Monday, December 01, 2008

Autism Ripoff, Dr Kurt Woeller

Here's the link to Dr Woeller's site. As you can see below, for almost $500, you can look at Woeller's site.

Group Status: Open to All
Membership Criteria: None
Full Access Membership: $37.00 per month or $397.00 per year paid in advance
New Full Member Fee (one time): $97.00


Woeller seems to have it all figured out on his website for us so that he can have the site take care of the patients for him while he pockets $500. You can download prescription forms and all you have to do is bring it to a real live doctor for a signature. Of course, you have to pay the live doc for an office visit, maybe $80 for the minute it takes him to sign the form plus the cost of the prescription or lab work. Meanwhile, Woeller has your $500 for letting his site direct you to a live doctor. I wonder if I could find a live doctor by looking in the Yellow pages for less money?

I usually go here without paying $500 for the same information, maybe better. It would cost me $134 just to look at anything Woeller has to say to find out what kind of protocol he advises for chelation. So, I can't say if his advice is any good or not. It doesn't look like you can pay for Woeller's advice by having an insurance company pay for your membership to his site so it's probably much cheaper to see an actual live doctor who insurance might pay for. The last time I saw a DAN doctor, I think it cost me $300 but he could sign prescriptions in person and tell me what I needed to know without having to go see someone else at greater expense later.

Kurt Woeller, you're a real fucking humanitarian, aren't you? Wow, only $500 to learn what we can find for free all over the internet...dirtbag.

Someone came here to defend Dr Woeller. Some simple arithmetic shows that if he enlisted as many members as the Autism Mercury group (almost 8,000), Dr Woeller could grab himself about $800,000 just for allowing people to join his site. That does not include the monthly fees. That does not sound like a humanitarian motive to me.

21 comments:

M and Ems Momma said...

Wow! As a mother of a patient of Dr. Woeller's I feel like I need to comment on your post. My son has a diagnosis of Autism and we are following a biomed protocol and have seen tremendous change and improvement in my son's health and Autism symptoms since seeing Dr. Woeller. I had heard Dr. Woeller about a year ago on a Great Plains Webinar and he was the one who really opened my eyes to yeast overgrowth and also viral issues which we feel are contributing to my son's ill health and Autism. Dr. Woeller was no nonsense, practical and has a true desire to help families interested in helping their children. I tried to find a DAN! Doctor locally to avoid a trip to CA (we live in AZ) but really Dr. Woeller's philosophy on the treatment of Autism resonated with me. I took my son to see Dr. Woeller in June of 2008 for the first time. Since I am originally from San Diego, making a trip out there was not a huge deal for us, but it could be for many families. Since then, I attribute many of my son's successes to the help he has provided, I refer to him as our family's compass, helping us decipher all the test results that paint a picture of my son's health and genetic makeup and to navigate how to fix some of the things that seem to have gone wrong biomedically. I had the pleasure of hearing the why's behind this site, AutismActionPlan months ago while it was in development. Dr. Woeller's desire was to set up a site that could help families without easy access to a DAN! physician or without money to see one (here in AZ they regularly charge around $400 per hour and a normal first time visit not including tests is going to run you around $1000). This site was intended as a way for those families in more remote places to at least have access to the tests that CAN help determine the best course of action in fighting Autism in their unique child. I have had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Woeller for hours about my son, his philosophy on treating kids on the spectrum and about why he got into Autism treatment and do know he is in it for the love of these kids and to help their families. If you have access to a DAN! Doctor that you are happy with then maybe the site isn't for you. But, for many families I think it is a GREAT resource. I already see Dr. Woeller and I am a member. He also will have guest speakers in the DAN! community on the site and videos on feeding, how to get supplements into picky eaters, how to give Methyl B-12 injections, and I could go on and on. All of this is very valuable for families without easy access to such physicians and who may want to know more. It is also valuable for people seeing a DAN! who maybe isn't as thorough or does nto explain things well. This info can be referenced 24/7. And to have a DAN! doctor moderated message board and to get another slant on the Biomed protocol is valuable as well even if you do see a DAN! Doctor. So, I hope this was a simple case of not knowing much about Dr. Woeller and making an erroneous assumption. I know there are many "snake oil" salesmen (and women) out there regarding "cures" for Autism and all that, it can be hard to navigate what is true and what is false. But, I have VERY high regards for Dr. Woeller, I would not trust the health of my child to someone without it. I value his years of experience and fully believe he is helping for the joy of it. Do I think he deserves to make money for his experience and education? Absolutely. And if you are happy where you are then certainly this site is not for you, but please don't discount the site for others who may need and appreciate it. If you'd care to hear my slant on Dr. Woeller in general you can check out my blog. Here's the link from when I had just come back from seeing him.

