Tuesday, August 28, 2007

Autism, Vaccination and Neurodiversity - A Timeline Part 3: Response to Donna Williams

Donna Williams wrote...

"I have NEVER had a diagnosis of Multiple Personality Disorder. An unqualified sociology professor gave this OPINION of me in 1994 based on his memories of me in obligatory 30 minute private 1-1 office appointments as my thesis supervisor to discuss my thesis (10 in all)."

I don't think there is any doubt that you have had multiple personalities. Amanda Baggs who should know, says you do. She says on her blog, "Donna Williams and some others have had personas they used in order to pass".

Your book Nobody Nowhere is listed under Healthy Multiplicity Titles at Astreas Bookstore.

Also, it is quite clear from your publishers that you had at least two different personas while you were growing up - Carol and Willie.

You also say on your website here that you lived your "first twenty-five years as three people- a male (Willie), a female (Carol) and me (Donna)."

And yet you claim you have never had a diagnosis of MPD or DID.

I'm quite willing to change (and have changed) the wording of my post, but it won't alter the fact that by your own words you lived for 25 years as three different people. And to a layperson, and I dare say psychiatric professionals, that means you had Multiple Personality Disorder.


"Ask yourself why a sociology professor would have got MPD like behaviour from someone with a long term background of abuse when obliging them to have 1-1 in their office in order to pass the course. It ain't rocket science... "

Are you accusing Dr Chris Eipper of LaTrobe University of impropriety, Donna? You have on a number of occasions in the past referred to him as "a stalker", but here you are giving the distinct impression that his alleged stalking of you isn't his only crime.

This reminds me very much of Amanda Baggs accusing her once close schoolfriend Daniel Drucker of being a stalker of disabled women. I wonder how these men feel when they see themselves being publicly maligned, and their reputations brought into question online for all the world to see, and yet they are not given the chance to defend themselves against such terrible accusations.

"As for formal diagnosis, I was assessed at age 2 as psychotic in 1965 at a private hospital called St Elmo's in Brunswick, Victoria. This was after admission for appearing deaf, no pain response, bruising when touched (leukemia was queried) and coughing up blood. My parents were reassured I was not deaf and didn't have leukemia but was psychotic."

You say, “assessed at age 2 as psychotic”, not diagnosed with ‘psychosis’. I believe you chose your words carefully, Donna. There is a world of difference between having psychotic behaviour and being diagnosed with psychosis, just as there is a world of difference between having autistic behaviour and actually being “diagnosed with autism”.

I don’t understand how the "bruising when touched" could have been the result of psychotic behaviour. Surely, the bruises were either the result of a medical problem which would have needed thorough investigation and treatment, or they would have been indicative of physical abuse.

Could it have been familial abuse, Donna? I read your first book in 1995, and the horrendous descriptions of your early life at the hands of your abusive and neglectful parents. And I pitied you.

That is why I continue to wonder if your autistic behaviours sprang from your turbulent past. It occurs to me that your life could have been very similar to the lives of the deprived, abused and emotionally disturbed children described by both Dr Bartak and Michael Rutter, whose autistic behaviours disappeared when they were moved to caring and supportive environments, or the children recovered completely with “reasonable foster care”.

So much for medical professionals who would have us believe that autism is a mysterious, genetic, and incurable disorder. And so much for Neurodiversity activists who claim that all autism is genetic, incurable, and life-long.

I guess you already know there are children being diagnosed today with autism who actually have Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). To give such children an autism diagnosis is grossly unfair to parents who are devoted to their children and have given them all the love and care in the world. Should we return to the days of Bettelheim and his theory of “refrigerator mothers”? Or Virginia Axline? As if a few hours of Play Therapy could turn a child like Dibs into a genius!
Having first read Dibs in the 70s, I was horrified to discover that this work of fiction is still being reprinted - and, of all things, has become a school textbook!

"In late childhood I read on the teacher's student roll next to my name "Donna Williams is a disturbed child". This was in 1974, I was 11. This was my 2nd diagnosis and based on being studied by the Psych and Guidance service to the school."

Why do you count this description in a teacher’s roll book as an official diagnosis, and other descriptions as opinions? Do you doubt its accuracy?

You have also been described and identified as a person with Multiple Personality Disorder. Why then do you totally discount MPD/DID, when to the average layperson who has watched movies like ‘The Three Faces of Eve’, and then reads that you have lived as three people for twenty-five years, "Dissociative Identity Disorder" might very easily spring to their minds. Is there another disorder in the DSM that would be a better ‘fit’?

”I was diagnosed with autism in my 20s in 1991.”

Did Dr Bartak actually diagnose you with autism, after the test he gave you, or did he describe you as autistic? You have often written, “I was diagnosed as autistic”, but “autistic” to me is a description, not a diagnosis.

You might already be aware that Thomas McKean, who knew you very well for some years, accused you of being a fraud in a message he wrote to a support group in 1998, but it occurs to me that he might have been trying to get his own back after you had openly questioned his “autism” diagnosis in a letter to MAAP in 1995. I want to make it clear to others that you did not question that he was autistic, only that he might have been misdiagnosed with autism. You said, “it is true that many autistics are misdiagnosed and, therefore, it is just as potentially true that schizophrenics (and people with other non-autistic disabilities including some with PDD (NOS), are misdiagnosed as autistic.”

That’s a very important quote from you, Donna, because this statement is as true today as it was back in 1995, and I couldn’t agree with you more. There is a huge difference between being autistic and having autism, isn’t there? And today everyone with a deficit in what is considered to be 'normal' socialization, for whatever reason, is being shoved under the "Autistic" umbrella. Speech delayed toddlers for instance - and adult schizophrenics.

I believe that this problem has become far, far worse in the 2000s, because of the number of self-identifying “autistics” who, having clicked the ‘right’ set of answers in the Aspie online quizzes think they are autistic, have autism and get an identity for themselves with Neurodiversity. Once they’ve joined the Club, they start disseminating anti-treatment, anti-cure propaganda.

What appals me most is that these people, and many of them appear to be very young and naive, some of them in their early teens, are identifying with a brand new “culture”. They haven’t even been misdiagnosed by a psychiatrist, they are self-diagnosed, and they look down on low-functioning autistics, and shun them. Donna, does this appal you as much as it appals me?

I am mentioning fraud because it seems to me that everyone who is 'someone' has been accused of fraud at some point – you, Thomas McKean, Jim Sinclair, Amanda Baggs, and others.

" Yes, my IQ was tested as under 70 in my 20s after I had a university degree.."

I don’t understand why you would want to quote your lowest score in a specific test, if that’s what you are doing. Every time you do, I wonder if you are trying to make a point to show people how impaired you really were to somehow prove you had autism and were low-functioning. An IQ of less than 70 is in the retarded range, isn’t it? And there is no way in the world that I’d believe that anyone could ever think of you as retarded, Donna. With all your skills, you are highly accomplished.

"I would like to neatly fit a box of HFA or Asperger's, but fact is I don't. I do function today in the HFA range, but this is not the girl who peed all over her room at age 11, its not the kid who had 10% receptive language at age 9, its not the kid who had bites all over her arms at age 6 from her own teeth, its not the kid who had no sense of pain and was trying to cough up her own lungs at age 2. Fact is, many people with autism WONT make my journey, but I did."

Yes, you did. With biomedical intervention, and diet.

