Friday, August 03, 2007

What Does Neurodiversity Say About Amanda Baggs?



If we added an elf hat to this thing, is that how Amanda pictures herself?


It looks like Neurodiversity doesn't want to say anything about Amanda Baggs. They must be afraid to defend a fraud. With all the evidence that has been published here, one would think that the leaders of the neuroinsane would come to the defense of their allegedly autistic spokesmodel.

Nope, the nitwits are silent. As viciously as the Neuronitwits attacked Droopy for her exposition of Baggs by sicking a lawyer on an actual autistic woman, one would think they would try the same tactic here. But, no threatening letters from Neuronitwit lawyers have arrived. I don't think you can sue someone for publishing factual statements. If you could sue someone for quote mining, Kathleen Seidel and Kevin Leitch would be broke.

Perhaps the ND's are hoping I'll shut up and go away if they don't respond. Haha, not likely. It's kind of nice to be able to criticize this pack of wacked out weirdos without any of them bothering me.

Neurodiversity claims to seek respect for autistic people. Yet, here they are putting up a new age LSD using hippy who thinks she's an elf as their most visible spokesperson. Is that the image they wish to convey for themselves? I don't think they'll gain much respect from anyone when their mouthpiece is having hallucinations about conversations with elves.



http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.schizophrenia/browse_thread/thread/e0ab3c21962eda6e/c9128c5244ecd565?lnk=st&q=LSD&rnum=6&hl=en#c9128c5244ecd565

Dec 7 1997,

Galiganinda Dulin First I'm going to say that I -know- what this sounds like. Then I'm going to say that it's not like that, this time. Yesterday I was on a long car ride, staring out the window. The Others suddenly told me that they would be relaying messages from the elves I used to live with (and be one of). I knew they couldn't lie, but I thought they might be being deceived themselves. But then again, they know everything. In this universe. Maybe the elves were in another universe. All sorts of thoughts were flying through my head. But I said, okay, what do they want to tell me? They said that I had indeed lived with them. But I knew that. Then they said that in this life when I took acid they were able to get through to me because it changed my... and they said something that I couldn't figure out at all, but it had to do with sensitivity to different realms of reality (I think). Then they said that, like certain forms of magic, acid takes its toll on the user. They said that I was wise to give it up. They said that now that I had discovered the Others I would be able to talk to them, sometimes. I said something like, "Okay, but I have to know you're really real. Do something to prove that you're real." They didn't answer, but immediately a song that I had never heard came on the radio. It had to do with travel between different universes. So I believed them. Then they sort of misquoted Yeats: Come away, O elven child To the woods and waters wild Reunited with your band For the world's more full of weeping Than you can understand I got excited, but said, "Okay, that first thing might have been a coincidence. Give me another sign." I didn't really expect them to do it. Then the driver turned the car on again and the first words out of the radio are, "Trust I seek and I find in you." Now I really believed them. "Are there any other elves in this world?" "We can't tell you that." "Why not?" "Because it would disturb what is going to happen. We can't interfere." "Well take me to your world now then!" "We can't do that." "Why not?" "It's not time yet." "But..." "We'll give you one glimpse of our world. You will see trees as we see trees." Well now every time I look at a tree, there is a new, but very old in my mind, quality to it. I can't really describe it. I tried to stick my hand in one, but that didn't work (I was able to do that in the elf world). Anyway, I'm really excited and happy to be given this chance to see part of that world again.

110 comments:

maxima said...

I almost pissed my pants laughing when I saw that picture of the fertility goddess, Ha ha. You have a twisted sense of humour Foresam, I like it.

Maybe the 'Others' told Amanda to become autistic? Maybe the 'Others' have promised Amanda an ever lasting life in the elf woods if she does a good job acting autistic?

Who knows, but the more I read about this woman and find out about her past the more I feel sorry for her. A day in her shoes would probably feel like walking in bull shit. How will she be able to keep track of all the lies she has told? There most be a point where she will break and come undone. I predict that will happen soon.

BTW, she claims to have synathesia now. What doesn't this woman have? Does she grab all the trendy disfunctions and diagnose herself with them?

BTW, she has her autism diagnosis on her website. It's written on a medication subscription??? Both of my parents are doctors and no doctor in his right mind writes down a serious diagnosis like autism on his subscription pad. Maybe the 'Others' adviced her to subscribe to autism, kind of like a magazine subscription? I guess anything is possible among elfs....

Fore Sam said...

I don't even want to ask what synaesthesia is.

Anonymous said...

Synesthesia is a function of the brain where shapes, sounds and colours are associated with letters, words and numbers, and sometimes music and other things which colour etc is not associated with. Synesthesia is not something you can develop, people who have it have had it all their lives.

Synesthesia has no connction autism, but since Daniel Tammet says he has it Amanda now claims she has it too.

I have synesthesisa and I am not autistic. It is no big deal, just a part of your life if you grew up with it. Self diagnosed HFA seem to have added it to their list of phoney symptoms lately.

Anonymous said...

To the person with synesthesia, what taste is associated with the name Amanda Baggs. I bet it is poop, as in bullshit.

Anonymous said...

maxima, I don't know you, only what you write and you seem to be a bit on the autie side based on your interests you show on your blog. Your expressionless picture. Sure your not on the spectrum? Your obsession with this woman also seems a bit suspect and a bit of a perserveration.

Many have concluded that John Best is probably on the spectrum as well. His obsession with getting reactions out of people, his obsession to talk endlessly about the same subject over and over again.

Not often that you get a willing female to consistently attack another woman, over and over again. A woman unknown to the other, especially when a man is making fun of another woman's weight. Its a bit male like. Isn't autism suppose to be the extreme male brain?

Fore Sam said...

Anon, Baggs is misrepresenting our kids and probably laughing about her finger twiddling act that she does for the cameras. If she doesn't like being made fun of, she should shut up.

How come she wasn't known as a finger twiddling spaceshot before she used LSD?

Anonymous said...

Hey, how did you get her to pose for that sculpture? Excellent job, looks just like her. Lol.

maxima said...

Anonymous, you know nothing about me; your conclusions are based on a simple blog I post about philosophy, music and documentaries? This is like self diagnosis after answering a dumb questionare online; I mean the fact that I check this blog daily must mean I'm an obssesive compulsive asperger masculant woman that loves to abuse other women online. Maybe I can start a community now for people like me and I must make youtube video blogs where I describe in detail my disfunctional brain patterns and how it takes me 6 months to shave my beard. Don't even get me to explain the whole day it can take me to put on a bra, it's not even worth it :-)

Keep trying Anon, for all you know I could be an evil elf going after Amanda.

Anonymous said...

"I mean the fact that I check this blog daily must mean I'm an obssesive compulsive asperger masculant woman that loves to abuse other women online. "

Yep, that about sums it up.

Anonymous said...

John, you are tiresome. I become vaguely interested in what insane stupidity you and your self-styled stupemaniacle cohorts and fans have decided to cook up, but it is just so innane and mind numbingly stupid it is just a waste of time. And it takes such effort to dream up such drivel. Why do you and your friends thrive on insult and you do not instead put that same energy into making your own lives better. Through your attacks I can only conclude you are all very miserable and sorry for youselves. As I said, tiresome.

Fore Sam said...

Anon,
I did put some energy into making my life better yesterday by cashing some Pick 3 tickets at Saratoga. In between races, I had time to dream up something comical to mock a neurodiverse nitwit who misrepresents the unspeakable damage that was done to my child.

If I felt sorry for myself, I'd join Neurodiversity and call myself an Aspie so other people might also feel sorry for me too.

Anonymous said...

A 50ish former air force employee who now can't even get a volunteer position, makes his money at internet poker and the racetrack and spends his time abusing autistic people. I doubt you are real. You are probably some redneck joke someone dreamed up.

Fore Sam said...

Anon,
Only an idiot would play poker on the internet. You can't read people on the internet.

I abuse those who abuse autistic people. That includes nitwits, weirdos and mental misfits who have diagnosed themselves with Asperger's.

maxima said...

Foresam, according to anonymous you can diagnose people online now. I'm opening up my aspergers forum soon and going on disability. I mean the fact that I see through a fraud and she happens to be a woman means I abuse women online????

Anon, you need to refresh up on your logic.

Fore Sam said...

Maxima,
Why don't we diagnose each other with autism and head to Social Security to collect our winnings.

maxima said...

I'm printing out the online diagnosis and taking it to my doctor on monday.

Foresam we can have donation button on the forum and use the money to play online poker.

Fore Sam said...

Here's a funny video from one of my critics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B-I_3m5mfE
The good thing about this child's naivete is that she demonstrates that she is nothing like our autistic children, givng us more proof that everything associated with Neurodiversity is a sham.

Maxima, You can use your share for poker, I'll stick to thoroughbreds.

lisa said...

John I took a looksy at that video. The fact that this girl is not autistic is what stood out the most. She is just a silly girl having a type of look-at-me tantrum.

But why is it that all of these self-diagnosed aspies give you so much credit and attention?

Fore Sam said...

Lisa,
It's very difficult to teach a teenager anything. They don't want to listen to any old bastards explaining facts. It's hard to undo idiotic philosophies that they have latched onto.

Anonymous said...

John, give them 5 years and they will look back on this period of their lives with embarrassement and be trying desperately to unload their self imposed diagoses. When insurance companies will not give them car insurance because true Aspies are notoriously bad drivers due to gross motor clumsiness and to an inability to anticipate danger. This information is slowly coming out and affecting new drivers.

