Tuesday, December 04, 2007

Amanda Baggs When She Was Normal



Does anyone know how to enlarge this picture so we can see how normal Amanda looked prior to becoming autistic?

62 comments:

Amanda Supporter said...

That's not Amanda! Who is that, JB? Your neice or some other loser in your family?

Anonymous said...

A link to that picture was posted on this site a while back. It was a bigger version. I don't remember where it came from but I'm sure it is here somewhere. That picture was taken during this period,


Hi. I'm Galiganinda Dulin, although my legal name is Amanda Baggs. I
don't care which you call me (Galig is fine, for short).


I have been diagnosed with several things, the most recent of which is
schizoaffective disorder. That is sort of like a cross between bipolar
and schizophrenia. Since I'm not purely bipolar, I wonder if I will be
accepted here.


I tried a lot of different medications, but currently I'm on a
combination of Lithium, Wellbutrin, and Zyprexa. I am getting so much
better now since the Lithium and Wellbutrin. The Lithium helped curb my
mania, where sometimes I would think I was God, and the Wellbutrin helped
my depression. I feel like I have hit the combination that works.


The problem is, they're lowering my Zyprexa. I'm afraid I'll start
hallucinating again. They're doing it slowly, but any change from this
level state scares me.


As to me as a person besides my diagnosis, I'm 16 years old. I write
poetry, and have a great passion for things elven. I like to read a
lot. I live in California. I love my dog more than I love anyone else.
Her name is Nokomis, and she's going to be a year old in 6 days. She has
helped me a lot; I got her when I was a a residential treatment centre
and she gave me something to live and get better for. I have to mention
her because she has been as much, if not more, a part of my recovery as
the medications.


I hope I can find a place on this newsgroup...


--

Fore Sam said...

Fraud supporter,
There are no losers in my family. The pciture IS Baggs.

Amanda Supporter said...

No it's not. I know Amanda and that's NOT her.

Fore Sam said...

Fraud Supporter,
It IS her. What you see today is the result of waaaaaay too much LSD and gluttony. Those things tend to change the way a person looks.

Anonymous said...

That picture IS Amanda, I have seen the larger version, there is no question it is her. Her name was on it for one thing. There was also a picture of her on the autistic picture project which appears to have been taken down. She looked too normal on it. I think she has been scouring the web for pictures of herself where she was semi attractive and normal looking and removing them. It seems she would rather look the way she does now, an overweight beared lady.

Reality Check said...

How could you possibly tell if she was normal by just a picture? Are you serious?

Fore Sam said...

Reality Check,
That's a good point. You would think my son was quite normal by looking at a picture of him.
You would never think Amanda Baggs was normal though, by looking at a picture of her now. So, why didn't she also look extremely abnormal when she was younger? She didn't have that faraway look in her eyes that refuse to meet the camera like she does now.
You're going to be kicked out of the skeptical thinkers society for not asking those questions yourself.

Kenny said...

That picture is not of a "normal" person. If you look closely she is wearing specialist glasses. The sort that is normally used to try and correct eye problems that is normally associated with the sort of eye contact problems that could be consistent with an Autism diagnosis!

Libby said...

Fore Sam;

If you placed all the effort you are wasting on Amanda Baggs into a larger effort to help and support your son you may have progressed further than you already have.

Anonymous said...

That is Amanda people! WAKE UP AND DO SOME RESEARCH ON THIS NUT CASE.

She has her own Flickr account, enjoy:
www.flickr.com/photos/silentmiaow/

The pictures of her normal are in a folder called People, to the right on the page.

BTW, she could join the circus with that beard.
-Maxima

Anonymous said...

She was an adorable child, and if you notice, she made eye contact with the person holding the camers, could stand still and focus so she was not frightening the animals she was holding. She could balance herself standing in a tree and to walk which she claims she can no longer do because her balance is not good. There was nothing wrong with that child. She apparently became autistic as an adult. She seems to have removed all adult pictures of herself from the web except those where she is looking into the distance, refusing to make eye contact, walking in that drunken way she now walks.

JustAMom said...

God help you people!
Do you make fun of all Autistic people?
What's going to happen if your child gets fat from medication?
(it could happen-it happened to mine)

You all are the bullies I hope never get a hold of my son...and you're probably raising bullies too aren't you?

Finally - do any of you even KNOW what it's like to have a child with Autism? Based on all your comments, the answer must be no.

