Monday, January 29, 2007

An Autistic Woman Celebrates Brain Damage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnylM1hI2jc

This is supposedly the way one autistic person interacts with the world. Evidently, this is normal for her. Well, certainly nobody can understand her moaning and finger squirming. It reminds me of someone on LSD.

The problem here is that this autistic person doesn't want to talk. It seems the Acid trip is permanent. Unlike LSD users who come down to normalcy when the trip is over, this person wants to stay in her world, far away from normalcy.

I have never tried LSD so I can't comment on the effects but it must produce something that people enjoy because many LSD users will take it more than once. I'd love to hear from anyone who has used LSD to see if they agree with my assessment.

There has to be a way to get inside the heads of people who want to exist in this altered state of consciousness. They have to learn what life can be like when they are not off on an Acid trip. Sure, everything isn't beautiful and normal people don't think of washing their hands as interacting with the water. In normal parlance, many would refer to those on LSD as vegetables. That's why some of them decide they can fly and jump off roofs. They have lost their connection with reality.

Society does not recognize using Acid as a good way to go through life. I can understand the perspective of someone who enjoys this escape from reality and wishes to embrace it once in a while. It's not much different from the alcoholic who chooses to stay drunk all the time though, if one opts for using Acid every day.

Amanda Baggs is off in her own little world where she takes some joy in interacting with the water and playing with her fingers. If she is permanently disabled by having her brain trapped in this different reality, society must accomodate her. Society does not however, have a responsibility to accept this condition without trying to ameliorate it. That's why we have places for drunks to dry out and drug users to kick their habits. We recognize that people who are all screwed up from using these drugs have ruined their lives. We do not encourage people to turn themselves into vegetables.

Amanda and other strange people from the world of neurodiversity think we should leave people alone who are off in this other world and just let them vegetate. I suppose they think it would be a good idea to provide free booze and drugs for those people who would like to escape reality permanently too.

I disagree. I think people who are all screwed up on drugs or booze deserve a chance to regain their lives. I think children whose brains are a mess thanks to mercury should have that mercury removed so they can think straight. Being on a permanent Acid trip like Miss Baggs is no way to go through life if it can be avoided. It is not a complicated thing to understand that there is a different language going on in her head. The solution is not to accept her brain damage. The solution is to fix that brain damage if possible so people can exist in reality, not off in the clouds, set aside from the rest of humanity.

80 comments:

Jonsmum said...

Wasn't LSD used in medical experiments decades ago. It was given to non schizophrenic subjects to induce symptoms of schizophrenia and learn more about the condition.

They did a similar experiment more recently with mercury and the man ended up in a coma.

Anonymous said...

What a brilliant way to look at it.

Anonymous said...

you know-
I watched this last week. then I had my 8 year old son watch it with me. I wanted him to see, really see just how severe autism can be. I wanted him to understand why we tried everything possible to not let his brother end up like that. There were times when he was younger and his brother was getting all of the attention and effort from his mom and dad that he felt left out. And that was hard. But he saw for the first time ever what we saved his brother who is his best friend from, and as he sat there watching it, he was just silent. After he thought about it for a good while he came up to me out of the blue and hugged me and told me he understands and thanked me for not letting his brother "be lost". Then he went and built a fort in his room for his little bro, and surprised him with it and they had the best time ever. Ever since he has watched that video he has been so much more loving to his little pesky brother and on maybe 3 different occasions just keeps saying "mom I am so glad Elliott is here and he is ok".

It was a long haul, not without strees and drama-but this being the end result is way worth it. I am thankful that there are options out there like chelation. I am thankful that I live in an area that supports trying to find the underlying causes of things and not just medicate the symptoms away. People chelate here just to be healthy-to rid their bodies of the toxins that build up over time. Our local hospital has an entire holistic medical wing. And before we even had our son tested for mercury, before we even knew for sure, even his pediatrition suggested "cleansing" his system somehow because autism is a bunch of symptoms from something poisoning the body and brain.

That woman on the video did not look happy to me. At least not my definition of happy, or Websters, or any other source. She was probably told long ago that this was who she is and she needed to accept it. There should be a way to let these individuals live for just one day as typical people do-to see and compare their autistic state of mind, and the neurotypical state of mind. Only then would I believe that they know what they are talking about when they say that they would rather be autistic. Becauser they do not know any different. That is why they are "happy".

eddie said...

