human being. There is much involved with the evil that is Neurodiversity. There are also plenty of sites where one can interact with others who are experts in chelation.
The main objective of this site is to spread the truth about thimerosal and autism. To accomplish that, it is essential to expose the motives of liars who try to prevent that truth from being learned.
The next time you enjoy a lucid moment, give me a call and perhaps we can discuss your concerns. I'm not about to take advice from some anonymous person who acts like a neuronitwit one minute and like a semi-sane person the next.

a concerned parent said...

Who are these people who try to claim golf is not a disability??????

They are a bunch of high functioning obsessive hockey players who are nothing like my child!!!!!!!! They have probably never met an obsessive golfer on their life. I hope they could go into a school and volunteer with some real young obsessive golfers.

These people have no idea what this is like. Imagine a child who never sleeps. Imagine waking up at 3am to the soft but distinct clink of a put, coming from your child’s room. We had guests over recently and all our child could do was talk about how the stance changes as you move up the irons.

I don’t know what to do anymore. I feel I may have to resort to sarcasm and punditry to help expose the so called golfing-diverse. I know a lot about satire, I watch SNL and Dr. House. I could probably be the Jonathan Swift of golfing satire if I wanted.

I think by my biting wit, I can expose important truths. Like how the other side is essentially self-centered with an inflated sense of importance. I want to compare this to our own unselfishness. AND THE EXPERTS AT THE PGA WOULD KNOW ABOUT THIS IF THEY HAD JUST ASKED US!!!

the informer said...

John we've communicated by email. Why on earth are you calling me Phil suddenly? I don't like him anymore than you do!

Gary

Fore Sam said...

Informer, Phil references your comments while he writes about me on his blog. I have no way to communicate with him.

JediKnight2 said...

LOL!!!! That's a pretty funny analogy you gave, Mr. Best.

While I don't agree with your mercury poisoning theory, I do agree that autism is a disability. Haven't any of these autistic people looked at their psychological documents to see their IQ scores?

Why would they enjoy lacking listening skills, executive functioning and having to work hard every day to fit in this society? Do they really believe society will accomodate them the entire day? Some can't drive and the reason they spend all day online is because they're insecure and know something's terribly wrong with them. Some can't even process information and express themselves fluently. Some can't even cut their own finger nails due to a lack of fine motor skills, and they are immature in some ways. They can't multitask and apply themselves ambitiously. They also seem to enjoy having seizures.

You do at least have common sense. If anyone from neurodiversity would admit or come to terms with themselves, they wouldn't have to spend all their time online every day.

Googlybear said...

JediKnight2,

It really boggles my mind that someone would want to remain disabled. I think they just don't know how to live abled, they can't imagine it. Then they don't get out because the have avoidant "personalities" or they don't have to because they live on disability, so they get overly wrapped up in life online. Which is not reality. Online support groups are hyper focused and outside of the net, you find that most of the world doesn't even know what you are talking about. BigTimeSynthete told me on another blog that Neurodiversity is a very important movement. I don't know anyone in the real world who has even heard of neurodiversity. I don't know anyone who is against curing autism. It's just insanity.

Anonymous said...

GooglyBear said: "It really boggles my mind that someone would want to remain disabled. I think they just don't know how to live abled, they can't imagine it. Then they don't get out because the have avoidant "personalities" or they don't have to because they live on disability, so they get overly wrapped up in life online."

I want to try to answer some of that. First of all, I am not a part of 'neurudiversity' -- especially the Amanda Baggs BS camp end of it, although I do agree with them being against aborting autistic babies, but I am against any aborting of any babies, autistic, Down's, normal, or otherwise.

You need to remember that the people you are hearing that 'want to remain disabled' aren't disabled in the first place. Its real easy to rejoice and romanticize and use something as a tool to have all sorts of 'rightious indignation' online, make it into some sort of BS trendy philosophical or whatever thing. Generally speaking, those people are more full of shit than a New York City sewer. Find a real disabled person or two to talk to, nevermind these people they do more harm and they don't care.

Having said that, I have to ask you:
What good is wanting to be non-disabled going to do for me?
What good does wanting to drive a car or the other number of things I can't do, do for me?
What good is aching for it, its not like that's going to make me able to do it.

There is a big difference between acceptance and rejoicing, and what you are looking at here is exactly yet another part of how those people do disabled people a real diservice, because everybody stops being realistic then. They carry on as they do, and then you get this over reaction that disabled people have no right to be anything other than miserable, no right to being realistic and accepting ourselves, no right to self-esteem.

Let me try this way:
Are you a 7 foot tall Black very athletic basketball player, a famous one? I'm going to take a guess that you are not. Let's say you are not a pro basketball capable 7 foot tall super athlete and there's no way you can be, your body is shaped wrong for it, wrong color, not athletic enough, you're too short, maybe the wrong gender too.

SHOULD you agonize that you cannot possible be a 7 foot tall black athletic pro basketball guy? How dare you if you don't. How dare you be okay with who you are -- this is not to be confused with 'some disability that you have' but as a whole person, who you are, if its not that guy I'm discribing and you have no idea what its like to be that guy, and then maybe you dont' CARE or have interest in what its liek to be that famous tall black athlete, are you terrible for it? No.
Neither am I when I have no idea what its like to be like you or do some of the things you do, but I get along and I am okay as I am, as the person I am.
I don't have to beat myself up for the things I'm not and the things I can't do, and I don't have to glorify anything either, I just have to be me and get along in this world, in that way I am the same as you.

That's reality.

I hope that helps.

JediKnight2 said...

Googlybear,

I'm so glad you see things the way I do.

You know, I'm in the process of learning to move on from these people online since I won't get anywhere by chatting online with them. If they believe autism is not a disability, then why are they online as often as Kip Dynamite from the movie "Napolean Dynamite"? How come they have nothing better to do with their lives? You don't even know what they're really like in reality as individuals.

WrongPlanet.net is lame. Intensity Squared at least has some people full of common sense yet they can be jerks with their stupid puns and jokes.

A lot of people from ND also expect you to be like them or else you're gone. If you don't follow their procedures and opinions, they will cut you off.



The comment you made about ND not being known in the real world had me cracking up. Not even the commander in chief would know about this group.

Anonymous said...

Oh my god. In your attempt at humor you ALMOST get it....

watson said...

Googlybear said...
I don't know anyone in the real world who has even heard of neurodiversity. I don't know anyone who is against curing autism.

Googly, Well, just recently we've started to get neurodiversity articles with links to ND sites in our autism newsletters. :-(

Googlybear said...

Anonymous,

I get what you are saying. If you read through my various posts to John's blog entries, you will see that I have a history of working with real disabled people. You will also read that I think there is a growing trend towards people wanting to be part of a minority because it is trendy and then they can enforce pc talk on people. These people I do not believe are necessarily disabled except they disable themselves. They have decided that they have a diagnosis. Any one of us can introspect long enough and decide we have a diagnosis. I could ruminate on my shortcomings, and decide I have some kind of disorder.

Science though is working very hard to look for cures for various disabling conditions. Christopher Reeves worked very hard until his death to fund research into cures for spinal cord injuries. ND actively fights against finding a cure for autism spectrum disorders. I am not saying that autistics should sit around and long to not be autistic to the point of depression. That is counterproductive to ones life. I am just saying that they are fighting against a cure because they don't know what it means to be abled, so they fight against something they don't understand. How do they know other autistic people wouldn't want what they are rejecting? Besides, most of these people are disabled because they disable themselves. People like Christschool who can't stop babbling about how aspie he is and yadda yadda; yet he seems to have a fine life. I can't understand why he doesn't just live his life like the rest of us do. You focus on the areas you are good at and work around the areas you are not.

As far as aborting autistic or other disabled fetuses. I am against abortion period. So it doesn't really matter to me if the baby is disabled or not. Even if the baby is diagnosed inutero, it is still up to the parents on what to do. There are still Down's syndrome babies and spina bifida babies being born in spite of prenatal diagnosis; because there are always going to be parents who opt against aborting. I think their numbers are just diminished because of the parents who opt for aborting.