They will regret it when employers turn them down because they cannot get along with others and because they demand special lighting and extra breaks and God knows what else. Expenses most employers do not want. 5 years down the road and the silly teenager on that video and the dozens of others like her on Youtube will be in damage control trying to get their lives back.

Meanwhile people who are genuinely and seriously affected by Asperger's and Autism are the true losers. Half the AFFers are self diagnosed.

A few years ago when a teen wanted to make themselves special they would do it through outrageous clothing and hair styles. Now they are doing it by claiming to be autistics. You can change your clothes but getting rid of a medical diagnosis, if they have one, is harder. Look at our friend Amanda who no matter how hard she tries cannot get rid of the shizophrenia dx.

These kids are not helping themselves but like most teenagers, you can't tell them anything.

maxima said...

I think it's pathetic that people are seriously self-diagnosing themselves and claiming to be a spokesperson for a group of people that seriously have a disablity and probably wish they didn't have if given a choice. What comes around goes around, life has a strange way of giving dishonest people what they deserve.

BTW Anon, getting diagnosed with shizophrenia is a 6 month process. It's a very serious and usually an uncureable mental illness and doctors have to follow strict guidelines while diagnosing the patient. Believe me, Amanda's doctor didn't make a mistake when giving her that diagnosis.

Anonymous said...

Believe me, Amanda's doctor didn't make a mistake when giving her that diagnosis...

Yes, I agree, I was not suggesting that. It is probably the only accurate dx she has ever had. The thing is she went public with it and now she wants to change it, but it still dogs her. This is what I mean about these kids officially dxed or not. They have their faces on Youtube and now they will have a hard time retracting it later. With most of them their self dx is inaccurate. They just want their 15 minutes.

Mental illness is a terrible burden and nothing to be ashamed of. Lying about being auistic will catch up with her.

Anonymous said...

John, I didn't know you had your own
youtube account.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=JohnBestJr

I see Maxima is there too. What are your
plans for the site?

Anonymous said...

and now, the award for this years Worst Actress goes to...

(drumroll please)

Kurai-Gaka for her role as an autistic teen in Hate, Prejudice, Cafepress. Kurai earns this award for failing to exhibit any autistic symptoms during her video. Eye contact, voice intonation and facial expressions were markedly NT. Along with her award, Kurai will be granted a scholarship to the Amanda Baggs School of Autistic Acting.

Congratulations Kurai. Once you get your autism schtick down pat, I hope you enjoy perks like free room and board in a group home and your very own seat in a sheltered workshop.

maxima said...

Nice wallpaper Anon :-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Folks,

I agree that sometimes it seems as if some of those who claim ND credentials suffer from nothing more than teen-angst. The popular association between Newton, Eintein, etc. with the ASDs probably accounts for some of this trend.

In addition to the self diagnosed kids, though, do you think that autism is over diagnosed by professionals as well? Do you think that, for example, a five year old kid sitting in a regular kindergarten class, unassisted, with near-normal spoken language, normal academic skills, but perhaps some impaired non-verbal communication skills, social aloofness and other quirky behaviors should be diagnosed with autism - or do you think that sort of trivializes the disorder, which has obvious implications for those who are much more seriously affected?

Do you think that the 'spectrum' has become so wide that the diagnosis has sort of lost some of it's meaning?

Anonymous said...

They could be dxed with mild Asperger's if the parents wanted a lable for the kid which some parents seem determined to have, but a label can be a problem later on.

You were right when you said dx for this type of person trivializes the disorder. If everyone has autism, and it seems these days everyone wants it, at least on the level you describe, then the serious cases are not taken seriously which is wat really gets me angry.

Nine said...

That Kurai-Gaka is some out of control teen. How dare she make fun of the "fuck neurodiversity" thongs you sell on cafepress.com!

lisa said...

YES! to all of annons questions.

I would probably be diagnosed with "autism" if I were a child today. But really I am just a nerd.

Anonymous said...

Look at the following drama and as you do bear it in mind at all times that these people claim to be not only representative of and speaking for/on behalf of but advocating and performing activism on their behalf because they say they're just like your kids:

http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=432
http://rettdevil.blogspot.com/2007/07/psychotic-jerks-part-2-threats.html
http://crazy-meds1.blogspot.com/2007/08/naughty-naughty.html

maxima said...

Hey Foresam, Kurai-Gaka took down the videos about us. You know you can press charge against her since she posted your address, full name and social security number.

BTW, Kurai-Gaka if you fuck with my kid you will seriously regret it. Stay away from my family you loser.

Fore Sam said...

Maxima, I wrote to youtube to try to find out who did it. I haven't heard back from them yet.

lisa said...

SHE DID WHAT!!
Did I read that correctly? She posted your name, address, and SS #?

WOW!! I certainly hope that you press charges.

Fore Sam said...

Lisa, There was a picture of my house on there. I didn't see my social security # though. I wonder if one of them was in my driveway taking pictures.

What can I press charges for? Can I sue?

Brook Trout said...

John, I saw the picture of your house. I had assumed it was a fake. That's terrible if true - she deserves what she gets. I'm sorry that happened to you.

Anyways, I'm kind of caught in the middle of this debate. I posted anonymously (about the hypothetical five year old) - couldn't remember my google password!

Anyways, I have twin daughters who have a diagnosis of autistic disorder (i.e. not PDD-NOS or Asperger's). They were diagnosed at 4.0 with autism after being diagnosed at 3.0 with developmental delay. They are now nearly five, and they will be attending regular-ed kindergarten this fall - they've made a lot of progress in the past two years.

We didn’t seek out a label – but the kids needed special education services because they were becoming increasingly delayed relative to their peers and we had to take steps to try to remediate that. We also didn’t shop for this diagnosis – we didn’t want it – we denied it for a long time –but the diagnosis fits. They have it.

Today, academically, they're fine -ahead, even. But they do have the triad of impairments, but their level of actual impairment not as severe as it is with some kids and is getting better over time. For example, at 3.0 their language was considered 'disabled' and their IQ was in the MR range. At 4.0, it was delayed and the IQ was low normal. Now, at nearly five, their language is in the low end of ‘normal’ (don’t know their current IQ, but I suppose it is within the normal range, too). The imaginative play and social delays have also become more subtle. It’s all just fading back with maturity – who knows why?

Kids like mine do exist and I have no reason to think that they won’t grow up to be able to communicate as well as Karai-gai or whatever her name is. I’m not suggesting that many of these Aspie/HFA kids aren’t poseurs – my hunch is that many of them are – but kids some autistic kids do grow up to effectively communicate - pass as NT, even. Many of the autism parents I know have kids like this. I don’t know why some kids make progress on their own and some do not, but autism, in some cases at least, is not developmental stasis – it truly is a delay, and it seems possible, at this date and time, anyways, that they're catching up.

I don't know what to think about the negative talk. I'm not disputing your rights to espouse your opinions, and frankly, I agree with some of what you have to say, but at the same time, my kids will be able to read and understand the sorts of things that you are saying about HF autistic people and I don't want them to feel 'hated', know what I mean? I suppose I could try to hide their diagnosis from them, but the cat's already out of the bag on that one, unfortuneately (thank mom for that).

I do worry about what all the negativity surrounding the disorder will do to the lay public’s perceptions of my kids, and my kids own self esteem – all the talk about feces smearing and violence, etc – I know that's reality - that was my reality for three years until they started getting better - I don’t want people reading that stuff and then learning of my daughter’s diagnosis – I’m sure you can understand why. I know that must seem trivial and stupid to some of you reading this, but it’s my reality, and it’s not my kids fault that they were born with autism that and I wish they didn’t have to grow up feeling that they have to hide their diagnosis because of how the lay public perceives autistic people.

Sorry this is long – no time to edit (at work). Foresam, let me know if you’d rather not have someone as long winded and ambivalent as myself posting on your blog. I’m rather new to this debate and trying to talk with both “sides” on this issue – who knows why - taking in opposing viewpoints has its advantages when trying to get one's head around a topic, I guess.

Fore Sam said...

Brook Trout,
There is nothing here about hate. That's just Neurodiversity's way of demonizing me.

These HFA adults don't want to recognize the severity of low functioning autism. We wouldn't have any problems if they went about there own business of solving their own problems concerning their social ineptitude. But, they have decided that every level of autism is something to celebrate and they want us to refrain from helping severely affected children.

As much as I dislike talking in derogatory terms about my son's condition, it's essential to enumerate the huge differences between those kids who can't function at all and your basic neuronitwit like David Andrews who is basically a horse's ass looking for excuses for his idiotic behavior.

My opinions about the nitwits from Neurodiversity should not be taken as bias against rational people who are on the autism spectrum.

Brook Trout said...

I get your point then, John. This is some of the part that we agree on. I do think that some of these kids (literally - teens, young adults) are adopting this disorder is a way to feel "different" or "special". I remember when I first got the girl's DX, going over to Wrongplanet, and reading this thread where everyone was posting their IQ (people were apologizing for their low 130 IQs and such) and I just thought, wtf? Some of the adults, though, adults with kids who tend towards the ND message - I don't think they're trying to harm kids or trivializing the impact that LF autism can have on a family - I really don't. Personally, I think it would be best to ignore the teens and such who are making a mockery of parents who are dealing with difficulties that they can't even imagine.

PS - wish I was back in NH these days - 102 down here in the triangle, yikes.

Kurai-Gaka said...

"Hey Foresam, Kurai-Gaka took down the videos about us. You know you can press charge against her since she posted your address, full name and social security number."