Donna, you give the impression that you were a very low-functioning child with severe autism, and it appears that you attribute your self-abusive behaviours, and your peeing all over your bedroom floor at age 11, to your autism. Don’t you think that living in a dysfunctional home with abusive and neglectful parents, an alcoholic mother who wasn’t there for you, and your grandfather dying when he did, would have had more than a little impact on your development, and emotional state?

Did you pee all over the classroom floor when you were at school all day or did you reserve that behaviour for your bedroom? Are you trying to say that you were incontinent at 11 and couldn’t control your bladder, or what?

And if your exceptionally high pain threshold and the shocking self-injurious behaviours you describe are examples you use as evidence that you had low-functioning autism, why would you have any ties whatsoever to a philosophy that would have everyone celebrating your 'neurodiversity'?

And, looking back to when you were 11, if at the time a non-autistic sibling had shared your bedroom, do you think they would have accepted your 'difference', enjoyed your autistic company and being part of the eccentricity, and willingly invited their friends home to meet their autistic sister? Or do you consider it more likely that they would have been deeply embarrassed by your behaviour, self-isolated, and begged your parents to get you fixed?

At Sat Aug 25, 03:43:00 AM PDT, Donna said...

"And please also don't misquote Dr Bartak. He has over 40 years experience working with people with autism and is one of Australia's leading autism experts. He did not diagnose Wendy Lawson with autism. He diagnosed her with Asperger's.."

Seeing as I did not quote Dr Bartak, Donna, I could not have misquoted him. I did not say that Dr Bartak diagnosed Wendy Lawson with autism, I said, "Wendy Lawson was diagnosed, also, curiously, by Dr Laurie Bartak, with an Autism Spectrum Disorder".

The information came from a number of websites including Jessica Kingsley Publications, her publisher, and yours.

"Temple was not diagnosed with autism in infancy. She was diagnosed as brain damaged at age 2."

As a side note, I corresponded with Temple, circa 1995, and she was most interested in my son's history and the obvious link between his vaccination, his brain damage and his autism. And I will add, that as a frantic parent who'd been told by medical professionals that regressive late-onset autism is just a condition that strikes some children out of the blue, there wasn't a cause, and there was absolutely nothing I could do to help him, and they could give me no assistance whatsoever, I was touched and most grateful that she had shown an interest in my son and taken the time to write to me.

Here is an interview with Temple from 1996. It begins:

"Dr. Temple Grandin is in a unique position to provide parents and professionals insight into autism because she has autism. She was diagnosed at age 2 and has lived a very challenging and adventurous life."

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=817411

"At six months of age, Temple Grandin began to stiffen in her mother's arms and struggle to get away. At two years she lashed out in violent rages, yet had immense powers of concentration, letting sand fall through her fingers or examining her hands or spinning a coin for hours. At three, Temple was taken to a neurologist and a diagnosis of autism was made."

Although you are correct when you say, "Temple was not diagnosed in infancy", she was diagnosed in very early childhood, at the age of two or three, and not well into adulthood at 26, like yourself, or middle-life, at 46, like Wendy Lawson, which was the point I was making. But as you are going to quibble about the wording, I have changed "infancy" to "very early childhood".

Donna Williams said...

"In adulthood Temple was assessed as having Asperger's."

What do you mean by “assessed as having” Aspergers? By whom?

I have never read that Temple Grandin has been re-diagnosed with Asperger’s Syndrome. I’d certainly like a reference. Do you have one? However, I have ‘heard’ ND activists discussing Temple Grandin and Amanda Baggs on their blogs, and how Temple is more like a person with Aspergers, but from the way she looks and behaves it is quite obvious that Amanda is more the genuine article. After the CNN interview, someone said that they'd told Amanda Baggs years ago that one day she would become the "Great Leader of the Neuroatypicals".

Obviously, Neurodiversity activists thought that Temple looked too high functioning to represent low-functioning autistics, and be a spokesperson for them. However, I strongly suspect that's not the real reason. It has more to do with her attitude towards treatment and therapy. She knows children with autism need intense therapy. From what I have read, her loving, kind and supportive family worked together to give her the intense therapy she needed.

"Kathy Grant was diagnosed in the HFA range in late childhood. Her father is a brain surgeon and she had intensive early intervention from age 2. The sexual abuse you refer to happened to her in late childhood. Kathy has NEVER claimed to have been severely autistic."

In Kathy's own words:

"As a young child, I was raped by a neighbors grandfather. It has left me scarred since."

I have never seen a reference for Kathy Grant's HFA diagnosis in late childhood. That would have been before 1975, wouldn't it? Would there have been a range of autism diagnoses thirty-odd years ago? She might never have claimed to have been severely autistic, but she has claimed for many years before her Asperger's diagnosis in 1994 (or 2001), that she had been "diagnosed with autism".

It reminds me of Jasmine O'Neill who claims to be a mute, Classic Kanner's autistic savant. Did you ever meet her, Donna? I hear that since the publication of her book in 1999 in which she extols the beauty of autism and urges parents to embrace their child’s autism and to celebrate their neurological differences, that she has met the man of her dreams, married him, and regained her voice. Did you know?

"Jim Sinclair didn't speak till age 12. He may have had Selective Mutism but says he hadn't worked out why to speak. Jim had a childhood diagnosis of emotional disturbance and at some point a diagnosis of autism."

And yet in 1990, s/he couldn’t prove to the satisfaction of the SRS that s/he’d ever had a diagnosis of autism?

Jim Sinclair:

“When one of my advocates suggested that some problems that had been attributed to personality and attitude might actually be characteristics of the disability of autism, she replied that she felt I had done research on autism and had decided to imitate it. She suggested that this was a case of fraud.”

“On July 30, 1990, the State Appeals Committee issued a decision affirming the decision of the Hearing Officer.” (Ref: MAAP - Letters)

"None of these people have been treated for severe gut, immune or metabolic disorders though Wendy has recently been diagnosed with Coeliac."

Are any of these advocates believers in the current philosophy of Neurodiversity - that autism is to be celebrated, and children should not receive treatment of any kind such as vitamin supplements, chelation for metal toxicity, or the gf/cf diet and probiotics to heal gut dysbiosis; or therapy such as ABA, AIT, Doman-Delcato patterning, or cranio-sacral therapy?

You must be aware that Neurodiversity activists are accusing parents of child abuse for using such treatments and bad-mouthing them; and persuading and bullying others not to even try to treat their child, because it is, they say, tantamount to killing the "autistic person within". Do you agree with that, Donna? I’m almost certain you don’t.

At Sat Aug 25, 03:52:00 AM PDT, Donna said...

"I met Kathy Lissner and Jim Sinclair in 1992 when involved with the promotion of my second book, Somebody Somewhere."

According to Jim Sinclair you were promoting your first book:

http://web.syr.edu/~jisincla/History_of_ANI.html

"In February 1992 Donna Williams came to the U.S. to promote her first book, Nobody Nowhere. During her trip, she took a few days away from the book tour to visit with Kathy Lissner (now Kathy Grant) and me, two of the autistic people she had been corresponding with through the penpal list. I drove to St. Louis, Missouri, where Kathy lived, and we all stayed together in Kathy's apartment."

According to the reviews "Somebody Somewhere - Breaking Free from the World of Autism" your second book was first published in 1994.