Googlybear said...

JediKnight2,

I was reading A. Baggs other blog. The one about autistics being demonized. She was spouting off about the book Strange Son and Portia Iverson. I haven't read the book and don't know anything about Portia, so I have no opinion. Someone named Michael came on and disagreed with her take on Portia and the book. So her comes Kassiane to lecture Michael about how he isn't being positive about autism and how the requirement of being part of Autism Hub is that he has to be positive. I almost died laughing. So if you disagree with another Autism Hub member on any matter, even if done in a respectful way, you don't belong in the Hub? No wonder they are all mindlessly applauding and giving kudos to the ramblings of Autism Diva and the religious attacks of Seidel.

I bet the grocery bagger with Down's Syndrome who talks to my kiddos and me every week has a more satisfying and fulfilling life than any of these twits. Maybe they should ask him what it means to be positive while also haivng a disability.

Anonymous said...

JediKnight2 said...
"...A lot of people from ND also expect you to be like them or else you're gone. If you don't follow their procedures and opinions, they will cut you off."

That's very true. There are other 'autistics' out there and while their own authenticity is questionable, they're probably at very least closer to autistic than Ms Amanda Baggs has or will ever be, yet it seems to be at her discretion that
Sue Rubin seems to be cut off (Sue Rubin 'uses FC' and its questionable whether its her really typing) but she does not sing the praises of autism and doesn't think its so great, so Amanda and company scarsely acknowledge her existence, while 10 year old YouTube boys who FC (with the assistance of their mother) like a rhodes scholar but who are in keeping with the 'in yer face I'm autistic kiss my ass autism is great with autism I come bearing gifts' mentality.

Thomas McKean (who has written books, produced musical CDs, plays guitar and sings, performs/ed 'on the circuit) and also seems pretty 'iffy' as an autistic person, has at least suggested that validity checks and diagnostic backgrounds be done on people before they go to these conferences etc, which meritted him a snotty rebuttal letter on Amanda/Luara Tconsik's 'autistics.org' and instant status as persona non grata, never to be mentioned again.

There's a rogue 'autistic' out there named Dean Walker aka 'vohuhes' who's probably schizophrenic like Amanda, but at least he's closer to autistic than she is, and he doesn't play well with others, they're sure not referencing or including Dean Walker and his rather unique perspectives on things.

Nobody seems to even be asking Kim Peak (orignal 'rainman' and person that movie was based on) or "Tito" the son of Soma, the woman who's selling the 'rapid prompting method' of teaching autistics.

Temple Grandin made a remark distinquishing LFA from HFA that offended Neurodiversity so she's in the "ENA" (existance Not Acknowledged") bin as well.

There's othrs, there are plenty others. There are people on YouTube who are obviously disabled, one "Autistic actor/puppeteer" authors, etcetc just people etc., evidently autistic and all going un-noticed whatsoever.

You've got to be capable (and wiling) to play the game if you want neurodiversity to have any use for you.

Being identified as autistic and then finding oneself 'cut off' from Neurodiversity ironically to this anonymous poster goes further towards considering the authenticity of the cut off person in question.

Googlybear said...

Anonymous Poster,

Good points all around. I have noticed though that ND will bring up Tito when they want rustle up sympathy. They use him as an example of an autistic person used and abused by Portia Iverson. Then they pretty much ignore any comments he makes on blogs and such. I also noticed that someone wrote that Portia was diagnosed Aspergers, but ND pretty much ignores that because they don't like her book Strange Son. Temple Grandin seems to be brought up when they need an example of an autistic person who is successful and that is about it.

They really only seem to want very HFA autistics, bullies who make claims of being LFA and mindless parents who just spout off philosophical pc niceties about how autism is their greatest teacher. Apparently if I was to post "look at the autie" videos of my kid on a trampoline or a slide show set to inspirational music, then I would be one of the "good guy". But since I give my kid cod liver oil and probiotics, I am an abuser worthy of having my kid taken away. They are so far out on left base.

Anonymous said...

"I think there is a growing trend towards people wanting to be part of a minority because it is trendy and then they can enforce pc talk on people".... Googly

There sure are and they drive me nuts! While I acknowledge that LF autism is a far more serious condition than Asperger's I also know Asperger's is hell to live with both for the family and the individual. I'm sick of the idiots who 'do not get all the jokes,' or 'dislike flourescent lights' (don't we all!) claiming they are all autistic. These people give others the impression that autism/asperger's is not the serious disorder that it is.

Why does everybody want to be part of a special group?

I wish someone would locate the family of Ms Baggs, who according to her are all autistic like her, and really 'get the truth out.' That woman belongs in the stocks in a public square along with her non-autistic and very unattravtive girlfriend,

BTW, Amanda said on one of her blogs a while back that she was considering having a child at some point. Would someone call the cops please!

Fore Sam said...

If amanda wants to have a baby, how many beers will she have to pour into some poor guy to get him into bed?

Anonymous said...

Maybe she was thinking of Laura T, a turkey baster and a donation from Christcool.

The shallow end of the gene pool.

Joeker said...

Okay, Fore, I don't like her, but still, that's getting out of line.

I'm sick of your unwarranted insults against people who aren't here to defend themselves. If you can't act like a civilised human being, I see no reason to treat you as such.

I am so glad I have never met you in person.

Anonymous said...

Fore Sam said...
"If amanda wants to have a baby, how many beers will she have to pour into some poor guy to get him into bed?"

None. She can just go 'advocate' for an LFA male alone for an afternoon at any nearby institution, since, based on her behavior towards actual autistics, it would seem Amanda's idea of 'advocating' for them holds little distinction from advantagious molestation.

Look at her track record.
How many autistics has she *claimed* to help, specifically?
How many has she *actually* helped?
Can we name a few?

by contrast, how many, specifically, has she hurt?
We can name a few.

When you don't have to raise the kid and when it has potential to be another tool to be used as part of your political agenda, why not?

It doesn't matter if the kid is NT or what it is, Amanda will claim its autistic as suits her, and will only require the gathering of that many more 'staff' she'd take on.

That's another question: How much more can Burlington VT afford to have its services designed for the developmentally disabled sapped dry by her?

I wonder how much they (who are not accustomed to dealing with gifted IQ'd mega-manipulative munchusen sorts) can take. Every state is poor right now. Amanda's discovered that services for the DD tend to be better/fuller than those for the mentally ill. I really feel for that county and its developmentally disabled inhabitants and its service providers, what a mess this has got to be for them.

Offtopic side thought: I wonder what she's *really* on social security disability for. If she's been on it since her porch-front-sitting days as a 19 year old at her first apartment, I'll bet she's not on disability for autism.

Back to the concept of Amanda's childrearing:

Too lazy to bring a spoon to her own mouth but ever ready to attack her 'staff' (I've seen comments from her former 'employees') on YouTube that would indicate Amanda regularly delights in power-struggles and obnoxious willful 'tantrums' typical of a grandiose paranoid schizo who thinks they're a God, getting physical and getting nasty for her personal entertainment), but hey, physically she can bare a child, doesn't matter if its just more fodder for her agenda and the state to care for, oh yeah that'd be real good.

I don't know of any LFA's who are even interested in bearing children, Amanda had better be careful, based on this and her latest comments to the effect of "I've discovered how to be social' or whatever, she might be 'normalling up' here and gosh that won't do for attentionseeking or neurodiversity now will it?

Wondering too if she's got her family terrorized. I would seriously imagine they're so happy to be rid of her, to have her across country and far from them at last that they may well be doing 'whatever you say Amanda, whatever makes you happy' at phone contacts, etc, would be interesting to know though.

JediKnight2 said...

The anonymous poster who stated the analogy of wanting to be a black basketball player did make a good point.

While I already understood that, I didn't mean to come off as being insensitive. It's just that I'm frustrated with ND.