Especially you Best.
You have no idea.
You're all disgusting.

Fore Sam said...

Justamom,
I only make fun of phoney autistics and wackos like you who believe their lies. I can tell by your comment you fit in well with neuroinsanity.

Anonymous said...

Amanda's huge weight and facial hair are consistent with polycystic ovary condition, and if she has that she cannot help it and I feel sorry for her.

Its the lies and pretense that are doing so much harm and that make me angy.

JustAMom said...

So no one posting any of these comments deals with Autism. Nice.

Like I said, bullies.
Rephrasing: intolerant, bigoted bullies.

zarathustra@operamail.com said...

Why are you bullying someone who is clearly mentally ill? Still waiting for you to come over to WP and debate like a grown-up.

Fore Sam said...

Justamom,
I deal with autism as do most of the people who post here.

Amanda Baggs deals with being a phoney autistic who makes a mockery of our children.

Exposing the truth about a lying, scum like Baggs has nothing to do with intolerance or bullying. It only has to do with TRUTH.

Fore Sam said...

Zarathustra,
I've tried to debate neuroinsane scumbags in many places. Any time I speak the truth, my comments are deleted and the neuroinsane moderators claim I insulted someone to cover up the truth of what I actually said.

Any and every neuronitwit can try to take issue with my position here if they so choose. If your comments aren't insulting other posters, off topic, or filled with profanities, they will be published.

Anonymous said...

"So no one posting any of these comments deals with Autism. Nice."

I think everyone here deals with it every day. Otherwise they would not pay attention to a crazy woman pretending to be autistic to further some political agenda. Nobody likes having crazy people telling them what to do with their autistic kids, something that Baggs and the other ND types do incessantly all over the web and now CNN.

This site is a small speck in an ocean of Neurodiversity sites patrolled by Baggs and company. I would say it is fighting back, and not unprovoked bullying.

Anonymous said...

zarathustra@operamail.com sa...

"Why are you bullying someone who is clearly mentally ill?"

The question is, "zarathustra," why is someone who is clearly mentally ill bullying and taking advantage directly of at least one severely autistic individual that we know of

and indirectly of countless millions and their parents, and being protected heralded showcased, and even praised for it?

Her mental illness in no way excuses her own behavior nor that of others who condone and enable it, and that includes you.

Anonymous said...

She got autism as an adult ???
Doesn't that kinda go against the whole NeuroD grain ???
Somehting can cause autism in an adult ... why cant that same thing cause it in a baby ??
Cool.
Srinath.

Anonymous said...

zarathustra@operamail.com sa...

"Why are you bullying someone who is clearly mentally ill?"

The question is, "zarathustra," why is someone who is clearly mentally ill bullying and taking advantage directly of at least one severely autistic individual that we know of

and indirectly of countless millions and their parents, and being protected heralded showcased, and even praised for it?

Her mental illness in no way excuses her own behavior nor that of others who condone and enable it, and that includes you.

JustAMom said...

Fore Sam said...

Justamom,
I deal with autism as do most of the people who post here.


I don't believe that for a single second.

I think NOone here deals with it every day. Otherwise they would not resort to bullying those less fortunate than them.

I've never seen a bunch of people so blind to what Autism is, so unaccepting of those who are challenged yet show incredible courage. The things you all say about somebody's child, wow.

I am a parent. I know what it's like. Walk a mile in my shoes. I would never do that, but then again, I'm a parent, you all obviously are not.

zarathustra@operamail.com said...

"An eye for an eye, makes the whole world blind." OK, you feel us ND's are "Useless Eaters". Fine, leave us to our folly. Do something positive! Go on Autism Speaks walks. Post positive articles about proven therapies. Show by example how your way is superior. Facts will slay the fools, not bitching like "She could join a circus with that beard". What does a comment like that do for parents of LFA? O, and don't hide behind "Anonymous", Say who you are.

Anonymous said...

Everyone posting here is dealing with autism. This site provides a place to vent after reading all of the crap posted by the neurodiversity sites. All the really pissed-off ones are doing biomed treatment and seeing positive results, so they blast the ND crew (including hairy Amanda Baggs) who says biomed treatments do not improve anything.

JustAMom said...

Everyone posting here is dealing with autism. This site provides a place to vent after reading all of the crap posted by the neurodiversity sites. All the really pissed-off ones are doing biomed treatment and seeing positive results, so they blast the ND crew (including hairy Amanda Baggs) who says biomed treatments do not improve anything.