It should not be necessary for me to go to the trouble of proving that I am correct, when the evidence is readily available online. Why say that you were promoting your second book, when you must know that it was your first? I really don't understand that, unless you want readers here to believe whatever you say because you are the author and should know when your book was published - or you're expecting me to jump through hoops for your entertainment. No one can promote a book two years before its publication.

"To confuse the origins of ANI with todays neurodiversity movement is fallacious. The neurodiversity movement came along years after the founding of ANI and was begun by Jim and carried forward by many others, including Wendy Lawson. So this should clarify your innacurate history."

This is very confusing, Donna. ANI was founded in 1992, and Jim Sinclair wrote “Don’t Mourn for Us” in 1993, so are you saying that the Neurodiversity Movement began with Sinclair’s writing of this piece? If you are, it looks like ND began one year after the founding of ANI, and that’s not "years after", is it?

And "Neurodiversity" was not dreamed up by Sinclair, was it? Judy Singer coined that word in 1998/9. She's not very popular amongst the ND crowd, is she? They won't even mention her by name. You know why, don't you?

My point to Nine, was that you, Jim Sinclair, and Kathy Grant did not begin the Neurodiversity Movement. Nine claimed that it had started after Jim Sinclair's essay had been published in 1993. But that essay was not widely circulated among parent autism support groups until 1999, after the rate of autism had increased, and parents found out that thimerosal/mercury in vaccines, a neurotoxicant, had been repeatedly injected into their babies starting with the first day of their birth.

Neurodiversity activists use this essay to prove that autism shouldn't be cured, and yet Jim Sinclair didn't have autism, and parents of children with autism today have no idea that Jim Sinclair is an inter-sexed person whom you say "may have had selective mutism", and that s/he is not against "intervention for behaviours that intrude on other people's boundaries".

What exactly did Sinclair mean by that statement?

A child with autism is forever intruding on other people's boundaries, but adult “autistics” who’ve never had their own children, and self-diagnosed “Aspies” wouldn’t know that, would they?

"My place in the neurodiversity politics has always been as a moderate who strongly supports treatment for gut, immune and metabolic disorders for the subgroup of people with AUTISM who share the same health issues I've dealt with."

Yes, I agree you are a moderate. You have a foot in both camps. And being a moderate, you have not budged even when you've come under fire from ND activists for your support of biomedical treatment and special diets, and I thank you for that.

BUT, your recent interview with Amanda Baggs and your You Tube video are supportive of the Neurodiversity Movement’s philosophy. And that is giving everyone with an autistic child a false impression.

It was also a huge disappointment to read your interview with Amanda Baggs, when you should be fully-aware of her history.

By your reputation, Donna, as an advocate for people with autism, and as one of the best known autistic authors for the past fifteen years, you are giving this person who pretends to have been a low-functioning, non-verbal child with autism, CREDIBILITY, especially since your interview appeared after accusations of fraud had started to circulate.

Amongst other falsehoods that you have helped to perpetuate by engaging in this interview, Amanda Baggs was not a non-verbal child with severe autism who learned to communicate at age 9, by slowly teaching herself to type on a keyboard with a little picture of a cat on it. At that age, she was a fully-verbal, fully-toilet-trained, gifted child attending a normal school. And five years later, she was living away from home, attending Simon’s Rock College where she was majoring in psychology. That’s when she started smoking marijuana and using LSD “extensively”, and after several months, crazy and suicidal, she ended up in the psychiatric ward of a hospital, and diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.

Having read that, Donna, do you truly believe that Amanda Baggs was a non-verbal, doubly-incontinent, low-functioning child with severe autism who was institutionalised? Which is the impression she gives in the visually shocking but entirely false Getting the Truth Out website, and on her blog.
She says on her profile at AFF, that the only official diagnosis on paper that she’s ever had is “Autistic Disorder – low-functioning”. She does not say that at the time she was given the diagnosis, she was 19 or 20 years old.

One can only guess why a person who not only supports but recommends treatment, and uses it herself, would have anything to do with the Neurodiversity Movement and their insane philosophy.

Why Donna?

45 comments:

Fore Sam said...

If you look at Donna's interview with Baggs, it sounds like Baggs memorized a textbook to rattle off all those terms. Anyone else whose head was that messed up would be lucky to know what year it was. Poker players call this overplaying your hand. I wonder if Baggs is skilled at poker.

Anonymous said...

Agreed. Also it has been shown that when people give an over abundance of details they are lying. I too read that interview and thought it was too well rehearsed.

These people who have all suddenly have ASDs are the same types who in the 80s suddenly "remembered" that they had been forced to perform satanic rituals.

Anonymous said...

watson said, "A child with autism is forever intruding on other people's boundaries, but adult “autistics” who’ve never had their own children, and self-diagnosed “Aspies” wouldn’t know that, would they? "

Amen. a thousand times amen.

autism pauper said...

Another thought, adult autistics may not realize that autistics intrude on others space because they are intrinsically not self aware or aware of others space.

Unlike Amanda Baggs who appears to be very aware of self.

Fore Sam said...

Watson,
With no more libel threats from Donna and no more comments, it looks like you've done a thorough job of getting the truth out on her. We nevr heard an answer from David Andrews either, did we?

Anonymous said...

Donna wrote on her blog last Sunday about how unpleasant people are among other things. I believe it was directed at this blog. I doubt she will write a response to Watson.

Autism Pauper wrote, "Another thought, adult autistics may not realize that autistics intrude on others space because they are intrinsically not self aware or aware of others space."

That is so incredibly true. Aspies get right in your face, invade your personal space, assume things, because of exactly that. They have no self awareness and that would increase a million times with LFAs.


The self awareness of Amanda Baggs was the tip off for me because I honestly thought she was for real for quite a while, then it started not to make sense, the stuff she could do, they way she expresses herself, how she understands and writes about the minutae of every feeling and bodily sensation.

Also I have a major issue with the self dxed crowd. All they do is trivialize a serious condition. By their standards we could all qualify as autistic. But who the heck would want to. Most of us have real lives.

watson said...

Fore Sam said...

"We nevr heard an answer from David Andrews either, did we?"

No, we didn't. But let's be fair, John, "David N. Andrews MEd (Distinction)" would no doubt be a very busy man, and he could have overlooked the post. Moving it into a prominent position on the first page, should draw his attention to it.

watson said...

Fore Sam said...

"If you look at Donna's interview with Baggs, it sounds like Baggs memorized a textbook to rattle off all those terms.

Well, she's already said that Jasmine O'Neill's book is her bible which she takes to bed with her every night, but I suspect that she has slept with the DSM for much longer.

watson said...

Anonymous said...

"Donna wrote on her blog last Sunday about how unpleasant people are among other things. I believe it was directed at this blog. I doubt she will write a response to Watson."

Truth might often be unpleasant, but that doesn't alter the fact that it is the truth.

A couple of quotes:

"If you shut up truth and bury it under the ground, it will but grow, and gather to itself such explosive power that the day it bursts through it will blow up everything in its way." - Emile Zola

And:

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains taken to bring it to light." - George Washington

I think it's important to bring the truth to light, don't you?


"Autism Pauper wrote, "Another thought, adult autistics may not realize that autistics intrude on others space because they are intrinsically not self aware or aware of others space."