No one understands that as I've grown up, that I've always wanted to have the mentality that my brain just works a little differently, but nobody seems to give me the chance because I'll make a mistake due to my disability.

I always felt misunderstood by my brother, and my parents are always talking and nagging about whatever pops up in their head. I hate it when I'm accused of talking to myself in my room by my father and it seems like I can't win an argument because no one else remembers the details I remember. Also, I'm not always right but that's because I have slow processing speed and don't generalize things I hear quickly. It's gotten to the point where I've compensated for myself and become nice about everything due to fearing I'll be wrong, even if I'm right.

The thing about ND is that I believe they feel the same way so that's why they behave the way they do.

Googlybear, the stuff you said about the people from ND shows they are insecure and won't admit the true feelings I'm expressing on here. They seem to think that I should be the straight-A student who's majoring in mathematics who won't try to be that person. They also believe I'm exactly like them.

What's wrong with a cure once it does come out? I mean for now I have to just be content to be myself. How does curing myself kill me? It's supposed to fix my processing problems! DUH!!! How does it influence some crazy parents to kill their autistic children. It's because they are insane, ignorant and devastated to not receive a child as high functioning as me or to have a neurotypical child.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, If she tried to molest a low functioning male, she'd still need lots of liquor, a paper bag and an overdose of viagra.

Joker, Anyone who I insult is welcome to defend themselves.

Joeker said...

Fore: But are they welcome to be aware of it? It's quite easy to not garner responses, and it's also pretty easy to make sure they don't get through if they come.

Sure, they're welcome to defend themselves, but it's not justifiable if they have no idea it's going on.

I like to think of it as "behind the back" since she's obviously not aware of it.

Jedi: I've gotta say, the only reason that comes to mind why I'm against the "cure" is that Fore was for it. He says he's got the cure. He also wanted to make it clear I should be forced to take it, and that all Autistics should be rounded up by the government, and have it administered, free will be damned.

Open: Come to think of it, I started out plain unimpressed with both HA and ND, but now I'm bored of talking about ND, and sickened by HA.

Way to go, what with the molestation, liquor, turkey basters, viagra, and paper bags.
Way to fight for the rights of Autistics.

Fore Sam said...

Joker, If this site sickens you, why don't you go to some ND blogs and bug them?

Googlybear said...

BTW, Amanda said on one of her blogs a while back that she was considering having a child at some point.

The last thing someone with Munchausen syndrome needs is a child, because she would likely transfer her disease onto the child via Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy. Parents with the Proxy form do all kinds of wretched things to their child, to make the child ill so they can get attention from medical professionals via their child.

My mother was schizophrenic. I can't say it was the safest childhood. I lucked out because my father kept us away from her when the voices were talking or I would probably be dead.

Anonymous said...

Joeker if by 'she' you are referring to Amanda Baggs, what makes you think she (and her cult-folllowing) aren't aware of and reading here?

They've already taken time to reply before, even referenced this site specifically when they opted to use the legal system to further their bullying and exploitation of an autistic woman -- "way to fight for the rights of autistics" -- and you want to compare this to a few off-color jokes?

Joeker said...

Because they only make me shake my head. You, on the other hand, make me want to speak. You make me want to stand and protest. You keep drawing me back, trying to figure out just how your motives and actions are working, because they sure don't seem to be in sync.

Plus, ND won't give up their ideas on making us a distinct society. It didn't work for Quebec, it likely won't work for Autistics.

Plus, I kind of like meeting new people here. I dislike when they start attacking or insulting me, but nonetheless, I happen to enjoy speaking with those who don't share my point of view. It'd be pretty boring, and a waste of time, standing around chatting about whatever. Here, I get to tackle such issues as bullying, bad-taste satires, censorship, and I have to say, I just love to play golf.

So... how goes the organization of like-minded parents, to put an end to new cases of Autism, by having Thimerosal replaced with safe alternatives?

Googlybear said...

JediKnight,

I didn't realize you were on the spectrum. I know it is hard for people on the spectrum to admit there is a problem. It isn't easy for anyone to admit they have a weakness or a problem or need help. I don't believe a "cure" takes away the person's self. The self will evolve as the mind heals. The people that are recovering or partially recovering from autism take years to get there. If you are curious, you may want to look into a few of the DAN! based books like Children with Starving Brains by Dr. McCandless or Healing the 4-A Disorders by Dr. Bock. You may find some ideas in there for helping your specific issues.

Fore Sam said...

Joker, I think gasoline might be a safe alternative to thimerosal. Check with Autism Diva and see if we can test it on her, will you.

Anonymous said...

Hey Joeker, y'know that dumpster/nearly trash-compacted to death experience you told us you had when you were about 10 years old?

How do you like the idea that we prop somebody else up to tell that same exact story, as if its theirs, along with any other good and 'juicy' parts of your life, and we do it without your permission, and we do it for years before you even discover its happening, then lets have our cartoon distortion of you take your story to nationwide media, using you and your personal anguish and accomplishments alike everything that's formed and shaped you, its ours now, we're using it for our own political agenda, and when you finally do discover this is going on and if you protest or object in any way whatsoever, we will only up the ante, find means to threaten and terrify and silence your sorry ass with a big loud message for you that goes something very much like this:

"We're 'advocating' for you and 'people like you' and this is how we do it whether you like or or not, you have no say so, SCREW YOU."

With 'advocates' like this, who needs...well... enemies?

but,
you know what?
Skip it, Joeker. For a guy who's been bullied because he's 'different' and been at a disadvantage, you sure manage to completely miss the concept when observing its being done to others.

Just like the human-shaped dumpster rats that nearly did you in,
Amanda Baggs deserves far worse than the few random remarks she gets here, and I can't see you b***hing that she gets even this much.

Joeker, I concur with Fore Sam:

Don't go away mad, just go away.

and yeah, you heard that from someone 'on the spectrum'

Googlybear said...

Joeker,

Don't worry about ND members, this is one of the places they frequently lurk so they can quote mine. How do you think you found a page of John Best quotes? ND also does underhanded things like lie their way onto closed biomed forums so they can steal quotes out of context that are said, publish them on their blogs and blow them out of proportion. I ran across a real nice post somewhere, where they had posted a bunch of stuff being said on Evidence of Harm group to one of their blogs. They started it off with, this is how EOH parents speak to autistic adults. What they didn't put on was what was said on the group by the 'autistic adult' (read ND person) to set the group members off.

I know you think that everyone here is going on too much about ND and such, but why do you care one way or another? I found this site amusing and refreshing after slogging my way through a bunch of ND blogs. When I get time, I am going to go quote mining from the ND blogs.

Anonymous said...

Googlybear said...
"The last thing someone with Munchausen syndrome needs is a child, because she would likely transfer her disease onto the child via Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy."

Amanda already displays a pattern that seems to go something like this, (with some variations of course):

blog/blog/ER/ER/blog/conference/name-dropping event/blog/blog/ER/ER/blog

(blogs following ER/Emergency room visits are often about the ER visits, which allows you to observe this pattern).

She and her buddy Laura T seem to do a sort of hand-off on who's turn it is to be sick/have the drama "my friend was chased from the ER at gunpoint when she couldn't walk' etc...

My sister is a nurse, nursing school straight out of high school, in her 40's now, an RN who's had her share of experiences in every part of the hospital in a major metropolitan area, been in ER, trauma, etc. settled into cardialogy (with the crash carts and heart patients)... I showed her about Amanda Baggs and she instantly picked up on what kind of patient this is..

Also I myself have various medical oddities, some requiring that I travel over 100 miles to a reknowned research university, and I live not 60 feet from a trauma 1 level hospital and I can't say the ambulance visits here, or that the entire of this apartment complex collectively, all over 200 of them, let alone one one indivual from here, visit that hospital across the street as much as Ms Baggs and her pal seem to.

We have security door cams and we're elderly and disabled here, if somebody goes over there, the whole building pretty knows about it.

As a whole -- and we do have some seriously ill people here -- Amanda singlehandedly beats out this whole entire building with her medical sagas.
I'm serious.