If you are actually a parent, I hope that no one every talks about your child the way you do, and your friends here do. It's despicable.

Like I said, I'm a parent, what I'm doing is working, your way is not the be all end all for me - just like mine isn't for you. Just like many other therapies may or may not work for everyone.

But still, you go on here about the mentally challenged in a really degrading way, NOT like a caring parent of a challenged child would (or even a civil member of society). What does that have to do with anything? Other than to be mean and spiteful?

I hope you never have to deal with that.

Fore Sam said...

Justamom,
Amanda Baggs is mentally challenged because she blew her brains out with LSD. It's her own damn fault. She has no business lumping herself in with children who were poisoned by a negligent pharmaceutical cartel. If she wants to celebrate LSD induced brain damage, that's her business. When she tries to make the world think she has anything in common with my innocent son, it's my business.

You ND jackasses continually bash doctors who cure autism. We don't bash you because you're lucky enough to have kids who benefit from conventional therapies. So, why don't you just shut your idiotic mouth and let us help our kids without inserting your misinformed opinions.

Anonymous said...

justamom,

Amanda Baggs has carefully and methodically imitated and mocked a severely autistic woman for her story, and now she's doing it on national tv..

Play us your violin of pity and sympathy for this crazy like a fox "mentally challenged' cunt when its your child who's been virtually psychologically raped and on a global scale like this.

Anonymous said...

"What does that have to do with anything? Other than to be mean and spiteful?"

I really think it is great you found something that works for your kid, whatever it may be. If you are actually treating you kids in some way, your are actively going against what Baggs and the other ND followers preach though. Those "mentally challenged" folks you talk about have the ear of the major researcher in Great Britain and pretty much covered the internet with their spam about autism being incurable.

You appear to have seen only the headline and think Baggs is just some innocent child posting about her struggles. It goes way deeper than that.

Anonymous said...

Justamom,

Why don't you justfuckoff! You haven't a clue about what theese evil ND propagandist do to keep LFA kids from getting better and the bullshit rumours that they spread. I wasted a whole year because I listened to their lies. Now that I am doing biomed my kid can actually hold a fucking conversation.

Amanda Supporter said...

Why don't YOU fuck off, anonymous cretin! Is your kid cured?

JB, Amanda was on LSD for about five minutes! Stop preaching that crapola!

Fore Sam said...

Fraud supporter,
One tab of LSD affects you for more than 5 minutes. Baggs was taking it 4 or 5 times a day.

I knew some crazy people who got crazier from taking LSD, became Hare Krishna's and used to like to run around naked in the middle of the city.

Are you trying to tell me it's not insane to drop out of a prestigious college, forget how to talk, wear diapers and start flapping your hands like a bird? No wonder they tossed her in the looney bin. Now, we're supposed to buy her story? Sure.

Irony said...

Justamom, your child obviously is not Low Functioning Autistic. They likely have Aspergers, of HFA, or another of the "we're just quirky" Spectrum disorders.

You're just saying "Autistic" to validate yourself more potently. You're hiding in a shroud that encompasses all ASDs, and preaching from on high because you can claim validity, thanks to NDs persistence in preventing functioing labels.

Now, Justamom, have you ever seen Fore say anything, anything at all, that he said to hurt his son, to be mean, cruel, or spiteful to his child? Nay. You'll not find a word. Why?

And yet you cannot believe his son's autistic... No, you refuse to believe his son is autistic. You come in to a discussion, on a long-running set of topic, Amanda Baggs, and assume that because the posters hate her, that they must hate every autistic.

You treat parents like they beat their children, like they're completely ignorant of how to parent, that they are raising bullies, and that they are disgusting. You base your entire opinion on nothing more than the worst that's seen of people.

You're just a mom, Fore's just a dad, they're just parents. If you're here simply to return their hatred in kind, calling them bullies, insulting their parenting, and calling them disgusting, then how are you any different? Because you think you're doing the right thing?

I had a good reason to be named as I am. I hope you understand, lest this goes to waste upon deaf ears.

Anonymous said...

Amanda dropped LSD daily for 2-3 months. She insane because of that. I've never heard of a drug user that got autism as a result of tripping on acid.

-Maxiam

Anonymous said...

"JB, Amanda was on LSD for about five minutes! Stop preaching that crapola!"


Where does a low functioning autistic person who claims to have spent a lifetime in and out of insitututions even know where to get LSD, let alone what it is for.

