Wednesday, June 06, 2007

Neurodiversity, A Straight Shooting Opinion

I couldn't leave this comment buried in the comment section.

Anonymous said...
Lets please get one thing straight and keep it in mind:


Got it?

In fact you want to know autism?
Seems that there's a direct proportion to the more autistic someone is, the more Neurodiversity/Amanda Baggs etc squats, spreads cheeks and opens fire.

Amanda Baggs started exploiting autistics starting with the girl she was assigned while in college to 'help' -- and decided she'd rather be more like her than to help her -- and its been nonstop exploitation, manipulating bullying, intimidation, on any of them since.
The more direct the contact, the more autistic the target, the more severe the actions, this from a woman who thinks we're all cockroaches she created anyway, 'not one of us'
Thinking you're like a kid out in the back yard stirring up and fucking with an anthill is this bitch, especially when it comes to autistic people.

You know what, Amanda Baggs? I got yer 'not one of us' *right here* bitch.

That goes for the rest of these "neuordiversity' fuckwads who think they've latched onto something good, the 'perfect' disability because there's nobody to contest them and the scant few with legitimate reason to who might are quickly used and cast aside..

Currently Amanda's been using the plight of some high schooler with AS and now this Larry thing to try to show "see? I help 'em I advocate for em"

I'll tell you what:
I've never seen a truly autistic person aware enough to think of things in terms of 'public life' vs 'private life' let alone contruct such things, nevermind to the level she has, Never seen an autistic person capable to have let alone so obsessed with her public persona and image..

Obsessed with image and quite capable to 'read' the must subtle perceived social slightings, yet this bitch can't control her farts?

She's 'aware' of just what the hell she wants to be and is hiding behind this disability she doesn't have to excuse the rest.

I feel so bad for autistics who made it as far as being able to commmunicate by text, to get online and have their efforts to communicate being met with THIS bunch of lower than low demons.

Lets get that cleared up right away too:
Its not autism or autistics that are demonized, its you fakers, you good-for-nothing frauds.

This webpage would have been MUCH better named "Hating Faking Autism"

THAT'S what it hates, that's what I hate.

You are demons. Traumatizing people and causing so much pain to others, so she and the lot of you can play-act, you incredibly selfish selfish bitches, all of you.

Die 'neurodiversity' die die die.


jypsy said...

"NOT ONE.Okay?"

I think even John would agree that Alex is autistic.

Joeker said...

"Die die die" is hardly what I'd call a valid opinion. More of a death threat than a statement.

Anonymous said...

Your a fucking moron, John Best. No wonder nobody likes you.

Mark Probert said...

You overdosed on your vileness pills, again. You are a sniveling little man who hates his kid because his kid is not perfect. One day, even your kid will realize it, and want you out of his life.

Being the coward you are, you will not post this.

Anonymous said...

You're an obscene and horrible person, John. How can you justify the evil that spews from you?

You can't control everyone, John. People have the right to be who they are. If they don't want to cure themselves, what gives you the right to treat them like dirt for that?

If you think that taking the piss out of complete strangers is going to help your son, you have a lot to learn.

Joeker said...

So, tell me, Fore...

Just what does this Anon do to gain this kind of attention?
Why do you require a face and a name for those who are opposed, yet not even a nickname for the Anons who come here and do the internet equivalent of yelling, and tell Neurodiversity to "die die die?"

How are they to be held to their words?

I am held by what I say, as is every other blogger who posts, but what of this Fox? There is no way to hold her to her words.

She lost her temper. She freaked out. She said vile things, and justifies stating that all Aspies are stalkers and emotionless by the fact that she is married to an Aspie. I wonder if her husband knows just what she thinks of Aspies? If she hates him so much, then why not divorce him?

I hardly think it right to bar the comments of people who are hiding nothing while favouring the comments made by anonymous people, and prefer to post someone saying "die die die" than opposing their point of view, and defending Aspies against being called a variety of offensive terms.

Fore Sam said...

Gypsy, Can Alex talk, toilet himself, read, write, run through the streets without running into traffic and generally take care of himself? If so, how is he remotely comparable to kids who can't do those things and will never do those things unless we fix their God damn autism?
Celebrate this.

Googlybear said...


John obviously knows the anon and that is why they are anon. This is one of those situations that is better left alone. You won't understand that because you want answers to everything, but in this case it just is.

Anonymous said...

Good news. They can chelate vileness. You are saved.

Fore Sam said...

I don't know who wrote this comment. Anything anyone feels like writing that is anti Neuroinsanity is fine by me.
The lot of them are the most idiotic jackasses I have ever encountered. It's not surprising that most sane people feel the same way.

Anonymous said...

Joker, that post was not me. My grammar is far better than that. How dare you suggest I wrote that post. I think I know who did, but understand that person wants anonymity.

It was not me!

Anonymous said...

If so, how is he remotely comparable to kids who can't do those things and will never do those things unless we fix their God damn autism?
Celebrate this.


There are children who are NOT Autistic that do the same thing. There are NT children who do this.

You don't hate Autism. You hate disability of all sorts. We live with them. Why can't you? Too hard? Interferes too much? Can't make the commitment?

Great father you are!

Fore Sam said...

Anon,You said:"There are children who are NOT Autistic that do the same thing. There are NT children who do this"
Do you have Down's Syndrome?

Joeker said...

"I don't know who wrote this comment. Anything anyone feels like writing that is anti Neuroinsanity is fine by me."

But of course, the opposite thing you did here, if done by the ND, would be a grave insult, a dire and direct threat?

There's opposition, then there's crossing a line.

Die die die. How comfy would you be with having someone make that statement towards you and the HA group? Would you not feel threatened? Would you not feel angry? Would you not seek to have it removed for the sheer hate within it?

They stepped over a line here, and you could have prevented it. There is not a single person, in my belief, who will support the deaths of every Neurodiverse. You are supportive of this by hosting it on a post, and making it above the other comments.

The same ought to be said of you. Sinking down to this kind of level...
Are you truly that blind and full of hatred?

Fox: I give you the benefit of the doubt then. I shall change the blogpost I made, and I retract the assertion that you were the one to make it.

Open: However, I feel that this Anon, whoever they are, should not be permitted to hide in the shadows like this. I think there should be a choice. They come forward to the open, revealing themselves or have their comment removed.
You must be accountable for your words. I am. Fore is. We all are. Except for you, apparently. At least the ND who allow no opposition actually reveal a little of themselves.

In closing, just leaving this be is no excuse. There has been a line crossed, and I hope that this doesn't cause more trouble than this anonymous coward, whoever they be, is worth.

Googlybear said...

Can Alex talk, toilet himself, read, write, run through the streets without running into traffic and generally take care of himself?

This has been kind of bugging me because my daughter toilets herself, talks, reads and writes but is most definately autistic. She doesn't run into the street anymore but has safety issues if not watched, and she can't take care of herself at a 10 year old level but she can be trusted around the house without intense supervision My daughter, in spite of the things she can do, can not function without near continuous attention at school and I can not let her get more than an arms length away in a store. I know that LFA is much more dire than the moderate and mild versions, but they are most definately autism too.

Anonymous said...


It's the concept of Neurodiversity that this anonymous poster wishes would die, because they believe it's all a fake.

Whoever wrote this doesn't want actual people to die.

Fore Sam said...

Joeker, One of the great things about this country is that you can say whatever you want.
Some fleabag lawyers like to try to challenge that right but I'm free to disagree with them. To avoid being bothered by such fleabag lawyers, it is sometimes better to say things anonymously.
At the same time, on my blog, I'm free to prevent you from calling sane people names. That's why I have deleted most of your posts. If you'd like to knock some neuroinsane dirtbags, feel free to do so.

Anonymous said...


if you had any idea how to read people's on line 'voices' you would have known at once I had nothing to do with that post.

I have no problem with the level of anger in it, but for anyone to think I would use such erratic sentence structure upsets me.

You need to be careful who you jump on.

I believe I know who wrote that post and why, and that person has justifiable grievances.

Your problem, and all aspies have it is, taking things literally.
That poster did not want anyone to die. They want ND to die, to end, to stop printing nonsense.

If you have posted anywhere accusing me of anything you had better take it down now.

You could find yourself in trouble.


Ben Collina said...

No John, we are not free to say whatever we want. The courts have long recognized a class of speech known as "fighting words" - speech meant to provoke violence. That is not free speech. Likewise, you are not free to libel and defame people.

Fore Sam said...

Ben, The truth is never libel.

maxima said...

I can't believe how humourless some people are. They took the "Die, Die, Die" comment so seriously.

I wonder if you'll get any lawyers after you John, you know it's illegal to make death threats.

Just admit it John, you want to be like Amanda. All you need is a speech tool, wheelchair, sagging breasts, and a few long facial hairs around your chin. Don't forget to burn the bra, "Burn baby burn!"

Anonymous said...

You 'autism community' 'neurodiversity' assholes run around with your little 'autism uniforms' consisting mainly of t-shirts with idiotic catch-phrases and slogans, most of them very 'in yer face' about autism, the most hypocritical of all is

"Not being able to speak is not the same as not having anything to say"

because all of you (including Amanda Baggs with her elective mutism) most certainly do have the ability to speak, and then you spend your collective efforts focused on silencing anyone autistic who DOES 'have anything to say.'

Neurodiversity spends an inordinate amount of time and effort making sure that autistics actually don't ever get to say a damned thing.

It seems funny this should have to be pointed out in a forum regarding autism, but its common knowledge what happens when someone, anyone, autistic or otherwise, is screweed over, then lacking (or in this case is deprived) of their ability to communicate about it.

Here's a hint:
At very least 'Squirrely' behaviors and sudden frustrated explosive outbursts can result.

Parents of autistic children can confirm this, also anyone can who's been victimized, really victimized by something, then sworn to silence about it. They can tell you the very profound and long lasting effect such a thing has.

Maybe, Neurodiversity, it would have been better to have allowed honest and proper communication in the first place (and then to have given honest and proper responses) to the problems, instead of threatening and badgering, intimidating those who don't agree with you and those harmed by you. Instead of trying to 'make it go away' in this manner, if you really wanted to impress the world (and does seem to be what you're all about), you'd have made it right, simply put:
You'd have said you were sorry, made amends, put right that which you had wronged and that would be the end of it, and the world would think what wonderful people you are for having done that.

But, Neurodiversity, I suppose you figured "Well, they're autistic, afterall, how hard can it actually be to silence them?"

In bigger more organized yet equally opressive political situations this is often called resistance or revolt, etc.

You guys aren't big enough or serious enough to warrant or deserve words like those. Those words are reserved for use by people like my grandparents, as applied to Nazi-occupied nations like Hungary and Poland, and the bold actions of my ancestors and many others in dealing with it.

While I like to think I inherited some of my grandparents attributes, (and it seems I have, complete with their hot temper),
You lot, meanwhile, are not deserving or worthy of those words nor to refer to the Holocaust in any way, taking words from it to compare the way you do.