A woman lives here who's a retired RN who has deadly Asthma, takes predisone, has 'avascular necrosis' from years of it, the 'whole 9 yards' and has her battles as an ex-medical-professional herself, I showed HER this fiasco, and she made sickened by it, she articulated a variety of sorts of 'seeker' this type of person is as well, and how they make it hard for those with genuine sitations..
once again, nice going, Amanda...

Just how many kinds of selfish can you be anyway?

Yeah I could definately see a little trio pattern forming of "who's turn is it, mine, Laura, or the baby" and it being very, very, bad.

Fore Sam said...

What kind of example will two 400 pound lesbians set for a child? I can see that kid running away from home at a very young age. Imagine having friends over and having to explain what a double-dong is.

Fore Sam said...

Joeker, Seidel has even managed to attack parents who help their kids in the newspaper. Anyone who helps an autistic person is fair game for this nitwit. Fortunately, I caught one of her newspaper attacks and put her in her place with a letter to the editor. You think your comments disappear here? Try criticizing Seidel and see if she'll discuss it with you.

Googlybear said...

Anon,

I've worked with people like the one you are discussing. They are the type who would beat up a staff member because they know the facility is a hands off (ie: no restraint) place. The last time I worked in the developmental disability field, the state I was in was cleaning out the remaining denizens from the institutions. So we were getting the ones who were too violent to place before and now were being forced into community placement. Most were dev disabled with a dual diagnosis of some kind of mental illness- or more likely they were primarily mentally ill but it had started so young it stunted their emotional, social, intellectual and psychological growth. Before this happened, I was running a wonderful day program and "moonlighting" in some of the group homes for extra money. I soon learned that this new group was not at all like my current group. They knew how to manipulate staff. They knew how much physical violence and threats of harm they could get away with. I had to watch as some of my gentle friends who were peacefully living in a nice home, had their lives turn into a lockdown ward, where they would lock themselves in the kitchen or bedrooms to get away from the violent attacks of one new resident. I watched as good staff after good staff left because they got tired of being punched in the face or stomach, or attacked in public. I had one woman lock herself in my office and throw every item she could through the window, then when we finally talked her out, she assaulted me (I still have scars on my arm years later), ran up the street to a dental office and told them I was assaulting her. After all this, she sat there calmly waiting for her group home staff to come get her. I knew then and there, she was calculating her every move and was using her "disability" to manipulate everyone and get out of trouble. I finally had enough abuse when one of the day program denizens grabbed me by the underarm, pushed me up against the wall and said, "I don't have to do anything you say, I could rape you right now and nobody would do anything about it." I had already had to take one of the other guys to the hospital the week before after he beat him senseless with a metal chair. I quit the next day. I'd been hit before, when I managed a group home for LF adults. But those hits were different, they were not for manipulation or meanness. They were usually because they were frustrated or not feeling well. We could work it out or I could see it coming and know it was time to switch gears. Dealing with the "mentally ill" was a whole different ball of wax. They could go from calm to crazy and back again in a matter of seconds. They could manipulate the system. There is a knowing, a savvy on how much they can get away with. I can spot those people a mile away. I can even spot them on the internet. I have no doubt as to what kind of person, the person you are discussing is.

Anonymous said...

Friends?

oh come on now, Fore Sam, use your head!
You don't really think those two would let any child of their's have any friends outside of online neurodiversity ones, do you?

No, that kid (if it manages to survive to term, between Amanda's heavily gnarfed up LSD-genetics and many "nearly miscarried' events (and/or whatever other dramas concocted during its term), if the kid manages to come equipped with any sort of normal intelligence or ability, those two are sure to knock that right out of it, I can see it now, smacking the hell out of it "you type, not speak!"

Amanda will eagerly await the child's developing to the toilet training age (to be performed by 'staff' of course as is anything productive that child ever receives is only ever going to come from them) so that Amanda can have her own little 24/7 captive servant to change HER diapers, spoon feed HER food (and have it learn to dodge when Amanda gets bored, feels she's not getting *just the right amount and type of attention* from her child, chucks the plate of food and attempts to hit the child with it), oh I can see it all now.


I wondered at Amanda's sudden 'getting higher functioning' lately...

I had hoped maybe the 'thrill of autism' had finaly finaly started to wear off and/or the consequences of her actions, playing this wicked deception so daringly and publically may have had an effect as she seemed to wander from autism in a sudden bout of 'oh gee I'm feeling muuuuch better now!" to a bit more focus on the medical realm and 'tourettes' etc...

...and I do hope its not in preparation for a thing like a pregnancy, seriously, the odds that child would be up against, the tormented life that child would have to lead..
That's just scary.

Joeker said...

Fore: I'd rather put it in my gas tank. The prices these days... Outrageous. And my Government is reneging on an election promise with a waggling tounge and an erect finger. Can you guess which one? Yup. So much for Conservative accountability.

Anon: You see, the whole thing works only to the point where I'm terrified into silence. This is when I contact the police, and have these jokers arrested. It's called legal rights. I'd be pissed, I'd be mad, and I'd take my life-story back! But, I'd also consider this;

Coincidence. Am I the only person to ever, in all the world, have this happen to me? I'd find similarities, but I don't think I'd believe they took my story, because, in case you hadn't noticed, there's quite a few sad stories, from those who care to relate them.

I can understand her being reviled and ridiculed for what she's done, or is doing, and I can even applaud her being revealed to the public, but I feel it's undeserved to insult someone for the sake of simply not liking them.

Insult her for what she's done, not over her breeding habits.

She's a thief, yes, a bully, sure, and whatever she deserves, but so far, I have yet to find anything to do with her sex life, and feel that something private/unknown shouldn't be used as ammo. Doesn't she give you enough already?

And, to also concur with Fore:
"Since you are one of them hiding in anonymity, you also deserve no respect."

Gotta say, my life is an open book for Fore, should he want it to be. No hiding for me.

So, Anon, you just heard that from someone who's not hiding in anonymity. Cheers, and good luck on your spinal growth. Perhaps one day you'll be able to take my words standing up, rather than crawling about out of sight.

And yes, you heard that from someone on the Spectrum.

Fore Sam said...

I didn't know Amanda was becoming higher functioning. Maybe she's going to have one of those spontaneous cures so Neurodiversity can take credit for it. No, that can't be it, they'd throw her out of the cult if she were cured. Maybe she has to appear high functioning to make a withdrawal at the sperm bank.

Anonymous said...

Googlybear said...

"Anon,

I've worked with people like the one you are discussing. [...]"

I've lived with them.
Thank you for knowing this.


Joeker, start using your head for something other than a hatrack.
Think about the situation, I doubt you'd have even as much 'spine' as is already involved here, no at 10 you were Mr BillyJack, and you're Mr HandlesAllBulliesNow.. -- or so you think -- until this happens to you -- good for you, though, live in your fantasy world until or unless somebody decides you're next, then you can model for all exactly under these circumstances (since you talk about things you don't know about), how to get defend yourself, how to deal with it.

You'd have a lot less spine if it were you, trust me, and you're starting to look about as 'on the spectrum' as I look like that 7 foot tall Black Pro basketball player (a hint: I don't look like him at all).

So its zero respect for you, Mr talking trash toughguy 'online nickname so I'm badass' Joeker.

Stick to what you know (hint #2: This isn't it).

Anonymous said...

I too have noticed from reading her blog that of late Amanda has been saying more and more 'that this, that. or the other' is not because she is autistic, but due to something else. She claims to use a wheelchair, not because she cannot walk, but because her she cannot concentrate to balance while walking. Yet as a kid she claims she could climb trees and walk for miles through the bush.

She has claimed to have Tourettes as well.

I think she is getting very bored playing a LF autistic and is planning to re-invent herself into a speaking, walking something or other so she can move on to the next phase. It will have to involve illness so that she can keep collecting those cheques.

She should finish each blog with To Be Continued....

Anonymous said...