"That is so incredibly true. Aspies get right in your face, invade your personal space, assume things, because of exactly that. They have no self awareness and that would increase a million times with LFAs."


I second that.

"The self awareness of Amanda Baggs was the tip off for me because I honestly thought she was for real for quite a while, then it started not to make sense, the stuff she could do, they way she expresses herself, how she understands and writes about the minutae of every feeling and bodily sensation."

For a person with genuine Autism or genuine Asperger's Syndrome, it would be absolutely impossible.

endersdragon said...

Hey just curious, what are you screennames Watson and Foreskin? I got an email the other day that you should check out though you would never ever put it on your website (it talking about kids dying during chelation (sp?) therapy, don't want that to get out do we.)

Fore Sam said...

Dragon,
If this problem with chelation is something new, I'd publish it to help make people aware of more idiotic doctors. If it's the same single case that Neurodiversity uses to denigrate all chelation, I would not be interested in it.

Anonymous said...

Dragon,

This same idiotic argument comes up time and time again in different guises. Hundreds of thousands of kids get sick and die every year from vaccinations and no will will admit it. Yet you get one kid who gets sick from a disease that is supposedly 'preventable' through vaccines and its a major news story that the illness could have been avoided and aren't the parents evil.

Dragon, I know you are an aspie because of your incredible immaturity, your inability to see that stories have more than one side, and your relentless perseveration on pointless details.

Either get cured or get a grip. The owner of this blog is extremely patient with you.

watson said...

endersdragon said...

"I got an email the other day that you should check out though you would never ever put it on your website (it talking about kids dying during chelation (sp?) therapy, don't want that to get out do we.)

Endersdragon, Have you any idea how many babies are killed or permanently damaged by vaccination?

What we do know is that the ones who've been "compensated" are only at the very, very tip of the iceberg.

When one child dies after chelation, no one doubts that the procedure killed the child. A fuss is made, and everyone gets to hear about it.

When a child is injured or killed by a vaccine 'something else' is almost always blamed. Victims of the vaccination programme are considered collateral damage in the War Against Disease. The media are gagged. "Compensated" parents are gagged. And the truth hardly ever gets a chance to surface.

Why the difference?

Why do you think governments and Big Pharma don't want the truth about vaccines getting out?

endersdragon said...

Well the articles I have read have had several major medical schools speak out again chelation therapy. What do universities have to do with ND? And just so you know, you never did tell me your email address. Though I am also curious (spawned by another email today) would you send your son to Judge Rotenberg Education Center?

Fore Sam said...

Dragon,
bettwice33@verizon.net
When my son grows too large and strong for me to handle, if he becomes a danger to himself and others and has to be institutionalized, I would consider JRC ahead of other places that will do nothing for him besides putting him in restraints and keeping him heavily sedated.

Pain can be good for you. When I used to lift weights every day, I learned to like the pain and work through it. Same thing with running, sometimes it hurts but it makes you stronger. JRC is a last resort. It's better than doing nothing. Perhaps it could cure your homosexuality.

watson said...

endersdragon said...

"Well the articles I have read have had several major medical schools speak out again chelation therapy."

Find a medical school or a medical professional speaking out against vaccination, who is still employed.


"What do universities have to do with ND?"

A lot, Endersdragon. A LOT.

Universities are breeding grounds for "Aspies", particularly the self-diagnosed kind.

Aspie students like Alexander Plank who started up Wrong.Planet:

http://www.alexplank.com/profile.php

Do you find it a strange coincidence that, recently diagnosed with Aspergers, the 2002 Nobel prizewinner Vernon Smith is an economics professor at the same university as Plank, and that he has been speaking out about autism?

Here is his "Accept Us" video posted by Christschool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6laOv94VUU
Vernon Smith, Nobel Prize Winner & Autistic, "Accept Us"

Now instead of speculating that Einstein had autism, ND activists have got a real live Nobel prizewinner with autism.

Or have they?

watson said...

Anonymous said...

"This same idiotic argument comes up time and time again in different guises. Hundreds of thousands of kids get sick and die every year from vaccinations and no will will admit it. Yet you get one kid who gets sick from a disease that is supposedly 'preventable' through vaccines and its a major news story that the illness could have been avoided and aren't the parents evil."

Precisely! And having unvaccinated kids getting very sick or, even better, dying is a great marketing ploy. It strikes fear in the hearts of parents which leads to compliance.

However, when vaccinated kids get the diseases they're supposedly "protected" against, they're diagnosed with something else instead, or they say they were too young to be fully-immunised, or that the vaccine must have been incorrectly stored, or vaccines aren't 100 % effective, or that the child would have been much, much sicker or died if they hadn't been vaccinated, or some other twaddle.

They'll never admit that the vaccine didn't work.

Anonymous said...

I thought Plank attended UVA?

Anonymous said...

Also a Pulitzer Prize Winner: Tim Page
Also a Fields Medal Winner (highest mathematics award: Richard Borcherds


Watson, I guess you know more than any of these people. What have you accomplished in life? Please do tell.

The fact is you would be proud to have any of these men as your children, but the sorry fact is you don't and you want to blame other people for the fact that you don't. You want to bring everyone down to your miserable existence.

watson said...

Anonymous said...

"I thought Plank attended UVA?"

:bigsigh

Here's the link again:

http://www.alexplank.com/profile.php

Alexander Plank

Profile

"Alex Plank is the 20 year old guy behind WrongPlanet.net, the immensly popular and highly trafficked site for individuals with Asperger's Syndrome and Autism.

Alex is a sophmore at George Mason University studying Film and Screen Business. His hobbies and interests include internet business, writing, acting, and video production. For Alex, hobbies aren't just something to pass the time; he believes in agressively pursuing his interests in a way that will better the world."

watson said...

Anonymous said...

"Also a Pulitzer Prize Winner: Tim Page
Also a Fields Medal Winner (highest mathematics award: Richard Borcherds"


Tim Page said, "I was told that I had Aspergers Syndrome", that was in 2000.

In 'Parallel Play' he writes: "The Asperger’s spectrum ranges from people barely more abstracted than a stereotypical “absent-minded professor” to the full-blown, albeit highly functioning, autistic."

That is the very first time I have ever heard of an "Asperger's Spectrum". Who dreamed that up? Is it any wonder that people with "traits", think they have Asperger's Syndrome?

Richard Borcherds was diagnosed by Baron-Cohen, after Baron-Cohen had set up his "Cambridge Lifespan Asperger Syndrome Service" clinic in 2000, which has identified Aspergers "in thousands of intelligent people".

Baron-Cohen was able to use Richard Borcherd's biography in his book The Essential Difference (2004) in support of his extreme male brain theory.

Here is an excerpt from page 9:

"He is thus an example of an adult who in a sense has adapted his AS to an environment where it is no longer a major, or indeed any, obstacle at all.

One might question whether Richard Borcherds really merits a diagnosis at all, given how well adapted he is. Certainly, he is not currently severe enough in his symptoms to warrant a diagnosis in adulthood, as his symptoms are not interfering with his daily functioning. In the jargon of the diagnostic criteria, he is not "suffering any impairment in his daily life."

The question is why he has a diagnosis at all if his symptoms aren't severe enough to warrant it, and they are not "interfering with his daily functioning"?

And why there is a page about him at Neurodiversity.com?