I have worked with people who spent their lives in institutional settings because of physical disability, not autism, and they were, everyone of them, so restricted, so innocent from lack of exposure to ordinary life, that using drugs was a concept they never thought of, they had so little knowledge of the outside world. To them having a beer was a big deal.

Then there is Amanda, walking drunkenly, unable to speak, unable to coordinate, banging her head on walls, hitting herself, not making eye contact, and she went looking for drugs, had the money to buy them and then the werewithall to take them for 3 months (or five minutes.) It just makes no sense.

laurentius rex said...

Well as a supporter of Amanda, yes that is a picture of Amanda, it looks like one that was on her Aleis in Wonderland site (does anyone remember that? I do.)

I've had a web site for about ten years now, and my appearance has been steadily changing too, with increasing male pattern baldness (that's the testosterone no doubt) and the hairs that are left turning grey.

I've been slowly putting on weight too.

Now if I still looked like I did when I was in my teens it would look wierd wouldn't it, I'd have to change my name to Dorian Gray.

You can't tell a lot from a picture, unless you have a good one and you are looking for physiological stuff, even then you need context.

JustaMom said...

Irony said,
You're just a mom, Fore's just a dad, they're just parents. If you're here simply to return their hatred in kind, calling them bullies, insulting their parenting, and calling them disgusting, then how are you any different? Because you think you're doing the right thing?


Wow. I'm bullying?? I'm insulting parenting?? News flash, they ARE acting disgusting. Grown people, calling mentally challenged people (yes, plural) names. Yet I'M the bully?

I don't belong to your cult groups: Biomed or ND. I don't need to. I have one job to do, raise a child(ren). I do what works for my kids. Period. I'm not here to appease or your gang. I am here, calling you out, adults or teens or whoever you are on the cruelty of your actions.

I have every right to do so, as you feel that Best has every right to make fun of the disabled. I can and will call you out on your behaviors.

This blog has no educational benefit, it provide no support for those living with Autism. Why do I question if you or Best or any of the posters here deal with Autism every day should be obvious to you. I ask if you want a blog like this about your "child" should you have one.

Being a decent member of society should clear this question up right quick. If you are, you'd not join in on disability bashing.

**************
And since you asked, yes, I've read where Best bashed his child (not physically of course - verbally).

Foresam said...

Justamom,
Amanda baggs is not autistic. She misrepresents my son and I have a duty to expose that fraud for the sake of every other autistic child who did not become autistic by abusing LSD.

If any autistic people who support Baggs and her lies suffer collateral damage by doing so, that's too bad. They should be quiet and listen to those of us who speak only the truth regarding autism.

I'm sick of liars and idiots publicizing idiotic notions about autism which harms disabled children in the process.

As to this blog's educational value, lots of people are now aware that Amanda Baggs is a fraud. People who have been reading this blog for years could have learned how to cure autism. And, people have learned that everything and everybody associated with Neurodiversity is either a fraud or a simpleton. I'd say that gives this blog some educational value.

JustaMom said...

Amanda Baggs is autistic, yet she still does not represent my son.

Autism presents in many colors and flavors, sensory issues in one may have no presentation in another. Your child may bang his head, while mine will become mute. Your child may flap his hands, while mine may twist his fingers.

No one represents my son, except my son. No one represents your son, except your son. Our issues and concerns lie solely with those children. You do what works, if it doesn't you find something new.

How is my story different from your story? Learning curves may be different, but they ARE tough roads. We likely have as many similarities as we do differences. There is a common bond though, and that is that our kids need help navigating the world - starting at home. No difference.

We have our good days and bad days, that's the common bond. We need never ending patience AND determination, that's the common bond.

You are not so different from me Mr. Best, except that I find that it's none of my business how easy or hard someone else has it. I have compassion for anyone who cannot find their way in this world, for whatever reason.

That's what sets us apart, even though our lives are probably more alike than not.

Foresam said...

Justamom,
You continue to state that Baggs is autistic despite all the evidence against that. Did you feed your child LSD? Is that how his brain was damaged? Is that why you think it's OK for Baggs to claim she's autistic?

There is a huge difference between a baby becoming autistic from mercury in vaccines and a teenager scrambling her brain with LSD. I'd have some compassion for Baggs if she told the truth about her self-induced brain damage. As it is, she is giving the world a false impression of autism.

