Tuesday, December 04, 2007

Insanity Personified, Este Klar


Here is a thread from the Autism Speaks forums that exemplifies the insanity of people who claim there is any "Joy" in autism. Yes, this comes from Estee Klar's blog and was posted by fellow lunatic, Autism Diva.

Estee takes enormous liberties with the truth by suggesting that children who can't talk, read, write or toilet themselves have even the slightest concept of self-esteem. These severely disabled kids are concerned with spinning in circles, jumping up and down, stimming, watching videos, maybe riding on a swing, eating and not much else. I guarantee that no severely autistic child has ever considered his own self-esteem. This is an insane notion that an insane cult tries to transpose onto the children to further their deranged agenda.

Estee goes on to further discredit herself by making the unbelievable claim that "...recognizing that his challenges may be the very things that enable his gifts and may have formed much of his unique personality." This person must be on some great drugs if she can meet any low-functioning autistic kid and come away with the impresion that anything that child does can be considered a gift. Get real, lady! I suppose you'd try to make innocent people believe that the child who smears feces on the walls is a gifted artist. This woman is so crazed, I wouldn't put it past her to actually try this. And then she has the nerve to talk about personality, what personality? Yes, severely autistic children smile as innocently as babies. Even as they age, their smiles are so innocent that they are still very cute. But, and this is the part that Estee's mind in outer space misses, these children are very much just like babies, even at 21 years of age. They haven't been able to pay attention to anything long enough to form any sort of personality. They simply exist.

More inane rhetoric follows with Klar claiming we need to listen to the kind of assistance that autistic people feel was helpful to them, as kids. First of all, autistic people never make any such statements. Most of them can't speak. Some people with Asperger's may have some useful insights here but claiming that autistic people can do this is nothing but a lie to enhance the agenda of saying the most ridiculous thing that can be imagined in an effort to prevent anyone from curing an autistic child.

Klar, Autism Diva and the rest of the psychopaths from Neurodiversity refusee to distinguish between people with Asperger's who have earned PhD's and low-functioning autistic children who can't write their names and probably never will. This is part of the scam of the Neuroinsane. They continually trot out misfits who claim to have Asperger's and call themselves autistic. This is a lie and they know it. There is no good reason that they should not make this important distinction.

Neuroinsanity will call anyone autistic who claims to have a high IQ and is inept in social situations. The fact of the matter is that it is impossible to measure an autistic person's IQ because you could never get them to take the test. They might eat the paper or scribble on it but the chances of them answering even one question is zero.

Estee Klar goes on with some other nice sounding rhetoric about disability rights. Then she takes her best stab at obfuscating the truth by stating that "being autistic does not need to be characterized as a devastating condition". Autism IS a devastating condition!! There are no ifs, ands or buts about it. Autism is a 24 hour a day horror show. These kids scream in pain, bash their heads against cement, bite themselves and Estee Klar doesn't think any of this is a devastating condition. What planet are you on, lady?

Estee loves to use words like "accommodate", "acceptance", "inclusion", "enable" and "joy" in talking about autism. All of that is a crock. Nobody accepts it when a kid is screaming for half the day and knocking himself out by bashing his own head. That kid can't be included in anything. These kids need lots of help, not acceptance, or idiots howling about the "joy of autism".

Estee has the nerve to tell us that her kid has the right to be a contributing member of society, as though anyone would try to prevent that. This nut thinks she is doing some good for her autistic kid by clamoring about disability rights. At the same time, she isn't doing anything to help the kid reach a level of functioning where he will have the slightest chance of contributing anything.

I'm sure glad I didn't have a mother like Estee Klar. She probably would have sent me into a hockey game with high school kids when I was six and started bitching about accommodations when a puck took my head off. What a wacko!

That, folks, is the essence of Neurodiversity.





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26 comments:

Anonymous said...

Her child did not progress with ABA so she has decided to accept his fate. Well good for her then. I will not accept my kids' fates though, even though there have been setbacks.

I don't see this woman as being on the level of the Diva, since she at least tried to do ABA and it did not work.

Fore Sam said...

Maybe Estee's kid is more severe than she lets on. ABA will not work with kids who are too spaced out to pay attention to anything.

Anonymous said...

Who wants to be normal ...
No one who considers himself "above normal".
I doubt LFA's come under this category.
HFA's often feel the world is fitted wrong for them. The problem is that its too easy and its easy because the others have set it up too easily cos that's all they can do. So HFA's are show off's in aspects they can do and they look down upon everything else they cannot or try to change it. In the world of relationships its really hard to navigate.
Confusing HFA vs LFA is a good way to keep your child miserable.
Need to meet him at his level +1. Kids and adults acquire self esteem via success. Denial, deflection etc etc dont make for a happy kid or adult.
Cool.
Srinath.