Looks like she's having fun. Why not let her? Or is that too hard for you all?

Fore Sam said...

Eddie,
That doesn't look like fun to me. It looks like brain damage which is not fun.

eddie said...

It doesn't look fun to you because you don't understand.

Jonsmum said...

"you know-
I watched this last week. then I had my 8 year old son watch it with me. I wanted him to see, really see just how severe autism can be. I wanted him to understand why we tried everything possible to not let his brother end up like that. There were times when he was younger and his brother was getting all of the attention and effort from his mom and dad that he felt left out. And that was hard."

I have watched this video, but not with my 7 year old son. I think it might upset him to see severe autism in an adult, and associate this with his autistic little brother.
However in maybe a year or two I think I would be helpful for him to see it, for the same reasons you have expressed.
Thankyou, I would never have thought of this.

Anonymous said...

jonsmum-

I had to really think about it. I just felt that it was time. There is a big change in maturity when these kids turn 8 for some reason. Like I said-he had somewhat of a hard time for a few years-nothing major but he has really developed a relationship with his brother over the past two years and it is one thing to TELL him what autism can be like, and another to see it. And it was such a moment when we both sat there and watched it. I will always remember that. I know he will too. I think you will know if/when it is time for you do do something like that. I know that a year ago I would not have let him watch it. He was not ready.
It was hard for me to watch the first time even. Very hard. And I am thankful-every day that we are where we are and I would not change a thing hat we have done to get here.

jypsy said...

Nobel Prize genius Crick was high on LSD
when he discovered the secret of life
"some Cambridge academics used LSD in tiny amounts as a thinking tool, to liberate them from preconceptions and let their genius wander freely to new ideas. Crick told him he had perceived the double-helix shape while on LSD."

Mich said...

Shez, you're starting to make me think of my own kind as brain-damaged. I've always thought of Fore-Sam as a bit of a nazi, though, and I even have an unscanned drawing showing Fore-Sam's remains at the bottom of a volcano after being neatly eaten by a guy named Kaku with a caption along the lines of "And so I had heard that Nazis taste just like chicken parmesan. And so I tried it, and that evening, Fore-Sam was no more."

Seriously, Foreskin. You make my blood boil, you make me twitch, you make my arms wiggle and my hands flap in disgust. Us autistics have sensory overloads, whereas you can't sense anything around yourself, even when normal people'd sense something such as after farting...

And I also noticed you've deleted "Just Your Typical NTs" from the page it was posted on.....I think. You really piss some of us off, and you're starting to mess with my mind until the day when I fill my bloodstream with water and formaldehyde as a form of 'home chelation' and end up almost dying.

I'm sure I irritate you, since you're the most bigoted person I know of off the top of my head. John Worst. (Hey, who hasn't wanted to make that pun?!)

David N. Andrews MEd (Distinction) said...

Low blow, John. All I have to say on the matter. Low blow.

Fore Sam said...

David, Every video she makes is an argument against herself. Someone had to put the right "spin" on it.

Anonymous said...

Are you responsible for this woman, Foresam? If not - get of her back. It's none of your business.

David N. Andrews MEd (Distinction) said...

Wrong, John...

Way wrong.

Wrong 'spin' entirely. Totally a low shot, and one that misses the target by miles.

She isn't celebrating 'brain damage', per se... she celebrating being herself. That's no offence at all to be mischaracterised for.

Contrast her honesty about who she is with Crick (quote from jypsy's post): "Crick told him he had perceived the double-helix shape while on LSD."

As I understood the history of the development of the double helix structure of DNA (part of my studies in the biological aspects of behaviour was genetics and chromosomal stuff, and this issue made an intertesting find at the time), the double helix structure was first mooted by Franklin after analysis of her data rather than by Crick on an acid trip! Considering that Crick was probably 'normal' himself (such as normal really exists!), I'd say that ballastexistenz is a more integrated person than Crick is (at least in regard to his own experience of what one would think would have been a defining moment in his career).