Start reading the events that have and are taking place here, people are telling you directly why some have to use anonymity, read it, understand it, and stop making enemies out of everyone who's posted 'anon' -- your issue is with John Best about this, taking it out on anonymous posters isn't earning you any friends.
How many times and how many ways do you have to be told that these assholes are running around like little junior Nazis, Little wouldbe Hitlers, with their little 'watch your mouth or we'll get you, the lawyer's gonna get you" remarks do you have to see and be told before you 'get it'?
Also, not every anon post is made by one and the same person.
You think you've got such great logic, etc? Start using it.
Don't cop out with your age or resort to namecalling so you piss and moan when you get namecalling and dispresect right back.
Some people think Asperger's people are assholes. Do you realize you're going a long way to prove them right. It makes me sad because you're actually one 'on the outside' of Neurodiversity and your efforts could be (and in that respect) are beneficial, but stop acting like such an ass to other posters on this forum, please.

Yes, I said "Die Neurodivsrsity die die die'
That's what I said and that's what I meant. If I had meant something else I'd have said that something else.

I make no excuse and I don't back down from what I said. It is what it is, they are my words, said as a result of what's been done, and I own them and stand by them.
Owning one's own actions - now there's a novel approach I would love to see members of the 'neurodiversity' community do, even just once, starting with Amanda Baggs, the head of the snake.

I could have used any other concept, a religion, a musical style "Die Country Music, die die" and I don't think Merl Haggard or whatever would feel in fear for his life over it, and neither do the 'Neurodiversity' -- its just another excuse to over-react and to make their threats. (if they were really so worried for their own safety, any of them, their actions would be considerably diffrent than they've been. Theyr'e too busy making others unsafe to be bothered with such things.)

Ironically its those who failed to take what I said literally who failed to 'get it' and made some other individuals/threats based interpretation.

"Die Neuordiversity, Die Die Die"
Neurodivdrsity is not a person; its a thing, a concept.

I could have said "Die Country Music Die Die" or "Die religion die die" (not that I have anything against any of those but I am making an example to explain my point). I don't think if I had said this that the Dixie Chicks or Reba McIntosh or whatever would suddenly feel in fear for their lives nor would any priests or preachers.

But since we're on the subject of words of aggression towards individuals:

I might evem say "I'd like to kick Amanda Bagg's ass so hard that when I wiggle my toes her eyes cross" that that hardly means I have made a threat or any intent of doing so, its a worded expression, a venting. Again, they know this, its more attempts to intimidate and quelch any expression of dissent of any sort, anything that doesn't smack of All Heil Amanda Baggs and her FanClub -- especially from someone who's 'one of their own' if its true that "Neurodiversity' includes all people -- whether they wan tot be or not -- who are on the spectrum especially 'very on the spectrum.'

Neurodiversity, as a collective group and the whole that you are, you'd do well to allow people at least expression, at least that much, you've got what you wanted out of your targets already, and lay off the heavy-handed attempts to police the entire internet for those who still survive, still utilize the internet, still oppose you and what you've done and are 'having anything to say' about it.

If they really posed you such a big threat, you'd do well (as if you haven't done enough already) to leave people be and to make sure only that you know where people are at and what they are doing. "Know thine enemey' I believe the saying goes, 'keep an eye on' but otherwise leave be, but I'm talking to a bunch of self-rightious know-it-all mental- defective-but-otherwise-NTs-in-autistic's-clothing (quite literaly) anyway, so skip it, you're not listening, you're only scanning for any oppurtunity for more intimidation tactics. Its a waste of breath (literal or proverbial - waste of finger power to type it then) to tell you bunch anything. That's the problem. Its certainly not a result of autism.

Ironically its the failure to take literally the words presented that caused the 'confusion' (read: more threats from neurodiversity that everyone had better 'watch what you say or we're gonna get you').

Jypsy, Alex doesn't count as 'part of neurodiversity' just because you're in on it and have dragged his name around in it. You doing that is just another glowing example of using an autistic like a tool, manipulating for your own collective purposes. That this time it happens to be your own son hardly makes it any more noble.

In fact You'd better hope that when you're no longer around and Alex is alone and vulnerable that the likes of Amanda Baggs doesn't see him, size him up for the easy target he will be, and make much harsher use of him than you have.
That goes for you and all the 'neurodiversity' parents out there, thinking they've got it so made because they're such protective and doting parents that "nobody'll ever do it to MY kid" -- all I can say is you'd better hope not.

Everyone is someone's child, including those 'Neurodiversity' has already chewed up and spit out.

Here's how I'd rewrite the hypocritical Psuedo AUtistic's Uniform T-shirt phrase:
"Not being able to speak doesn't mean always being under some obligation to HAVE anything to say"

Because an autistic didn't have something to say to begin with, that autistic got badly burned. Now ironically that autistic's got something to say about that.

John Best is as right as right can be everytime that he says 'the truth is never libel'

Some people risk alot because of the truth.
They don't have a choice, it seems to be built into them to do so.
Perhaps its inherited quality.

Fore Sam said...

Maxima, I do have a white goatee and photo gray glasses but I don't think I can gain 400 pounds. I could probably do a more convincing act of stimming from watching my son though since he is a true autistic and he won't mind if I borrow his talking machine.
The thing I'd still like to know about Baggs is how the cute little blonde girl that was supposedly Baggs as a child turned into a brunette. Do you think I can get sued for asking that question?

Fore Sam said...

Anon, I hope you aren't upset that I put your last brilliant comment up as a new thread. Id be happy to give this one its' own thread too if you'd like. I wouldn't want the neuronitwits to miss it.
BTW, they have made many idiotic comments that I didn't publish. If I don't publish them, you can imagine how base they were.

Joeker said...

"It's the concept of Neurodiversity that this anonymous poster wishes would die, because they believe it's all a fake."

So, now you know just what they think? You said you thought you might know who it is. I'd like you to speak with them about it, and get them to attach a name. I'd settle for a fake one, even. So long as they are taking responsibilty for what they're saying. I have to pay the price for my words, as does Fore, so why should they get to laden down others with such a statement?

Fore: Yes, saying what you want is great! I love my freedom of speech. But it's those like that Anon who ruin it for others. The freedom to lie, to accuse without proof or causation, to demonize?
No. That's not right or just, anyway you look at it.
You block my retorts, most lacking profanity, to those assholes who feel it's justified to call me everything from a little boy to a whiny bitch, and call that reasonable!?

Fox: "Joker,

if you had any idea how to read people's on line 'voices' you would have known at once I had nothing to do with that post."

I've spent much of my teenaged life online because I can barely stand social interaction.
I think I can get the implications of repeated "dies."

Fore: True. However, a lot of the time, it takes a court date and legal fees to prove that.

Fore Sam said...

Joeker, People don't want neuroinsane scumbags dragging their names through the mud while they try to assassinate anyone's character who helps an autistic child. If this person used their name, you can bet that Kevin Leech or Seidel or some other nitwit would jump all over it.
The neuroinsane would then delete any comments that came to the defense of that person. They do this because some of them are experts in propaganda. Do you understand that neuroinsanity is mostly propaganda?

Anonymous said...

Googly said: This has been kind of bugging me because my daughter toilets herself, talks, reads and writes but is most definately autistic. She doesn't run into the street anymore but has safety issues if not watched, and she can't take care of herself at a 10 year old level but she can be trusted around the house without intense supervision My daughter, in spite of the things she can do, can not function without near continuous attention at school and I can not let her get more than an arms length away in a store. I know that LFA is much more dire than the moderate and mild versions, but they are most definately autism too.

Thank you Googly.
I feel your same pain.

Anonymous said...

Amanda Baggs and Dubya Bush use the exact same tactics that you use.
Its a good diversionary digressive designed to create a singular miniscule non-issue that you can try to get others to refocus on, and every time anyone responds and bothers to attempt to explain that which you are calculatedly playing stupid and refusing to understand in order to elongate the life of your non-issue (anonymous posts) you succeed in derailing people's focus from the real issue.

Its a viable tactic providing you're dealing with easily lead and easily dstractable people, but even for a Neurodiversity troll, you fail.
You can even blame this failure on 'my neurology' if you like, I'll let you.
But either way when referring to you and your Neurodiversity distraction tactics, like the lady with the lovely British accent used to say on tv:

"You ARE the weakest link Goodbye."

Fore Sam, Joeker only 'gets' what he wants to get, its selective understanding so he can keep his "but you're all posting anonymously!" in focus as he can 'not get it' forever and thus repeat it endlessly, hoping to obliterate the real issues while people waste time and effort to explain this non issue to him rather than have the focus and discussion where it belongs.

My focus in particular is the savagery with which neuordiveristy gones after autistics -- and while Neurodiversity claim to be advocates for them.

You want to use holocaust comparisons? This is about like calling the Third Reich "Jewish Advocates" (and at points during their regime they pretty much did call themselves that too).

Yes Fore Sam, you can use a post I made to make a new thread if you like. Thank you for asking.
For a guy that 'hates autism' you've done a very rare thing:

You've asked my permission before reposting/using something of mine.

One simple act of respect, one others might think nothing of and take for granted as happening for them every day.
You asked me first. Simple, right?

Its a very loud and especially sad fact that such courtesies were never afforded to the autistics who were used by neurodiversity.

I'll take your brand of 'hating autism' over their brand of 'advocacy' any day.

Anonymous said...

Joeker is funny.

If this were in fact WWII, we'd hear from "Joe" the day he ran into the street on full tilt at the nearest troopers all the while screaming
"My Nmae is Joeker and I'm not anonymous! I'm not anonymous!"

"Oddly" that would be the last we'd ever hear from him.

Fore Sam said...

Googly, Sorry I didn't comment on your post sooner. You didn't teach your daughter to run through the streets of your town celebrating the joy autism, did you? That's the difference.
Gypsy is a friend of Michelle Dawson which makes her an idiot by association. She does OK on her own too. It doesn't sound to me like her kid has many problems.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, Joeker claims to be a young man. If that's true, he may be able to learn something here, unlike the majority of ND nitwits who only accept as truth that which the insane cult leaders tell them. I think I've deleted more of his posts than I've published.
You're right though. Neuronitwits have consistently tried to derail the comments by going off on tangents. They're such assholes that they even tried that the first time I wrote a post detailing how my son has improved with chelation. They have no respect for anything.
We see that some of them are linked with the Quackbusters who are funded by Pharma. Their only goal is to discredit any treatment that helps autistic kids. They can fool naive people with ASD's. They can even convince some respectable parents to listen to them. But, they can never fool any intelligent person. That's why most of them are afraid to comment here anymore.

Fore Sam said...

A nitwit calling itself Peter Miles just tried to post a comment claiming that I am worse than Hitler by trying to destroy a segment of the human race or some such nomnsense to that effect, along with some other extraneous garbage.
You're right nitwit. I am in favor of destroying all autism. Unlike you, I don't like watching people suffer with disabilities that can be cured. Why don't you shoot yourself up with some more thimerosal until you reach the point that you are unable to talk or type? When that alters your idiotic perspective, Generation rescue will stand ready to help cure you.

Suzanne said...

Are you truly that blind and full of hatred?
You need to ask?

Peter Miles said...

I have been injected with Thimerosal, Mr. Best. And I am not Autistic. I know because I checked my medical records and had it verified. I then had the hair test done and it was negative.

Your crusade to remove Autism from the world is the same as removing the Jews, and by supporting it you prove yourself to be a facist nazi. And a sick poor excuse for a member of the human race.

And your loose application of the first amendment is also Hitler like.

Anonymous said...

John, can you help me here.

I put in my username, password and click on Google Blogger and everythime I get, 'invalid password. My password is not invald. What am I doing wrong?

Anonymous said...