Anonymous said...

The saddest part of this is the fact that hundreds, if not thousands of parents will read this tripe, give one form of therapy a shot for a few weeks, or months, then throw up their arms & shout "Oh, what a joy, poop on the wall again."
Yea, lets celebrate the joy of shit on the walls. Come on everybody, get your party hats!

These are the people that say we just want to find someone to blame.
I'm not blaming anyone. My child couldn't detoxify his body. That's not anyone's fault. It's just the way things are.
At least I didn't give up & try to gloss things over by trying to say there is anything of even the slighest ammusement to be found in cleaning poop off the bathroom wall.
Or "Oh, look, johnny's put another hole in the wall with his head, isn't that cute, get the camera, honey!"
Children gain self esteem when they accomplish a goal, a set goal, understood to bring about a desired result.
A personality is a trait exhibited by someone with the ability to communicate thoughts & ideas to the others around them.
LFA aren't even aware of the people around them, much less communicating anything meaningful to them.
This is, without a doubt, a super sized case of denial.
Her child is doomed to live a life of pain unseen and needs unmet by a parent that is so lacking in fortitude that she's just given up all hope.
So let's celebrate everybody!
Here's to existance without meaning!
Here's to screaming in pain while mommy takes pictures of the fucking joy!
Here's to contributing to a society I don't even know the first thing about!
Este, here's a little note to you.
Self esteem begins with self awareness. Without self awareness, self esteem DOES NOT, CANNOT EXIST!!!

"Klar, Autism Diva and the rest of the psychopaths from Neurodiversity refusee to distinguish between people with Asperger's who have earned PhD's and low-functioning autistic children who can't write their names and probably never will. This is part of the scam of the Neuroinsane. They continually trot out misfits who claim to have Asperger's and call themselves autistic. This is a lie and they know it. There is no good reason that they should not make this important distinction."

Yes, John, there is a very good reason to blind themselves.
It's called denial. And denial is easier to live with than the truth.

Anonymous said...

Este Klar is a crackpot - the stupid woman is so screwed up that she can't figure out that ABA works. Oh no, Adam is regressing because he can say his ABC's now and is not in a fucking coma chewing on the furniture. Wah!Wah! my poor Adam isn't autistic so I can't draw attention to my wonderful bullshit existence. Wah! Wah!

Anonymous said...

And from past posts, where she bashes ABA, she sounds like she has gone through numerous ABA providers. The ABA teams probably couldn't take working for her and quit.

Hey Estee, when your kid is 21 years old hope you still consider him cute because no one will want to work with him then. I certainly hope no one listens to this woman's advice. She sounds like a rich snob who is more concerned with herself than anything.

Anonymous said...

Exactly, she basks in her son's autism as some type of trophy that was awarded at a disability contest. It's a disability you fucked up bitch, not something to be trumpeting as "wonderous" - theese kids need educational and medical services not a fruit loop cheerleader.

Joeker said...

It's this ridiculous misrepresentaton of Autism that makes so many of the problems. I could say I'm autistic, misrepresenting myself under the blanket term, or I could be honet, and say I'm an Aspie. It's this distinction that needs to be made. It'd certainly take a lot of the Aspies who "advocate" by surprise, if they were to be stripped of their excuse.

So many people use it to obfustacate things, intentionally, and unintentionally. It's a major headache trying to sort it all out.

There should be a petition to establish this kind of differentiation. I'll get to work on it later.

mrs. spock said...

I'm on my break here and had to say something. This is going to piss a whole lot of people off but it needs to be said anyway, from a point of being intellectually honest.

I have Asperger's, officially dx'ed (not one of these self-dx'ed Internet Aspies), and I think it is, actually, different than "classic" LFA autism. At one time I was a supporter of Neurodiversity. After being around awhile, I don't know if I can rightfully call myself that anymore.

I'm not saying Asperger's is some superior race, either, it's just a variant. It may probably not be caused by mercury. But it may probably not be "classic" autism.

When I was a kid, I was a bit odd. I flapped a bit, had a hard time making eye contact, socially awkward, but I also have a genius IQ. I never smeared poo or self-injured, though. My oddities mostly came out as being "the little professor". I was in special ed, eventually mainstreamed, and being bullied drove me to try to be successful in life.