Hold on, I never made that channel! Where do you get your ideas from? But then again, what do you expect from this blog...

"BTW, Kurai-Gaka if you fuck with my kid you will seriously regret it. Stay away from my family you loser."

Erm, excuse me, I didn't even know you HAD a kid. Why would I abuse a kid anyway? That's just pathetic. How could I get anywhere near your family? i don't even know what part of the world you live in. Paranoia is an illness, you know, worse than autism...

I'm glad you liked the video, anyway :) took you long enough to actually find it seeing as you stalk everyone and make up stupid rumours so you can just cut that crap, John and your fanclub, about me making a youtube channel about you. I have better things to do, like, study at school for instance.

Kurai-Gaka said...

Also, John and his fanclub, if you can write obscene, exploitative crap on a blog, then rightfully one from the opposing side should be able to express their dislike of you on the internet (even if that is in the form of a film).

I will take my film off of Youtube when you take your blog down. If you choose to keep the blog up, the movie stays up.

Fore Sam said...

Jane,
I have no opinion about who posted my personal info..

Your video didn't bother me. Make more if you like. When you grow up, you'll realize the error in your thinking.

Anonymous said...

I am kurai-gaka's mother, and I can assure all you nuts out there in lala land that she is autistic and has been from birth. She has been diagnosed by doctors and educational psychologists and has been fortunate enough to have support from communication disorder units from nursery through to secondary education.
I can guarantee that she has no personal information about anyone who has been attacking her on this blog.
As for this so called youtube channel she is supposed to have created, she has better things to do with her time. Also I am aware of the video she made against you, but I feel that she was justified in doing so as the contents of this blog vastly outweigh anything she has said.
If I see any more of your libelous claims then the matter will be reported to the appropriate authorities.

Fore Sam said...

KG's Mom,
Your kid is not autistic.

watson said...

Well, Kurai-Gaka's mother, I am intrigued. I have watched the video and I agree wholeheartedly with John and other parents of children with autism here, that your daughter is not autistic.

According to your daughter's profile on AFF, she was diagnosed with HFA/Aspergers at the age of three, placed in a special nursery school for children on the spectrum, and she was surrounded by low-functioning children with autism That would have been in 1994. Correct?

I'm curious, because my son is exactly the same age as your daughter and as far as I know there wasn't anything called "a spectrum" in 1994. And Aspergers Syndrome was added to the DSM in 1994.

Would you mind telling us more about your daughter's autism?

Anonymous said...

Kurai-Gaka's mommy. Get a net nanny program for your daughter's computer. Block websites like youtube. Problem solved.

Nine said...

How can you conclude that Kurai-Gaka is not autistic based on her YouTube vidoes? Since when has it been reliable to undiagnose people via YouTube?

Anonymous said...

Kurai's mother here again. This is the last time I will reply to anything on this blog. My daughter was actually diagnosed as AUTISTIC at the age of 3 although I knew she was from birth. For 13 years she has had speech and language therapy as well as constant encouragement to give eye contact and all other aspects of verbal and non-verbal communication.
She was later diagnosed with Aspergers, she did not have learning difficulties, only communication difficulties.
I am extremely proud of my daughter and although I hated the fact that she was autistic when she was young, I would not change a thing about her now. She may be one of the lucky one's because she's living here in Scotland getting all the help she needed.
I have never had to justify my daughters existence and never will again. You must understand that there is a place for everyone in this world

watson said...

Kurai's mother, So Kurai wasn't diagnosed with Kanner's Syndrome or High Functioning Autism when she was three. Do you think "Autistic" was an actual diagnosis or a description of Kurai's behaviour?

You see, I find your daughter's fluid body movements, eye-contact, animated facial expressions, voice modulation and ability to concentrate and relate to an audience to be so unlike my sons. In fact, she appears to me to be perfectly normal.

You say that she was autistic when she was young. Did she grow out of her autistic behaviour solely through speech and language therapy and encouragement to give eye contact and all other aspects of verbal and non-verbal communication, or did you try other interventions as well?

What I find difficult to understand about the Neurodiversity Movement which your daughter apparently supports is that they don't believe in intervention at all, even to the extent of not supporting parents who encourage their children with autism to make eye-contact or to speak. They call it "abuse". How do you feel about that?

You also say that you "hated the fact that she was autistic when she was young". Many of us here hate autism too. Kurai's behaviour when she was young may very well be exactly what some of us are still coping with day in and day out, after years and years. So it's not surprising that you see your daughter as "one of the lucky ones".

You say that she got "all the help she needed". Would you deny our children all the help they need to develop into teenagers as able and competent as your daughter?

Anonymous said...

Aren't you on the same ward as "The Elf God" isn't your room across the hall from her's?

I think somebody forgot their medication again. but an A for effort just the same.. if we're ever looking for a really bad actress to play a female Norman Bates playing her own mother in a B movie well then expect a call.


"Kuru" you are such a faker, go have a fuck-yourself-party along with the rest of them, rejoince for you've earned your place amongst their bullshitters club with this crap (and yay for you!),
Asshole.

Anonymous said...

Brook Trout here - google account is not working again. I don't quite get the problem, but anyways...

watson, with due respect, you have to keep in mind that this is a 16 year old child and she's caught up in some sort of social movement that seems to rub many folks here the wrong way. I'm not overly familiar with the ND movement, but from what I gather, they actually don't consider useful educational therapies and such to be a bad thing - abuse, as you say. Sometimes it seems that they feel that way about lots and lots of ABA (like, pre-schoolers getting 40 hours/week of therapy), but I've never read anywhere that the philosophy of ND is critical of things such as language and occupational therapy in order to increase a person's ability to communicate and function in the world.

It seems possible that the teen-angst, WrongPlanet crowd (you know, the ones that tend to think that autistic folks are actually superior to non-autistic folks, who tend to be self diagnosed, tend to view themselves as tormented geniouses) has warped the core message of neuro diversity into something like what you describe, but I don't get the sense that those at the nucleus of the movement (Joel Smith, et. al.) are critical of parents who seek to help their children overcome their impairments.

Finally, as I stated previously, my own daughters, having been diagnosed with 'full syndrome' autistic disorder, are nonetheless progressing rapidly, and a year out from the diagnosis, have language that is close to within the normal range and will be attending regular kindergarten this fall. I am encouraged by their progress and do hope that some day they can communicate as well as Karei-* Kids like this do exist - are common, even - though whether or not they should be diagnosed with 'autism' or something else is a different debate. I don't think you should be quite so skeptical that this girl carried a real diagnosis when young, though obviously she has progressed to the point where she is 'indistinguishable' to a lay person, at least in the youtube environment.

I also get the sense that her mother does not have an antipathy towards therapy and I do not get the sense that she's hostile to those who seek therapy for their children.

As a parent of two autistic children, albiet high functioning ones, I hate to see parents going at each other like this. Despite the functioning level of our children, we all do have more in common than not, and its discouraging to see this breakdown into 'camps' between parents and the autistic children themselves due to some immature hikacking of the tenets of neuro-diversity.

Fore Sam said...

Brook Trout, You're fortunate compared to some of us whose children can't speak.

Neurodiversity talks out of both sides of its' mouth. It seeks respect and accommodations yet, it tries to deny help to kids who need it most by using character assassination to discredit any person who helps an autistic child by addressing the mercury that caused the problem.

Since no sane person would advocate allowing anyone to suffer from mercury poisoning for a lifetime, the only logical conclusion that can be drawn about Neurodiversity is that the leaders of this nonsense are drug company shills. The trillions of dollars the drug companies stand to lose is their motive.

Fore Sam said...

PS
We must make allowances for stupidity to explain Autism Diva, Kevin Leitch and a few others.

Anonymous said...

If speech and language therapy alone caused autistic individuals to be indistinguishable from NT's, as Kurai appears to be, there would be almost no autistic adults in countries that have good educational systems.

Anonymous said...

Neurodiversity wants disability compensations while not actually wanting to be considered a disability. Neurodiversity wants people to believe that they all have above average to genius IQ's, while claiming to be too impaired to find a way to work. Neurodiversity wants to ignore the people truly impaired by autism, by banning them from their forums and calling them unintelligent. Neurodiversity routinely villianizes parents who try to help their children by comparing them to murderers and child abusers.

The majority of neurodiversity, aspies for freedom and wrong planet types do not represent the face of autism. The image they represnt is one of a socially aloof genius, one who may marry and even have a family, but can not handle the rigors of real employment and requires their government to subsidize their life. They demand what they want and assume to think that this meets the needs of all autistic people. While the autistic adults who are truly affected and truly can not advocate for themselves are living quiet unknown lives in day programs, sheltered workshops and residential facilities.

Anonymous said...

John, yes, I had for a moment forgotten that you believe that autism is caused by mercury poisoning. I agree that many/most parents of children who are not so severely impaired tend to view this outlook and the treatments it implies as extreme. I do not feel a need to engage anyone in causation debates, however, because it's futile, but I respect your beliefs and I do not believe that by seeking treatment for a medical condition that you perceive to be real, that you are cruel. I admit, if my children had not progressed as they have progressed, I might have more seriously considered seeking biomedically therapies for my children. The girl's mother says the same thing. Until one walks in your shoes... and all that.

anon. - kids do recover with educational therapies and some recover with less than that. Not all kids recover with educational therapies. Most kids don't, but I do not think the treatment or therapy plays as large a role in this as many parents believe. This is just my belief, based on observation of my own children and the children of a few other autism parents that I know, nothing more.