http://thirning.blogspot.com/2008_06_01_archive.html

I also have other posts about him, the recent DAN! conference and also his site.

I am just one mom with my one opinion. But, I think to be fair, others should read about an opinion from someone who does value Dr. Woeller and his site. I hope that helps you understand the site a little better and maybe have a different viewpoint. And I do regard Dr. Woeller as a humanitarian. Sorry for such a long post. I appreciate you letting me share my opinion.

Foresam said...

I'm glad you're happy with Dr Woeller and that your kid is improving. However, one can gain the same information from Andy Cutler at the link I provided for free. So, I think Woeller is a thief for trying to charge parents for the same thing. I mean, he could at least let you see some of what he has to say without paying him $97 just to join his site.

One can also go to Generation Rescue and talk to about 300 different Rescue Angels for free to see how they have recovered theur kids. This guy is just preying on parents as far as I see it.

Anonymous said...

Hello Mr. Best.

Wow. I don’t normally post on blogs but I have to tell you, you could not have formed a more incorrect opinion of Dr. Woeller. For one thing he is not simply “pocketing the membership fees” then sitting back sipping margaritas on a beach somewhere. He is answering each post in great detail, constantly updating and adding information to his website. I can assure you Dr. Woeller is not a man motivated by money. His heart really is in treating these children. His goal is to motivate and empower parents to take the initiative themselves and his website allows parents to do just that.

You mention yourself that you spent $300 to see your DAN doctor in person. Great! Fabulous! That was for a 1-hour visit I assume? For $397 you get access to Dr. Woeller for an entire year. That’s a smokin’ bargain if you ask me. I have a good friend in Vancouver, Canada with a 3 year old son with Autism. She can not find a good DAN doctor in BC, at least through Dr. Woeller’s site she can get some direction from an experienced doctor.

The prescription forms are to help educate traditional doctors, most of whom are clueless when it comes to biomedical treatment. Before we found a DAN doctor for our son, my local pediatrician was calling me at home, on weekends, to ask me for advice regarding testing for her other ASD patients. I was like you, on yahoo groups looking for pieces of the puzzle. Granted there is a lot of information out there for people if they have time to search the boards. Dr. Woeller’s website just makes it SO much easier for families starting out. I only wish the site was available a year ago when I began this journey.

I now consider myself fairly well educated on the subject of biomedical treatments for ASD however, each time I visit Dr. Woeller’s website I seem to learn something new. AutismActionPlan.org is an amazing wealth of information. Hours and hours of lectures, instructional videos and tutorials, photo examples. Information relating to diet, supplements, resources, testing … I was astounded by the amount of work that has gone into making the site.

Before we started working with Dr. Woeller, we were with one of THE TOP DAN doctors in the country. The minute I met Dr. Woeller, I KNEW he was the one to help recover my son. He is just so balanced and has such a common sense approach to treating his patients. He actually READS every one of my son’s test results (which is more than I can say for our previous DAN doctor) and if he doesn’t know the answer to something he finds the answer. He is a fantastic doctor and does not deserve your criticism.