It took me some years to find employment (tech job, big surprise) where I can maximize my strengths and minimize the social/sensory deficits, but I have it now and not only am I not on assistance, I don't ask for special accommodation. I don't think I'd want to be "cured" but I've also learned how to make a few sincere good friends and so on. In all, people can tell I'm a bit odd but I live a fairly good life.

Living with Asperger's every day, and having been to some gatherings of adults, parents, and kids, I speak from experience that honestly, it does look very, very different from LFA. I think that the DSM may have gotten this wrong, as the DSM is riddled with BS errors (like different varieties of personality disorder that didn't exist 50 years ago). I am wholeheartedly against Big Pharma because a lot of their medications cause bad side effects and they deliberately lie about it. For example, I have friends who took Zyprexa and developed diabetes within a year's time.

I'm not going to debate the mercury issue, but I really don't think anymore it's my place to tell parents how to raise their LFA kids so long as they're not being abusive or deliberately harmful. I can give some tips for parents of Asperger's kids if they ask, in terms of coaching, but none of the Asperger's kids I've ever seen smear poo or self-injure, they can talk, etc. Sometimes I have a hard time verbalizing under stress but I'm still verbal. Some of the LFA kids I've encountered do look quite a bit different than the Asperger's kids.

I think people really need to not come on your blog and flame you as it doesn't make their side look good either. I don't see logic in personal attacks on either side, but I do think it's not my place to tell you how to raise your kid. I think ultimately you want to help Sam and even if I might disagree about the way to go about it, it is not my place to tell you what to do or what not to do, esp. when I've already said I don't think Asperger's is quite the same thing.

I think people with Asperger's who are reading this and getting defensive need to realize that the world is not entitled to bow down and kiss anyone's behind, disabled or not, and everyone needs a measure of personal responsibility. I have gotten sick of some of the Neurodiverse I've seen around, thinking that the government is obligated to provide an income for them (for deliberately not working), and that they *have* to have super-speshul accommodations in the workplace. If someone is applying for a customer service job, it goes without saying they are going to have contact with the public. You don't tell your employer you need to not be around people AND have a service dog there to boot. Unfortunately I'm not really joking about this. Most of the people with *real* Asperger's I've met do hold jobs and don't want people to feel sorry for them.

I don't think your interest is in curing people who are not a drain on the government and not otherwise hurting anyone. I don't know what I'd do if I had a classically autistic child, and though I think showing loving acceptance is good I'm not against trying to get a child more functional, to survive in the real world.

I hope you find some way to help Sam have a shot at a good life. I also hope you find some way to de-stress because parenting any child is not an easy thing. :)

Anonymous said...

Wow, Mrs. Spock.
That was a refreshing, delightfuly honest post.
I have watched the self diagnosed internet aspies lie about the condition of true autism for so long that I've grown numb to their BS.
Thank you for your post. Voices like your's need to be heard. Helping to dispell this myth is needed in society, especially during this time of increased awareness.
False information regarding these 2 very different conditions needs to be stopped in its tracks before more misinformation is heaped on children and families that already have far too much on their plates.
Please continue your writing, it's brave souls like you that help to set the record straight.
The people behind the ND movement are self indulged whiney jerks that wouldn't know true autism if it bit them on their collective behinds.
Thank you, and by all means, start your own blog.

Anonymous said...

No question autism and asperger's are different, I just do not want to lose track of the fact the Asperger's is a serious disorder that wrecks lives, especially when it is undiagnosed and untreated. Spock, you seem to be doing well, good on you, but you are the exception.

mrs. spock said...

Thanks to the 2 anonymous people for positive feedback. I was a little worried about commenting here in part because I've mentioned my views before to some adults "on the spectrum" who have called me a Nazi and other names of that ilk, just for suggesting that Asperger's is different and if you want to get anywhere in life you have to work with it.

I think people with Asperger's have the ability to do well but it depends very highly on the quality of parenting and the quality of education. Many of the *real* Aspies I know personally do work. Those who do work have had a bit of a struggle, some are underemployed, but some of them have found highly specialized niche jobs. Like myself. Aspies are generally not going to do well in jobs dealing with the public, but can make good tech geeks, researchers, engineers, and so on.

Success is also very highly variable on the self-pity factor. Once a person starts getting down on themselves they really can't do much. Not everyone with AS pities themselves, but from many of the so-called Aspies that we see online you would think this is the case.