On the subject of misery. My son's autism makes him miserable. And despite Tim Page's success in life, and being married, twice, he is not celebrating even his mild form of Aspergers, he says:

"I cannot pretend that Asperger’s has not made much of my existence miserable and isolated".

Anon, Find one famous person or high-flyer diagnosed with Autism or Asperger's Syndrome before 2000.

Anonymous said...

"The question is why he has a diagnosis at all if his symptoms aren't severe enough to warrant it, and they are not "interfering with his daily functioning"?"

Professor Borcherds isn't any different than most people with a disability that finds an environment that accomodates his disability. Take Professor Hawking. Do you think he could make a living with his hands? Of course not, but he was lucky enough that his disability didn't affect him until later in life and people recognized his ability to contribute long before he became severely disabled. Universities are natural "workshops" for people with autism. Its where people who are different can be accepted. In regards to autistic people, universities are where they can indulge obsessions and they get the opportunity to talk about their interests all day and be paid for it!

As far as high flyer before 2000, Temple Grandin may count. She hasn't won any awards like the others but I don't know too many professors that are as well known as she is.

There aren't many people who win Nobel, Fields or Pulitzers period, regardless of neurology so your challenge is a bit silly. Can you name me anyone that won a Fields medal off the top of your head, without doing an internet search?

The problem is that you want to "pigeon hole" autistic people. If they don't fit your box, you want to tear them down. Why? I believe its because your a bitter person. You have so much self loathing that you can't see anything but negativity. You seem to be an envious person.

I feel any conversation with you is a complete waste of time because you feel "you are so right in your opinions (very autistic like by the way)", that no amount of persuasion in the opposite direction would work with you. It's like talking to a wall. Nothing is absorbed, it all bounces off.

I leave you to your cyberstalking obsessions.

Anonymous said...

If Autism is indeed a spectrum, then there are going to be people on both extremes and people in the middle. Why do the highest functioning need to be torn down to validate the condition of the lowest functioning?

Fore Sam said...

Anon,
The highest functioning would not need to be torn down if they would stop trying to obscure how pathetic the lowest functioning are. You also have some rotten people who imitate low functioning autistics to make it look like they aren't so bad off. While they may suffer from long term psychosis due to excessive LSD use and may not be simply acting, the fact remains that they are not autistic.

Anonymous said...

Maybe Amanda Baggs should be put in the Judge Rotenberg School and see how autistic she remains. Bet she would leap out of that wheelchair pretty damn fast, toss away the voice box and claim she never flapped her hands in her life, not to mention 'body slammed' walls which she claims she does when she stressed out.

watson said...

Anonymous said...

"Why do the highest functioning need to be torn down to validate the condition of the lowest functioning?If Autism is indeed a spectrum, then there are going to be people on both extremes and people in the middle."

How could pointing out that these prizewinners do not have Asperger's Syndrome be seen as an attempt to tear them down? They were not awarded their prizes for having Aspergers.

What I'm saying is that anyone able to function in society, lead a normal life, make friends, get married, raise children, rise to the very top of their chosen field, and win an esteemed prize is not disabled, so they don't have Asperger's Syndrome.

As Baron-Cohen says above, Borcherd's symptoms "are not severe enough to warrant a diagnosis" nor are they "interfering with his daily functioning", which is one of the diagnostic criteria. So Borcherd doesn't merit a diagnosis because he doesn't fit what must be the most important criterion.

There must have been a reason for Baron-Cohen to give Borcherd a diagnosis. What was it? Surely not to help him write his book to sell his theory of the extreme male brain, or so that Neurodiversity could use yet another superior person to promote their philosophy and help disseminate their propaganda.

It has become a popular belief that Asperger's Syndrome is a mild form of autism. It is not. It's not as severe as Kanner's Syndrome, but it is still a disabling condition.

Until I read Page's article, I had never struck an Asperger's Spectrum, and until I came across Baron-Cohen's CLASS clinic offering "diagnostic assessment of adults with suspected Asperger Syndrome or other high-functioning autism conditions.", I didn't know there were any "other high-functioning autism conditions".

I googled "Asperger's Spectrum" and found references to Einstein and Bill Gates. So I guess sometime in the last few years it was decided that as neither of them actually fit the criteria for Asperger's Syndrome, the invention of an Asperger's spectrum where they and other geniuses - and prizewinners - would 'fit' had to be created. Perhaps that's about the time I started hearing about adults, children and toddlers diagnosed with "mild Aspergers" or "Atypical Aspergers".

Since 1999, "Autism" and "Asperger's Syndrome" have taken on entirely different meanings, and I believe that changing how people see these disorders has been done deliberately to hide the huge number of children damaged and disabled by vaccines in the 90s.

Over the last few years a devastating and disabling condition has been turned in the public eye into one that is not only acceptable, but desirable.

lurker said...

I've seen too many of these Aspergers/HFA people talk as if they represent the conditions of autism. Many of them I hear of in self description do not lack any basic abilities. They just show how they have highly benefited from the way they are.

Many of these elites, who chauvinistically talk about their traits, are trying to exploit the lower functioning, trying to make believe there aren't autistics that are with significant deficits. These high functioning ones, some of whom aren't even diagnosed, talk about the tremendous abilities coming with autism, while ignoring the huge lack of abilities of the LFA.

I wonder how many people are falling for the sob stories of the HFA as they spew platitudes about accepting difference and anti-conformity. Those aspies haven't suffered much and certainly aren't suffering now.

All this sappy talk goes hand in hand with protecting the greedy pigs in big business from criticism, who likely contributed to the autism problem through vaccines and environmental pollution, and who are trying to undermine methods to get rid of the problem through prevention and treatment. The indignation is intense for me.

When it comes to the scare tactics about the dangers of chelation, it is shown that helpful treatments aren't being taken up and developed widely among doctors, leaving only a small amount of doctors, some of whom aren't adept at giving out the treatment to administer it. The anti-cure crowd should feel some of the guilt, as they have diverted activist strength away from promoting the use of treatments. In spite of that, there actually has been some success from chelation that the anti-treatment crowd wants to cause doubt about.

watson said...

Anonymous said...

"Professor Borcherds isn't any different than most people with a disability that finds an environment that accomodates his disability.

What exactly is Borcherds' disability? Baron-Cohen says he is not "suffering any impairment in his daily life", and that his AS isn't "an obstacle at all".

"Take Professor Hawking. Do you think he could make a living with his hands?"

What a ridiculous comparison! You cannot compare someone as physically disabled as Hawking whose brain is sharp, with someone who is physically able who has obsessive interests in things peculiar, extreme behavioural abnormalities and a communication disorder that make them socially inept. And by "socially inept" I'm not referring to 'not being able to do 'small talk''.

"Universities are natural "workshops" for people with autism. Its where people who are different can be accepted. In regards to autistic people, universities are where they can indulge obsessions and they get the opportunity to talk about their interests all day and be paid for it!"

I believe that, "Universities are natural "workshops" for people with autism. " has morphed from Tony Attwood's original statement in the 90s which if I remember correctly was "Science laboratories are natural workshops for people with Aspergers".

"As far as high flyer before 2000, Temple Grandin may count. She hasn't won any awards like the others but I don't know too many professors that are as well known as she is. "

Yes, she'd be the only one. And no one could possibly claim that Temple Grandin has led a normal life. It was obvious from the age of 6 months when she started stiffening in her mother's arms that something had gone wrong. That's why at one stage she was most interested in the link with vaccines.