Dr. Woeller has told me numerous times, “I don’t treat Autism, I treat the underlying medical conditions of each child”. My son has made fabulous improvements since we started working with Dr. Woeller. I am 100% convinced my son WILL recover with his help. He is already well on his way.

MS.

storm said...

I am really sad for you! I do not understand how you would feel this site is a rip-off! I have to agree with these other parents who see Dr. Woeller. After my first DAN! Conference I felt overwhelmed with the idea of finding a competent DAN! Dr. There is so much information out there I felt I would have to know everything in order to know the Dr I was choosing knew what he/she was doing. Now that I have Dr Woeller's site autismactionplan.org I don't feel that way. Here is a competent, well qualified physician who is answering my questions within hours of it being posted and you have the audacity to say horrendous things and deter parents from possibly avoiding the site based on your limited knowledge of the site. How can you do that?

I really feel you are trying to influence parents in a most detrimental way. This site may not be for you but it is working great for me. I have put my confidence in this man to help my son end his autism. My husband was shocked at what you have said as well since he too hopes Dr. Woeller's new site will continue to be a success because of the benefits that he has gained as a father.

My reasons for encouraging parents to join this site are:

1. The information is researched, accurate and up to date.
2. As a member Dr. Woeller is personally answering my questions.
3. There are live video chats where I can see Dr. Woeller face and receive an answer to my questions.
4. The lectures are so informative and I can watch them as many times as I need.
5. Dr Woeller has a great reputation and he is caring that caliber into his website.

I could go on and on...
To sum up my opinion of what you have said, No autismactionplan.org is not a rip-off it is a legitimate place for parents to go for accurate information. Not everyone has hours to spend researching and with limited time but much needed education on autism I choose to support Dr Kurt Woeller DO and his website.

Please don't allow your bitterness to hurt others.

Foresam said...

Aside from wealthy Americans and Europeans, the majority of people with autism can not afford Dr Woeller's information. This bastard is making himself very wealthy with the same information that is available for free elsewhere. Children with autism are being left to starve to death while this guy profits.

Maybe you rich folks haven't noticed that millions of autistic kids are suffering horribly. No government or medical group is doing a damn thing to help them. I don't see autism as a money making opportunity. I see it as a worldwide crisis and I think everyone who has some answers ought to give it out freely. Fuck Dr Woeller!

Anonymous said...

Amy Yasko does the same thing. Charges an unbelievable amount of money over and over for more and more information that can be found elsewhere.

M and Ems Momma said...