Amanda Baggs, as quoted from "Jypsy's" website link "Our Names Are Autism, Too" (then 11th down on the list)

"I am a non-speaking 24-year-old and find it appalling that the author of this piece has created a fictional identity strikingly similar to my real life in order to promote views I would never promote."

but somehow its okay when you have been guilty of doing *exactly* this?

Goddamn. How in the hell do you sleep at night and live with yourself?

Anonymous said...

John Best,

I dare you to let this post go through since you have deleted all my others. You complain about the "NDs" blocking your posts when you do the same thing. I asked you and all your Chelation crew to explain something to this ignorant Autistic and you have yet to respond. Explain to me how something that did not exist in 1926 and had no reason to exist until 1928 caused a "disease" "disorder" or "condition", that you are sure is caused by that product 2+ years before the product was invented, in children that had never been exposed to it. I am waiting to see what your answer is. You can visit me at youtube. I am Spydyee. If you can converse without demonstrating your limited vocabulary I will gladly have an intelligent debate with you over this issue. Also, not that he needs defending but let me just say for the record that you are not worthy to wipe the dust from christschool's feet and you are unfit as a human being to even let Jr.'s username come out of your mouth. Fathers like him are a gift to their children and to their spouses. I am lucky to be blessed with a husband that is a great dad like christschool and you are not fit to even discuss either of them or their Autism. You want a war I'll give you a war. Bring it on! This Aspie Bitch will eat you for breakfast!

Andy said...

Your soul is full of shit, Besty! Satan will make your time in hell slow and immensly painful!

Googlybear said...

I have been injected with Thimerosal, Mr. Best. And I am not Autistic.

So you think that all people's genetic makeups are identical and all things affect all people exactly the same?

Do some reading on the subejct. Quite simply, it is believed that genetic mutations/differences cause some people to not be able to detox heavy metals from their system either efficiently or at all. This causes an accumulation. Also, some people might have recieved so much at once their body couldn't take the load.

Fore Sam said...

Spydyee, You sound a little disoriented.
My wife might have a problem with you eating me but, if you're good looking, well, maybe.
Anyhow, send me the link so I can see what you're talking about.

Googlybear said...

Your crusade to remove Autism from the world is the same as removing the Jews

WTF? How is autism, a developmental disorder/disability the same as being Jewish, a race defined by its unique religion? Are you really that stupid? How is trying to find a cure for a disorder akin to Hitler who killed people? Do you think Christopher Reeves was akin to Hitler because he was trying to find a cure for spinal cord injuries? I Michael J. Fox akin to Hitler from trying to find a cure for Parkinson's? Would it be inhuman to try to cure cerebral palsy?

If anyone was wondering why John is done dealing with opposition in a kindly fashion, just read the shit spewing from Peter Miles and realize he gets stuff worse than this that he doesn't post. The level of idiocy from Peter is almost unbearable. What is he going to do next, go piss on a bunch of parents with cancer kids?

Googlybear said...

Spydee, you know, I did give you a well thought out answer to the first post you put here and you never got back to me. So stop bitching.

I went and saw your videos. What I find funny about you, is that you posted on this site that you pretty much had your children in a metal free house on gfcf diet. Which means you used to be, what ND calls a "curbie". The only reason you are not anymore is that your youngest is autistic. OK, fine. But I know you know what is going on in biomed circles, yet now you act as though biomed parenets do not love their kids. Your video with face of autism when it is loved is utter tripe. My daughter is a happy child, she is loved. I'm sick and tired of the self righteous drivel from you and the likes of Christschool, who post pics of your kids smiling and act like this is some kind of rarity. It's not. My daughter is a happy, funny kid who likes to draw happy cartoons, to dance around the house and who laughs alot. She has ALWAYS been affectionate, her whole life, loving to cuddle, get hugs and kisses. Does that make her happier then your son, the one you said wasn't affectionate until recently? Should I make some arrogant video with pics of my kid hugging at every age and claim that this is the face of autism and insinuate that anyone whose autistic child isn't affectionate is a lousy parent? That would make me an arrogant prick, wouldn't it.

And as for your lovely friend Christschool. Well, do me a favor. Go watch his video on HBOT. Then type in the words "Grace Kenzit" and "mitochondrial" in a google search. You will soon find that the little girl whose picture he is using to show the evils of HBOT had a rare mitochondrial disorder and was not expected to live. HBOT saved her life. Would you rather she be dead and her parents celebrating the joy of fatal mitochondrial disorders because she looked a bit unhappy getting into the chamber one time? What kid is always happy getting medical treatments. Apparently Christschool would have chosen to let her die if she were his kid instead of getting HBOT. He is a monster, and his video is akin to abusing terminally ill children. And his arrogant ending, "why can't we give love" with pictures of his son, was hypocritical. Grace's parents were giving love, they went through great expense and the mom had to relocate for a time with Grace in order to get these lifesaving treatments. You know how Christschool gives love? He puts his son on video and tries to force him to stim for the camera, so he can show him off like a zoo exhibit to the entire world on YouTube.

Just because you are secretly bitter that biomed didn't work for you, and I understand, I might be disappointed to for a time. That doesn't mean you have to do a 180 and align yourself with ND. In addition, and this has been bugging me, just because an adult doesn't smile in a picture or isn't making eye contact with the camera, does not prove they are autistic.

Fore Sam said...

Peter Miles, 149 out of 150 people who are injected with thimerosal do'nt become autistic. The best evidence I've seen so far about why 1 in 150 does become autistic is the APO proteins which determine whether or not one can rid the body of mercury.
Had you been drinking when you wrote your comment? I don't quite follow your logic but I've heard similar from drunks in the gutter who were trying to bum a quarter off me.

Fore Sam said...

Googly, I don't recall Spydee commenting here before. Do you remember what post she commented on? Maybe one of my kids approved her comment and I never saw it.

Fore Sam said...

Joeker, I just deleted 8 of your comments from yesterday. I didn't even bother to look at most of them. If you want to insult decent parents who help their kids, go join Neuroinsanity. They will be happy to have you.

maxima said...

Foresam said: "I don't quite follow your logic but I've heard similar from drunks in the gutter who were trying to bum a quarter off me."

Hey, you are a Nazi, picking on us drunks now! :-(

Just for the hell of it Forsam, you should let in all posts on here; everyone would have a great time reading some of the non-logical justifications these anon people have for not looking into the mercury issue.

Peter Miles said...

I don't quite follow your logic

Of course you don't. That's because you have no concept of the implications of your view. If Thimerosol caused Autism, we'd all be Autistic. But we are not.

Autism is in the genes, like skin colour, hair colour, eye colour and so on. It is also a way of life, which for the benefit of this person called Googly is the reason why being Autistic compares to being a Jew.

I do not consume alcohol and I never have.

Fore Sam said...

Peter, You are a slow learner. I pity you. Now go back where you came from until you get cured.

Googlybear said...


I can't remember what post Spydee posted under. Her full user name is Athena "Spydee" Blakely. I think she is a Christschool clone in some ways. Basically, from what I gathered from her other comment, is that she was a hard core biomed parent with two autistic sons. With her third, she was testing their drinking water pitcher by pitcher for heavy metals. Her third chld became autistic and after that, she decided it was genetic and then set out to diagnose herself, her husband and pretty much all their relatives on both sides with ASD's. Of course, she calls herself an Aspie because no self respecting ND parent ever calls themselves autistic. They like the Aspie stereotype of high IQ and ability to care for oneself. She has a couple of CS like videos out from what I can see. Even though she was a biomed parent at one point, and I am presuming loved her children then; she has an attitude towards biomed and takes them same stance CS does of posting selected pictures of her kids where they look happy and insinuating that she has some special love for her kids the rest of us are lacking.

My opinion is that deep inside she is really bitter for having 3 autistic children and because she feels the biomed approach failed her. So she transfers her real feelings onto the rest of us, then took an if ya can't beat em join em stance and dx'd herself for whatever her reasons. I also think she is a hit and run type person.

Googlybear said...

Peter Miles,

You are a flippin' moron. That is all I can say. If you really understood anything about genetics, you would understand why some people would be more suseptible to thimerosol damage than others.

Also, if you understood genetics you would understand why being Autistic is not like being Jewish. It is more like being diabetic. Diabetes has a familial tendency with environmental triggers of its own and nobody in their right mind would turn down treatment or a cure for diabetes.

Fore Sam said...

Googly, I looked up Spydee to see if she had pictures of herself. She looks to be an anal retentive religious fanatic. I doubt she has a brain in her fuzzy little head.
I glanced at a couple of videos but didn't see anything she was talking about here. It's funny how pictures of brain dead people always jive with their ranting.

Anonymous said...

What the hell is wrong with this picture and Peter Miles "being autistic is like being a jew"? Autism is mercury poisioning dumb ass, if you get it out in time your not autistic anymore. Pssst. Sorry, but I can't chelate the jew out if you!

spydyee said...