All I know is that my daughters have had nothing more than developmental preschool and speach and language therapy. They still are autistic - they still have the triad of impairments but they are fading. If I were to make a 'before and after' video of my daughters at the ages of 3 and then again at the age of 4.5, it would be as convincing as any of the parent testimonials from the DAN! doctor's sites or the ARI site.

I do think that the fact that autistic children do develop, often in fits and starts, is used against parents (perhaps not intentionally - I'm not in the camp that believes that all biomed practioners are shyters) to convince them that whatever therapy is in place at the moment is working. If I had started my girls on something when they were 3, having made the progress that they have made in the past year and a half, I would surely be convinced that whatever treatment was in place at the time was 'the magic bullet', so to speak. I see this as much in the educational (ABA, etc) camp as the biomedical camp, by the way - parents tend to attribute whatever progress their kids make to whatever treatments are in place. I guess I was negligent in the past by not having my daughters in intensive therapies,etc, but at least I have the perspective of knowing that all of their progress is due to simple maturity and not due to something that we've done for them.

This is not to say that all kids make progress like this - of course, many don't. But many do, also. And yes, John, I do consider myself lucky. As someone else here said, we were 'grazed' by autism - didn't take a direct hit, apparently, though I have great empathy for all of you struggling with more severe behaviors and dealing with the fatigue, stress, and frustration that follows with that.

--Brook Trout

Anonymous said...

"If speech and language therapy alone caused autistic individuals to be indistinguishable from NT's, as Kurai appears to be, there would be almost no autistic adults in countries that have good educational systems."

The above is true. That girl does not even appear to have Asperger's which, as debilitating as that can be, is so mild compared to LFA.

When I looked at that video I saw what I imagine was an Amanda Baggs ten years ago, angry, disenfranchised, looking for something to latch onto.

Jane, get out while you're still pretty enough to look normal. It would be awful to check Youtube ten years from now and see you fat, staring at the ceiling, sitting in a wheelchair with a voice box and a diaper claiming you regressed.

Anonymous said...

Kurai's mother again. I wouldn't say that my daughter is cured. She is talented enough to make a 3 minute video looking like she is NT even though she is not. She has been studying drama for 2 years at school and she has no problem looking into a camera, it is not human.
Also her name is not Jane, that is the character's name.
You must remember that autism is a spectrum and everyone is different.
You should use your time constructively with your kids instead of wasting time on this blog feeling sorry for yourselves. just love your children for who they are and not for what they are suffering from.
Kurai is only against therapies that involve injecting little kids with all kinds of chemicals. This does not include vaccinations.
you are all picking on a 16 year old child. But she has researched her condition online for 2 years.
That doesn't mean she is self diagnosed. you may as well say I self diagnosed my own kidney failure and recommended dialysis and then a transplant!

Anonymous said...

Foresam,

Don't argue with Kurai's mother. You're probably wrong about her not being autistic. In comparison to the 16 years of her mother living with her to the 3 mintues of examining a movie in which she was acting and taking the persona of a different person, who do you think in this arguement is going to win?

I just think that you are just jumping to conclusions, putting words into her mouth and acting particularly foul towards this 16 year old girl. You're all grown ups and you act like playground bullies.

I have never seen one helpful piece of advice on this blog. It would help if you wrote advice about how to cope with your child or information on therapies or things like that but no. You just write vile rubbish towards individuals who feel that their autism is a thing to be accepted. Well, many parents have progessive views towards autism and want to find a way to cope with it. Writing horrible and frightening things about others is certainly not a healthy way of coping with autism. I know you guys are angry and rightfully so but this is no way to treat someone.

John, just let go of Kurai. Stop obsessing over this teenager and please write something worth reading.

Fore Sam said...

Anon,
Didn't Mom of Kurai say she was Asperger's, not autistic? You want advice on how to cope with autism, what behaviors are troubling you? I've talked about how to cure it many times. What, specifically would you like to know?

Mom of Kurai, This isn't about feeling sorry for ourselves, it's more like being angry about the fact that we are being lied to by doctors and politicians. I do feel sorry for all of the children of Nweurodiverse nitwits though, whose parents advocate doing nothing to help them.

It's the untested chemicals that were injected into out kids that caused the autism, Mom. So now we have to rely on competent doctors like the Geiers and DAN doc's to help us figure out which chemicals can nullify the effects of the dangerous chemicals from the vaccines.

Anonymous said...

Kurai is only against therapies that involve injecting little kids with all kinds of chemicals.

ME TOO!! I've been fighting for years to get people to stop pumping little kids full of chemotherapy and just accept they cancer.

Anonymous said...

I don't believe for one minute that Kurai Kaka's mom has been here on this blog. It is the girl herself playing sock puppet mom.

She comes here shouting her stupidity then says no one should pick on her because she is only 16. Another person did the same thing, arguing with everyone then saying, I'm only 18 and you should know better. Does being a teenager mean you should get away with bad behaviour, or does that only apply to aspies?

'Jane' is nothing but a hysterical child tantruming then getting upset when she is called on it.

Anonymous said...

Anon, here's the difference, now please try to follow, Cancer can kill you if you do nothing, autism itself will not kill you. Got it?

Sure, if you run out into the street and get hit by a car and or don't know how to swim one might drown. Those are things that can be remedy by education and some $2 locks. It can't be remedied by a needle, unless that needle is full of something paralyzing.

signed - Biscuits and Butter

Fore Sam said...

Biscuits and Butter,
Why don't you go give Paul Offutt a blow job.

watson said...

Brook Trout said...

"watson, with due respect, you have to keep in mind that this is a 16 year old child and she's caught up in some sort of social movement"

Brook Trout, That is precisely why I addressed my comments to Kurai's mother, not Kurai herself.


"I'm not overly familiar with the ND movement, but from what I gather, they actually don't consider useful educational therapies and such to be a bad thing - abuse, as you say. "

Well, don't you think you should become more familiar with a movement's philosophy before defending it?

"Sometimes it seems that they feel that way about lots and lots of ABA (like, pre-schoolers getting 40 hours/week of therapy), but I've never read anywhere that the philosophy of ND is critical of things such as language and occupational therapy in order to increase a person's ability to communicate and function in the world."

So you haven't read that teaching a child to make eye-contact is equivalent to "child abuse" because eye-contact is excruciatingly painful for a child with autism? Read how Amanda Baggs describes how she was made to speak and how that and toilet-training were counterproductive.

"It seems possible that the teen-angst, WrongPlanet crowd (you know, the ones that tend to think that autistic folks are actually superior to non-autistic folks, who tend to be self diagnosed, tend to view themselves as tormented geniouses) has warped the core message of neuro diversity into something like what you describe, but I don't get the sense that those at the nucleus of the movement (Joel Smith, et. al.) are critical of parents who seek to help their children overcome their impairments."

Joel Smith is at the nucleus of the Neurodiversity movement? Is that right?

He seems to be very critical of the ND movement and what transpires at Autistic Pride gatherings. They make him "cry".


"Finally, as I stated previously, my own daughters, having been diagnosed with 'full syndrome' autistic disorder, are nonetheless progressing rapidly, and a year out from the diagnosis, have language that is close to within the normal range and will be attending regular kindergarten this fall."

I don't want to seem to trivialise your daughters' problems but "full-syndrome autistic disorder" means Kanner's Autism to me.

My son regressed in development, gradually lost all language, and the ability to communicate, and developed Kanner's Autism - after vaccination at the age of two.

You say that your daughters' language is close to normal. My son didn't have any useful language at all at three. At four he still didn't recognise his own name and he couldn't tell you his name if you asked him. He spent his days opening and closing doors and drawers and playing with lightswitches, and his nights turning on all the lights and running around the house, bouncing on the furniture.

He bit, scratched, kicked and banged his head on us when we tried to interfere with whatever he was doing.

At kindergarten, aged four, he wandered around without purpose, his aide had to keep him away from anything hard that he might pick up and use to strike another child over the head - hammers, for instance.

He attacked children if they touched him or got too close to him, and he frequently urinated in the sandpit.

Speech therapy did nothing.

"I am encouraged by their progress and do hope that some day they can communicate as well as Karei-* Kids like this do exist - are common, even - though whether or not they should be diagnosed with 'autism' or something else is a different debate. I don't think you should be quite so skeptical that this girl carried a real diagnosis when young, though obviously she has progressed to the point where she is 'indistinguishable' to a lay person, at least in the youtube environment."

Why shouldn't I be skeptical? I am just as skeptical of your daughters' diagnoses. Parents of children in the 90s whose children regressed and developed autism after vaccination weren't just dealing with speech delay and shy toddlers.

"I also get the sense that her mother does not have an antipathy towards therapy and I do not get the sense that she's hostile to those who seek therapy for their children."

Brook Trout, Why are you jumping in talking about what you think Kurai's mother's attitude would be towards therapy, before she's even responded to my message? How can you possibly know anything about what she thinks or her attitude towards therapy?

watson said...

Kurai's mother said...

"Kurai is only against therapies that involve injecting little kids with all kinds of chemicals. This does not include vaccinations."

So injecting kids with the chemicals in vaccines is okay, is it?

Even when they cause brain damage?

Brook Trout said...

Watson - her mother said she got therapy, that's why I concluded that she wasn't against it.

I'm not going to argue with you - didn't come here for that, but you should realize that not even all of Kanner's "classic" autistic kids would be considered low functioning by today's standards. Most could talk, a couple went on to lead satisfactor lives as adults (not completely independent, but functional).