That false impression makes it more difficult for the truth about autism to be publicized.

JustaMom said...

Mr. Best,
I continue to say that because of the proof she has offered. She has many other disorders as well. If you were to actually look, many are evident in her videos. (things not related to autism features)

Frankly, she has provided more "proof" than you or I have hasn't she. And what a shame that she felt she had to do that.

Whatever effects she received from drugs (which she admits too doing, regrettably) issues were present before then from what I read.

What 'evidence' is there that she is not also on the spectrum?

Foresam said...

Justamom,
Amanda Baggs was normal when she began college at age 13.

The only proof she has of anything is some medical records showing that she was diagnosed with different things after that.

There are people who knew her before she blew her brains out with LSD who have been pestered by her lawyer to keep them quiet concerning the truth about this fraud.

It seems she had some issues before this but those issues were not autism. Being sexually abused as a child by two family members could cause problems for anyone. Perhaps she bacame an elf during this time as an escape mechanism. Who knows? The fact remains that she was a normal kid, no evidence of autism whatsoever.

It's hard to take anything she says seriously after learning about the LSD and the metamorphosis into elfhood.

Do you really want someone who thinks she is an elf being a spokesperson for your autistic child? You will answer that honestly, won't you?

JustaMom said...

I speak for my child Mr. Best,
you should too. He does not need a spokeperson. Is that honest enough for you?


And while you're at it, you should clarify those comments that you think are 'fact' - you're wrong in that last post.

Foresam said...

Justamom,
What facts do you claim are false?

Anonymous said...

Justamom,

I used to read Amanda's blog. I still do just to see what the crazy beech is up to. I believed every word she said, thought she was amazing, insightful, you name it. I even asked her a few questions to get advice about my own situation.

Then eventually it dawned on me that she had more insight about her own supposed autism and more ability to self reflect, to identify problems with herself both physical and emotional than my HF aspie. He is supposed to be better functioning and more able than her judging by her presentation as non verbal, low functioning autistic adult.

I realized that it did not make sense. All the things that make a person a HF autistic, such as poor social skills, inability to see anothers point of view, inability to make abstract connections, inability to believe that things they have not witnessed can happen in their absence, were things that gave Amanda no trouble at all and she is supposed to be a low functiong autistic. My university educated aspie cannot make the complex connections Amanda has no trouble with.

I was so confused by this I went googling for more info about her and found this blog were I realized I was not the only one who found her not credible.


All the disabilities that make a person autistic are absent in Amanda. Aside fom the fact that she was normal until she was 15, schizophrenic until 20, then autistic ever since.

Can't you see she is lying. She is taking people in. She took me in. She is posing as something she is not. She does not even have Asperger's let alone LF autism.

She is mentally ill and she is a megalomaniac.

Irony said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuoTuL1we_c

You tell me.
Are you justfied to paint all those who post here with a brush that drips with "disgusting, gang, cruel, indecent"?

I suppose of course, that bashing one disabled person is bashing them all, then? They have strong doubts, and plenty of information. You're hiding, evading whether they're bigots or not by using their reactions towads one person. Are you not doing the same thing as you think they're doing, judging all by judging a few?

It's hard to say. Who am I to draw the lines of what can and can't be done? I'm no parent. How far would you go for your child? Would you discredit people who prevent research that could help people who live with something severly disabling, with little hope of achieving a happy, independent life, where they are free to do anything that other people can, as opposed to being unable to make their own way in the world, and likely live out their lives in institutions or homes? I can't really say. I'm just a concept. A rather active one, but a concept nonetheless.

I noticed you didn't respond to my challenge of Autism, and ignored it, in favour of pulling out some more crocodile tears over "Autistics" while you're really just using the Autistic Spectrum as an excuse to validate yourself here, rather than name a functioning label and be open. Sad, but predictable. After all, you're the self-righteous type. You lose your right to bitch and moan about Autistic rights, and you'll be out of the little credibility you had.

You've read where Best bashed his son verbally? Surprising. Mind sharing with the class? After all, it's probably some creative little concoction of Fore, amalgamated by out of context quotes and grandoise statements.

And as to the value of this blog? I've never seen Fore turn away anyone who's wanted to ask him serious questions, nor Autistics who want to talk, or people who need to let off steam over Autism groups. He's respectful if you are. You should try it some time.

JustaMom said...

Irony said,
I'm no parent.


Just like I thought.