Okay, let's try this:

Joeker, you don't like people mentioning Amanda Bagg's sexuality?

Tough.
Too Bad.
.


Or, maybe you don't like it because its somebody NOT talking about YOUR sexuality?

Hey, Joeker, why don't you go have a date with Amanda Baggs, bet you two would hit it right off, a perfect pair, and then you can tell us how many beers you had to drink first before 'and baby makes 3'.
If Amanda sits on you lets see how much 'spine' you have after.

Better?

JediKnight2 said...

I'm just saying if a cure were to come out, I'd most likely consider it. However, I don't think it's right to force it on anyone. I also don't believe mercury poisoning is the cause, though removing the toxins from some individuals on the spectrum can improve their behavior.

It's genetic. My mother has some OCD tendencies; my brother is labeled as being gifted (but he dislikes the label which I can understand); my father has a slight speech impediment, and I have a couple other family members (not in my house) with learning disabilities and mental illnesses. There are some people who find out they have Asperger's as soon as their children are diagnosed on the spectrum, and many ASD individuals are known to have some family members with other diagnosis.

I have HFA (PDD-NOS) BTW. I have to work harder in school than most people. The college disabilities office has been a huge help and I'm on my way to graduating with a B.A. in criminal justice within the next year. However, I still don't know what career I want to pursue and I'm thinking of graduate school. Grad school, of course, is tough but in some ways if I'm going to study an area I know I'm good at or enjoy passionately and study my courses for over 2 years with the disabilities office services, then it's actually better than undergrad school.

With most bachelor's degrees today with the exception of majors in science, education, business, engineering and nursing, it's hard to get employed. I had problems picking a major due to my autism. I've withdrawn from plenty of classes and have taken some at the community college which I've found to be waaay easier! Majors in the Arts and Humanities like sociology, English and History are dull and tough for me since it requires abstract thinking and reasoning as well as reading and writing MLA papers about sociological, historical and analyzing literature readings at the junior and senior levels.

I'm going to admit that the reason I'm making it through my major is because all the classes I've completed so far contain open-note/open-book exams. There is only one class I've taken that didn't have that, and that was last summer at a different school campus since the professors at my main campus for that course were tough. The guy I had wasn't so easy but much better than if I were to have to take it at my main campus. I earned a C in that course. The rest I've earned A's and one B. I use ratemyprofessors.com to help me pick my classes and professors out.

Now that is some great evidence to prove how tough my challenges are!

Anonymous said...

Fore Sam said...

"I didn't know Amanda was becoming higher functioning."

Not greatly (we ARE talking abut Amanda Baggs after all), given that she's set herself up as the oldest/biggest living human infant, making a career out of 'helplessness'..

Its just
little things like her baking quasi complex dessert sweets, etc., something noteworthy in that it also distinquishes her from say.. maybe any autistics Amanda seems to be trying to appear 'worse off than' or to 'out autistic' or whatever, maybe there's someone who doesn't even use a stove/oven, having them shut off at the breakerbox and relying on cold/raw/microwavable food instead..

Are these signs Amanda begrudgingly moving forward, admitting in any small degree to possibly NOT being THE utmost severely off/incapable-in-every way person in the world, what with her little act of baking things, something that other person actually isn't capable of doing?

Amanda's latest post seemed to suggest maybe a new trend, its awfully optimistic to hope for, but maybe it was the start of "hey folks, I'm not really autistic, I'm just really misunderstood! I'm social, lookit me!' but having remarked on it here and Amanda's oppositional tendencies, we can probably expect to see a reversal on that one..

"Maybe she has to appear high functioning to make a withdrawal at the sperm bank."

Yes, that'd be the motive.
Amanda's going to have to forfeit at least some degree, no matter how minute, of her own overgrown infant status in order to have one (an infant, that is).

Amanda will have to be able to pose for photos and YouTube movies, clutching her baby like its a teddybear toy, and one of them is going to have to resolve not to scream in the middle of the night for their 3am feeding...

Update: Now we're moving onto “autistic catatonia” it seems...
This it would seem is 'when autistics become nuts due to psychotropics (shhh don't anybody tell her we've noticed she's got this entirely out of order in her story) because interestingly enough.. it would seem this is curable, reversable!

Way to go Amanda (seriously), maybe this is your graceful outlet afterall and you can get your “autistic catatonia” all patched up and revert to .. an elf god or ... whatever/whichever pre-LFA state you want to be there... AND have a baby without having to battle over who gets to BE the baby (perk, eh?)

I don't know about anyone else but I'd be the first one to allow for this 'graceful exit' if she takes it (and pity the next disability group she latches onto but awful as it is I'm desprately looking to our own and so glad to be rid of her if we ever are that I won't press the issue!)

I hope its not preemptive (but it probably is) to be the first to say:

Best of luck in your endeavors with this, Amanda, and here's to your continued improvements, Here's hoping that you'll stay with it (and out of our collective hair) and get that “autistic catatonia” licked, forthrightly!

Fore Sam said...

Anon, Since the last "Amanda" entry has slipped off th first page of the blog, I think I'll write another one so we can cover the situation properly.

Googlybear said...

JediKnight,

Your family sounds alot like mine. Or I should say my children's, since it is the combined combo of my family and issues along with my husband's family and issues. My husband and I were told by an autism specialist who was treating my dd that we are both "on the spectrum" which doesn't mean either of us are Aspie or PDD, it just means we both have spectrum issues. I don't consider myself to be on the spectrum, but it isn't a shock that I had an aspie kid. If you take my issues, amplify them and then throw in some of hubby's issues, you have my ASD dd. I don't want this mistaken though, because I feel it is an insult to those firmly on the spectrum, I am not Aspie, Autie or PDD, I just recognize the familial tendencies.

That said, I think there is a cluster of genetic weaknesses that conspire to cause autism. When enough of those weaknesses are present in a person and are triggered by environmental assaults, you get autism. The severity depends on how much genetic weakness combined with how much environmental assault. That's my opinion from doing the reading I have done. Through treating some of my dd's issues, my husband and I are learning how to manage take care of our own issues and the few that our "NT" children have also. I haven't done anything for myself more drastic than food allergy testing and dietary elimination and it has helped. People tend to think biomed is all chelation, but alot of it is balancing immune function, correcting nutritional dysfunction, healing the gut, taking care of allergies and chronic inflammation, enhancing the bodies natural detoxification systems, boosting mitochondrial function if it is impaired, and helping the body rid itself of pathogens like viruses, yeasts and bad bacteria. We were treating my daughter for some of these issues mainly just because of what I knew of natural medicine before we even learned about chelation. Chelation in and of itself is not a cure for everyone, for some yes. Others need other things. Some kids have recovered significantly just through diet or just through immune system regulation. Some people will never be off the spectrum, but that doesn't mean there can't be some management of symptoms. For instance would someone think it is wrong for an adult with ADD to use natural supplements to help his attention span? Of course not. So why do some, like ND, suddenly think it erases the personhood of an autistic person when they do the same to help their ADD issues?

Googlybear said...

Anon,

Don't worry too much, there is the department of child and family to take care of children from people like Amanda who can't care properly for a baby.

My guess is that she will spontaneously improve into an online Aspie, most of which are pretty much indistinguishable from the rest of society. Then ND can claim that they don't ignore LFA people, it is just that they all spontaneously recover or improve if left to their own devices. She will be the poster child for anti-cure, pro-spontaneous recovery.

Once she gets bored or her Munchausen moves on to something else that will get her a fresh, new audience; we will likely see the last of her. I think she will either move on to obesity awareness or whatever. Hopefully that won't include awareness fat is beautiful naked photos. Or she will move on to the next sympathy diagnosis. I once said that she would try to claim she has Down's syndrome, but frankly she is too mean to be a person with Down's syndrome.

Anonymous said...

Maybe Amanda is planning to lapse into a complete state of catatonia for, say a month, then emerge fully functional again and put the miracle down to some amazing 'brain surge' or something.