My daughters are autistic by the standards of the ADOS and CARS. The scored just in the autistic disorder range at 4.0 - 30 on the ADOS, iirc, 11, and 13 on the CARS I believe. You have a very high (or low) standard about what qualifies as "real autism", but you're wrong if you think that there are no kids who are truly autistic by the today's standards and yet get better, sometimes to the point as passing as typical.

You're right, I should say out of this debate. I have no dog in this fight. I apologize for coming here - wasn't trying to stir the pot, really. I was trying to bridge a gap, but I'm not equipped to do it, unfortuneatley. I haven't the wit, patience, or energy to keep up with your folks, so I'll leave it at that. I wish you the best, truly.

Fore Sam said...

Biscuits and Butter,
I gave you your instructions, get out of here.

Brook Trout said...

Not sure if you're referring to me, John (I'm not Butter and Biscuits), but assuming you are, ok.

Fore Sam said...

Brook Trout, No. not referring to you. Biscuits and whatever wrote something I deleted and will be the only one who understands my comment. I don't have any problem with you.

watson said...

Brook Trout said...

"Watson - her mother said she got therapy, that's why I concluded that she wasn't against it."


Kurai's mother said her daughter got speech and language therapy.

Neurodiversity isn't against speech and language therapy. And standard speech therapy is totally useless for a non-verbal, low-functioning child who cannot relate to people.


"I'm not going to argue with you - didn't come here for that, but you should realize that not even all of Kanner's "classic" autistic kids would be considered low functioning by today's standards. Most could talk,...."

Many of Kanner's children could talk, meaning that they were physically able to produce words and did, but they couldn't use words to communicate, or couldn't use words to communicate in the normal way. Big difference.

Echolalia is not real communicative language, although an echolalic child can communicate some needs.

Kanner's children treated their parents and other people as objects, just as my son did. They would all have been considered low-functioning by today's standards because they couldn't relate to people. And I think the key word here is "relate".

A child who can't hear cannot speak but can relate.

There has been a change since roughly 1999. I'm finding that many newly-diagnosed children can relate.

Many pro-ND parents taking about their young children with autism say that they have some language, smile and laugh, kiss their parents and enjoy jokes.

That doesn't sound anything like Autism to me.

Kanner certainly wouldn't have recognised these children.

....a couple went on to lead satisfactor lives as adults (not completely independent, but functional)."

Yes, a couple.

One of them operated a photocopier for a living.

"My daughters are autistic by the standards of the ADOS and CARS. The scored just in the autistic disorder range at 4.0 - 30 on the ADOS, iirc, 11, and 13 on the CARS I believe. You have a very high (or low) standard about what qualifies as "real autism", but you're wrong if you think that there are no kids who are truly autistic by the today's standards and yet get better, sometimes to the point as passing as typical."

I thought that "Autistic Disorder" meant low-functioning - Kanner's type autism.

By today's standards, getting better wouldn't surprise me.

A big change occurred after the link was made between vaccination and autism, and I very much doubt that many, many children diagnosed with autism today would have got an "Autism" diagnosis in the 90s.

"You're right, I should say out of this debate. I have no dog in this fight. I apologize for coming here - wasn't trying to stir the pot, really. I was trying to bridge a gap, but I'm not equipped to do it, unfortuneatley. I haven't the wit, patience, or energy to keep up with your folks, so I'll leave it at that. I wish you the best, truly.

I didn't mean to imply that you should stay out of this debate. My problem with ND is that it is anti-treatment, anti-cure and PRO-VACCINATION, and they have taken it upon themselves to speak for children who have low-functioning autism, many of whom have been damaged by vaccines and became autistic, like my son.

Do you think that parents whose children become autistic after an encephalitis should accept - no, embrace their children's neurodiversity?

Brook Trout said...

Watson, no, trust me, I don't. I can't imagine how awful that must have been for you - having an acute reaction like that. My kids were autistic from birth (missed all social and language milestones from smiling onward), so at least I never had the heartache of normal development followed by regression. I can't imagine what that must have been like.

I think some of what I understand ND to be (which is apparently flawed in the eyes of most of you) is good for our kids - who doesn't want acceptence and accomodation for their children? And yet, I do think that there are many who consider themselves part of this movement who are trivializing the struggles of parents of more affected children and mock them for their beliefs and mischaracterize their attempts to help their children as "abuse" and such. I'm with you there, really, but I guess I'm not ready to throw out the baby with the bath water, so to speak. I see some good in there at the core, but feel that the movement has been adopted by a bunch of alienated kids who may or may not have any sort of disorder -but perhaps I'm just naive. I started off reading Joel Smith's essay when the girls were first diagnosed, and it did give me some comfort, so I suppose I'm still influenced by that.

Also, you are correct that my daughters would not have been diagnosed with autism in past years. Our developmental pediatrician, who's the 'go to' doc in these parts and been in the game for decades, said as much. She said that they might have recieved something like "semantic/pragmatic language disorder" or "minimal brain dysfunction", but not autism.

But by today's broadened criteria, they do get the diagnosis - and they do have the triad of impairments, it's just a bit more subtle these days. No- they're not just 'shy' or 'quirky' - they have issues, trust me. I have no idea how they'll do in their regular kindergarten class, but I am grateful that they at least get the chance to sit in one. FWIW, they were much more severely delayed until around 3.5 or so, however, so believe me, I can relate to some of what parents of LF kids are going through (days and days without sleep, constant screaming day and night, constantly dealing with their rituals and resistence to anything changing in the environment, having to watch them constantly, no recipricated affection, never able to take them out of the house, abandonment by friends and relatives, etc.) and yes, If they hadn't started getting better on their own, I don't know how I'd be handling it - probably not embracing or celebrating it.

I hope that you are making good progress with your therapies.

Anonymous said...

Cancer can kill you if you do nothing, autism itself will not kill you. Got it?

You are saying that if something isn't fatal, it should be left alone? Define fatal condition because not all cancers kill right away. Maybe some people are happy living only a short life. You are infringing on their longevity-diversity. Bigot.

Nine said...

Brook Trout,

Thank you for your posts. I am on the neurodiversity side of the debate. Like you, I desire a bridge to be built between the gap between the two sides of the debate, and I appreciate your discussion of the topic. I would like to respond to a few points in your post.

You said, "I do think that there are many who consider themselves part of this movement who are trivializing the struggles of parents of more affected children and mock them for their beliefs and mischaracterize their attempts to help their children as 'abuse' and such." I think some of the people in the neurodiversity movement are not trying to accuse parents of abuse, but are instead saying that while some things that parents do to their children that are attempts at helping their children, but instead end up causing harm to their children. I think these people in the neurodiversity movement want to tell parents about the harm that they believe is caused by certain treatments so that the parents can have some knowledge of the negative consequences of the treatment that they might not have otherwise known about. In the essay, "Cure, Recovery, and Prevention of Autism", Phil Schwarz wrote, "I think that most people who seek a 'cure' for their loved ones' autism do so with the best of intentions: they see their loved ones having difficulty or inability to function, and want to help them overcome those difficulties or inabilities. However, the road to Hell is paved with the best of intentions" (url http://www.autistics.org/library/pschwarz.html). I think some neurodiversity advocates simply want today's autistic children to avoid some of the pain they went through when they were children.

There are some consider themselves to be in the neurodiversity movement who are extremists, and that is unfortunate. However, there are extremists in all causes. Kurai addresses this issue in one of her YouTube videos where she gives an example of people bullying a Muslim girl at school because of the actions of terrorists, and says that the terrorists and extremists are harming the cause they claim to support (url http://www.youtube.com/user/KuraiGaka2).

There are some autistic people in the neurodiversity movement who say things that I can understand being seen as insensitive towards parents of autistic children. However, there are parents of autistic children who say things that I feel are insensitive towards autistic people. I don't think the insensitive autistic people or insensitive neurodiversity advocates should be reflected onto all neurodiversity advocates or all autistic people. Similarly, I don't think that some parents being insensitive should be reflected onto all parents. There are sensitive and insensitive people on both sides of the fense.

I see you mentioned Joel Smith. I'm not sure where it is right now, but he has written an essay where he criticizes actions in the neurodiversity movement.

I really think it is best interests of the two sides of the debate to work together and find some common ground instead of getting angry at each other. Ultimately, both sides want a lot of the same things, which is to help autistic children and adults.

watson said...

Brook Trout said...

"Watson, no, trust me, I don't. I can't imagine how awful that must have been for you - having an acute reaction like that. My kids were autistic from birth (missed all social and language milestones from smiling onward), so at least I never had the heartache of normal development followed by regression. I can't imagine what that must have been like."

It is very difficult when you discover that the people you trust most with your baby, your friendly family doctor or pediatrician and their smiling nurses are just doing their jobs.

The doctor's job is to persuade you to vaccinate, to dismiss reactions of any kind so that he can keep up his, or the clinic's, immunisation quota, and get his six-monthly bonus. And when your child is damaged by vaccines, no one who has persuaded you to allow them to vaccinate your baby time and time again "for his own protection", or who has administered the vaccine wants to know.

With a damaged child, you can't do anything, they can't do anything, so then you turn to 'alternative' health practitioners to try to get you and your child out of the mess you're in.

When you realize how little doctors know about the immune system and what constitutes good health, you lose trust in conventional medicine. You realise that they are in the sickness business not the health business, and they do little more than prescribe pills, and push vaccines. Some of them who don't vaccinate their own children at all or selectively vaccinate because they are aware of the dangers, still persuade and bully, and frighten other parents into vaccinating their own babies. They have to, or they would lose their jobs.