I had some challenges growing up, being bullied, dysfunctional family, and so on. I was raised by a single parent and she told me, "This is the way the world is. Always try your best, and don't rely on other people to take care of you." Asperger's or not, everyone needs to take responsibility for their actions and find their way in the world, if they are capable of doing so, and people with Asperger's are capable of doing so. If it takes a little extra work that's better than just saying "I can't do anything, poor me," and then collecting a government check the rest of your life.

The "curebies" don't want to cure people if they're just a bit odd and otherwise are not a drain on society. It's possible for people with Asperger's to not be a drain on society, but it takes work.

For this reason, I'm not entirely against self-diagnosis provided a person is trying to figure out what's going on with them so they can live a more productive, fulfilling life. Some self-diagnoses are later on tested by professionals and prove to be accurate. The key here is understanding what educational and employment opportunities are going to be appropriate. I am completely sick of self-dx'ed Aspies who want to whine about how much their lives suck and clearly have no idea what Asperger's is.

I'm not at all trying to say Asperger's is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and offend family members who are struggling with Aspie kids/siblings/etc, but it's not cancer, it merely is, and so long as you know what's going on, you can make adjustments accordingly. I have a routine for housework, for example, when I'm not on the job. My husband is another *real* Aspie and he agrees with me about this: it takes work, not whining about special treatment.

I'm, again, not presuming to speak for those with LFA because I think that's something different. I expect to be torn a new one by Neurodiversity for saying this, but having some flapping/rocking and social awkwardness, sensory issues, is really not quite the same thing as not being able to talk, screaming, smearing poo, biting yourself, and banging your head.

I don't think I have the right to speak for LFAs or their parents. The nail finally hit me on the head when I was at a meeting of adults, parents, and children and a parent was asking me questions and I asked if she thought I should be cured and she said, "If my son JUST had Asperger's I'd be happy."

I've seen LFA kids and I've seen my own experiences and other Asperger's adults/kids I know. It is very, very different. I'd say Asperger's is probably closer to ADHD, or something entirely different, and is most likely not autism, but I don't have an MD and will not presume to speak on behalf of doctors and scientists either :)

Have a good evening, everyone.

Joeker said...

Mrs. Spock, I applaud you.

Anonymous said...

I'm just wondering what good the personal attacks from one 'adult' to another 'adult' are doing for the good of the children?!?

A little less infighting might be beneficial!

anon said...

Great thread!

Anonymous said,

"Her child is doomed to live a life of pain unseen and needs unmet by a parent that is so lacking in fortitude that she's just given up all hope.
So let's celebrate everybody!
Here's to existance without meaning!
Here's to screaming in pain while mommy takes pictures of the fucking joy!
Here's to contributing to a society I don't even know the first thing about!
Este, here's a little note to you.
Self esteem begins with self awareness. Without self awareness, self esteem DOES NOT, CANNOT EXIST!!!"

WOW, well said!
Your whole post was right on the button!

I would so love to wipe the glued on "SMILE" off this vacuous womans face!

Fore Sam said...

Ender,
I delete your comments because you keep making false accusations. You also don't understand what's going on here. People like Estee Klar are intentionally misrepresenting autism as something that it is not. If this idiot would define her categories properly, I would have no problem with her clamoring for respect, inclusion and all the other stuff she talks about.

With Estee, I have always left the option open that she is just too stupid to understand exactly what she is doing. However, anyone who opposes curing autism and uses bogus rhetoric to do so needs as many slaps in the head as it takes for them to either shut up or alter their message so that it does not confuse the matter.

If you want to discuss these specific issues, I'll allow your comments. If you want to keep posting gibberish that is off topic, that will be deleted.

Fore Sam said...

Anon,
There's no in-fighting going on here. Sane people are simply pointing out the insanity of everything associated with Neurodiversity.

Anonymous said...

Oh yea I forgot, There is a lot of Joy in autism for Estee Klar. Everytime a child is autistic, her joy knows no bounds, I believe it sounds like Kaaaa-chinnng ... kaaaaa-chinnnnng ...
Cool.
Srinath.

0mercury said...

Autism sucks. These children are ill. It is like saying I am so happy and proud my child has cancer. That makes him/her special. Changing subjects for a sec., I have to say I am glad to know I am not the only one who has to deal with shit on the walls. Cleaning up a 9 year olds BM's Is far from cute or joyous. I think before ABA to work or any other technique, you need to address the cause. Heavy metal toxicity. Chelation is a must. Also stop vaccinating your children!!!!

Anonymous said...