In one blog, or maybe is was on Getting The Truth Out, she said she had the buzz cut because she tended to pull out her hair and the str\aff at some insitution or other decided shave her head as an antidote.

You know, I'm against the oppression of women, being one myself, but if ever a woman belonged in a burqua it is Amanda Baggs.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said:
"In one blog, or maybe is was on Getting The Truth Out, she said she had the buzz cut because she tended to pull out her hair and the str\aff at some insitution or other decided shave her head as an antidote."

Yeah, Amanda's said a lot of things.

In fact I'm still trying to figure out when there were breaks enough from her steady online writing which starts when she was about 14 as I can tell and spans over 2/3rds of her life, all those newsgroup postings over all those years, the dates she posted them almost read straight on like a calender, them moving on directly to her blog activity...

When the hell did she ever shut up long enough to even be institutionalized like she claims?

...And didn't Droopy keep especially short hair, and talk about having issues with this?
Didn't she have a little YouTube movie about this?

I'm sure that's what I saw.

I also also saw a movie about a childhood institution droopy was in.

I can't find them now, but I know what I saw.

I can think of a few other things Amanda 'belongs in,' probably most of them unfit to print.

Anyway..
Cure up, Amanda...

Its interesting that with this she's actually inadvertantly on the side of biomed people, indicating "Evil Pharma"... its probably only another diversionary tactic designed to confuse and distract,
still,
would be nice for all if Amanda suddenly "got better" and I don't care how why or for what reason she chooses.

She's caused enough upset to enough people to last several lifetimes, and now ironically people have to 'wish her well' just so she'll stop..

Gandhi should have done this well.

Anonymous said...

Fore Sam said...
Doctors were smart even in 1908.


LOL! Real smart. "Yes everyone, bloodletting will cure you!"
http://www.library.ucla.edu/biomed/his/blood/index.html

Yeah, OK. Real smart foresam.
"let's just drill into your brain and cure you"
1949 - Dr. Egaz Moniz wins Nobel prize for his work on psychosurgery / labotomy.

So what is it Best? Are they smart? or are they poisoning our children?
No, you're not TOO hypocritical. LOL!

Anonymous said...

My guess is that Amanda is "curing up", or acting differently because she's been advised by a certain lawyer to play down her acting like/copying the life of a certain autistic lady, in preparation for the chance that she may be taken to court in the near future.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, A lobotomy would probably be good for you. I'm not hypocritical, you are. You talk about mistakes of old yet you fail to recognize the mistake of poisoning babies with mercury. You're probably one of those morons who thinks wrestling is real.

Anonymous said...

You hate being shown the idiocy of your statements don't you?

Anonymous said...

Fore Sam said...
Doctors were smart even in 1908.


It was YOUR comment Fore Sam, get it straight.

Anonymous said...

What?!?

wrestling not real??
SAY IT AINT SO!!

But I have OWWWFF (Obsessive World Wide Wrestling Federation Fixation)!!

Now I'm gonna have to have COWWFF (Catatonic Obsessive World Wide Wrestling Federation Fixation)??

WHY can't we all just get along...Goddammnit!

Anonymous said...

Fortunately, I caught one of her newspaper attacks and put her in her place with a letter to the editor.

Got a link for it? And your response if it made it?

Joeker said...

Alright, first Anon. Wanna play rough? I'm game.

People change. I change too. I'm not who I was at Ten, are you? I think eight years is quite a period of change, from ten.

It's called "rights." I know mine. No court could fairly call my opponent over my life story, and their taking of it, to be legal. I've got my rights, and I'm going to use the things, not sit them on the mantle to admire every now and then.

Not appearing to be of the spectrum? Have you any idea of how long I've worked at being able to hide that fact? It's hard for someone to treat you normally if they think you're Rainman.

I'm not the one hiding in anonymity. Compared to you, I'm an open book! Not to mention I'm not huddled in a corner, too scared to let anyone know even basic details of who I am, like gender, age, and even name.

Sorry, but I think that you're not exactly acting in a rational manner. Calm down before talking to me again.

Third Anon(from my post), just... Seriously, WTF.

I don't like people inventing things with no bearing on reality, plain and simple. Where do ou find all this info on Bagg's sex life? More importantly, why are you looking?

I'm afraid I don't quite get why you think I'm interested in chatting about my sexuality. It's highly personal and private, eh?

First, I don't know her, two, I'm not interested in a relationship now, third, I'm too young to drink, fourth, I don't want a child, either, and fifth, I'm not going to leave Canada, to simply hook up with someone.

By the by, I don't think Droopy was sat upon, but simply threatened with illicit legal action.

Oh, and fat jokes are pretty old.

Jedi: I can appreciate that point of view. I concur with the family history, there are incidences within my entire family(including cousins, uncles/aunts, and others) of alike things, including dyslexia, and several other things.

As for school... Well, I gotta say, it's tough, unless I love the course. The quieter it is, the better I do, and I love the use of spare blocks to catch up on work.
I hate homework, unless I like the course... a lot.

Fore: No assumptions! Remember what happened last time? As I recall, I spent a lot of time setting people straight on me, reversing what you told them I was, and then I had to argue with someone who felt I was saying the stuff I was in a pity-play, which led to a major argument.
I can't recall who it was with, though...

Still defending myself from cowards,
~Joeker

Yosmite Sam said...

Joeker said...

"Still defending myself from cowards,
~Joeker"

Translation for the rest of us:

"Still looking for fights like a borderline personality scanning for targets in a state hospital dayroom ."

Your over reacting and over-acting at pretending to miss the point/observe jokes gives you away.

Even Dustin Hoffman had more subtlety.
You'd love it if you were ever compared to confused with or treated like 'Rainman' -- and you know it.

Now, On behalf of all who HAVE endured such things -- and most of all, for those who still do -- shut the fuck up and sit down, boy.

Just because you're too stupid to know when to be embarrassed doesn't excuse you OR equate autism.

Assuming aging will have any benefits for you, I'd love to see you in ten years when somebody could point out and remind you of your current obnoxious idiocy, just to make you wince.

However people seldom ever interact with asshats like you any longer than they have to, so the likelihood of anyone's putting up with you long enough do so is highly unlikely.

Obnoxious mouthy punkass deluded 18 year old with a characterisitc 18 year old's dumbassed fat mouth?
Yes.

Autistic?
Not in your life, ever, not even in your dreams.

"Go away boy, ya bother me" -- Yosmite Sam
(as said to any number of other silly little cartoons)

Anonymous said...

Uhm,
how is it you were/are 'defending yourself" against anuything when first you stepped into a conversation (to complain) that initially wasn't directed at or inclusive of you to begin with?

The only comments I've seen you make here that are remotely non-combative seem to be directed to JediKnight2

Everything else seems to be b***hing, frankly.

Why don't you go join the Marines, Joeker? I hear they're considering allowing 18 year old Marines to drink beer (there's just this little detail called Iraq but I'm sure you can swing it no problem),

Then that way you get your chances to both fight AND to tank up before your big night out with Amanda.

Are you planning on taking her to the prom first?

Joeker said...

Yosmite: Congratulations on insulting an 18 year old. Do you feel proud of all you've achieved?
Should I speak to my doctor and have a printout made up to scan for you? No, you'll assume I'm faking it, like you assume I'm not Autistic. Say what you want, it won't change fact.

Anon: Sorry, I don't find Autism too satirical.

Wrong Country, wrong military, and wrong war. Not to mention I'm a quasi-pacifist. I'll fight if my home country is invaded, but I'll not partake in empire-building.

Oh, and I think I'll pass. Actually, yeah, I'll absolutely pass.

As for prom, I'm going to just go alone, hook up with friends, do the activites, and spend several hours sitting around until early morning. Hours of just waiting for the thing to end. What a way to celebrate graduation, huh?

Anonymous said...

The problem these days with the autism diagnosis is that most people who claim an autism dx have to actually tell people they are autistic because no one would know.

If you are so HF that you can converse using your own voacal cords, walk and use the toilet, why is there this pressing need to tell everyone and their aunt that you are autistic.