Googlybear and John,

No I did not set out to self-diagnose anyone. I have a formal diagnosis from TEACCH and my husband from a Social Security approved Diagnostician outside of TEACCH who specializes in Pervasive Developmental Delays. I have three children 2 boys and one girl. I am a tree hugging, earth loving child of the hippie generation. I think neurotoxins in our vaccines and our mouths and our air are things we should not do to the earth. The earth is our mother and we are slowly killer her. Yes I was a "curebie" when my precious little boy that I almost lost at birth was diagnosed. Before that time I had heard little about Autism but I had seen that movie (Rain Man) and I knew in my heart that some of the stuff in it was pure crap (Creative License). Being the tree hugger that I was I fell into the biomed camp with ease. During my pregnancy I had already come across anti-vaxxers that are blaming every neurological disorder in the world on heavy metals. It was easy for me to get lured into this little group. I did test my water, I did try to treat my kids, I even went for the GFCF (God that was awful) diet for the whole family. Charity, my daughter, the one that by the statistics had the better chance of not being autistic just by fact that she was female, never had a single immunization.I never had any shots while pregnant with her. She was 2 years old when she had her first vaccine. This was after I was converted because between 18 and 24 months she was diagnosed with classic Kanner's Autism. In the process of all of this what happened as far as treating my kids was this.
Sidney (the oldest) showed some neurological issues (tics) so I did a little research and came across the anti-vaxxers and the dental amalgam mercury people. I decided that maybe he had issues with heavy metals even though he had no silver fillings the vaccine thing intrigued me. We set out to get him tested. However, before that happened Josh was born 5 weeks premature. Well a premature baby changes everything in your life so getting Sidney tested for something that was only mildly irritating took a back seat to the sit and watch my dying child in the hospital. Sid went to his grandmother and we took care of the intensive needs of the baby. Eventually Sid came home and things settled down. I began to watch for his tics again and they had lessened but were still there. So we set out to do this again. This was my first contact with DAN!. I was seeking a doctor that would do chelation (yes I had heard of chelation by that time too Isn't the internet a great thing!). Well DAN! being the "wonderful" organization that it is gave me a great deal of information and I was able to find a doctor. ok by now Joshua should be doing certain things developmentally and he is not so we enter round two of the (athena is only one person and matt has to support the family and works 50+ hours a week as a nurse side)one kid at a time and Josh is more "needy" than you sorry son go stay with grandma for two months( he didn't mind lots of junk food, video games, and no housework he thought he was in heaven at grandma's house). Josh was diagnosed and I handed him to my husband and dove into more research about Autism. DAN! (the great organization[NOT]) was right there to lure me into their camp. So I picked up both my sons and hauled them off to one of those doctors that I found through DAN! and he tested them and me. The whole process was expensive, time consuming, and unneccessary. The final stement he made to me in his office was, "Mrs. Blakely, I can find no evidence that you or Sidney have any mercury toxicity. [Here he goes into explaining all the test results and what they mean for 20 minutes]." Then he moves on to Joshua. Now Joshua had been diagnosed with Autism and so he had to make some kind of finding because Autism doesn't exist it is all mercury poisoning, right? [NOT] So, what I hear out of his mouth is that he feels (in all his infinite wisdom) that the diagnosis given to Joshua might be somewhat inaccurate [30 minute explanation of brain injury and Autistic behaviors and the inaccuracy of psychiatry]. He tells me that josh is brain injured and therefore not autistic which is why he could find no evidence of mercury poisoning (or any other heavy metal). He did recommend that i do a few tings to protect Josh's "fragile nature" but did little to offer any hope of recovery. Well he had not lost me. Josh did have issues at birth and so maybe he was right. I could live with that. Sid's tics always lessened when at my mother's house so we decided it was either environmental to our house or manipulative to getting out of helping around the house(they did seem to get worse when he was asked to clean his room) then along came Charity. Now by this time I was entrenched. I was sure this whole vaccine thing was real. Let me back up and say that joshua's immunizations were delayed due to his prematurity and he was not given his first shot until after we had made the appointment to get him check out developmentally so he had problems before immunizations and we paid to have single dose immunizations for him because he was fragile. Now on to Charity. You see she is the one that ripped me out of the biomed curebie camp not my boys. Charity was living in a house that had been gone over with a fine tooth comb. My husband called me a fanatic, my mother thought I had lost my mind, and my friends were afraid to come to my house because I might do God only knows what to them to see if they were bringing in anything to contaminate the "bubble" I was creating for myself during my pregnancy with Charity.(make note of the perseverating behaviors)
Charity was born and everything was great. She appeared to develop normally up to a point. the first thing she did that was just like the other kids was pull up to a standing position before she could sit up and cruise around a table without ever having crawled. My heart sunk when that was accompanied by her not babbling.
I decided to wait and see. Maybe this was nothing. Things did not get better. Finally, I went to the DAN! doctor and made an appointment for her to be evaluated for Autism at the developmental pediatrician. DAN! doctor said she is fine but you might want to try a few things to support her "delicacy" (she was a sweet little thing). We did everything we could through biomed. During this process Charity was finally diagnosed after seeing three different people. All of them diagnosed her but each strongly recommended the other one see her to verify it since she was a girl. So we went through that. By this time she is 22 months old, never had a vaccine, and is not mercury toxic, never had oxygen deprivation, and never had a head injury. However, she is Autistic. Again the internet is my friend. It was then I really studied Leo Kanner. Kanner always thought Autism was genetic. the parents of his kids were described in his reports and they are so obviously autistic that it is pathetic. Asperger never formally evaluated his parnts but commented that the parents dispalyed oddities of their own. And in 1926 Ewa Ssuchareva described a condition identical to what Asperger described and noted that the parents of the children were a bit odd. Now here is the interesting point Ssuchareva's paper was published in 1926 in the USSR. That is two years before the Bundaberg, Queensland, Australia disaster that caused Eli Lily to put Thimerosal into vaccines. So how in the heck did a substance create a condition in kids that were never exposed to it two years before the need for it existed and 4 years before it was actually implemented? I am still waiting on an answer about that one from the anti-vaxxers. Now don't get me wrong. You know all those nasty littel co-morbid medical problems that Autistic kids are more bothered by than NT kids. You should treat those. mB12 is a good thing. I personally would not give my kid the shots but sprays and sub-lingual tablets not a problem. My only problem with the anti-vaxxers is that you totally discoutn the concept that that your child may be genetically Autistic and that the reason the child doesn't get rid of heavy metals well (assuming your kid is toxic which I will not debate you over because I respect your doctor enough to trust his testing results and you as parents enough to know that you are doing what you believe is best for your kid)is because of the Autism and not the other way around. My kids are Autistic and have been proven to not be mercury toxic. Our Autism is genetic. I lost a son to suicide because of the strength of his perseverations. I actually have 8 children, 4 of whom are adults. Of those four, three are parents. One child is deceased. Had I known then as much as I know now my son would not be dead. I have only one goal or agenda. I want to stop the fighting between all the people affected by Autism so that the mother out there that has a son like mine can hear the message that she can prevent her son from killing himself by giving him the tools he needs to feel good about himself just the way he is. It is not important HOW he became that way. It is only important that he understands who he is and how to live with it. In January of this year Nikki Bacharach killed herself. She had Aspergers and like my son could not cope. I am more concerned with teaching people how to cope than worrying about what causes Autism. I have all the evidence I need to know that not all Autism (if any) is caused by mercury poisoning. Maybe your kids are poisoned so maybe they are not really Autistic. So treat them, cure them, but do not assume because your kid is mercury poisoned and not actually Autistic that all kids with a diagnosis are mercury poisoned. That is all I am asking from you and the rest of your group. Stop the fighting. Post you child's symptoms, treatments, and progress. Let people make their own deciaions. Stop assuming that parents are to stupid to evaluate the information. If they wasnt to take their kids and have them tested and then decide from their what they are going to do great. If they want to look in the mirror and see their own perseverations and go get diagnosed themselves great. If like philcommander they want to treat the medical symptoms with biomed and acknowledge that the quirkiness in theri kids is Autism, great. Give the parents credit for loving their kids enough to do what they think is best for their child. Either way the perception of our kids whether mercury poisioned autiatic,genetically autistic, or brain damaged autistic by society is horrible and we only have the find a genetic precursor so we can allow mothers to abort their "potentially autistic" kids people talking to the government because we can't get along enough to get any help from the government for service, biomed treaments, or any other alternative therapies. Whether you like her or not Amanda Baggs is a person I use as an example here. Set aside your anger and disgust for 5 seconds and hear me out. She has a asthma and so she was told to get rid of her cat. The cat is a service animal that helps her calm herself. She needs assistance with environmental things like air filters and such in order for her to keep her cat. These are the kinds of things, along with financial support for families that desire to try biomed, needs to be available. We are all so busy fighting each other that the eugenics movement has become the only voice the government is hearing. And as was pointed out on one of your other posts NOBODY likes Autism speaks. We may have different reasons for hating them but in that we have common ground and we need to use that as the first step to getting our voices heard by the government. As far as the remark about me being a christschool clone, well thank you very much. I wish I was as talented as he is but unfortunately I am not. I have my own talents but I do not hold a candle to him. Also I am totally jealous of his computer. The geek in me drools(no this is not an autistic behavior it is pure unadulterated lust) over it every time I see it. The "Four Monitor MAC" is every graphic designer's dream. Yes my name is Athena and I have tried for most of my life to honor that name. Athena was the Greek Goddess of Wisdom. She was sometimes considered the Goddess of War. This was because she worked with her brother Ares, the God of War. Now for all his strength and power as a warrior he was a lousy strategist. Athena brought wisdom a strategy to the "war room" and that is my goal here. If we do not stop fighting among ourselves we will be living in a world where more kids are getting killed just because they have the "potential" to be different.

Googlybear said...

OK, Athena, I think I misjudged you on some counts. I am going to try to keep this short and hit all the points I want to hit without cutting and pasting remarks from your post.

First, I am sorry about your son. That had to be horribly painful and I admire you wanting to raise people's self esteem and ability to live with their disabilities regardless of cause, that is a noble goal.

Second, I think you are more balanced on the biomed thing than I originally thought. As someone who was already into alternative medicine, as I was, it was probably a comfortable fit to seek natural treatments and such. I will say that I greatly resent the way the neurodiversity movment automatically decries anything biomed or treatment wise. I think they do not see reality on the issue.

Third, yes, autism is genetic but I think also has environmental causes. I have already admitted on here or on Joeker's blog, Blog of Many Trades, that I have some spectrum issue, so I guess that makes me "shadowed". My husband is also, but we are both "NT". I found it interesting that your children didn't crawl. My ASD dd never went through the crawling stage. She went from rolling to pulling up on furniture and learned to crawl later or course, but by then was on the way to walking. So maybe there is something developmental there, very curious. My daughter is heavy metal toxic. I believe, due to my personal history and my mothers, that there is a genetic issue that causes mental illnesses and spectrum issues in our family. We have both.

Fourth, this is all I am going to say about Christschool and I would like an answer from one of his supporters, everyone has been mum so far. He has a video out about HBOT and how horrible it is. He uses pictures of a little girl named Grace Kenzit in his video to prove how tortured children are by HBOT, not that she looked particularly tortured. Grace has a mitochondrial defect and was not expected to live. HBOT saved, and continues to save her life. Do you think it is kind of him to spin doctor the story of a very ill child for his own devices? Also, do you think a parent should sit their child in front of the camera and tell them to stim for the camera and try to force them to stim when they don't want to? he does that too. I can never ever join forces with a monster parent like that, I don't care if he is NT or autistic, his methods are exploitative.

You I could live with.

Anonymous said...


in your lengthy post you addressed everybody involved and gave wonderful thought provoking thought...

"Whether you like her or not Amanda Baggs is a person I use as an example here. Set aside your anger and disgust for 5 seconds and hear me out."

...all but for one you left out...
what about the person Amanda's taken her story from and then silenced?

You forgot to mention that person.
Its kind've hard to feel any sympathy for Baggs when you really do think about everybody

Seems like you didn't.

spydyee said...

This is in response to the anon that said I had no feelings for Amanda. I respect Amanda greatly. I was addressing the potential attacks on my reference to her by people who frequently post to this blog that call her disgusting and other names. I anticipated crap from them and wanted them to read what I had to say without their prejudices making them skip my writing completely. If you read it carefully you will see that and if you frequently visit this blog you will find that Amanda it a target of a great deal of ridicule. I know some people have feelings of disgust directed toward her. Many will simply shut down mentally rather than continue to listen. If we do not open a dialog we will never have peace.

to googlybear

When I speak of not curing autism I am talking about not curing the "brain difference" part. I think every parent has to make individual decisions about treating the many co-morbid issues to which our children are more susceptible. I do not classify the physical ailments that many of our children suffer with as an actual part of Autism. Wherever they come from they are not Autism. They are physical ailments that are more frequently manifested in Autistic children for whatever reason. One reason I have is that they are not necessarily more frequent in our kids but they are more noticeable in our kids. This is because the most common co-morbid issue with autistics is Sensory Integration Dysfunction (disorder). They hurt more or less depending on the child than NT kids do. What an NT kid might whine about our children could ignore totally or have a screaming meltdown over. When your child is screaming and writhing in pain you as a parent are going to do something even if no one believes what you are doing is right. That is understandable. My point to all, is this. If there is a genetic element to this at all and they find a genetic test then the future for kids like ours is going to go down the same road as Down's has.If there is a genetic predisposition for intolerance to environmental toxins and they find it. You know what that will lead to. Eugenics is unacceptable under any circumstances. The going rate for abortions of Down's Babies diagnosed in-utero is 90%-93% world wide. Now days you can abort a fetus with club foot, cleft palate, or cleft lip. All these are correctable with surgery after birth. Eugenics is disgusting and cannot be tolerated by a civilized society. If we don't stand together that is exactly what is going to happen. If Mercury poisoning alone was the cause then everyone would get Autism. There is something different in these kids and if that difference is genetic then there is a possibility that it will be found and when it is there will be a test and the pressure will be to abort these kids. Everyone stop reading right now and look at your kid or a picture of your kid. OK, how would you feel if a doctor told you that it would be better if that kid were never brought into this world. Are you pissed off yet. I am. That is why we have to stop fighting each other and fight Autism Speaks and the eugenics movement.