Then you should be saying "fuck you" to Dr. McCandless for selling her book (and others who have books out there), and fuck all the speech therapists, OTs, music therapists and DAN! doctors out there who charge to see patients. I don't think that is appropriate at all. I will agree with you on the value of message boards, I learned most of my info up until the time I met Dr. Woeller from boards like the one you linked to so I can appreciate that resource. I know some of those same people on that list (from other lists) and respect them deeply. Like myself, many are parents who gave up lucrative careers to focus fulltime on figuring out how to get their child healed and have done exhaustive research on their own. But, in the same vein they are only parents providing the data THEY found. I got a lot of conflicting data (and even some erroneous data!) from boards like that one. With Autism Action Plan Dr. Woeller has the most recent research and ability to speak to other doctors and specialists in the field, that is something other parents do not have to offer. I am not discounting the wisdom of parents, I would be discounting myself since I run a blog to try and help other parents too. But I did not go to med school (some days it feels like it though!) and I make it clear my blog is about what worked for US. Dr. Woeller answers EACH post with up to date data and real answers that are appropriate for YOUR child, not someone else's and he can advise you if a supplement you do give causes an unusual reaction (as we have had happen). I do not know of ANY free list (including Dr. McCandless' LDN Yahoo group) that can boast that. Most groups moderated by doctors do not answer all questions posted. I feel better knowing it is HIM answering rather than another mom who has not had that reaction in her child. Years ago while on those boards I would agonize over what supplement to give based on another mom's response and wonder if I was doing more harm than good. I never really knew what to believe and what dosage to give, what was safe, what reacts with another supplement or medication etc. Dr. Woeller answers on the weekends, in the evenings, taking time away from his own family. His site doesn't just work during banker's hours. He was even answering posts on the recent holiday, not the kind of thing you'd expect from a greedy person just out for the money. And by the way, I am NOT rich, far from it, I won't go into what we've had to do to afford all the therapies and supplements that DO work for our son. But, I do give my hard earned money to Dr. Woeller because he's worth it, because my child is worth HIS experience and help. So the people you SHOULD be angry with are the pharmaceutical companies, the FDA and the USDA for letting us consume shit and lying about ingredients and for pumping drugs into us and our kids that have contributed to this problem. They are the problem, and they are the ones making millions while our kids suffer and doing NOTHING about it. If anyone in the world deserves to make money it IS the people dedicated to helping our kids, the good doctors and the good therapists out there who live and breathe OUR children along with us. I have pissed money away on bad DAN! doctors and therapists and it sucks. Do I wish I had access to a specialist 24/7 for free? Of course. But that is not life. We pay millions to ball players and big business and yet our therapists and special ed teachers are paid in peanuts. The society is royally messed up. But that is not Dr. Woeller's fault. $37 per month is pretty cheap to get real answers about your child from a doctor. And he is not "preying" on parents. We all have free will and can choose to be a part of the site or not. I don't plan on changing your mind. And this will be my last post because I respect that this is your blog and your opinions and do not intend for this to become a pissing contest at all. Nor do I want to keep bringing this negativity up in relation to a good doctor trying to do good work. I share your frustration, however, I think yours is misdirected. I think Autism Action Plan will be a great resource for CERTAIN people. Maybe you are not one of them. But, I hate to see it discounted for those it can help. Dr. Woeller is one of the good guys, regardless of the opinion you seem to have formed about him. You should sit in on one of the many (FREE) webinars he does through Great Plains Labs, check out some of his (FREE) you-tube videos about nutrition and health and Autism support. Check out his other website for FREE info on health related topics. He does offer a BUNCH of FREE opportunities to learn more about how to help your child. Autism Action Plan is just another vehicle, more personal because you get to post and have him answer directly, to help you heal your child. But it is not his only way of helping and if you learned a bit more about him, you would find that he does a lot of FREE stuff to help our community.

Foresam said...

M and M's,
You're free to say whatever you want.

I don't begrudge doctors making a good income.

Making the millions that he can earn while millions of kids fall be the wayside isn't right in my book. Woeller is not the only one I take issue with either.

How many kids have died because their stressed out parents couldn't deal with the autism anymore and killed them? Why aren't all of these DAN doctors jumping down the throats of politicians to force them to stop this insanity? Why don't they join together and blast the AAP and Pharma? No, they help the few people who can afford to pay them. If you can't pay them, they don't give a damn. They're no better than the profiteers who poisoned our kids to begin with if they won't take some action to stop it all.

I think every kid deserves treatment, even the ones who live in shacks in the third world. Doctors like Woeller have had 9 years to tell their colleagues to stop poisoning babies.

Why aren't these doctors marching into Congress and demanding that this insanity end?

storm said...

I would in no way consider myself rich. I am wearing my Wal-Mart jeans, my Costco 3 to a pack tank top and shoes that have some bad holes in them.

Sadly the utopian society ideals you speak of do not exist today. According to you all health care should be free and I'm all for that but it's not reality. No politician will ever be able to correct these injustices.

Your blog is a little too hateful for me. If I embrace hate I will have nothing left to fight for.

Anonymous said...

Woeller learned about autism about 3 years ago from a flyer he received in the mail. I have the guy on video saying that. He's not even a real doctor. These people are stooges.

Foresam said...

What does DO stand for?

M and Ems Momma said...

I know I said I wouldn't post anymore but I do agree with some of what you are saying. More should be done all the way around to get action to help our kids.