I don't believe in functioning labels, and here's why. First, how do you define them? Maybe that will help some.
My son can talk, but it took him till he was 4-1/2, then almost six before anyone other than us to understand him.
He can walk.
He's learned to catch a ball.
He can't ride a bike.
He can dress himself, but needs help orientating.
He can't bathe himself yet, but I'm holding out hope.
He is happy, he loves his family.
He can read, but barely write.
He has severe sensory issues, but not nearly as severe as they used to be.

So, for this boy, how would you "label" him? In what area will you diminish his abilities, and expand the others? Or expand his abilities and diminish the others?

I'm curious. What single term would you apply to such a complex human?

How do you label yourself?

You think talking means high-functioning? You think not being able to wash your hair means low-functioning? How would you, who insists on labeling my son, like to corral this child? How would you like to lower your expectations of him?

JustaMom said...

By the way Irony, I really enjoyed the video.

Foresam said...

Justamom,
The topic is about Amanda baggs being normal for a very long time before she decided to become autistic.
Was your son normal? Did he make a conscious decision to become autistic?

JustaMom said...

Foresam said...
Was your son normal? Did he make a conscious decision to become autistic?


Fair question.
No, he was like this from birth. (seeing how he was my third, I could tell right away something was different).

Foresam said...
The topic is about Amanda baggs being normal for a very long time before she decided to become autistic.


Her documentation shows that there were very real issues prior to the drug use. That's a fact. Based on what I've 'seen' of her, I personally think there is a lot more than just autism, just she definitely has autistic traits. She just happens to have many others as well. No one decides to become Autistic we both know that. Because a doctor happened to diagnose her as such, is the issue with you right? She's repeats what she's been told, maybe your issues are directed toward the medical field, and not the recipient of the diagnosis.

All that said, it's really none of my business what her diagnoses are. Whether she were completely neurologically healthy or not, it is not my place to make fun of her. Morally, it's wrong. Now, she IS neurologically handicapped, and documented as so prior to drug use, so the fact of the matter is, that you are leading the charge to bully and make fun of a handicapped person. Whether or not you 'like' her, is your prerogative, but, it IS cruel.

Foresam said...

Justamom,
I could be mistaken but I think her hearing voices coincided with being sexually abused by her own family.
The trauma from that coupled with LSD abuse may have screwed up her brain. That, however, is not autism. She misrepresents the horror that my son endures and she should shut up.

JustaMom said...

Mr. Best,
Anger will kill you long before you're ready to go.

Amanda lives a different life than my son or your son I'm sure. Are you part of a support group aside from this blog? There are amazing and wise people out there with great ideas, I'm sure you have some yourself.

Perhaps you should help feed and soak up the knowledge and hold back on the hate rants. You'll find that giving all your energy to that which you don't agree with, actually has less power than you originally imagined.

I understand you're frustrated with what you believe are misconceptions, but this all does not shine a good light on you.
And having been given the huge responsibility of raising a child with Autism, I have to believe there is FAR more to you than bigotry and bullying.

Foresam said...

Justamom,
Exposing frauds is not hate, bullying, bigotry or anything else you try to claim with your inane stabs at character assassination.
Frauds are despicable people.

JustaMom said...

Frauds ARE despicable.
Just like calling people fat, hairy, stupid, idiot, etc. IS bullying.

You start posts for the implicit goal of getting others to share their hate-filled opinions too.

I'll leave for now, but will continue to wish you the best, I do think there's got to be more to you than this.

Irony said...

I said functioning labels, not unfunctional labels. The thing behind functioning labels is that they function. Thus, the need for a functioning system for functioning labels. You won't get help by squalling over rights to call your son a blanket term for every Spectrum disorder under the sun. And by opposing a system of labelling, you oppose sorting out people's needs. Sure, not everyone has the same needs, but needs vary, and some people have greater needs than others.

I'd label your child as in need of services, and developing well. I'd commend the parents on raising their child, and label your son however it would be seen fit. I'm not the judge of that though, only people who are offering services and aid are. Stereotypes as we well know are often wrong and idiotic. That's not the point of a functioning label, to serve as a means of prejudging. It's the person we must think of, not a set of behaviours. Even if we cannot accurately draw concrete and fair lines, there's still benefits to figuring out the labels. After all, we label ourselves all the time, do we not? You are a mother. I am white. Fore bets on horses. Droopy has LFA.
Do we let these define us and determine who we are, or are these but facets of ourselves?