The autism obssession these days is like ADD was ten years ago. One minute no one had it and the next every other person you meet says they have it. At least half of them have to be making it up for attention.

Googlybear said...

Anon,

I agree. If someone is functioning quite well in life, I don't understand why they suddenly need to be disabled. It is particularly amusing the way ND talks out of both sides of their mouth. Autism is a disabilty they cry, as they demand their disabled rights and use their 'disability' to demand special treatment. Then as soon as you point out that disabilities need treatment or should be alleviated when possible, they start screaming that autism is a normal diversity of brain function and that they are sick of being labelled by people who are trying to kill off their uniqueness. It is a disability of convenience. Unfortunately, I fear that these types of people who are able to advocate for themselves, are going to suck up the resources that should rightfully be going to the autistic adults who really are disabled and can not advocate well for themselves or at all.

Anonymous said...

Asperger's is not normal diversity. AS, even when the person is very intelligent, is a horrible disorder. The older the AS individual gets the more cruel, self centred and obssessive they get.

An adult aspie will ignore you if you are in pain, reject your humanity, put their children and family members in danger through lack of ability to see it.

People with Asperger's need to be trained from early childhood to understand the world, to be socially aceptable, to be kind, to realise that others have needs too. They need this training because they do not and never will understand people with out help.

And they should earn their own living because they are fully capable of doing this for the most part. A well trained aspie can have a successul life without making the lives of other around them hell.

The only way to train an aspie is through tough love because they will not get it any other.

This is not diversity, it is a neurological disorder which needs help. People who refuse help for these children and encourage them to 'be who they are' are setting them up for failure in relationships, friendships, workplaces, you name it.


This is why I get angry with people claiming to be on the spectrum when they are not. They give the general public the idea that Asperger's are a bunch of adorable, nutty professor types. People think AS is trendy.

It is not, it is horrible to live with.

These Aspie wannabees also make people think that LF autism is not really that serious and that a LF kid could grow up to be an aspie if they are left alone.

The wannabees, Amanda Baggs, Christschool types who really have nothing particular wrong with them are doing genuine autistics a huge disservice.

Stop pretending this is not a serious disorder that needs help.

Joeker said...

1st Anon: I feel that it should only be talked about if neccesary, or with your close family. Also, it's harder to take back something you've said if you didn't say it in the first place. A bit of wisdom I enjoy having.

Googly: Yeah. If someone can do well enough on their own, do they neccesarily need the additional resources? Not so much.

2nd Anon: You're making several very rash generalizations, and several misconceptions, in large part to perceptions on part of the Aspies.
I find it offensive that you feel Aspies need training, like a puppy or monkey.
Learning plays a large part of understanding, and this being said, to actually understand is better than learning by rote, but not understanding the precepts of the actions.

I also find it crude that you think of an Aspie as someone who directly creates a hellish or hell-like atmosphere wherever they go.

I don't agree with the diverses, but I also don't think that you should build a facade of yourself in order to live out your life. Not being yourself is, in essence, hurting yourself. What self-image can there be if there are two conflicting images?

I'd rather be misconstrued as a nutty professor type, than as an emotionless sadist, if misconceptions are formed of me.

Do you speak as living with it as you yourself being, a close family member, or a friend?

I heartily disagree with the stance taken with that, that LF children grow into HF or Aspie adults. I don't believe it has any basis in reality.

I have no respect for either Christcool or Baggs. There's what you yourself believe, and then there's deceiving people about others.

I concur with your stance on the issue you present. Autism is very serious, and not exactly what you'd say is satirical.

Anonymous said...

Joker said...I find it offensive that you feel Aspies need training, like a puppy or monkey.
Learning plays a large part of understanding, and this being said, to actually understand is better than learning by rote, but not understanding the precepts of the actions."

First of all I never mentioned puppies or monkeys, you did that.

Joker..."Do you speak as living with it as you yourself being, a close family member, or a friend?"


You can take all the offense you want, but I have lived for 20 years with an aspie, and dealt with his aspie family members, and they never, and I mean, never, come to an understanding of things by themselves. If they did they would not be autistic. Their brains work differently. If Aspies were more succesful at adapting there would be more of them. Natural selection has kept their numbers low, thank God.

Aspies learn by rote, by training. The do not have the ability to generalize from one sitation to another which is why drill learning is the only way to teach them anything. I am talking here about very high functioning, intelligent aspies. They are all as smart as you like and they do not get it unless they are drilled over and over, which is why tough love is needed, not cruelty or aversives or any such abuse, just endless patience and repetition on the part of those who care for and love them.

If you were my son, Joker, I would consider it my mission in life to help you fit in, focus on school and move towards a happy, productive life without labels, just as I have done for my 19 year old. I have given up on my kid's father who is too old to learn now and refuses to learn anyway. He just blunders his way through life and does not know why he keeps failing socially.

Aspies need training from day one if they are to be successful, and everyone deserves to have a chance at happiness.

I hope you have someone inyour life who is doing this for you.

Joeker said...

Very simple why I was offended. One: You said trained. That Aspies have to...
"...be trained from early childhood to understand the world, to be socially aceptable, to be kind, to realise that others have needs too. They need this training because they do not and never will understand people with out help."

Training implies teaching an animal to do a trick. A better and more accurate term would be teach. And as to the dog and monkey comments? You can draw a lot from someone saying that they'll send someone bananas for their daughter.

Two:
"The older the AS individual gets the more cruel, self centred and obssessive they get."

I don't like the way you describe people with AS. And I've yet to see this cruelty you speak of manifesting. You want cruel? Just look at what Fore is saying about near strangers. Continuing on...

"An adult aspie will ignore you if you are in pain, reject your humanity, put their children and family members in danger through lack of ability to see it."
"A well trained aspie can have a successul life without making the lives of other around them hell."

Ignore? Rejection of your humanity? Where does all this come from?
I do not think many people would agree that their lives have become hells because there is an Aspie in their life. And I don't agree with your "well-trained" remark. It smacks of sounding like treating Aspies as less than human. What next, "good boy?"

Three, Clarify: "This is why I get angry with people claiming to be on the spectrum when they are not."

Whom are you speaking of? Me, because I do not appear to be on the spectrum to your discerning eye? It's hard to tell if you're the same Anon who accuses me of being a fraud. Comes from being anon. At least chose a pseudonym like Yosmite did.

Four, my last sentence: Were you even reading at that point, or were you so caught up in your anger that you failed to notice that I take Autism seriously. I also take slurs against Autism seriously. And that is sure what it sounded like to me.

Five(onto your posted response to me, now), your logic: So, you've lived with Aspies for twenty years? Does this give you the right to say that Aspies make people's lives hells, and that Aspies are cruel people?
Where do you get off, you self-centered, whiny little coward of anonymity?

Six, Natural Selection: Congratulations, you know some science. Only enough to make a fool of yourself with ignorance. How is that true if you support the view that Autism is caused by Thimerosal? Natural Selection is genetics. Genetic Mutation, bringing about a change to a species by the better adapted animal surviving better, to carry on to reproduce, thus causing an evolutionary change in a species.

Seven, learning: How about logic? It's harder to form a logical view of the world, in which you can understand the things around you, if you simply learn by rote. Rote only goes so far. I formed logic, with much help from my parents. I think I'm much better off, in this instance, than the narrow view you take on Aspies only being capable if forced to learn how to be normal by continuous repetitions.

Eight, my life:
"If you were my son, Joker, I would consider it my mission in life to help you fit in, focus on school and move towards a happy, productive life without labels..."

That is what my parents did. They didn't train me. They set out what was right, and what was wrong, and they taught me what was right and what was not. No tough love, just love. They support me, they let me learn myself, rather than force information into me, and I'm moving towards a happy, productive life without labels.

Now, I did this point by point to explain why I felt so poorly of what you've been saying, and not to cause offense. I did it so that you can understand my point of view in these things.

Thank you for your time,
~Joeker

Anonymous said...