" Anonymous said...
No question autism and asperger's are different, I just do not want to lose track of the fact the Asperger's is a serious disorder that wrecks lives, especially when it is undiagnosed and untreated. Spock, you seem to be doing well, good on you, but you are the exception."

If you people are so upset with people calling aspergers autism then why don't you just call what your kid has "Kanners Syndrome" that's the facy name for it. Why don't you call them "Kanners" and quit bitching about how peope use the collective title "Autism"?

Pedantic or what?

Anonymous said...

"Heavy metal toxicity. Chelation is a must. Also stop vaccinating your children!!!!"

Yes! I want the measles too!

Anonymous said...

"0mercury said...
Autism sucks. These children are ill. It is like saying I am so happy and proud my child has cancer."

Why should you care that someone else has found happiness? No one is stopping you from chelating your children, so stop telling people how to feel about themselves. That is very selfish.

Also, no, it's not like cancer. Cancer is a FATAL illness and destroys the body. Autism is tolerable hugely by comparison, also saying stupid statements like "It's like cancer!" is immature and undermines the severity of REAL diseases!

"Changing subjects for a sec., I have to say I am glad to know I am not the only one who has to deal with shit on the walls. Cleaning up a 9 year olds BM's Is far from cute or joyous."

My heart goes out to you but you need to understand that when people say "I'm proud to be autistic", they aren't saying " There's nothing problematic about having autism". They are saying "Despite the problems I face, I am what I am and I always will be that". Don't feel insulted just because this is how they cope with their reality of the problem!

You need to communicate what you define as a cure
. Some people put their kids on medication for gut problems and say that it's a cure, but it's not. Remember that people have different ideas of what autism is. Is it the personality and generic behaviour or is it the harmful behaviour?

"Heavy metal toxicity. Chelation is a must." NO!IT!IS!NOT! Stop pressuring people to take these stupid therapies! Let them choose like you have chosen! Therapy is a good thing but you people can't distinguish between the actual autism and the co-morbid conditions. You all seem to have this "one size fits all" attitude, here.

"Also stop vaccinating your children!!!!"

Bite my ass bitch (if you excuse my profanity)! How DARE you tell people to stop vaccinating their kids! If people can't get away with telling you to vaccinate, then what gives you the damn right to push people into YOUR way of thinking?

And everyone on this stupid blog should grow the hell up! Stop gossiping about other people and help your goddamn kids!

Foresam said...

Anon,
You are angry, and stupid. That's not a good combination. You should fit right in with Estee.

Anonymous said...

" Foresam said...
Anon,
You are angry, and stupid. That's not a good combination. You should fit right in with Estee.

Mon Feb 18, 10:24:00 PM EST"

Angry and stupid, you say? That's funny because what are you? Oh yes: ANGRY AND STUPID!

Plus, that's a very empty statement to make especially when you have nothing to back it up. Is somebody stupid because they don't believe in a theory which most scientists don't believe in anyway? No. Is somebody stupid because they don't believe in all these bizarre and very fake conspiracy theories about Autism? No. Is somebody stupid because don't have black and white attitudes towards neurodiversity? Absolutely not!

And why shouldn't I be angry? People who only come by this site to have a debate with you are being caught up in this pathetic "Curebies VS Nitwits" war!

You're quick to accuse and bully people but you never think "Oh, maybe I should just respect their opinion".

For christs sake! You people are fully grown human beings with families but you consume most of your time with the lives of others! Aren't we all just a little bit sick of hearing about Amanda Baggs? Wouldn't the police like to know about your little obsession with Kevin Leitch's daughter?

I wish you would write more about your progress in helping your family. I mean, if biomed is saving you kid, how come you aren't writing about his improvements? How come we aren't getting news on how you are coping with autism? I'll tell you why- because you're not coping with it and because you are seduced by that feeling of hopelessness, this blog couldn't possibly help anyone.

I hope it is taken down. It is NOT the only site that advocates biomed, so it wouldn't be a loss to anyone, would it?

Foresam said...

Anon,
All scientists know that mercury caused the autism epidemic. That's why the ones who work for the CDC and Pharma are trying so hard to pull the wool over our eyes.

Anyone who believes one word that is said by Neuroinsanity is dumb as a rock. It is nothing but a sham to convince people not to help their children.

Claiming I have an onsession with Leitch's kid just makes you another anonymous simpleton.

And, I'll stop talking about Amanda Baggs when she stops the con job she is trying to pull along with her disgustingly ugly friend, Laura.

Anonymous said...

Those monkeys look like Diva Roo, and auntie Em. All ugly and all hairy