How many professors have her history or autism diagnosed in very early childhood? And, because I strongly suspect that you are a supporter of Neurodiverse philosophy, please note that Temple Grandin is not against intervention, in fact somewhere she recommends at least 20 hours of intense 1 to 1 therapy per week.

"There aren't many people who win Nobel, Fields or Pulitzers period, regardless of neurology so your challenge is a bit silly. Can you name me anyone that won a Fields medal off the top of your head, without doing an internet search?"

And yet since 2000 we have at least three prizewinners with Aspergers. I was going to write "diagnosed", but were they really officially diagnosed? One said he was "told" he had it, and another doesn't fit the criteria because he is not disabled. Do you know if Vernon Smith was given an official diagnosis, and by whom?

Have you read Gillberg and Gillberg's diagnostic criteria for Aspergers Syndrome from 1989? Or the tests given to people in the 1980s whom Frith suspected had Aspergers? Or Wing's 1981 description of Aspergers?

Very few Aspies diagnosed today would recognize themselves, and self-diagnosed Aspies would no doubt be horrified.

"The problem is that you want to "pigeon hole" autistic people. If they don't fit your box, you want to tear them down. Why? I believe its because your a bitter person. You have so much self loathing that you can't see anything but negativity. You seem to be an envious person."

So you read what I write and conclude that I want to tear autistic people down, that I am envious, and I loathe myself? That's hilarious!

I support people with autism and Asperger's Syndrome. I am not in the least bit envious of other people's success, and I certainly don't loathe myself.

What I do loathe are self-diagnosed "Aspies" pretending that they have a disabling condition, and yet they shun people who really do have autism and Asperger's Syndrome, like Jonathan here who wants to be cured.

And I also loathe people who have made a fortune poisoning our children, destroying their minds and their potential, and who are getting away with it.

"I feel any conversation with you is a complete waste of time because you feel "you are so right in your opinions (very autistic like by the way)", that no amount of persuasion in the opposite direction would work with you. It's like talking to a wall. Nothing is absorbed, it all bounces off."

What "conversation" are you talking about? What opinions are you talking about?

I guess you are the Anonymous poster who "thought" Alexander Plank attended UVA. You were wrong, weren't you? And you listed two other prizewinners whom you said had been diagnosed with Aspergers, and then you got nasty. I then pointed out that these people have not been, or should not have been, diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, and challenged you to find a high flyer diagnosed with Aspergers or Autism before 2000. You mention Grandin whom everyone knows. And then you get nasty and insult me again.

Nastiness and insults aren't necessary, and tell more about you than me.

"I leave you to your cyberstalking obsessions."

I'll leave you to your delusions.

Anonymous said...

Tell me Watson, what exactly does your obsession with people with HFA do for your child? How is it helping your child? Perhaps there is something you could be doing your not because you spend too much time obsessing over other people?

How does all of your amatuer diagnosing help your child? I for one think that any parent spending too much time on autism politics is a parent not interested in helping their child.

You have chosen to associate yourself with a blog all about this obsession. But in the end, those moments spent gleaming info off the internet are moments you are robbing from your child.

It would seem to me that this is all unproductive, except to help you deal with your anger.

Do you really think anyone (important) is listening? Or are you like the tragic Don Quixote striking at windmills.

Please, do yourself a favor. Take a long deep breath, scream at something. Listen to some classical music. Find someone to take care of your child for a week so you can get away and meditate on your life and how you want to proceed.

Then, if you come back with the same obsession, recognize it as a symptom of autism that you yourself have. That you enjoy your strong opinions and obsessive interest in what your doing. Reflect on things. Rediscover your inner child or whatever.

If you can get a handle on what is really at the core of your grief and anger, recognize it, you'll be able to move forward and out of this loop your in of anger and grief.

Fore Sam said...

Maybe this is why Amanda doesn't seek a cure, because she knows there isn't one for LSD psychosis.
Psychosis
The effects of LSD can be described as drug-induced psychosis-distortion or disorganization of a person's capacity to recognize reality, think rationally, or communicate with others. Some LSD users experience devastating psychological effects that persist after the trip has ended, producing a long-lasting psychotic-like state. LSD-induced persistent psychosis may include dramatic mood swings from mania to profound depression, vivid visual disturbances, and hallucinations. These effects may last for years and can affect people who have no history or other symptoms of psychological disorder.


Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder
Some former LSD users report experiences known colloquially as "flashbacks" and called "HPPD" by physicians. These episodes are spontaneous, repeated, sometimes continuous recurrences of some of the sensory distortions originally produced by LSD.

The experience may include hallucinations, but it most commonly consists of visual disturbances such as seeing false motion on the edges of the field of vision, bright or colored flashes, and halos or trails attached to moving objects. This condition is typically persistent and in some cases remains unchanged for years after individuals have stopped using the drug.

Because HPPD symptoms may be mistaken for those of other neurological disorders such as stroke or brain tumors, sufferers may consult a variety of clinicians before the disorder is accurately diagnosed. There is no established treatment for HPPD, although some antidepressant drugs may reduce the symptoms. Psychotherapy may help patients adjust to the confusion associated with visual distraction and to minimize the fear, expressed by some, that they are suffering brain damage or psychiatric disorder.

Nine said...

I noticed something interesting. The Roswell New Mexico UFO crash occured at around the same time that autism was disovered. Temple Grandin was among the first people described to be autistic and she was born less than two months after the Roswell New Mexico crash. Do I smell a conspiracy here?

watson said...

Anonymous said...

"Do you really think anyone (important) is listening?"

Yes, most definitely, seeing as everyone is important, and not just people who think they are.

"Tell me Watson, what exactly does your obsession with people with HFA do for your child? How is it helping your child? "

I don't have an obsession, Anon, I have a vested interest in doing whatever I can to help destroy a movement which harms people with autism. Individuals with autism, like my son.

I worry greatly about children who will never be given a chance to recover because their parents have been taken in by Neurodiversity's insane philosophy.

I also worry that by the time our children leave home, ND advocates like yourself will have recruited so many more Aspies into your ranks, and diagnosed others with autism (like you did me), that they will have trivialized the disorder to such a degree that one day our children will be denied the services they need.

Even now, I am coming across negative comments from ordinary people who think that a person with high-functioning autism or Asperger's Syndrome is an asocial, overly-sensitive geek or nerd with a superior view of themselves.

My son is not a geek or a nerd with a high IQ and "sensory issues" who "can't do small talk", he has autism.

My son doesn't pretend to be someone else when it suits him, he doesn't have mood swings, or hear voices, or see things that aren't there. He is not mentally ill, he has autism.

My son's behaviour wasn't induced by recreational drug-taking in his youth, his behaviour stems from brain-damage in toddlerhood from vaccines that should not have been forced upon him.

My son is not a self-identified arty-farty "autistic" university student who enjoys being "different", and has at last found an identity within a movement that celebrates difference, and has found a Cause to fight for to give purpose and meaning to their lives.

My son is not a homosexual who no longer has to fight for Gay Rights and has switched his focus to another Cause.

By criticizing me, accusing me of parental neglect, by attempting to psychoanalyze me through messages posted here and diagnosing me with autism from afar, and advising me to change my behaviour, what you are actually saying is that I'm getting too involved in autism politics and you would very much like me to stop.