Naturally, I don't expect you to agree, and that's not my purpose in stating this. I'm just hoping that this activiates a 'okay, fair enough' reaction in you. That's all.

No name calling here, and no insults given or intended... hopefully, as grown-ups, we've managed to demonstrate clearly that it is possible to get past all that.

Talk to you later, John... work to go to now.

Anonymous said...

What is that video supposed to teach us? I see no educational value in it. I've seen hundreds of autistic kids do things like that. Is watching that supposed to offer some insight into the autistic mind? All it made me do is feel sorry for Amanda. I ouldn't watch the whole thing. Who would want to live like that?
John, I saw another video of her typing on her communication device. Do you think it is really "her" thoughts? I'm not convinced it really is her. How, sad if the ND are propping her up to appear like she has all these thoughts and immense intelligence, but chooses to spend her time playing with water, and seeking out other sensory stimulation. Nobody would want to live like that, nobody.

Fore Sam said...

Anon,
We know she has low intelligence since she won't investigate a cure. Who do you think puts the words in her mouth?

Fore Sam said...

David, I think we need to hear from someone who's done LSD to gain a proper perspective. Leitch admitted to being a drug user. Maybe he will comment.

Eddie said...

David, I think we need to hear from someone who's done LSD to gain a proper perspective.

You, maybe?

Anonymous said...

eddie,

Pay attention, John said he never did LSD. Did yo mama?

Anonymous said...

Holy crap! Kev posted something from that freak Kent Adams/Christschool. Are you kidding me? Kev is going over the edge... Kent Adams is pychotic. Kev should be embarrassed. I made it through about 1 minute of Kent's "video"... what a crazy person... Kev should be proud.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, I made a comment to that effect at Youtube but the lowlifes deleted it.

elizabeth said...

Mr.Best

I have read through these threads, and I must say that you are demonstrating yourself to be a very volatile individual. Your level of volatility will end up getting you into some rather serious trouble if you keep it up - as several anonymous contributors have already crossed the line and threatened you. I don't approve of such things, but you have behaved in a manner that attracts such statements.

You have made it clear that you hate Autism. Clearer than clear. And there is no doubt that you refuse to be shifted from that view. That is your choice. You also have the right to do what you believe is best for your son - that being treating him for mercury poisoning in the belief that it caused your son's Autism. So to anyone who criticises Mr.Best for this, you have no right to do so.

However, Mr.Best, you have also been attempting to tell others how to behave. As much as people have no right to tell you what to do - equally you have no right to tell them. They have just as much right to believe what they believe as you do. If people choose to live with Autism and all it's relatives, you have no right to attack them for that choice. That is why they attack you because they see you as fair game. So it would be best to stop - you are only causing yourself needless trouble. No matter what you say, they will not change. They have the right to ignore you. And you have the right to ignore them also of course. And yet you will not allow them that right.

You can try to dictate to other parents and adults with this problem all you want. It is doomed to fail. Your limit of influence is profound, and it extends only to those that you have the right to dictate to. In your case that is your children. No one else. You are not a qualified physician, so you are not even entitled to give medical advice. In your hate, you are becoming something of a meglomaniac when it comes to curing Autism. You need to step back, and let others who are qualified - such as Andy Cutler - to do this work. You need to concentrate on your son. Do not dictate to others how they should run their lives and make choices. You can not stop them from making what you see as the wrong choice. You are entitled to your opinion and to express it. But you have no rights beyond that.

By law, you MUST allow the likes of Kevin Leitch, Kathleen Seidel, Phil Gluyass, Michelle Dawson and anyone else that I have neglected to mention to make their own choices. Kevin is in the United Kingdom, Phil is in Australia and Michelle is in Canada. They live under different laws and there is no constitutional right to free speech anywhere except in the United States. So they have the right to censor you as their countries laws allow it. You may not like it. You may believe that Kevin is doing the wrong thing by his daughter. You may believe that Phil and Michelle will benefit from chelation. They do not. That is their choice, and there isn't a thing you can do about it. Accept that fact at least, and move on. They don't post here - unless you are correct about Phil posting under other names although that has been denied by some of them. But I don't see how you can tell as you can not access the IP addresses of each message. I know this as I used to have a blog here before I moved to Live Journal.