Also, DO stands for Doctor of Osteopathic medicine. Traditionally DOs have a more holistic, mind body approach than traditional MDs.

And as for Anonymous-I am no stooge, I am however brave enough to post using my OWN name and info, not anonymously. And yes, he is a real doctor, his license info is clearly available off the state DO medical board website. Do a little more research and a little less trash talking.

AutismDad said...

I first came across the concept for Woeller's website when his brother was trying to recruit affiliates to market it on an internet marketing membership site.
I called him on the fact that I felt reducing autism to an affiliate program was disgusting. A couple of other autism parents also slammed him and the scheme appeared to have been dropped.
I just looked at the site and see the affilate program is offered. This is an IM tactic and, IMHO, is not appropriate in this situation.

This whole setup leaves a bad taste in my mouth. As a parent and being involved in autism groups, I understand how desperate parents can get dealing with this disorder. I feel this desperation is being preyed upon with this program.

Anonymous said...

Dr Woeller does good and is definitely on the right side in this war.

However that does not excuse this blantant profiteering.

Looks like he has learned a trick or two from another profiteer that he has been working with for years - yes you guessed correctly, William Shaw.

My DAN doctor stopped charging me for a while when I lost my job. Not saying that is the standard that everyone must uphold, but the pay-per-view website is clearly the opposite side of the coin.

Tacky dude, totally tacky.

Anonymous said...

I have a major, major, major problem with criticsm of Woeller's website. The costs are stated right up front when you fill out the form, and if you don't like it - go somewhere else! It's a free country! But for people who don't live near a good DAN doc, this site can be a godsend. And John, most people - particularly those new to autism - are not able to go to your yahoo group and figure out from there exactly what to do and in what order to help their kid. That is very unrealistic advice.

Your effort to turn people away from a doc practicing biomed is a huge mistake and is not helping children - which is your whole objective, isn't it? My DAN doc costs $250 per quarter, so Woeller's plan is half the price per year!

And you say people have to pay $80 to their doc to get him/her to sign a prescription?? poppycock!! First, most people have insurance plans and second, an appointment may not even be necessary.

Please consider deleting this particular blog. You have no evidence that it is a "rip-off." Most people are not a do-it-yourselfer like you are. To suggest people just contact Andy Cutler is unrealistic. Biomed is more complex than just chelation. And Woeller was with Great Plains Labs, so he obviously knows his stuff.

Please don't stand in the way of docs who are actually practicing biomed.

Would you prefer parents go back to the pediaquack and get the kid loaded up on Risperdal? Choose your battles John! You're on the wrong side here.

And I"m not associated with Woeller and I've never met him. I'll send you an e-mail so you'll know who I am. I'm a mom on your e-mail list. :-) And I'm usually in agreement with you. But not this time.

Anonymous said...

p.s.
Many DAN docs do much of their advsing over the phone due to the fact that their patients come from far away. It seems to me that Woeller's methods are probably better than a fast phone call - certanly not worse.

Foresam said...

Since I'm not going to pay to find out what Woeller's protocol is, I think I'll leave the criticism here. For all he tells us, he could be advising people to use leeches to suck the mercury out.

Foresam said...

You do realize you have zero credibility without the email you never sent, don't you? That's doesn't make Woeller look credible either.

curious George said...

guys I don't mean to interrupt but who's DAN and why is he brought up so much in autism?

Foresam said...

Not Hating,
Thanks for not having the guts to tell me who you are while you give me grief? It let's me know you're a jackass.
The same info that Woeller gives out is available free elsewhere. Woeller's just a greedy prick who should be happy with the money he makes from his practice instead of branching out to take money from autism without even bothering to examine the patients.
You aren't allowed to come here and defend this lowlife without backing up your opinion with your name.

Not Hating said...

Why would I want my name associated with a cynical dumb fuck like yourself?

I see that you are okay with shitting on Dr. Woeller, but not okay with publishing my post.

You'll get yours...