That indicates to me that you are worried about the impact I, and others like me, might be having on your cult. In actual fact, I'd be really worried if you approved of my messages, and I would be deeply disappointed if you ignored them.

My purpose here is to show how totally insane your movement is, and to encourage parents of children with autism to question its real motives.

Anon, you're living in La-la Land if you think that this movement exists to help people with autism. Some autism advocates like Thomas McKean were disturbed long ago by the direction autism advocacy was taking, and Joel Smith has been brought to tears on several occasions. I believe they took their advocacy seriously, they really care about people with real disabilities who suffer. It was not a game to them, a way to achieve fame, or a scheme to make money from books about autistics.

Autism experts must know that mentally-ill frauds with autistic-like behaviours are now swarming the ship, with Amanda and Laura at the helm, and these autism experts within the medical establishment are allowing them to do their dirty work for them, covering up the huge number of children whose brains were damaged by vaccines in the 90s. Mentally-ill adults stepping forward and claiming they "have autism" provided them with the hidden horde.

I will not go away, Anon. My interest in autism and its politics is not fleeting, this is my fifteenth year in the trenches, and I am here for the duration.

watson said...

Nine, I gather you haven't found another pre-1999 anti-cure article.

Anonymous said...

Sorry to disappoint, I said your insistence on "rightness" was autistic like, not a diagnosis. Unlike you, I don't diagnose people or undiagnose people with little snippets of information I get on the internet.

You never answered the question. What good are these paranoid obsessions doing for your child?

What good for YOUR child?

lisa said...

Watson thank you for putting into words what I as a parent feel.

watson said...

Anonymous said...

"Sorry to disappoint, I said your insistence on "rightness" was autistic like, not a diagnosis."

You also said:

"if you come back with the same obsession, recognize it as a symptom of autism that you yourself have."

Perhaps you meant to write "a symptom that you yourself have of autism", but that's not what you wrote. Besides, without ever having met me, you accuse me of spending far too much time on the computer every day indulging in an obsessive interest that keeps me away from human company. You might not have diagnosed me exactly, but your words imply that I am an autistic.

"Unlike you, I don't diagnose people or undiagnose people with little snippets of information I get on the internet."

And yet if anyone wants to join The Exclusive Superior Persons Club aka "Aspies for Freedom", all they have to do sit a five-minute AQ test to self-diagnose and count themselves a member, then they are free to spout insane Neurodiversity propaganda like how great it has to have autism, and speak against treatments and cures for people who genuinely have Asperger's Syndrome and Autism who are living miserable lives and DO want to be cured.

watson said...

lisa said...

"Watson thank you for putting into words what I as a parent feel."

Thank you for saying that, Lisa. Neurodiversity activists would like nothing better than for us to keep our mouths shut.

What I can't understand is why autism experts are right behind a movement full of charlatans, unless of course they are being paid to hide the truth. They must certainly be making a load of money from the books they keep churning out. I'd say that, just like the cancer industry, the autism industry has become quite a lucrative business, so, apart from parents of children with autism and individuals with autism such as Jonathan, Sue Rubin and Droopy, why would anyone want a cure for autism to be found?

Anonymous said...

Well said Watson,

Cancer, autism, vaccines etc are a money making industry, nothing more, and the sheeple are falling for it every day. It frightens me how incredibly easily led the majority of the population are.

Baaa baaaa

Anonymous said...

The alternative treatment world can be just as victimizing as the mainstream. Just attend a DAN! conference and take note of all the specialized supplement companies that are vying for parents wallets.

watson said...

Anon, Then people shouldn't allow themselves to become victims. It's time they took responsibility for their own and their children's health, and stopped relying on any doctors to do their thinking for them.

autism pauper said...

So far I have seen commentators accuse both Watson and Fore Sam of having autistic traits. I'm wondering when autism became a cult that people are recruited to instead of a neurological disorder? How come nobody is lining up to self diagnose as Down's syndrome or cerebral palsy and create fashionable groups for celebration of these conditions?

Anonymous said...

I had polio as a child and I am yet to find anything to celebrate about it. I suppose if I were an ND idiot I would now be celebrating the joys of post polio syndrome and talking about how polio is 'fundamentally beautiful.' Trust me, I'm not and that is because I had a real disease unlike these morons who are nothing but a bunch of self centred wannabees.

Amanda Baggs should give her effing wheelchair to someone with post polio syndrome who genuinely cannot walk.

Noel Eyes said...

A message for Amanda Baggs regarding this movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfHxoUDBQ4w

A new dance craze. The ALF/Neurodiversity Victory Dance for all the trendiest of the trendy autism leeches and imitators. A tip: Autistics (real ones) don't *shake* their hands, they *flap* -- but I'm sure with your extensive psychology major and study of autism you will continue to perfect your performance and thusly become 'more autistic' as you go. The 'retard claps' were a nice touch.
A few questions:
Is this the dance you do when you think of all the truly autistic people you've screwed over for a little fame and fortune? Does Laura Tconsik join in, or does she only sit in her wheelchair and bang her waterbottle keeping time?
Have you reported your 'donations' and all-expense paid trips and your $5,000 harp to the social services that are at your beck and call? No I suppose not. Perhaps you've managed to call them all 'adaptive equipment'?
If you can't find your tea kettle for five hours, how do you find your keyboard so easily in the midst of the clutter on your desk?
What movie is it that you plan to make which isn't suitable for public viewing? the one of you bending and furrowing your brow with a grunt to 'soil' your pants and the accompanying finger click (like Stewie on Family Guy") body language for 'the help' that translates 'hey can I get a little service here?' -- shame if it is, that might be the one worth watching.

Dance, gloat, be cocky, marvel at how easy its been to pull this off. Dance between concealing and explaining away your real past. Happy feet and skip with joy at convincing the masses of your 'autism.' Feel you have it made, dance like never before when you think of the true autistics how you hurt them and how glad you must be you're not *really* one of them. Dance a dance of gratitude that lucky you, yours is and autism of convinience, but most of all, keep talking and talking, never stop talking, talk cocky and everywhere and as much as you can, get yourself and your name and your schtick seen in as many places and means as you possibly can. Afterall, those who actually have autism are but mere cockroaches (affectionately known as 'human beings' or 'people' to the rest of us), and nothing in comparison.
You, Amanda Baggs, can do anything, say anything and it'll be believed, a path will be magically laid open before you, enabling and empowering you in ways that are certainly worthy of a happy dance like this. You are unstoppable, nothing can stop you now. Afterall, you are the Elf God.

Noel Eyes

Noel Eyes said...

A message for Amanda Baggs regarding this post:

http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=451#comment-88834

You poor thing, how awful it must have been to say what you felt people wanted to hear to please them. Oddly, you know, most people including most of all those 'autistic people' you keep making global statements on behalf of, don't have this problem.
Its okay, its understood and forgiven, especially now that you're onto saying exactly what 'the autism community' and 'neurodiveersity' et al want you to say and are playing the part of an autistic so perfectly, even too perfectly, but who can fault you that when you're just so eager to please? Who could ever fault you for a thing like that?