It would be best if you leave people like the one in the video alone. You can hate it all you want, the person is an adult. Legally you can't touch adults because they have the right to make their own choices. Yes - even if they have low intelligence. They choose to be who they are. Just leave them alone if that is what they want.

I wish you all the best in your efforts with your son. There at least, you have the right to do what you are doing. And if it seems to be working - good for you.

Fore Sam said...

Elizabeth,
I'll be happy to leave the neuroknuckleheads alone when they all shut up. Until then, whatever garbage they put out with their idiotic ideas concerning autism needs to be opposed.
You see Liz, these people are touting outdated nonsense that harms children by trying to keep their parents ignorant of the fact that mercury caused this epidemic. I don't care if these morons don't want to help themselves. That's their business. However, there are tens of thousands of children whose parents need good information to help them. The media won't put that truth out there for parents to learn so I'll keep putting it in public as often as I can so some kids may benefit from that knowledge.
If I offend anyone, I don't care. Anyone who gets in the way of curing this nightmare called autism needs to be slapped down in public and I'll be more than happy to do that.

elizabeth said...

John this is why you keep getting attacked. You frankly admit to "slapping" people. So you have to expect to be slapped back. It appears to me that many do not see Autism as a nightmare. You can disagree with that, but you can't make anyone else agree with you. Why can't you accept that?

The media won't transmit anything that hasn't been verified by the government. Yes, I know you'll say the government is corrupt and all that jazz. But it's not up to you to prove this. That's Andy Cutler's job because he is qualified. Talk to him about the media.

Anyway - what is the truth? You have your view and that's okay. You firmly believe it. But there are people as qualified as Andy Cutler that do not agree with you. Until the mercury poisoning theory is thoroughly proven scientifically it's no more a theory than the genetic line your opponents preach. That's a theory as well - it's just been around for a lot longer.

As for not caring if you offend people, that is why you have been threatened. You have offended people, and one day - if you haven't already - you'll offend the wrong person and possibly end up in a coffin at worst. And who will look after your son then? I think that's much more scary than anything else you or anyone else could claim - Sam without a father.

Do you want that?

I certainly don't want to see anyone die. Who does? But you are courting it, John. Seriously. Please stop being deliberately offensive. For you son.

Fore Sam said...

Elizabeth,
All sane people agree that autism is a nightmare. It's only a handful of nuts who think otherwise.
Is this supposed to scare me? The people I offend are such cowards that they won't even face me in a battle of words over the internet from across oceans.
Nobody is as qualified as Andy Cutler to discuss chelation. Those who claim such are simply trying to prevent children from being cured. Cured children are the vaccine manufacturer's worst nightmare.
I have news for you, Liz. Mercury poisoning has been proven. It has been proven by every child who has been cured. Those numbers continue to grow and your misguided opinions won't slow that growth.
I don't expect to convince crazy people to try to make themselves sane. I just try to counter their misguided opinions.

Anonymous said...

John,
Does Elizabeth know something we don't? Is there a contract on your life? Has someone hired an assassin to terminate you?

Are the neuro-dispicable plotting to snuff you out?

Could you picture the crew discussing their scheme?

I'm laughing just thinking about those loons, losers and dulusional pinheads conspiring..hahaha

Anonymous said...

Elizabeth-

Why do you care? Why are you posting here? Why waste your time? Why would John end up in a coffin? Who could even find him? He is entitled to his opinion, and this is HIS blog, so just go away and don't read any of this if you are so "offended" by what is posted here.
Just
go
away.

seriously.

Squeaky said...

"All sane people agree that autism is a nightmare. It's only a handful of nuts who think otherwise.
Is this supposed to scare me? The people I offend are such cowards that they won't even face me in a battle of words over the internet from across oceans.
Nobody is as qualified as Andy Cutler to discuss chelation. Those who claim such are simply trying to prevent children from being cured. Cured children are the vaccine manufacturer's worst nightmare.
I have news for you, Liz. Mercury poisoning has been proven. It has been proven by every child who has been cured. Those numbers continue to grow and your misguided opinions won't slow that growth.
I don't expect to convince crazy people to try to make themselves sane. I just try to counter their misguided opinions.
"



And you're somehow magically sane, Nazi-Man?! If everyone agreed on everything, then we'd all be robots.