As a parent of a vaccine-injured child, finding out that there are doctors and pediatricians who don't vaccinate their own children because of the risks is very hard to take. Worse, is the comment you get from many medical professionals and other parents which goes something like this:

"It is unfortunate that your child is damaged by vaccines, but if we didn't immunise all children there would be outbreaks of killer diseases and many, many more children would be brain-damaged or die from vaccine-preventable diseases."

I have heard these words maybe a dozen times over the years. And these people really mean what they say.

How would you describe that attitude?

"I think some of what I understand ND to be (which is apparently flawed in the eyes of most of you) is good for our kids - who doesn't want acceptence and accomodation for their children?

No one. But ND wants you to accept your daughters' difficulties. It is anti-treatment, anti-therapy, anti-cure - and pro-vaccine.


"And yet, I do think that there are many who consider themselves part of this movement who are trivializing the struggles of parents of more affected children and mock them for their beliefs and mischaracterize their attempts to help their children as "abuse" and such. I'm with you there, really, but I guess I'm not ready to throw out the baby with the bath water, so to speak. I see some good in there at the core, but feel that the movement has been adopted by a bunch of alienated kids who may or may not have any sort of disorder -but perhaps I'm just naive. I started off reading Joel Smith's essay when the girls were first diagnosed, and it did give me some comfort, so I suppose I'm still influenced by that.

There are many like Joel Smith and Thomas McKean, who are apparently disgusted by what is happening. As I said, Joel was brought to tears by the attitude of high-functioning autistics towards low-functioning people with autism at Autistic Pride days. Thomas McKean is outraged that self-identified "autistics" are allowed to address parents at autism conferences. Donna Williams has also criticised Aspie attitudes.

"Also, you are correct that my daughters would not have been diagnosed with autism in past years. Our developmental pediatrician, who's the 'go to' doc in these parts and been in the game for decades, said as much. She said that they might have recieved something like "semantic/pragmatic language disorder" or "minimal brain dysfunction", but not autism. But by today's broadened criteria, they do get the diagnosis - and they do have the triad of impairments, it's just a bit more subtle these days. No- they're not just 'shy' or 'quirky' - they have issues, trust me."

But, trust me, other children are just speech delayed, shy or quirky, and they are given the Aspergers diagnosis which to many means they have autism. They were not diagnosing these children with autism or even Aspergers in the 90s. Now there is an overlap with ADD, which, as you might already know, was called Minimal Brain Dysfuncion (MBD) until parents protested and got the name changed.

"I have no idea how they'll do in their regular kindergarten class, but I am grateful that they at least get the chance to sit in one. FWIW, they were much more severely delayed until around 3.5 or so, however, so believe me,.......... and yes, If they hadn't started getting better on their own, I don't know how I'd be handling it - probably not embracing or celebrating it."

But that's what ND wants everyone to do. They believe that autism is just "a healthy variation in neurological hardwiring". You don't believe that, do you?

Activists apparently don't know that autism means the nightmare you've described so well:

"I can relate to some of what parents of LF kids are going through (days and days without sleep, constant screaming day and night, constantly dealing with their rituals and resistence to anything changing in the environment, having to watch them constantly, no recipricated affection, never able to take them out of the house, abandonment by friends and relatives, etc.)"

But you also have to look at autism from the older child's perspective: being laughed at by both adults and children, being mimicked, being called names like "weirdo" , not having any friends.

When I was talking to my son's SLT years ago about the problem I had finding friends for my son to play with, she said, and this is a direct quote:

"Oh, well you can't blame them, can you? I wouldn't want my children playing with your son."

"I hope that you are making good progress with your therapies."

Yes, thank you. My son has done remarkably well with the biomed, special diets and therapies we've tried - among them the biomed, special diets and therapies that ND would deny children with autism today. They believe in love and acceptance, I believe in love and action.

I hope your daughters keep up their progress, Trout. What kept me going was hope of recovery and each small step towards recovery that my son made.

watson said...

Nine said...
"In the essay, "Cure, Recovery, and Prevention of Autism", Phil Schwarz wrote, "I think that most people who seek a 'cure' for their loved ones' autism do so with the best of intentions: they see their loved ones having difficulty or inability to function, and want to help them overcome those difficulties or inabilities. However, the road to Hell is paved with the best of intentions"

Nine, What would Phil Schwarz know about low-functioning autism?

Anonymous said...

Someone suggested on Amanda's blog that she should take up journalism because she is such a good writer, especially considering how low functioning she is. She replied that she was seriously considering doing that.

Can you imagine if that mad cow started writing for the main stream media? The garbage she would be spouting.

Mind you, can you imagine being interviewed by a woman in a wet diaper who takes time in between questions to hand flap?

The way things are going it could happen.

laurentius rex said...

For goodness sake .....

There are many adults with continence problems you are fascists and believe me there is only one way your way will go and that is to Hell.

You aquaint the accident of pissing yourself with mental capability

You know what wait till it is your turn as your much vaunted speech and faculties desert you under the influence of a cerebral vascular accident. Do you want to be relegated to the dregs of society then?

My mum wore diapers, did that make her less capable of political activism, sitting on a disability tribunal or lecturing to post grad students?

I'll warrant that Stephen Hawking has to wear diapers

As for me I don't so watch out I shall simply have to piss on you.

You have lost the argument because truth is not on your side, vicious and petty "Im allright jack" attitudes are

You are not alright, you transmitted your genes to your kids.

If you were true believers you would be chelating yourselves because mercury has got you by the balls, (don't forget the Lupron)

You don't just insult my mother here, you are insulting your erstwhile ally Droopy.

Yes Maxima if you can't contain yourself at a rather puerile joke, I think you need to be wearing diapers too.

My little sojourn with your blogs is finished, and so are you all.

Anonymous said...

True enough that lots of adults can develop incontinence problems. It is a shame when that happens and awful for the person themself. I have known adults who needed diapers through no fault of their own. I think the problem with Amanda Baggs is that her incontinence is a choice like all her other 'symptoms.' So why should she be taken seriously?

The Lilac Pilgrim said...

Wait, who's Jane?

It's laughable that you think Kurai-Gaka's name is Jane. This is the same kind of logic that would mean that Zach Braff's name is really John Dorian, or that Keanu Reeves is really called Neo, or that John C Reilly is actually a Sasquatch.

When you act, you take on a different persona. When you see Kurai in real life, you notice that her eyes still go everywhere. Looking into someone's eyes is like a chore for her.

Watson, you say that the Neurodiverse don't like any intervention. What is love an encouragement if it isn't intervention? You cannot raise a child like veal. There has to be some sort of intervention in their life for them to grow proerly. Even an NT child needs support and encouragement, which technically is intervention. Otherwise, you get not a child but a neurotic creature, like Smeagol.

However, if it is certainly true that some ND parents will not intervene at all in their children's lives, that is certainly cruel. How will these babies change themselves and cook their own dinners and give themselves hugs?

In all seriousness, I believe that every autistic child needs some sort of therapy. But chelation and suchlike meds are not the answer. They are a clever mind trick. Any improvement by the child is most likely a slow realisation by the child of the world around them due to the fact that parents are in a way forced to spend more time with them.

Furthermore, on Kurai-Gaka's behalf, I'd like to point out that a 16 year old Scottish aspie isn't about to waste her time scouring US records (or just this blog) for all the info needed about John Best or anyone for that matter, just to publicise him further.
What good comes from that? Only hassle from this blog and its fanatics happens, as clearly shown. Kurai only has two channels, and between the two, there is only one video against John Best, and I think she was fair in her statement that her video will only be taken down if this blog is also. Let's face it; one short video does not equal or exceed a whole blog of a few years' worth of hatred, vile "humour" and abuse.

Fore Sam said...

Pilgrim, "Jane" is easier than "Kurai Gaka".

There is no hatred here. I simply point out the fact that everything about Neurodiversity is a sham. The poor, ASD people who fell for the sham need to be slapped in the head until that dawns on them for their own good.

Anonymous said...

If Kurai Kaka is Scottish why does she have an American accent?

If she is an aspie, why does she appear perfectly NT?

If she is so damn smart why does she need her 'mother' sockpuppet to come to her defense, not to mention LP who jumps in every time someone questions her?

And what the hell is wrong with the name Jane and why is everyone stupid for assuming that is in fact her name if she went on Youtube espousing all her own personal beliefs, then changed only her first name, and called it acting? She wasn't acting, she was ranting her beliefs.

Why does she behave appallingly then whine and say she is only 16 when she is called on her bad behaviour?

If being a 16 year old Aspie means you can be rude to everyone, then I want to be a 16 year old Aspie too.

Anonymous said...

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/health/a+second+life+with+autism/666657

Cut and paste for more Amanda Baggs shenanigans. Now she is selling her story across the pomd.

Sorry, I cannot figure out how to post actual take-you-straight-there links.

The Lilac Pilgrim said...

Anonymous, once again, the logic behind your question of "why does she have an American accent" baffles me. She was acting, so she put on an American accent. I come to her defense because, well, what kind of sister would I be if I didn't? And as for our mother, you can believe she doesn't exist, but then how were we born?

Can't you tell from her appearance that she is a teenager? And can't you accept that as she has had therpaies to help her overcome the symptoms of her Aspergers Syndrome, that she actually might have developed those NT traits? Plus, if you watch her other videos, you will hear her real voice. I am endlessly amused at how you can judge one person on one video.

Fore Sam, once again, your violent, hateful disposition worries me slightly. How is the theory of violence to cure non-hateful? You call these people names when they defend themse;ves against you, having to because of the hateful way you say these things.