I label myself as a standard, average person. No, wait, scratch that, I'm a concept of humour.

Then what you fear of the label is that you are afraid of your own reaction. You fear the label as you fear forced expectations on your child.

Thank you. I quite enjoy the lyrical and musical combinations that Katie Melua produces. The messages she delivers are nothing to sneeze at, either.

Anonymous said...

Amanda Bags says she does not believe in 'functioning' labels, yet she sure as hell made certain she was labled low functioning, a label she claimed on CNN that she laughs at.

She made sure she got labled low functioning so she would not have to work and would get all the money and help she wanted, including the servants she endlessly complains about.

Lables ensure Amanda Baggs gets a free ride so what the hell is she complaining about?

JustaMom said...

Irony said...
Justamom, your child obviously is not Low Functioning Autistic. They likely have Aspergers, of HFA, or another of the "we're just quirky" Spectrum disorders.


This was your comment, was it not? Asking for a label. I.e., what kind of Autistic.

Then what you fear of the label is that you are afraid of your own reaction. You fear the label as you fear forced expectations on your child.

This is a joke right?? LOL!
I 'fear' a label? Is that a serious comment? You can't corral my Autistic son into a single category can you? You can't give him a label. You can call him HF, because he talks, but does he have the social communicative abilities? But you labelled him HF. You call him LF, but he can read, who is wrong? What's the 'real' label?

You call Droopy LF, yet she is clear in her typewritten messages. She has a great deal of need for support, absolutely, but why diminish the fact that she has feelings, and ideas, and intelligence? No, you'd rather just call her 'low functioning' and be done with it? What an injustice to everyone you call that.

Even you couldn't come up with a label with my short list - "needs services but progressing". You, Irony, are the one asking for me to label him in order to reconcile whether or not you can accept my comments. Not me.

Have a child, then get back to me.
But don't get back to me until someone tries to deny him/her services based on their 'functioning label'. Or even worse, until they lower their expectations of your child.

Irony said...

Sorry; I believed you were another of the bunch that talks about Autism and makes it out to be something it's not by using Aspies and HFAs as examples of Autistics, while LFAs are left to languish as they are expected to live up to the same expectations as are on Aspies or HFAs.

My mistake.

Justamom, what do you think Irony is?

The real label needs to be defined. The first step to seeing a mistake is making it in the first place. How do you think such stupid things as humans did anything? For example, looking at a cow, and saying; "I wonder if I can drink that stuff that the calves drink?"

If there is no label, your son must be handled in a category of his own. If there's no category to fit him, you need another category. But so long as functioning labels never even start, how do you think they'll be effective?

Look how long it took to get a valid system of government. To abolish slavery. To set up a valid code of universal human rights. Time is important, and something needs to be in effect for it to change, to grow, or to wither. An idea doesn't have any worth until it is realized and has form and substance.

Functioning labels are opposed, and have no chance to work unless people try. And that people try is why things change. The Slaves weren't freed because that's written in a history book; It's that people tried to change something, and it changed.

Forming a working, adequate system takes time. Rome wasn't built in a day. And refusing to even begin laying foundations is not the way to build the Roman Empire.

I called you a mother. Are you a mother in the sense of what I called you, stating something about you, or are you the stereotype of a mother? A label that functions is a label that is fluid. Are you a mother, like a stay-at-home mother, or a soccer mom? No, you're not a stereotype. You think a functioning label equals a stereotype.

Let's put it this way; There are labels which generalize a person, like the surface-only, skin-deep kind. We'll call them simples. And then there are labels which are fluid, which rely on the person, and not an assumption. We'll call them complex.

Now, you fear the functioning label as a simple label, a label which diminishes or unfairly holds them to standards. You think this is the only way it would work. You don't think that it would be any other way.

I hold a school of thought that functioning labels will be, after either a timespan or immediately, the complex labels. Labels which are not simple things like LFA, or HFA, but a more advanced system than coinflips. Space in the system for a range.

I meant no offense, believe it or not. I simply meant that you were scared that your child would be denied needed services, or diminished. That's the thing you fear. I apologize that I did a poor job of getting my message across.

I asked, do we let these define who we are? No. Ask anyone with a label if they fit the stereotype, and you'll find they don't. They fit the label, but they don't fit the stereotype. You just have to have the difference clear. Will functioning labels be stuck in stereotypes? They may be fluid, or they may be stereotypes, but you'll never get to point C unless you pass point B, or people recognize they don't need to go to point B in the first place.