On the issue of Christschool
Google the name Ares and go to wikipedia. Read the description. Then do likewise with the name Athena. When you are done you will understand why I can support him. He has an Ares personality and I liken myself unto my namesake as much as I can. I do not agree with him on every detail but I do support his mission of acceptance for our children and the end of eugenics by "legal" abortion. As far as his son and being in front of the camera I can't say much. My oldest daughter was in dance for many years and I have seen NT parents of NT kids with vid cameras in hand trying to get their kids to "perform" for the camera. He is trying to encourage parents to allow their kids stimming behaviors and that I agree with totally. They need to be safe in their homes and allowed to stim in order to relax. Now my daughter's stimming behavior we are going to have to retrain if she doesn't find a new one on her own because it is TOTALLY unacceptable. I will not discuss what it is but suffice it to say it is common in autistic females and is socially unacceptable. My little son is a light switch flipper and we have trained him to do less annoying stimming behaviors in public. We let him do light switches in HIS room ONLY at home because it is annoying to my hypersensitivity to light. As with all kids there have to be rules and boundaries but they need to make allowances for the child's need to stim.
Yes, I support christschool and I KNOW his child is both happy and healthy and safe and Most Importantly LOVED. He really is a great dad and his little man is the greatest.

Someday I will share a cute thing my daughter did while watching Jr.s monkeys jumping on the bed video for about the 50th time.

Maybe christschool's methods are a little rough around the edges but his heart is in the right place. He is genuinely concerned about the long term effects of this entire issue as am I and many others who do not see themselves as defective. We do not want tests that will cause innocent children to be slaughtered because they are neuro-diverse, whether you call it Autism or a "genetic predisposition for an intolerance of environmental toxins"(that is just too many words). Please go look at my newest video "My Name Is...." and keep in mind that when I use the term cure I am speaking of the genetic side of the issue not the co-morbid stuff. I think this video will better explain what I feel needs to happen here.

"Spydyee" (a nickname given to me because of my fascination with the Native American legend of Grandmother Spider and my love for the Ferrari Spyder)

Googlybear said...

Spydee, you seem to want to look at both sides, even though I am not sure I completely agree with everything you are saying. But I will put down my defensive/debate side and just talk to you a bit.

Wherever they come from they are not Autism. They are physical ailments that are more frequently manifested in Autistic children for whatever reason.

Hmmmm... Kind of like a which came first, the chicken or the egg senario. Are they autistic because of the comorbids or in spite of them. I still think there is a genetic predisposition that causes autism and the comorbids. I think it is familial. I have some of the comorbids and so does dh, but neither of us are auties or aspie. Our other children are NT with comorbids like us. It is likely that my mother was a very hf aspie with a later onset of schizophrenia. Or she may just have always been "different and eccentric" (her sister's definition) with a later onset of schizophrenia with aspie features. I'm not sure, but I do know there is a family tie to my daughters autism. I've said this before on here, my goal is to get my daughter as functioning as possible and get her problematic issues out of the way. If she remains autistic but improved to where she can be independant then I can live with that, if she becomes NT then that is the way it goes.

I also agree with you on the eugenics, and you probably know from spending any amount of time in the biomed camp, that many of us are opposed to what Autism Speaks is doing. There is alot of fear on our side that AS is taking all the available donation sources and funneling them into eugenics and away from community support, educational support, research into therapies, and you know what else. There are a few people on both sides and in the middle who could probably build a bridge.

I know CS loves his son. I'm not going to accuse a parent of not loving his child, as people on the ND side do to John. What leaves a bad taste is that CS's son is a healthy child with hf aspie. Just because his son was born this way, does not mean that CS had a special love for his child that superceded someone whose child is lfa or who has comorbids that are chronically debilitating. He seems to insinuate in his movie that if a person just loves their kid enough then these problems magically disapear. I don't think I am doing a good job of expressing the feeling I get from watching his movies. I guess you could say it is the equivalent of him saying, "nah nah, boo boo." Well, I could take my NT kids and do the same thing to him, but I feel that kind of stuff is cruel. My daughter is on the higher end of the spectrum, but she is alot worse off than his son. I think if his son was profound, severe or moderate; or had severe comorbid issues he might feel alot differently. I don't feel it is right to make someone with autism stim to fit into a mold of what autism should look like. And just because I don't like something CS does doesn't mean I will tolerate the same behavior from an NT parent with an NT child. I don't like the pagent mentality either.

I will go check out your new video.

Googlybear said...

Spydee, I watched your video "my name is..." I still don't know what your beef, I guess it is your beef too, is with Marty. I wonder though, if it is just her personality, or is it that autistic people are not allowed a personality outside of autie approved ND behavior. Your attitude kind of reminds me of religious fundamentalism, except your religion is being autistic. The part where you say, "When we rise all who sold their souls to be more appealing and all the posers who walk in our midst will finally be exposed for who and what they are." It is too much like a preacher preaching hellfire and being left behind in the end times for all those who are not toeing the religion line and in the preachers opinion, sold their soul to the devil and the antichrist. I wonder if, when you ask about all the posers in your midst being exposed, you are talking about people like Baggs and Christschool. No, of course not, because they follow your doctrine, therefore they are part of the chosen. Yet you attack any autistics who choose a different path, which means you do not support choice for autistics, unless it is within what you consider acceptable choices. Do you forget that people with autism or autistic people (thanks for that catch 22, now no matter where I go I am in danger of being a bigot for either using or not using people first language) all come from different families, have different personalities, different cultures, different attitudes shaped by different life experiences?

Your rhetoric does not integrate you into the rest of humanity, it divides you. Perhaps there are other people with autism who are not autie-centric and actually enjoy being part of all kinds of people. Your war rhetoric is off putting. You can say whatever you want, but you are going to alienate most NT's who love and support the autistics in their lives, as well as shadowed NT parents and the hf aspies who are doing biomed with their children. This is why you will fail at dialogue with people who you consider "opposing sides" but who would actually support in your endeavor against Autism Speaks and CAN.

Anonymous said...

"who would actually support in your endeavor against Autism Speaks and CAN. "

Anyone would. What have they ACTUALLY done to help people?


Googlybear said...

KG, read my post correctly before commenting. To clarify, I meant that if Spydee wants to build a bridge between ND and biomed groups to oppose Autism Speaks, then she should do so without the fanatical autistics at war against the rest of the world rhetoric. Nobody is going to want to dialogue with her if she has that us and them mentality against the people she actually wants to join her cause.

Indeed, who wouldn't want to oppose Autism Speaks. Apparently they must have some supporters if they are doing this well. I for one am all for seeing that organization taken down brick by brick.

Anonymous said...

While she's working her way through the DSM, trying to collect its every last diagnosis for herself,

here's a little blurb from Elf Goddess at Leitch's page that nearly jumped right off the page at me:

"my use of language is heavily echolalic, by necessity not by choice."

I knew it.
That'll be the excuse given, the 'out' for having parrotted and incorporating another person's life into her own

I guess you'll be coining the phrase "intellectual property echolalia" for it.

This Marty (can't recall her whole name, Marty Mart?) -- Duely noted as another statistic, yet another autistic used and/or attacked for her having committed the cardinal 'crime' of actually being an independent spirit, having gone off to 'do her own thing' -- and for ironically in the process of doing so, demonstrating this very hallmark characteristics of autism itself.

GooglyBear, I would love it if I could post under a name you're recognize and tell you this, but you understand that I can't.
I want to thank you for your consistantly making what seem to me very sharp and accurate appraisals of these situations and the people involved in them. I believe you are very bang on right in your people sizing-up skills.

As for Amanda Bagg's family?
Based on what holes we have in the image she's projecting, and that there is a direct proportion in examples that we have, the more capable of exposing her someone is, how 'strong' her response seems to be, I'd really hedge a bet and say her family are more than likely really quite terrified of her.

Googleybear I think of your recollections of people you've worked with who would pin you to the wall with a wicked glisten in their eye one moment and then are the picture of perfect innocence the next, people who can switch it on and off, cry abuse and make it look authentic, etc,

and I think of what it must be like for a family of such a person, what it must be like for people who have raised or had to live with that sort of thing and who would know that person best of all.

spydyee said...

My problem with Marty is that she wrote something that contributes to the negative perception of our precious children for the sole purpose of getting her 15 minutes of fame. She sold out to society's already poor perception of Autistics as pathetic pitiful creatures that either need to be "cured" (and I don't mean the co-morbid physical illnesses here) or institutionalized. Either way they should not be allowed to be born so we need to find a way to test for them before they are born and get rid of them. That negative perception is what leaves parents like Karen McCarron and others with this feeling of hopelessness. That is a feeling that drives parents to do the unthinkable act of killing their kids. You know if somebody attacks me I can defend myself. My kids however are vulnerable. The son I lost was picked on in school for being different. His self-esteem was constantly under attack. He had one thing that he did extremely well and when it came time to move to the next level in that activity it was denied to him and that was more than he could handle and he killed himself. The combination of his low self-esteem because none of us understood why we were different and his perseveration being stripped from him with no recourse drove him to suicide. Anytime we characterize autism as a monster that eats our children we create a sense of victimization within our children. Victims do not rise to greatness. Survivors do. People who like who they are rise to greatness. Society's perceptions determine the limitations that will be placed on our children. We autistic adults have to be responsible for what we do to influence society's perception of the autistic children that will walk the trail we clear for them. Some say Marty is not Autistic just as some say Amanda is not Autistic. I am not going to enter that debate. I am only going to say that all Autistic Adults have a responsibility to make this world a better place for the autistics of future generations. If this all sounds a little preachy well it is. It is a modified version of the language and rhetoric of two of my favorite people. Mohandas "Mahatma" Ghandi and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
If Marty is Autistic (personally I believe she is because the behaviors some say she does that they can't do are behaviors that I can do and I am diagnosed and have the papers to prove it and am willing to show them to anyone that walks up to my door and asks to see them) then she sold out to the negative image the media thrives on. If she is not autistic then she is a poser and eventually when the perceptions of Autistics change and we are acknowledged as being the capable people that we are she will be exposed for who and what she is. That perception holds true for anyone and I do mean anyone that is not doing what they need to be doing or are not who they say they are. It is historical fact. It happened in the movement that Ghandi led. However, another good lesson from Ghandi is the lesson of Pakistan and India. The reason they are two different countries rather than one country is because two very different groups populated each country. However they were one country for a long time under British rule. The two groups fought among themselves and the English were able to rule over them because they could not get along. Ghandi reasoned with both sides, brought them together, got the English out and when it was all over one group formed Pakistan and the other remained in India. Does this scenario seem even vaguely familiar to anyone here. Both groups in India wanted the English to not be in control so they set aside their personal and philosophical differences to battle a common enemy. When it was over they went their separate ways but with a much deeper respect for one another. However, there were people in Ghandi's group that for whatever reasons did things to undermine the cause. Some may have been people sympathetic to the English while others may have just wanted attention for themselves. Either way they did harm to the cause and some of them came close to wrecking the peace completely. It was never intended that Pakistan become a separate country in Ghandi's eyes. He hoped that the two groups would be able to set aside their differences and live in peace together. That did not happen. The reason it did not was because of misunderstandings and misconceptions that were fueled by the "posers" within the groups (both groups) that had formed an agenda of their own separate from either individual group or the joint mission. Both groups soon rooted them out but the damage was already done and so they split the country. My point in all this is that like the two groups in India we have a common enemy. We do not have to agree on everything. If all you got out of the video was the part about Marty that I wrote in the description then you missed the whole point. Yes I did it to speak to her and what she wrote that was so negative. But the point was to invite every person regardless of their perceptions that believes that Autism Speaks does not speak for them or their Autistic Kids to join together to "Combat Autism Speaks" before one more child dies at the hands of a parent that listens to Allison Tepper Singer talk about murdering Jodi or they find the "genetic" issue that predisposes our kids to susceptibility to environmental toxins or autism or whatever you want to call it and uses that to find a way to kill thousands of kids before they are even born. If we don't bury the hatchet somewhere other than in each other's backs and get rid of them they are going to bury one in our heads! I see all this fighting spirit on both sides of the fence can we just focus that on the common enemy and not on each other.