If I had written a blog about you that looked like the following:-

"John Best. What a fucking moron. He thinks he's so wonderful, always flanked by those neurotypical idiot friends of his in lalaland, the fucking retard"

I bet you'd have something to say in your defense. However, if you say that the ND community are "neuronitwits", "retards" and "vegetables" you seem to expect no backlash. I wonder why you seem to think that you can call these people names and insult their very existence without these people having something to say about it. Contrary to what you believe, these people are not vegetables, the majority are not fakers, they're people who have progressed without chelation, and you cannot accept that. And they can stand up for themselves.

What's worse is you ask us to present you with evidence of our existence and participation. Why would I put myself at risk by showing you my real name, the place I live in or my birth certificate, for example? And what's more is that those can easily be faked. Unfortunately, you only trust those who agree with you, when easily they could be fakes. How can you prove to me that you are indeed who you say you are with a son you claim to have? And I don't want an excuse like "You show me your evidence first" because that is not an answer, it is an avoidance strategy.

Finally, I wish to stress once more the fact that you don't seem to love your son at all, but the child you hope to have or wish you had. Why can't you love your son the way he is? He's not filled with disease or a monster, but in either case you'd love him anyway. Part of being a parent is offering unconditional love, even if you are making him undergo these awful chelation treatments. You only seem to be giving him the treatments with the hope that he will suddenly become "normal". It won't happen that way. Even if he was mercury poisoned, it should be gone by now, and even so, you'd still have to work at helping him. What I wonder is, what would you do if research found that mercury poisoning was not to blame? Once again I stress that I don't want a "That would never happen!!!" answer, as it is an avoidance strategy. I pose these questions because, for your own and your son's welfare, you need to think about the answers. I am trying to help both communites, but it's not easy when neither will cooperate. Try to be the bigger person and start to cooperate. Try to consider the ND views maturely. That is all I ask.

Fore Sam said...

Pilgrim,
Anyone who thinks autism should not be cured is an idiot. There's nothing to debate there. Cops put people in protective custody all the time until they're cured of being too drunk or too messed up on drugs. Society has no problem with this because they recognize the altered consciousness caused by too much booze or drugs. One day, they'll recognize the diminished capacity caused by mercury. Then, any lunatic running around celebrating the joy of mercury poisoning will be locked up and cured for their own good.
I'm not about to start agreeing with insanity or cutting it any slack.

I do love my son unconditionally. That's why I'm trying to help him function well enough to avoid life in an institution. Your weirdos at Neuroinsanity can tout their ridiculous claims that autistics can live in better situations but that's a lie and you know it. If kids like my son aren't cured, institutions are the only option.

Amanda Baggs wasn't in an institution because she couldn't care for herself. She was there for a short time because she was considering suicide and she had destroyed her brain with LSD.

This isn't something that cam be settled with some sort of compromise between sane people and Neurodiversity. They have nothing worthwhile to say. All they are is a bunch of liars who defend the drug companies. They are using autistic people against themselves by convincing them to buy their lies. I'm not that naive.

Anonymous said...

Lilac Pilgrim is lacking in some serious logic in her writing.

1. LP, you know darn well what people mean when they say intervention. Love, nurture, home, food, life skills is what parenting is. Interventions means above the norm of what an average child needs. ND is against extra measures like therapy and especially biomedial.

2. LP, obviously nobody is questioning that you and Kurai HAVE a mother. We are questioning whether the anonymous poster claiming to be her mother is in fact your actual mother.

3. Why is autism the only neurological and biological condition in which any attempt on the parents part to recover the child from their disorder is considered unloving. It is possible to love and accept a person while trying to bring them into optimal neurological and physical functioning/health.

4. Why do you assume chelation is awful? Have you experienced it firsthand or went through the process with a close relative or friend? Have you studied up on it, besides ND propaganda. ND works hard to slander any and all biomed treatments with inflammatory wording.

Anonymous said...

If she is an aspie, why does she appear perfectly NT?

Look again, and this time pay attention. She's trying not to flap her arms. She stimmed once, She didn't pay 100 percent attention to the camera (it was about 90 percent and most of that looked forced).

Anonymous said...

Define fatal condition

A condition that directly leads to the death of the person who has the condition - and without any peripheral issues.

This is not Autism.

watson said...

Lilac Pilgrim said...

"But chelation and suchlike meds are not the answer. They are a clever mind trick. Any improvement by the child is most likely a slow realisation by the child of the world around them due to the fact that parents are in a way forced to spend more time with them."

Do you know I'd never have thought of that! Wow! And its so simple. Not one of the interventions I've tried over the last fourteen years has really done a scrap of good... my son only needed to have even more of my time...

Lilac Pilgrim, read "How We Came to our Agonising Decision" by Adam Feinstein.

If one day your son has autism like Johnny, what are you going to do?

Anonymous said...

A condition that directly leads to the death of the person who has the condition - and without any peripheral issues.

This is not Autism.


So what you are really saying is that ONLY fatal conditions that have that directly cause death should be treated, recovered, remediated, cured, whatever you'd like to call it.

That is kind of a cruel outlook on life.

Anonymous said...

"Look again, and this time pay attention. She's trying not to flap her arms. She stimmed once, She didn't pay 100 percent attention to the camera (it was about 90 percent and most of that looked forced)."


If she is that good at faking it she is not autistic. I bet John's kid could not even vaguely fake being NT, nor could my aspie fake it. Mine cannot control the stimming, staring and odd walk, he just could never pull it off.

As for being Scottish and faking an American accent. That accent was not faked, it was real. I have read a bit of Kurious Jane's writing on the net and the vernacular is completely American. I know because I grew up in the UK. KG is a fake which ever way you look at it. She is as phoney as Amanda Baggs whose footsteps she seems to be following in. If she wants pretend to be autistic and Scottish, good luck to her, but she isn't.

Anonymous said...

Phil seems to be a "fan" of Kurai-Gaka. However after the comments that he wrote on his Brain of the Month section I am not sure even she would be that wrapped.

Amongst the drivel was Phil calling the video "Sexy". Now I don't know about about you guys, but one the video was in no way sexy, and more disturbingly, it is of a 16 year old autistic child and the comments are from a 42 year old married man.

Kinda gives me the creeps!

watson said...

Lilac Pilgrim, Do you see any difference at all between "Johnny Feinstein" and this self-diagnosed Aspie?

This person, I'll assume female, read a newspaper article about autism when she was 29 years old, and says it described her "almost perfectly".

That was in December 1999.

The article mentioned that Einstein might have had Aspergers Syndrome, and having read that she says,

"I have a great respect for Einstein, and if he was autistic I don't mind being autistic too."

Less than two months later, still without a diagnosis, she writes:

"Sometimes I feel angry when I read about attempts being made to 'cure' autism.

I do not wish to be 'cured' from my autism, and many autistic persons who are able to communicate their feelings, say the same thing.

Autism is not something that I have, it is something that I am. Autism is in every emotion I experience, in every thought I think. Autism is throughout my philosophy, my political beliefs, my religious convictions. Autism affects my choice of job, my taste in clothes, my favourite music and literature, the artforms I like, and those I dislike. I am autistic in my views on humanity, my opinion of individual persons, Everything!

Autism is not a cage, with us as the prisoners. You cannot talk about a person 'emerging' from autism."

I know that when people talk about curing autism they mean well, but they really don't know what they are talking about. "

And she thinks she does.

Fore Sam said...

Phil had some comment about Kurai being sexy with the thong but I didn't think it was appropriate. I think he's a dirty old man.

Phil said...

I said NO SUCH THING, Best! That is slander and you'll pay for it if you don't withdraw that pathetic and completely false assertion INSTANTLY!!

Fore Sam said...

Sounds like Phil's protesting too much. What exactly did you say then, Phil? It sounded to me like you had the hots for her.

Anonymous said...

Watch Phil leap up and down shaking his fist.

"You'll pay, John Best!"

Are you shaking in your shoes, Foresam? No?

If Phil does not like a blog he wants it removed from the internet. If Phil does not like a poster on a board, he wants them banned. If someone tells the truth about Phil he threatens them.

Does Phil have a God complex?

I think so.

Fore Sam said...

Phil, Nothing you had to say was relevant to the topic about Amanda Baggs. If you can stop fantasizing about that 16 year old girl long enough to say something constructive, I may publish it.

Phil said...

I'm going to reprint this again and again until Best lets this through. I demand my right to respond to the slanderous allegations that have been perpetrated against me!

Anon it's Best that has the God complex, not me! Just look at his new entry this morning about Autism Speaks! Get a diaper for John Best Junior!

Now this time, Best - LET THIS POST THROUGH!!

-----
Amongst the drivel was Phil calling the video "Sexy". Now I don't know about about you guys, but one the video was in no way sexy, and more disturbingly, it is of a 16 year old autistic child and the comments are from a 42 year old married man.

BULLSHIT!!

No wonder you posted as an anon, lying through your teeth like that!

I was referring to the commentary in the video, and not the video itself on my Wiki article!
-----

I also added that Best will look as bad as he accuses Kev Leitch of being if he didn't let the post through. Must have embarrassed Best with that which is the REAL reason why he modded it out!

And while I'm here;

If Phil does not like a blog he wants it removed from the internet.

This blog is the ONLY blog I have EVER wanted deleted. There have been others I don't like, and the most I've wanted with them is to have posts deleted or apologised for.

If Phil does not like a poster on a board, he wants them banned.