Its too bad you don't seem to have a consistent memory, and its very fortunate for the psychiatrist referenced here that there are sturdy confidentiality laws in place to prevent anyone's locating said good doctor and querying him for his rebuttal and recollections (his count too, don't they? He was there as well as you and it seems your idea of 'reality' has and continues to come under regular question, not that you're incllined to confuse anything you read or any online activity you involve yourself in with reality, no far be it from you, Right as Rain is Ms Baggs and your recollections, and everybody knows it).

Why magicaly recall and debate records 'from your childhood' then, its not as if anyone can view them.. or can they? Is there a bit of a concern that you may be investigated, that someone capable and willing may do so? Been afraid of private investigators lurking about or something, have you? Might there be a little reversion from a catatonic to paranoid states of schizophrenia involved here?
Nah, sorry, my bad, you were never schizophrenic, you were diagnosed as 'some sort of developmentally disabled' when you were 14 and even with your psychology major 'failed to understand' this.
Thats right.
Anyway, its fortunate that your 'muscle relaxant' wasn't too sedating to keep you from your 'happy dance' or to force you to your unbalanced immobilized wheelchair requiring state.
Here's hoping that 'neck problem' of yours gets better, and best of luck to you.

Noel Eyes

Donna said...

I'm not interested in arguing. I'd rather be ARTing. I can say that I say I was assessed as psychotic at age 2 in 1965 because my father told me the details. If I didn't hear it from a doctor and never saw the report, I can't know I was diagnosed. I do know he told me it was a 3 day inpatient assessment at St Elmo's Private Hospital, (Brunswick, Victoria, Australia) and that 'they said you were psychotic'. So, I don't have the finer points of semantic, I am as good as I can be but I still mix cup and mug, goose and duck, lend and borrow, buy and sell, so I am not too good at assessed verses diagnosed but I think if I heard directly from the doctor and saw a written report (as was the case with Dr Bartak who diagnosed me with autism) then I could say diagnosed. I don't say diagnosed as 'emotionally disturbed'. I say labeled. This is because the notes on the teacher's attendance roll were for visiting teachers to be aware of my 'needs' if they took the class in his absence. I asked about this and I understand it came about from assessments by visiting school 'psych and guidance' professionals (psychologists) who I remember having to go into the room with over many years of primary school. So, again, as I never got told directly by them and never saw a written report, I can't be sure I was diagnosed 'disturbed'. As for my health issues, yes, it really does make me an odd case. I think though that with my grandmother's parents being first cousins and their parents also being first cousins, lots of strengths and weaknesses got multiplied on that branch of the family, so its rife with coeliac, bipolar, dyslexia, adhd, social phobia, asperger's and there's another cousin with autism and tourette's but they also produced artists, musicians, writers. Recently learned his father's side also has several people diagnosed with ASD too, so he was a fairly spectrum guy. My view is that he fitted bipolar, ADHD and dyslexia. But it's my mother's treatment you feel added extras to my fruit salad, and I'd agree. Sure, an autie with RAD and PTSD has a lot more challenges than one without, but being face blind, unable to read facial expression, body language, intonation, being meaning deaf and struggling to process more than one component of visuals at a time or process the body as a whole or tell emotions from physical sensations, none of that makes for easy attachment either, even with the mother of one's dreams. And there's the equal question mark of whether Asperger's could help explain some of the big time social-emotional challenges my mother had. OCD issues, depression, agoraphobia and addiction have all run strongly in that family with several suicides. Add that to an inherited fruit salad and if you're already autie by personality, and autie on a sensory perceptual level by your father's genetic inbreeding, then add an extra dose of RAD and PTSD and the first 6 mths of life suffering from what was likely an already very developmentally challenged mother's post natal depression and I'm not surprised the result is someone with enough sensory perceptual, health and neuro-psych challenges in an autistic personality collection (almost all my traits are solitary) to push that into a pretty autistic presentation and make it a pretty tough climb.

As for MPD no person without medical qualifications has a right to 'diagnose' me or anyone else. I saw psych and guidance through primary school and a shrink for 2 years in my teens, then a psychologist at university for a year, and none of these people ever wrote that I had MPD or DID. I think they'd all have said I was disturbed, and I think they'd all agree RAD and PTSD was in my mix. I agree with that, and that abuse can increase all manner of personality disorders.

As for Thomas Mc Keene knowing me well for years!!! Excuse me? I never lived in the USA. I met him ONCE, in the pre internet days, spent about 30 min with him and had limited written correspondence with him. I hope you get famous, really famous, because you watch, every one whose ever spent more than 30 min with you will claim they have known you really well as a friend.

As for taking sides, I'm sure you know it is extremely hard to find that every time one side likes you the other side hates you. I choose to relate on a individual level with people as I find them. I also don't get heavily involved with anyone, I'm naturally aloof so that's not my style. I am also not necessarily convinced or otherwise, by how people see themselves. I'm a Taoist so I don't presume either that consequences of things are all bad or all good.

Were my challenges hell? Yes. Were some of the sensory perceptual aspects sometimes wonderful too? Yes. Meaning deafness and meaning blindness increased my ability to learn by rote, to be better with physical patterning, to use musical ability to visually and aurally map patterns. Bipolar stuff meant I've known manic extremes which are beyond what most people will ever experience. Seeing halos around lights was pretty buzzy. Having an intense love of movement through space was pretty enjoyable. I can fall in love with a routine and circuit, that's not too bad. I like my personality traits even if when they tip into extremes they are impossible. But, sure, the lows of rapid cycling bipolar stuff, the extremes of OCD stuff, the imprisonment with tourette's type tics, the entrapment with exposure anxiety, the frustration of semantic pragmatic disorder, the disempowerment of selective mutism, the fear and distress and pain of immune deficiency and gut issues, the disorientation of brain fog and brain starvation, the torture of cascading tumbling blah and fragmented visuals in a brain that can't filter... none of those were thrilling... but I guess I'm saying there are reasons I'm a moderate, not because I can't choose, or fear disapproval, but because my fruit salad was both hell and heaven. I know some people experienced the fallout as hellish more than heaven, but some really enjoyed my company where they could and I like to remember that with positivity, I NEED to for my soul, my self esteem, my identity as more than a condition. I embrace the treatments I've had because they have maximised the good stuff and made those dominate my life more than the really tough stuff. But even at my worst that other side, the positive stuff, the me, was always there... it's like tide and undercurrent... sometimes the tide is so full on we don't feel the undercurrent, but it's still there, when the tide subsides even momentarily, we experience it.

As for the IQ thing, I don't see it as proof of my being 'low functioning', I do see it as proof that IQ tests test receptive visual-verbal skills and that deficits in these areas don't adequately reflect a person's potential to develop adaptations using other facilities which are more intact.

As for the whole Einstein thing, Einstein was an idiosyncratic personality, that doesn't equate with being autistic (condition) but in the extreme Schizotypal personality disorder (the extreme of the idiosyncratic trait) can fit the adjective 'autistic'.

As for Temple's, I'd prefer to see more empathy (as opposed to scientific interest) and less of the recent published and broadcast supremist comments about the world needing 'high functioning' autistics and that low functioning ones are the price we have to pay for social advancement (which she sees as due to HFAs without which she has said we wouldn't have fire or the wheel). What do I think of that? Simplistic, bigoted, supremist tripe. I also don't think that having scientific curiosity in 'low functioning' people is necessarily the same as empathy but I'm glad she has taken the time to get to know severely challenged people with autism.

And, no, hopefully I won't come back ;-)