spydyee said...

googly the opposing sides concept comes from where we have all been up to now not where we can or should be in the future.
The concept is that just as I am a mix of people who once fought against one another, which at times can lead to mixed loyalties when divisive situations arise, our children's children will find themselves descendants of these different groups. The question is what kind of society do we want them to live in when we are gone. If we work together to change society's perception of Autistics and to end the reign of the eugenecists then regardless of our arguments of the past and our differing opinions we will leave our children a better world to live in. We will keep them from being murdered jsut for being Autistic. We can help each other leave them a less toxic world so their sensitivities are not aggravated. Maybe we can get the frickin' fluorescent lights that cause all my kids problems because of their hypersensitive vision they can see the constant flickering in the "good" fluorescent lights and when one is going bad my son Josh will nearly have a melt-down because not only does he see the flicker (most people can see it then) but the hum drives him crazy (not to mention the fact that they put off mercury vapors). There are radicals among the bio-med group and radicals among the ND and we can't throw them out like the baby with the bath water. Many of them wee the ones to step up to the plate and take the flak while the more moderate of us (like myself) tended to take a back seat and let them drive. Now that we ahve a common enemy and want to discuss coming together to fight them we moderates need to drive the bus for a while and we may find them a little reluctant to release the keys. I respect that. I admire the leaders and the warriors that are out their trying to do what they believe is best for the kids. Just because we (the respective collective voices) do not agree on all points does not mean that we are not doing what we do out of love for the children. I do not hear bio-med parents talking about wanting to kill their kids. I have never heard that out of the mouth of any bio-med parent. Now give you guys needles loaded with mercury and live viral vaccines and the doctors from the CDC tied to chairs then I am not sure what you would do and I am afraid that I might be there as your cheerleader while you injected those idiots with the same levels (body weight adjusted) of mercury and live viruses that they allowed to be injected in to your kids. The short and skinny of the point of the video is
1. A call to arms in both the ND community and the Bio-Med community against Autism Speaks and the desolation created in the hearts and minds of young people and parents because of the views of society.
2. A request to both communities to please allow me the opportunity to remove the fence post that is jammed up my butt by helping me remove the fence between us. TRANSLATION: Can we all please stop calling each other names and fighting among ourselves long enough to write a new "Autism Language Dictionary" and open a dialog that might lead to a peace between us so that we are better prepared to fight our common enemy.

3. Can we all agree that we want our children to be accepted for who they are and treated fairly without regard to how they got where they are or whether we choose to treat or not treat any part of what either group defines as Autism.

4. Can we agree that any person whether autistic or not that says, writes, or presents in any way to the general public an image of Autistics as pathetic, incompetent, ignorant, or subhuman is not friendly to the cause of building a better place for our children and can be called on the carpet by any member of the coalition.

If we can begin by seeing these four items as a workable situation then we can move to acting on each of the four items individually. We can set goals and objectives within those goals. This will allow us to build a strong coalition.

Fore Sam said...

Spydyee, There is no chance of finding common ground between ND's and sane people until the likes of Seidel, Joseph, Leitch and a few others are cast out.

Googlybear said...

GooglyBear, I would love it if I could post under a name you're recognize and tell you this, but you understand that I can't.

You don't need to give a name to your posts. Those of us who have come to know you here recognize your "voice".

what it must be like for people who have raised or had to live with that sort of thing and who would know that person best of all.

It is scary. I have felt in danger of my life from both my sister and my mother on more than one occasion. One night my sister threatened me, basically held me and my baby hostage in my kitchen for hours with an ice pick while my husband slept upstairs. She convinced one of her friends that I was being a maniac and could they come and get her. The second she walked out the door, I locked it and called the cops. She was so insane acting, her friend took one look at her and drove off without her. When she saw the cop cars coming, she smoothed her hair and walked casually up the street. So calm was she when she told them she didn't know who lived in that (my) house she was just out for a morning stroll. They didn't detain her. My mother was the same way. It is frightening for a child, it is frightening for an adult. It is so stressful and disruptive to ones life, that after awhile it doesn't matter how much you love them, they have sucked so much out of you there is nothing left to give anymore. My sister is the kind of person, that she could beat me into an empty in every way possible- emotionally, physically, financially- and still scream in my face that I never do anything for her and I don't love her. IF this is how Baggs was with her family, then they are probably happy she has found something to occupy herself and just want to stay out of it altogether.

BTW, thank you for the compliments.

spydyee said...

you are not helping by implying from your remark that I am also insane because I am a supporter of neuro-diversity and therefore fall into the category of ND.
this is an example of the type of divisive language that both sides needs to move away from
I have not taken offense to you implying that I am insane because the cause is more important to me than that insignificant tripe. However, if we are to have dialog we have to stop doing that to each other. Yes, I agree that some of the zealots on both sides may fall by the wayside. However, if they do it will be by their choice. Any zealot that is unwilling to work together for the common good is welcome to leave regardless of which community they say they associate themselves with. The kids are the most important thing not the egos of the individual adults. I would imagine that Leitch and all of them would say the same thing about you and some others. The point is that we focus on the common enemy rather than our individual perspectives on what "Autism" or "mercury poisoning" or "a genetic predisposition toward an inability to tolerate environmental toxins" or whatever you want to call it is caused by, is aggravated by, or who it is inherited from. All that is going to irrelevant when the government bans your treatments because the eugenicists convince them that your doctors are dangerous and if there is ANY genetic link including the inability to tolerate environmental toxins one then our kids will have doctors pressuring them to abort their kids because of the possibility that they might be born too "defective" to tolerate the disgustingly toxic world we are living in 20 years from now.
I don't want that and I just don't believe that someone as passionate as you about cleaning up the mercury our children are exposed to wants that for our children either. You see I have faith that all the rage I see in you is driven by the intense love for a child that you believe was harmed. That is something that I respect and admire. It is something that should be recognized and respected by everyone. Anger is a viable emotion in this situation. All I am asking you to do is direct it where it will do the most good for our kids. Direct it where you will make a real difference. Yelling at the ND community because they have chosen to not use bio-medical interventions and ABA therapy with their children is as much a waste of your energy as it is for the ND community to yell at you to stop doing something that you are seeing progress with in your child.
Meanwhile the eugenicists are trying to find a way to get rid of all of us.

Fore Sam said...

Spydyee, I don't care what the ND's do with their kids.
They are, and always have been, all about knocking any person who tries to cure autism. Go read Seidel's blog and tell me she gives a rats' ass about anyone with autism. All she cares about is defending drug companies. Same thing with Joseph, Kevin, Estee Klar, Prometheus, and others.
Giving up on biomed is one thing, although I don't agree with it without genetic proof that there was some other cause. That doesn't mean your only option is to hook up with the above named sadists who don't care how much kids suffer as long as Pharma doesn't have to pay for the damage they caused.
The bashing of ND's that you see here is in response to them not minding their own business. While we try to help parents learn how to help poisoned kids, they run around like crazed bipolar psycho's telling everyone they can that chelation is akin to voodoo in spite of the fact that it HAS cured lots of kids. Where's the sanity in that? Where's the sanity in wanting to associate with it?

Googlybear said...


Sometimes you sound moderate and sometimes you do not. I probably sound the same way to you, so criticizing it would be hypocritical.

I think there does need to be some kind of collective action to take down Autism Speaks. That I admit, but what I am afraid of is that biomed interventions will get lumped in with the eugenics, and thrown out summarily. I don't want to see that. I'd rather see a sane approach towards biomed, where each child is taken as an individual and biomedical interventions that work are incorporated into mainstream medicine so they are more available and affordable to the parents whose children need them. It would also be nice if mainstream medicine would start considering less dangerous solutions to comorbids like ADHD. My dd's has had pediatricians who have wanted to put her on Ritalin and Prozac. But they never suggested diet modification and simple nutritional supplements like cod liver oil as a first line of treatment. Since removing gluten or food preservatives is much less invasive than trying a drug with potential bad side effects, it would be nice if these things were advised to parents first. From my work in the field, and I haven't been in the field in almost a decade, but there were serious issues that needed to be addressed in group homes and independant living situations, one of which is better funding so there is less staff turnover, less abuse due to more quality workers and more consistency. That is just one issue facing adults. Meaningful employment that utilizes their unique skills and how to sell it to employers is another major issue. I would love to see real programs in which autistic adults who may have social issues but be very intelligent in a certain area, are fitted with jobs that match their skill set, and perhaps kept up with by a care person until they were able to function independantly in their work, if needed. Finding gainful employment can help many autistics not have to live on the meager funds doled out by SSI and raise quality of life not only financially but self esteem wise. If you want autism to be taken seriously and treated equally, then unfortunately, the average person has to see it positively not just be told about the positives. Those are some things that I think about when I imagine my daughter getting older. My daughter is a computer and graphics whiz, very creative. I would love to see her be able to follow her dream instead of being relegated to a bagger job. Well, I am off on a tangent.

The logistics of biomed parents working with ND's is this. Let's say hypothetically I had to sit down at a table with Christschool. He already would be assuming that I hate my kid and just ignore her except for when I am shoving a bunch of pills down her throat. Which is not an accurate picture, but how would I or someone like me work with someone like Christschool in a constructive manner?

Googlybear said...

The bashing of ND's that you see here is in response to them not minding their own business. While we try to help parents learn how to help poisoned kids, they run around like crazed bipolar psycho's telling everyone they can that chelation is akin to voodoo in spite of the fact that it HAS cured lots of kids.