Joker,

I'm not anonymous here. I have had trouble with my password. I have posted a lot under anonymous for that reason. You will find me posting as Fox 2012. Sometimes I forget to sign my name, plus I was concerned in case someone else started signing it just to be an idiot. I will likely sign up again with another name. I'm not afraid to tell the truth about asperger's.

Everything I said about aspies is true.

Autism is an disorder not a way of life. Autism is an illness that deserves a cure as much as any other illness. Autistic kids deserve to be trained to behave properly so they will grow up to be productive adults.

I wish you had someone in your life who could help you. I really do so you would not have to spend the rest of your life crying over being misunderstood, bullied, etc, etc.

You take issue with everything that is said, pulling it apart and get worked up over a word here or a word there. It is very obvious that you are an aspie. I truly wish I could help you deal with life better.

You need to do more reading and less posting, more taking advice and less taking offense. You could learn something if you let yourself.

Poor little boy.

Googlybear said...

Fox/anon,

I think alot of people spend their lives crying over being misunderstood. Joeker is only 18. Teenagers often lack something called perspective, which will come with age and life experience. I think he is doing a pretty good job of trying to see both sides of the debate, that is a pretty good thing for someone, especially one with an aspie dx. It isn't right to make any kind of judgement on his parents parenting skills. We don't know anything about them. I don't think it is fair to keep throwing Joeker's aspergers back at him.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, I didn't mean to be mean. However, I have huge experience with Asperger's and I know how they think. If he is AS and I believe he is, then at least one of his parents probably are too. That does not mean they did not do their best, but aspies make weird parents. Look at Christcruel. I know vaccines are poisonous, but I also know that there is a big genetic component too.

Also, 18 or not, if you want to get into a debate and be treated as an equal then you cannot use your age to ask for special treatment.

He can stick up for himself.

Googley, I like you, you make a lot of sense and I can see you have used a lot of patience with the Joker.

Fox

Joeker said...

"I wish you had someone in your life who could help you. I really do so you would not have to spend the rest of your life crying over being misunderstood, bullied, etc, etc.

You take issue with everything that is said, pulling it apart and get worked up over a word here or a word there. It is very obvious that you are an aspie. I truly wish I could help you deal with life better.

You need to do more reading and less posting, more taking advice and less taking offense. You could learn something if you let yourself.

Poor little boy."

That was how I had spent my earlier life. I've not had a reason to cry since being the age of twelve, save deaths within family, peers, and really sad movies, books, and games.

There is a big difference in how words are used. A meaning can have many different words for it, and they vary in sense. The words you use reflect strongly a negative view.

I do not take issue with everything said. Have you not been reading my responses beyond me and you? I even agree with several things, and support the removal of Thimerosal from all vaccines. Do you not think that to be relevant?

You keep bringing in my AS DX, and for no discernable purposes. Except perhaps to draw attention to it, and bring forth the terms "brain damaged" and "impaired function."

You should take your own advice.

Poor mature adult.

Also, I have already stated my opinion of my parent's parenting skills. I feel they were, in the very, most absolute least, adequate. Just averagely, a great job.

I can stick up for myself, though I am grateful that Googly feels that it's proper to defend me, when I am not here to do so. You have my thanks for your kindness, Googly.

But Fox, you CANNOT have it both ways, to treat me with disrespect as a "little boy," and then to turn around and make me out to be making a pity-play based on age. Call me a little boy, but an adult when it suits you? Make up your mind. Either I am deserving of being an equal, and thus equal to this libel and treatment, or a silly little boy.
Not both ways.

Confused by your wishy-washy ways,
~Joeker

Googlybear said...

Fox,

You definately know more about aspie than I do. My mom was pretty aspie/autie after her mental breakdown when I was little. Once they got her evened out on medication, she was alot like an hfa. Very rigid in her routine, obsessed with one topic (one track mind my dad called it), lots of anxiety and socially did not have very many if any friends- among other things. That is why I think schizo and autie are connected in some way. My aunt, her sister, has since told me that my mom was always a little eccentric and "special" growing up and that my grandmother was very overprotective of her. My mom's side of the family never talks about much of anything important, but "eccentric and special" is how they describe half of the people in the family. Even as a kid and then young adult, my mom didn't function well with any kind of stress or great amounts of responsibility like having a kid.

Anonymous said...

Googley,
I agree, there does seem to be a close connection between autism and shizophrenia, not to mention other mental illness like bi-polar and other neurological conditions like Tourettes.

Sound like you had a heck of a time with your mum growing up. Well, not to worry, because from what I can gather just reading your posts you have gone out of your way to be a great mum. Being a good parent to our kids can sure make up for lack of parenting in our own lives.

Being thrown into trying to understand autism and live with it is a experience nothing else can compare to. Between my husband and my very mildly AS child, life has been the proverbial roller coaster for so long.

I was agaist vaccines long before I had kids. I had done a lot of personal research and knew they were poisonous. God knows how autistic my gorgous kid would have been pumped full of mercury. People seem to be on te side of either mercury or genetics, but I believe that both play a part in many cases, though I also think that some kids just get the mercury and become autistic.

One more thing. My kids have never been vaccinated, however, my AS kid's behaviour did change very noticably at about 18 to 20 months, from happy and outgoing to clingly, fearful, just different, obssessive. I was a stay at home mother, so nothing changed at that time, just the behaviour.
Fox2012

spydyee said...

John,

Would you like me to add this to the list of needs we are making to present to congress over at combating-autism-speaks. I knew you were a closet autistic. So golf is your perseveration you old sly dog.(like we couldn't figure that out with a screen name like foresam) Is sam your golfing partner's name and do you often have to yell fore at him to keep from smacking him in the head with a ball? My husband said to tell you there are several serious subsets including the two that he belongs to. SOA and BTJ. SIT ON ASS and BIT TORRENT JUNKIE

Let me be the first to invite all you recently outed subset members to participate in a group so you can get your civil rights (ok maybe not really the right to golf or sit on your ass and download Fedora Core whatever for the gazillionth time from Bit Torrent but we are actually trying to go after the real bad guys in the world of Autism/Mercury poisioning/whatever.

http://www.combating-autism-speaks.blogspot.com

spydyee said...

foresam

Before you get upset with me I do know that sam is you son or at least the name you call him by on the internet. I really do enjoy the humor in your little satire. Also, anyone that gets upset over this please go take a chill pill and laugh a little. foresam you are welcome to pick on the Aspie Ghandi-esque fencepost up her butt lets play nice together Spydyee any time you want to. I do have a sense of humor. I was laughing so hard during part of this that I honestly almost fell out of my chair. No, it wasn't hypotonia either my muscles were just fine but my giggle box was on sensory overload and couldn't shut down. Oh good grief I need some down-time safe room here I come! SLAM HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE!

Fore Sam said...

Spydyee, Yes, add it to the list. People with OGF shouldn't have to endure work getting in the way of our celebrating the joy of OGF.
BTW, you should probably delete my comment from your new group or the ND's will be scared away.

spydyee said...

I most certainly will not delete your comment from there! You are not chickening out on me now. If you can come play in my sandbox then they can be big boys and girls and come play nice too! Hey I been up at the forums at AS stirring up trouble and recruiting some frustrated parents. I might need your wit and sarcasm once in a while over there on my blog. Get your best cranky old golfer attitude out of the closet and press it. The crap is gonna hit the fan soon. HOLY CRAP Now I know what subset I belong to! I am officially a member of the PSTMRLA subgroup of Autism. (Pot Stirring Trouble Making Liberal Aspies)
uh oh giggle box sensory overload coming on gotta run..........
SLAM
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE

spydyee said...

PSTMRLA subgroup of Autism. (Pot Stirring Trouble Making Radical Liberal Aspies)

I was giggling too much & forgot a word there!

spydyee said...

John,

All levity aside for a minute will you please go over to my blog use the contact info I posted there to get in touch with me. I have a serious issue I would like to discuss with you. I really need your input on this.

Athena