You make me ashamed to be human, Fore-Sam. Honestly. Many of us autistics don't wish to be human, due to the standards 'normal' and 'sane' people impose on us when we're just....different.

Most of the cure reports are faked. Improvement is always blamed on whatever's convenient while overlooking almost everything else, chelation-worshipper.

Cured children are a myth. Cured adults are, also. It also make me sick to look at a bunch of non-autistic peers of mine all agreeing on everything and acting like bubbleheads while a million things run through my mind, to hear a crowd of people singing about one common goal. Gradually, I'm feeling more and more alone nowadays, and perhaps certain nazi-ish people are to blame as well as me being an outcast almost all my life.

You're hopeless, Fore-Sam. People who are unwilling to learn the other side to things, who choose to be ignorant, who believe that all jobs are social, and who obviously have been assimiliated into this world just depress us. They make us feel like the world's against us, like we're the objects of ridicule that need to get our blood removed to be able to fit into society, as if that actually boosts our confidence. (IT DOES NOT.)

Whereas autism can be a nightmare, I say Fore-Sam is a tragedy. He seems like he has perhaps lost hope, and all because his son's so different form himself. Reasoning with Fore-Sam is like reasoning with a member of the Hitler Youth must have been.

Donna said...

jypsy said...
Nobel Prize genius Crick was high on LSD
when he discovered the secret of life "some Cambridge academics used LSD in tiny amounts as a thinking tool, to liberate them from preconceptions and let their genius wander freely to new ideas. Crick told him he had perceived the double-helix shape while on LSD."

29 January, 2007

I have never heard this! My dad is mentioned/referenced in the book The Double Helix by James Watson (other guy who won the noble prize for DNA)gets x-mas cards etc over the years since then...

My father worked at Cold Spring Harbor Laboratories in NY in the summer which is a science think tank and hmmm.....not a single word about LSD to us kids over the years....hmmmmm....

Seriously, I am going to ask my dad about this LSD thing...

Donna

Fore Sam said...

Squeaky, Aren't you celebrating the joy of autism? I thought the neurodiverse were dancing in the streets celebrating their diversity.
I know your side of things better than you do. You can communicate while my kid can't. Stop feeling sorry for yourself.

kamikazeChris said...

Autism isnt a "nightmare" sure autism has alot of down sides and problems, but autistics are absolutly not "nightmares" And if it were for the aspies that existed the human race would still be in the dark ages. Most of the world's inventors (most but im not saying all) have some form of autism, I could go on and on making a list but that would take days.

anyways, i have "severe" autism, i do not speak but i learned to use a keyboard to communicate, Im a great person, Im not a nightmare. And when people say it is, it hurts alot. I get good grades and im a great soccer player, i happen to play for one of the top five teams in the state of Michigan.

Sure i might not win the award for best conduct or the most friends, and I may stim and have sensory issues. But hey, i might get a full ride scholarship somewhere. My autistic brain allows me to formulate plays and runs in the matter of seconds while my NT teamates do not have this ability, also my autistic like threshold for pain is a big plus.

Autism is not a nightmare, autism is beautiful, it just takes some some people more time than others to embrace this beauty. Sure we may look "brain damaged" or "mentally retarded", but we have the ultimate inner beauty, too bad no one cares about inner beauty

Jonsmum said...

Anon;

"Are the neuro-dispicable plotting to snuff you out?"

Recently, there have been a few comments on this blog that were/are "death threats".

Whether they were serious or not, they are sick, and presumably quite worrying for John's wife, (if she knows).

Whoever you are, I suggest you consider this man has a wife and three young children.

If you don't like what he is saying you have a choice not to read it.

Anonymous said...

kamikazechris,



What school do you play soccer at in Michigan? I'm sure you get a lot of press, right? Non-verbal, proficient on a keyboard and an awesone soccer player. Because if you are as good as you say you are and have "severe" autism well I say move over Jason McElwain. Play your cards right kid and Hollywood will come a knockin.

If you are all that you say you are, you are an exeption, not the rule of autism.