I could say Droopy is a LFA, and mean it spitefully, as a stereotype. But Irony is cruel only when the thing that draws it is. I mean it fluidly. She is who she is, and just because she's LFA does not make her lesser. Are we not all equals?

I ask not that you label him. It's just a simple thing, really. There aren't functioning labels to define him, which is why we need functioning labels, so as to be able to define him on who he is, not what he has. Not with a simplistic view of him from a book describing a disorder, not a person. I try to let you see for yourself that a label based on needs, and not on a stereotype that doesn't fit, is the only way a functioning label system could be permissible.

Would you prefer a system where your child can get the help they should get, without being diminished or denied what they need,
to a system where your child's future relies on a fulcrum of either getting what they need and being diminished, or being denied what they need?

A system of functioning labels, properly set up, will define the spaces in between High and Low function and not force parents t choose to either diminish their child for the help they deserve, or deny their child the help they deserve to keep their child undiminished.

Of course, the first steps must be taken, and you never know what will happen until it has happened.

Hm... Perhaps one day, I will. You never know. The future is ever in motion.

It's up to parents and common sense to determine whether the system will reach that point. A system is only as good as the purpose it serves, and the ends don't justify the means. It takes action to make change; Ideas need form before they become something. If you want to get your child the services they need, and not have to diminish them, then a functioning label system based on people, not the disorder, is what you need.

Take it from me; It's not what's expected that counts, but what is done.

JustaMom said...

Sorry; I believed you were another of the bunch that talks about Autism and makes it out to be something it's not by using Aspies and HFAs as examples of Autistics, while LFAs are left to languish as they are expected to live up to the same expectations as are on Aspies or HFAs.

My mistake.


Thank you, I am certainly not part of any bunch - I am my own banana.

The real label needs to be defined.

This is true, but the 'real' label is "Autism Spectrum Disorder". There is no definition of HF or LF in the DSM-IV criteria. Does he meet the criteria to call him autistic, yes. The other terms are, Aspergers or PDD-NOS. Three separate dx under the same umbrella.

HFA was originally determined by IQ - hence applying more to Aspergers than the others. By that definition, my son would be LF. Uh, no.

From: http://autism.about.com/od/whatisautism/f/whatishfa.htm
First, there is no formal diagnosis called "high functioning autism." What's more, there's no agreed upon definition of "high functioning." As a result, while the term "high functioning autism" is often tossed around, it is a hard definition to pin down.

The term was actually coined by a little group of people that wrote an article (DeMyer, Hingtgen, & Jackson,1981). HFA is not a true dx, neither is LFA.

Being diagnosed as Autistic will get you your full evaluation results. From there, it's up to each parent/teacher/doctor/individual to identify strengths v. weaknesses, what do the individual need? There need not be a level of functioning assigned, because the fact of the matter is that this will vary across skills.


It's just occurred to me that we've turned the topic completely around to functioning labels instead, where the initial reason I posted at all was because I thought it was unfair to be 'mean' to anyone with challenges. It seems that I've had to justify the fact that I was speaking!
Go America.

Perhaps Mr. Best, you should have a qualifications test prior to posting comments? LOL.

Irony said...

And I'm just bananas.

Exactly. By not agreeing, you become part of a larger group that does not agree that the label is correct. Therefore, they must look into it, and thus they will have to further expand their labels, lest they be accused of discriminating against your child, and the children of others. By needing change, change is brought about by the actions of those who want change and work toward it.

Mainly I see a system of functioning labels preventing the use of the blanketing of all thsoe on the spectrum with the term Autistic, as there are many who abuse this. Worst of all is Aspies who represent themselves as being Autistic, justify to themselves that they can speak for all autistics, and then proceed to do so. As well, they use it as an excuse if they get called out on something, and make all Autistics look bad. If they want to earn respect, they can do it on their own time, just like any other person.

Good point. Let's return to the original topic then.

Anyways, it may be, but then, not many people who are on Baggs side are kind to Droopy either. It's become kind of a battle of mockery. One side treats Baggs poorly, the other side does the same to Droopy.
Some of the things they've said...

It's a brilliant thing you've done, that you've not chose a side. Now you're clear of having to quote the lines provided.

Anonymous said...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/silentmiaow/898223455/

Lots more pictures on Flikr of a perfectly normal looking Amanda.