Yes, what he said. We are chelating our daughter. After all the hoopla and hype from ND, it really is a pretty mundane experience. What I find ironic, is that while I have heard ND's claim they are proud that they never held their child down and forced chelation on them (which is not an accurate picture in many cases), they are pro vaccination which means unless they have an unusually cooperative child, they held their kids down to get vaccinated by force. They did what they felt was in their child's best interests, but won't extend the same courtesy our way.

spydyee said...

ok I realize that there are extremists everywhere and I think you realize that too. Now I have not as of this moment had an opportunity to address these issues with some of them so I Will Not go on record saying that I can persuade them to find a middle ground. I am asking you and googly and any others that are here if there is a chance of finding middle ground with you. All I ask of you is that you allow them to retain their dignity and if they come to the table with an open mind and without attacking you and your beliefs then you come to the table with an open mind without attacking them for their beliefs. One of the biggest fears that has been addressed to me is that the many in the ND community are afraid of being forced to treat their children because some judge decides that it is mercury poisoning in all kids and requires it or that some insurance company will not pay for other assistive devices unless they chelate their kids first. Another fear is that these treatments will be forced on non-verbal adults without their consent. Now I know the bio-med community would like to have financial support for your choices but the ND community should not have to be treated or have their kids treated against their will. That concern can, in my opinion, be addressed best by the support of the bio-med community making it clear that they support choice for parents and do condone parents being forced to treat their children. The ND community must then reconcile itself to the concept that parents have the final say in what is in the best interest of their child until they do something to endanger the child as decided by a judge and social services not by anyone else's standards or beliefs. Now I know that the children that have died from chelation had improper chelating agents used on them. I know the doctors that have been involved with the two chelation deaths were not certified by DAN! and were not following the DAN! protocol when the deaths occurred. I am not sure that everyone in the ND community knows that but as I stated earlier I have not had a chance to open a dialog with them yet. The reason that I do not put myself in either camp is because I have a fencepost stuck up my butt where I got stuck while climbing back and forth because I believe that the mercury in the vaccines poisoned some children making them susceptible to the live viruses in the vaccines and the reason they were poisoned and EVERY child that was ever vaccinated was not poisoned is because the poisoned children have the inability to get rid of environmental toxins and that is a genetic difference in them from the majority of kids. There is a probability that the genetic difference in these kids is also the same difference(but at a greater level)that makes me and my kids Autistic which is why when these kids become toxic they not only exhibit the symptoms of mercury poisoning that are shared with the symptoms of autism but they exhibit enough of the other symptoms of autism to generate a diagnosis. I consider leaky gut and all the viral factors found in the children to be a co-morbid issue related to their compromised immune systems being exposed to live virus vaccines. My kids have not has these symptoms. They have had issues with yeast and neurological issues that might respond to mB12.

I have a suggestion. Off the blog, why don't you collect the real issues you feel need to be addressed in order to support the bio-med parents in their choice to treat their children. Things such as insurance coverage and so forth. make a list. Get input from the actual bio-med parents and make me list of their concerns and needs as far as support goes. Bio-med is expensive and many who would like to do it can't. Find them. Ask them to include their feelings and wishes. We can then look at yur group's needs and develop a presentaion regarding those needs.

When I get the ND community together (no snide comments here like I have seen on this blog)I will have them give me their needs and wishes. From there I will develop a presentation of their needs. We will review each other's presentations and develop a common presentation that everyone can live with. From there we will go after Autism Speaks and CAN and present our requests to the government. Are you willing to try this?

Anonymous said...

Spydyee, I just wanted to offer my deepest sympathy for the son you lost. No one should ever have to lose a child. Suicide is a particularly difficult type of loss. I lost my father to suicide so I can understand some of your pain. However, I have never lost a child and can only imagine the heartache you must feel. I am indeed very sorry.


spydyee said...

My daughter is a computer and graphics whiz, very creative. I would love to see her be able to follow her dream instead of being relegated to a bagger job. Well, I am off on a tangent.

No googly you are not on a tangent yo are on track.

The "waffling" you may here in me is this frickin' fence post that is stuck up my butt.

to me it is real simple

the SERENITY to accept the things I cannot change

1. my kid's genetics
2. the price of gasoline
3. other people

the COURAGE to change the things I can

1. my perceptions about my kid
2. the level and direction of my advocacy
3. my view of myself and my relationship with my creator


the WISDOM to know the difference.

I cannot change you or christschool or anyone else. All I can say is that I am going to war with Autism Speaks and I am going to the government to get them to support more choices and better choices for autistics and parents of autistic kids. You can join with me or not. I hope you and the bio-med community will join the good fight against Autism Speaks and for our kids. I hope the ND community joins in too. What cannot happen in the fight I am leading is fighting in the ranks so everyone that comes on board will have to be willing to work together for the same cause which will be defined before we get out into the fight. I asked in a previous post what the bio-med community wants. If you tell me that then I will present your wishes because even if I have no supporters then I will do it alone! Either way I know what I have to do!

spydyee said...

Autism A Case For Environment
PhilCommander2 at youtube

This is where I am plain and simple.
I want the arguing, name calling and crap to stop and this to be the mantra of the collective. Phil told me he thought that I would like this video. I don't just like it


spydyee said...

Autism A Case For Genetics

Part two of the coalition perspective the way I see it.

Googlybear said...


I am all for parent choice in treating their children. When we start mandating treatments, we get into the sticky wicket we are in with vaccines. In which there are parents who know that their child can not handle another vaccine, but they can not prove it equivocally or they can not find a pediatrician with the balls to hand out a medical waiver.

I think biomedical interventions should be studied, understood by mainstream doctors, paid for by insurance and presented as an option to parents much as neuroleptics and antidepressants are now presented as options to parents. There is no one size fits all for any treatment. I don't picture anyone holding anyone down or their children down and forcing chelation on them. If you think about it, there are very few treatments that people are forced to endure via court order.

As for low functioning autistics in group homes or institutions, I am surprised that ND is worried about chelation being forced on them, when most group home/institution residents have a handful of drugs forced on them daily. Trust me, chelation is the least of their problems. Besides, if it was found that chelation or MB12 helped autistic adults, and the person was proven via testing to be metal toxic or need MB12, what would be the harm in trying to improve their functioning level. In my opinion, the ND movement forgets about lfa's who are in insitutional settings until it is convenient, and then forgets them again.

I do agree with your take on autism, genetic issues and how biomed can fit in. I don't think everyone in the ND community understands why those two deaths with chelation occured or they do understand and use the stories for sensational purposes. The ironic thing is that medical mistakes occur at a much larger rate than this in hospitals every day. My opinion is that ND needs to stop having knee jerk reactions to every biomed intervention and start considering whether they work or not. Is it really a fear that biomed will be forced on them or their children with side effects, or is it a fear that they will recover from autism. I really, honestly can not understand how a parent, NT or autistic, could not want their child to recover. So the mindset I do not understand, but I could join with parents and autistics who are fighting against autism speaks and fighting for better services.

spydyee said...

That is all I ask. With regards to the other meds shoved down institutionalized autistics I hate them too but I am not sure exactly how to fight that battle YET. Believe me it is a serious issue to me as the great niece of a woman that was mistreated in an institution I have it close to my heart and will go there eventually. I am one person and this issue with Autism Speaks takes priority over all other issues with me other than being a full time mom to my Autistic Kids! She was supposedly mildly schizophrenic but the doctors reported that she did not respond like a "normal" schizophrenic to insulin therapy. What this means based on all the other information in her medical records was that she was Autistic actually today they would call it PDD-NOS leaning toward Asperger's co-morbid with clinical depression. Her lack of educational opportunities made it hard to determine if she had significant communication impairment or not. She had a lot of the symptoms of Kanner's but without a definitive determination regarding communication she would be diagnosed PDD-NOS. SHe was institutionalized from about 22 years old, after a suicide/murder attempt, for the rest of her life. She tried to jump off a bridge with her two baby boys in her arms. No voices told her to do it she was trying to get away from her husband which she said did "evil" things to her and the children. I have no idea what that was. But even after they determined that she did not respond like other schizophrenics to insulin and shock therapy they continued to do it. Eventually they moved on electro-shock therapy. I have no love for institutions. They are the reason I preach acceptance and modration. They are the extremists not the ND community or the Bio-Med community. As to why some people do not want to treat their children. There is nothing to treat in mine. They are not toxic and have been tested by DAN! approved doctors. I have been giving them cB12 because they are vegetarians. I am changing to mB12 in spray form because mB12 is more easily absorbed and I have found a vegan formula in a spray. Like I said I have no problem with anyone treating the co-morbidities associated with Autism from whatever perspective they believe the source of those co-morbidities are derived. That is a parent's decision and should remain a parent's decision. Welcome aboard the "Combating Autism Speaks" Warship. We are proud to have you.

spydyee said...

This is the blog I have set up for discussing issues surrounding the coalition.
foresam I won't continue to hijack your blog for this discussion. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to address the people on your blog. I admire your love for your child and do support your right to try to help your child in the way you see fit. May God bless you in all your efforts. You and your family will be in my prayers.

"Yes, Annelle I Pray! There I Said It!" (Steel Magnolias)
AN before any negative comments come about this remark no I will not be praying that foresam learns to accept his child as Autistic! foresam I will be praying that God will bless you and your family with what is in his plan for you. If he sees fit for your child to be "cured" then that will happen. If not then you might consider he gave you an Autistic child because you are the kind of person that will not sit idly by and let injustice reign in this world so he gave you an experience in your life in order to get a strong person to fight for what is right.

googlybear I hope to see you over there soon.

I must take a break from this fun blog and go chat with the ND group to see if I have a single person willing to join me. You know even if I don't that I will be marching to this drummer all by myself if I have to. googly it may be just me and you! but maybe not so here I go into the ND camp.

Bye For Now

Fore Sam said...

Spydyee, Why are you using MB-12 if you think your kids don't have mercury poisoning? Do you know why MB-12 helps kids?
It helps kids who have mercury interferring with methylation. It is a temporary "fix" that may allow kids to talk and gain some "attention" until all of the mercury can be removed. If a child is not mercury poisoned, MB-12 won't help at all.
Some DAN docotrs do not use the right tests to determine if a kid is mercury poisoned. Chelation challenge tests are not always useful. In fact, they camn be dangerous.
The only tests you should use to determine mercury toxicity is the porphyrin test or a hair test to check for deranged mineral transport.
Have your kids benefited from MB-12? If so, they are mercury poisoned.
The thing you miss about Neuroinsanity is that the leaders of the cult are not real people. They are experts in propaganda, they do not have autistic children, they are liars. You can not believe one word they utter. There can be no compromise worked out with these people.

Fore Sam said...

Spydee, I'm not publishing your last comment. You need to learn what Richard Deth taught us about how mercury impairs methylation.

spydyee said...

BTW foresam I am disappointed in you. I thought you knew everything about me by the time you let me post on your blog. I figured you knew I have vegetarian kids and that my 6 year old is practically a vegan because he hates the texture of cheese and milk, won't eat anything frozen so that rules out ice cream, gags on yogurt, and makes projectiles out of eggs that are not cooked to a specific texture. What mom is not going to give her kid vitamins if they don't eat a well balanced diet for whatever reasons? Please don't tell me that you believe that being a picky eater is caused by vaccines. In my house I have the 6 year old that would starve himself if he didn't like the texture or color of the food (forget him eating anything orange this kid won't even eat orange m&m's), the 4 year old that will eat anything that doesn't eat her first (literally ANYTHING), and the budding chef (watch out Gordon Ramsey) whose creations are, to say the least, interesting. I thought you knew all that so I was shocked that you had to ask why the mother of a vegitarian (predominately vegan) brood like mine would supplement with B12. I assumed that you, of all people, would also know why I would use mB12 over cB12. However, from your statements I get the impression that you believe tha bio-med community "developed" or "invented" mB12 just as a "temporary fix" before chelation can do its thing. Much to you disappointment that is not reality. My mother has been taking mB12 shots since I was 8 years old after they removed her gall bladder and her liver function decreased to the point that her ability to metabolize B12 was compromised. I am 46. That is 38 years. DAN! didn't invent mB12 they just developed a treatment that used already existing substances one of which happened to be the most easily metabolized form of vitamin B12(cobalamine) which is methylcobalamine or mB12. I have no fight with you foresam an you don't have one with me as hard as you try to pick one I am not playing this game. Luv ya Think your're a great dad. Keep up the good work and may God bless.