Only after they ignore a warning, or clearly break the rules of said forum.

If someone tells the truth about Phil he threatens them.

No one I have threatened has told the truth. Everyone I issue legal threats to is lying, and I can prove it as well. Ask David Ayling! And Sean Gladman!

(Show some balls and publish this post this time, Best!)

Fore Sam said...

Watson,
I don't think Lilac Pilgrim wants to admit there is any difference between autism and HFA, or even between autism and weirdos like Phil.

The Lilac Pilgrim said...

"Lilac Pilgrim, read "How We Came to our Agonising Decision" by Adam Feinstein.

If one day your son has autism like Johnny, what are you going to do?
"

Interesting question, since I have chronic kidney disease and cannot have children. However, I assure you, if I did have an autistic child, he or she would be raised like the LFA children at my sister's primary school, without drugs. Unless, of course, life-threatening illness or an infection of some sort called for it.

And as for "the vernacular being American", well, what do you expect from an Aspie who grew up around American TV Shows? She adopted it from them as a child. Though I can safely assure you she lives in Scotland. I find it laughable sitting here in Scotland to read that you believe she's not. Just proving further that the cure advocates on this page are paranoid rumour mills.

For the sake of my sanity, I don't believe I can stay to read anymore of the puerile drivel and libel by Fore Sam or the words of his bouncers. However, this does not mean I won't pop up from time to time. Enjoy your pool of hysteria, until next time.

I wish you all the best of luck.

Anonymous said...

Too much logic has driven Lilac Pilgrim away.

Sorry, LP, your "I'll raise them like the kids in my sister's school" vague answer says nothing. You know nothing of trying to live a daily life and raise a family with one of those children becoming so aggressive and debilitated that no intervention seems to help. This is called a crisis situation. You have no idea what you would feel. You have no idea what it is like for a parent of such a child to even do something as simple as go into the bathroom alone to pee. Something I am sure you take for granted. You, a teenager, which is a relatively carefree position to be in have no idea what it is like to hold together a marriage, figure out work schedules around a child nobody will babysit and still make a way for your non-autistic children to feel like they are included and loved in their family when all the attention goes to the autistic child. You have no idea what it is like to have no freedom or to not sleep a full night every single night. You have no idea what it is like to be exhausted, frustrated and desperately sad for your child.

You are a smart mouthed teeny bopper with an attitude because you have a minimally affected sister. Haven't you figured it out yet? Nobody here respects your opinion or gives two craps what you think or what you have to say. For that matter, nobody here cares what a bunch of whiney self-diagnosed people claiming high IQ's and special skills have to say. Their lives don't mean anything or prove anything to people raising children with real autism spectrum issues. Why should I, a parent, give a shit if some geeky guy who deides he is autistic at age 40 after getting through regular school, college, maintaining a career and raising a family has to say about how I should raise or treat my child. That person knows nothing of my child and likely knows nothing of real autism. There is no way my child would ever have gotten through even regular preschool unnoticed. Forget about grade school, high school or life afterward. No way. None. Nobody is mistaking my kid as normal, nobody, none. My child doesn't have the ability to fake NT, not even for one minute of one day. My child wouldn't even understand that NT would be something to fake for the sake of acting in a movie, forget about real life to just get by in a grocery store. I'm sure my kid would love the faking NT skill so they kids in school would stop teasing. Do you not see that this discussion is ludicrous in its origins. REAL AUTISTIC people have severe communication and social deficits which make it hard for them to read facial expressions or match those facial expressions consciously. They don't understand how to add inflection and they do not expertly pick up on social nuances. They don't consciously lose unnatural posturing and body movements for the sake of faking a movie. If they knew how to do these things, they would teach themselves to do it all the time so they could pass as NT. That is why none of us here are buying what you are trying to sell. Understand.

watson said...

The Lilac Pilgrim said...

"However, I assure you, if I did have an autistic child, he or she would be raised like the LFA children at my sister's primary school, without drugs."

Are you saying that none of the children with autism at your sister's school were prescribed psychotropic drugs, such as Ritalin, Adderall, Risperdone, Zyprexa, Geodon, Prozac, Zoloft, Clonodine, Luvox, Anafranil, Wellbutrin, Thioridazine, Fluphenazine, Chlorpromazine, Haloperidol, Concerta, Tegretol, Lamictal, Topamax, Depakote.....?

How unusual.

What about the children with autism and seizures? Were their seizures not being treated?

And were the kids with ADD and ADHD also drug free? Or did they take Ritalin, Prozac, Adderall and Risperdone, and the autistic children didn't?

Anonymous said...

How unusual.

Why? You talk like drugs are a good thing! Yea - shoot up the autie kids with ecstasy then!

Lamebrain.

watson said...

Anon, I have the same attitude towards drugs as I have towards vaccines. They're extremely dangerous and can be lethal.

How about you?

Anonymous said...

Hey Fore Sam,

Fuck you. I don't give a hell if you served in the Air Force, I wish you got mowed down. Maybe if the Japanese or Vietnamese won some of those battles, we'd be lucky. At least then we'd exterminate a lowlife, 62-IQ, redneck bastard like you. I can't wait until you go to hell and your flesh slowly melts off your lowly, redneck bones.

FUCK AMERICA, AND FUCK THE AIR FORCE!

Chuck said...

John,

I see you are still making friends and influencing people. I just saw the youtube video and I thought it was something that you contributed to.

You are world class in one way or another John, I will give you that.

Fore Sam said...

Chuck,
My sales increased after that video came out so it was good publicity. I hope she makes some more.

John Graham said...

I'm wondering why this never ending arguing back and forth between the ones who believe autism is caused by mercury poisoning, those who believe it is hereditary, those who believe in curing, those who believe in not curing.

Where is this going? (Which is my main point in this post)

REALLY PEOPLE, what is the good in all this ?

I believe that people should fill their blogs with whatever they want.
...but on the other hand, most of the stuff I am reading here sounds like immature Junior High arguments.

...and by the way, not all Junior High kids are immature, there are many kids that age who are smart, open-minded, ABLE TO TRULY DEBATE, and their maturity puts a lot of the content I'm reading here to shame.

What is the GOOD in all of this?

Autism is ONLY ONE tiny subject in a world of issues,

(one I am absolutely very interested in for many reasons)

...and I come here and read a over-bloated universe stuffed full of pettiness and gossip.

Doesn't seem like anyone truly wants to better anything, or build bridges.

John Graham

Fore Sam said...

John,
It is not possible to build bridges with those from Neuroinsanity. They are an organization of deceit and propaganda who try to disguise their mission of covering up Pharma's negligence as support of autistic people. The reality is that they have conned young, confused teenagers into becoming activists against their own best interests which, on the surface, gives the leaders of Neuroinsanity some credibility.

As far as debating the topic goes, you don't see anyone from Neurodiversity coming here because they are severely outclassed and have no chance of making themselves look good. They can only make themselves appear credible when they control the forum where they can delete the truth.

Since they are afraid to defend themselves, I think it's useful to point out their fraud at every opportunity. It's also fun to make light of their stupidity.

"Bard Child" said...

Wow, after reading a few posts I've concluded on one thing

Looks like the 4Chan /b/tards finally found the Neurodiveristy Movement. Funny. You know John Best, you're not really informative. You are, if anything, the spammer teen in 4Chan, 7Chan, F-Chan picture boards, spamming the hell out of them with your Neurodiversity=Nut Job copypasta.

I'm surprised Encyopedia Dramatic hasn't made an article on you yet, you darn well deserved one with your "Anonymous-esq" hate spam. Than again trolls are all the same flavor to me.

No before you start jumping the trigger here Mr. Best sir, I'm not for the movement or rather I'm not a bloody zelot. Yes I am aspie, I was dignosised when I was eighteen(and over medicated) I'm not one of the those self-diagnosis fools looking for a club to fit in. I was thrown into the aspie club without me wanting to be in it. Now that I am, I might as well sample the cookies and drink the punch.

Do I think you're right? No. I think you are a troll. Period, you have some points that I can agree with. But mostly you sound like 4Chan flammer with a Masters.

Do I want a cure or rather a cure for the spectrum? No...not really not anymore. What I would like a mother who sees me as her daughter, not my daughter with a disablity. And people who spend money understand the characteristcs than spend hundrends of dollars on cure that not really going to fix anything. Chelation, has been proven not to cure Autism, but merely has a placebo effect, same with the gluent free diet.

Anyway I'm rambling(which is trademark of myself), but if you like picking on people so much, try some new material. Amanda Baggs is getting old. It's the same old troll trick. Why not do a little research on DJ Sevarese? Or rather his father Ralph Sevarese, who has written a book on him Reasonable People nice book, by the way. Go pick on the eleven year old non-verbal Autist, that suffered abuse in Foster Care, and speaks through Facilicated Communication. I'm sure you can get some fresh new material on his dad, who spoils his every whim rotten and pities "this brave child". Just helping you out. If you're gonna troll on the Movement, then do it right at least, or be creative.

Anyway if you wish to talk to me (which you probably won't) SoloNightStorm@Hotmail.com is my e-mail or if you feel "hip" feel free to IM on AOL IM, SoloBWolf.

-The Bard Child

AWV said...

Are you guys serious? She was 14 or 15 when she wrote that. Would you want something you wrote when you were 14 or 15 to be used against you now? People make up fantasy worlds when they're kids, especially when they're going through a hard time socially or emotionally, which I'm sure she was. Finding stuff she wrote when she was a teenager going through a hard time doesn't prove she's lying now.