Googlybear said...

As to why some people do not want to treat their children. There is nothing to treat in mine. They are not toxic and have been tested by DAN! approved doctors. I have been giving them cB12 because they are vegetarians. I am changing to mB12 in spray form because mB12 is more easily absorbed

Spydee, that IS treating your children. You checked to see if metal toxicity was an issue they needed treatment for, you had the tests run and it wasn't required. Ruling things out is an important part of the process. So you are trying MB12 which is probably smart, because I do believe from my history and what I know of autism and schizophrenia; that there is a probibility that there is a familial genetic issue with absorbing B vitamins. For my daughter have ruled out viral issues and PANDAS (strep). My daughter is very metal toxic, so we are chelating. I know other people who have great results treating viruses and strep, but it wouldn't be appropriate for my daughter.

I found it interesting that you have a great aunt who was institutionalized. I also have a great aunt who was institutionalized, nobody would say why, because nobody in my mom's family actually talks about anything "unpleasant". There is alot of oddities that run in the women in my mom's side of the family. I am going to test myself and my daughter for pyroluria, it can run in the females in a family. My mother was definately diagnosed with schizophrenia, when she was evened out on medication, she was very aspie/autie in behavior. We always thought it was from the schizophrenia that didn't show up until she was 35, but her sister told me she was always "eccentric" and that my grandmother (who also had some really odd issues) was very overprotective of her her whole life. I've always thought there was a genetic link between my grandmother, great aunt, mother, my sister, myself (though admittedly I and my mother's sister are the most unaffected) and now my daughter and their/our similar but differing mental issues.

spydyee said...


I agree that it is treating them, treating them like they are children for whom God made me responsible and it would be irresponsible of me to not explore every possible way to help my child be the best possible person they can be.

spydyee said...

I am disappointed that you did not post a comment that acknowledged that environmental factors can cause demyelination and that mB12 helps the body repair that to the extent that it can. It is also the major building block in myelin to begin with. So you had a problem with me saying that WHY?
I realize that at this moment there is little known in the way of absolute fact regarding the success of actually repairing myelin sheaths because of the limited ability we have to determine in a living person whether repair is occurring or not and that there is not an absolute medical intervention to "fix" the problem. The Myelin Project is really pushing to find a way to repair damaged myelin sheaths and I am sure they will. They have already done the first transplant of Schwann cells in an MS patient. Is it so hard for you to accept that I believe my kids are genetically Autistic but that I can believe that there are children who may carry only the genetic markers for Autism and that may never have been diagnosed if they were not compromised by environmental toxins that they were more susceptible to because they had this genetic marker to begin with. Would it kill you to bury the hatchet somewhere other than in another parent of an autistic child's back. Like I said I am not the enemy you need to be concerned with. "Big brother" is watching and her name is Allison Tepper Singer and she has the ear of the likes of Hillary Clinton who stood on the floor of the senate and said that no mother should be forced to carry a severely disabled child to term. They already run a pre-screening blood test on EVERY pregnant woman in this country and in most of the world for Down's syndrome. If that test shows any abnormality they want to do an amniocentesis. If Down's is diagnosed they are counseled on how to get an abortion. They are not counseled on local Down's support groups so they can talk to parents actively raising Down's children to allow them to have a balanced perspective. they are counseled on how to get an abortion. It's coming and if I am right these kids with issues from environmental toxins will be included in their findings. Do you want your child to be in a position where a doctor is pressuring that child to abort your grandchild because that child is susceptible to environmental toxins. Let me say that I and a lot of bio-med parents realize that even if there are environmental toxins creating the autistic symptoms in some children if thimerosal alone caused autism then every single child out there that was vaccinated would have autism. Because it is a subset of children that develop Autism then it is a genetic difference in these children that make them susceptible. If there is a genetic difference in your child from the "normal or average" child then genetic research will find a way to diagnose that prenatally and then they will pressure any mother carrying such a child to abort the child.
I'm not the enemy!

Anonymous said...


I haven't fully finished reading all of your latest, but interrupting here anyway to tell you you've got my attention. I'm listening.

I have a separate and specific issue with neurodiversity and with particular participants than the biomed, etc one's you are addressing, and I wish I was able to communicate with you privately about this and get your thoughts on it.

Anyway, you have my attention, and my respect.
(as I will now with reading the rest of what you have to say)

Fore Sam said...

Spydee, One genetic difference is the APO proteins which determine whether or not the kid can get rid of mercury. These would have always been part of the genetic makeup of some people.
Since nothing ever caused autism prior to 1931, we can safely say it was the stupidity of injecting neurotoxins into people that is to blame. Who cares about any other genetic markers? That's a huge waste of effort. Just stop shooting babies up with mercury and the problem goes away.

Anonymous said...

Just stop shooting babies up with mercury and the problem goes away.

Bullshit it does, fuck wit. Go and get yourself the qualifications to be a proper scientist, then you'll see that you are living a fucking lie.


Cause Autism is here forever! Always has been!

RIP Grandpa Francis
Born June 25 1915
Died June 14 2007
Diagnosed with HFA 1994
(This post's for you!)

Fore Sam said...

Nitwit, Gramps was diagnosed at 79 years old, huh? I say he had Alzheimer's. It's no different than autism. Prove me wrong.

Googlybear said...

RIP Grandpa Francis
Born June 25 1915
Died June 14 2007
Diagnosed with HFA 1994
(This post's for you!)

First, I am sorry for the recent loss of your grandfather.

I have to second what ForeSam said. Autism isn't diagnosed in old age. Alzheimers is though. It doesn't really matter. I am of the opinion that an autism diagnosis at age 89 is relatively pointless.

Have you ever noticed how nobody ever has a direct relative (parent, grandparent, great grandparent) who was LFA? Nobody ever talks about how dad wore a diaper, was non-verbal, sat in the corner screaming, rocking, biting thier arm and lining up cars their whole life. The reason is, that there is no way that would ever happen unless the person was raped. I wonder if there is a personality type that resembles hfa. An extremely introverted person with a very type A personality might be mistaken for being a high functioning aspie.

Lisa said...

Phil you are so funny. You keep me in stitches! Don't worry, nobody really feels threatened. We know that you are quite a softy and that you are merely joking. But thanks for the comic relief!

Googlybear said...

Look, look everyone death threats are being made against an organization called Generation Rescue!!! An organization that the owner of this blog is an active member of.


How come nobody is protesting this as vehemently as the 'die neurodiversity die' post???

Anonymous said...

Nitwit, Gramps was diagnosed at 79 years old, huh? I say he had Alzheimer's. It's no different than autism. Prove me wrong.

Gladly, fuck wit. Alzheimers affects the memory. Gramps memory was as sharp as ever until the day he died. He didn't die from that.

He died from a heart attack.

So don't fucking assume without a science degree!!

Googly, thank you for your condolences. I put the post here because it proves Autism wasn't "born" in 1931. Anyone can be diagnosed with Autism at any time. Gramps got away with it because according to Mom he got a great wife who understood his quirks and he didn't need to be social outside the family. When a cousin was diagnosed in 1994, Mum thought that Gramps should be looked at because they were so like each other.

Gramps did apparently send some time in an asylum when he was a kid. Don't know much more detail than that but it could have been LFA then. He was taken out because the doctors were cruel.

Fore Sam said...

Nitwit, If you don't have a DNA test, you have no proof. Your grandfather was just a nitwit like you.

Anonymous said...

Nitwit, If you don't have a DNA test, you have no proof. Your grandfather was just a nitwit like you.


My grandfather died just last Thursday! You want to dance on his fucking grave????? And what does a DNA test prove?? FUCK ALL!

Where's your science degree again? Which cereal pack was it on?

Anonymous said...

How come nobody is protesting this as vehemently as the 'die neurodiversity die' post???

I agree, Googly - two wrongs don't make a right.

Anonymous said...

Foresam, serious question. What does a DNA test have to do with Autism? I thought it was mercury poisoning?

Fore Sam said...

Nitwit, Since autism could never be missed, no 79 year old could ever be accurately diagnosed with it. DNA would tell us if he had fragile X or something else.

Googlybear said...

My grandfather died just last Thursday! You want to dance on his fucking grave????? And what does a DNA test prove?? FUCK ALL!

Now wait a minute, Anon, you are the one who came in here with both guns blazing; yelling bullshit, calling the blog owner a fuck wit and saying die die about an organization. Then in the same post, you post a eulogy to your recently deceased grandfather. You really can't demand sympathy and special treatment while lashing out at a bunch of unrelated people in such a rude manner. If you want to debate, leave your grandfather's recent death out of it. If you want sympathy, go post on Leicht's board, so he can use you to further bolster his reputation he destroyed last week. Or, go take some time to grieve and remember your grandfather.

Anonymous said...

Nitwit, Since autism could never be missed, no 79 year old could ever be accurately diagnosed with it.

You could, idiot, because you don't know the difference between Autism and genuine mercury poisoning. Same goes for all the quacks of the world - Kirby, Geier, Wakefield, Handley yada yada yada....

Go suck a lemon, asshat!

oldschool said...

Googlybear said...

"I wonder if there is a personality type that resembles hfa. An extremely introverted person with a very type A personality might be mistaken for being a high functioning aspie."


Regarding Alzheimer's:
Until the very last stages they can have excellent long term memory.
Granddad might have been able to discuss with remarkable clarity events of nearly a century ago
yet lack the short term to tell you what he's eaten in the last half hour or realize he's asked you who you are for the fifth time in as many minutes.

Regarding The Schizophrenias:
Catatonic, Simple, Undifferentiated could have unlikely yet viable case for misdiagnoses in favor of Childhood Schizophrenia, but a Paranoid Schizophrenia would not.

The Lilac Pilgrim said...

"Die neurodiversity die die die"


And people trust you, MR Best? I find it very difficult to understand why people like you at all if this childish temper tantrum is what you call a valid argument.

Knowing you'll probably not put my comment up, possibly because you're scared someone might agree with me and we just might have somewhat of a mature debate on our hands, I can safely suggest that just maybe you act so childishly because you're scared about your son and his autism, but unable to put this into words, you lash out at the rest of the autistic community. I hope you realise you don't need to hide behind this pseudo-masculine veil of harsh words and threats. It's just ridiculous that a grown man would behave the way you do, and it just baffles me that other scared parents would side with you and join in your horrifying tirade.

Of course I'm not saying you must agree with everything I say. Personally I don't believe in a cure, at least not a mandatory one. There are those who don't want a cure, and I doubt they would be who they were if given one. However you seem to believe in a mandatory cure, but pull out the whole "no-one said you had to have one" when you have no arguments left, usually accompanied by profanities a little below your years.

What I do want you to do is just try to understand where the neurodiverse group are coming from. Something I doubt you've ever tried to comprehend. Perhaps because you spend too much time hiding from your fears, unable to communicate them.

Anonymous said...

It was another poster to his website
-- not john best/Fore Sam at all --
who said

"Die neurodiversity die die die"

I should know,
I am the one who said it.