Hey, if things don't work out with the soccer scholarship, you should hook up with Amanda and have a stim-fest. Check out her ideo on you tube John posted.

Fore Sam said...

Kamikaze Chris, Do you want to be able to talk? Have you tried methyl B-12?

Anonymous said...

I saw a video on you tube by an autistic woman who was stating that silent mieow was a fraud. I have read her blog and I think she does embellish alot. I mean how many thing happen to one person? I know adults with autism who do not seek attention off line who have not lived the through the chaos she claims and they are much older. I think she is seeking attention and dramatizing things a bit. I believe she is autistic but I think she has developed her skills for attention.

Fore Sam said...

I asked Droopy about this but she didn't answer me. It's anyone guess what the truth is.

Anonymous said...

kamikazeChris

"anyways, i have "severe" autism, i do not speak but i learned to use a keyboard to communicate"

It is wonderful that you have an ability to communicate! You may not be able to "speak" but you have found a communication system that works for you- you have the ability to be understood. You were able to share your opinion and express your ideas in your comment.

However, not every person with autism is able to communicate. They have difficult making their wants, needs and desires known. There are many individuals with autism that do not have the ability to state their opinion let alone make simple requests or even let someone know that they are in pain.

There are many people with autism that continue to struggle to be understood.

Not every person with shares your experience.

I seriously doubt that the autistic individuals who engage in self-injurious behavior or aggression because they are so frustrated with their inability to effectively communicate (or get others to understand what they are communicating) see much beauty in autism.

When you look at something like autism you need to be able to see the negative along with the positive. You can not pretend that negatives do not exist.

Autism does not just affect the individual. Autism affects all of the people around him/her as well.

You are right some days "autism is beautiful" but other days it can be a real nightmare.

KamikazeChris said...

i dont score any goals, i defend, and my highschool team sucks, my club team is good. so i'll never get any press coverage, and if i did i'd turn them away. I hate the cameras and people talking to me. And i'll keep my location a secrete so i dont get stalked, kidnapped, rapped, then murdred.

elizabeth said...

John, of course you see Autism as a nightmare. You have seen the effect it has had on your son and it frightens you as would any nightmare. Everyone is frightened by nightmares. But one person's nightmare is another person's gift of life. Another person's dream. I'm not making any attempt to scare you, and I apologise if you felt that way. I was referring to the threats that have appeared on this blog - and the anger that has also appeared even since I posted last night.

I don't doubt Andy Cutler's qualifications to discuss chelation. I never did. My point is why is he being ignored? The reason is that - to the authorities - mercury poisoning hasn't been proven at all. It's just another theory. Of course you will say it's proven because of what you have seen with your son. That's perfectly reasonable. But personal experience doesn't equal proof. And I don't think cured children is a nightmare to vaccine manufacturers at all. They produce the material for chelation as well do they not? I don't think they will lose as much as you believe if this is indeed a cure for Autism. I don't appreciate my opinion being called misguided as I am entitled to it. I have not at any stage abused you - I am trying to help you.

I don't expect to convince crazy people to try to make themselves sane. I just try to counter their misguided opinions.

If you don't expect to convince them then why even bother? Countering their opinions will only make them angry. Autistics need rotuine, right? What do you think will happen if you try to interfere with it? I think you've seen it on this blog with all the angry replies, threats and so on. I agree with Jonsmum - it was sick and perverted and will not achieve anything. But it was a warning nevertheless no matter how wrong it is of just how much anger is being created amongst Autistics. I'm seeing a great deal of desperation from the posters commenting in here against you, John. People desperate to stop your abuse of them - not stop you from chelating your son and supporting others who do the same thing. I never criticised you for that, remember. My criticism has been aimed solely at your conduct towards others who have made a choice that contradicts your opinions of Autism and mercury poisoning. And I am concerned for your son because of the potential consequences of your actions. Remember the boy in Boston who knifed a fellow student for example. What is to stop that happening to you - especially as it seems someone knows your address (I don't really want to know that address was correct or not - but if it was I would be extremely scared if I were you)?

That is why I am here. To help you - which explains my presence to the anonymous poster who asked. I am not offended by this blog overall. I am merely concerned about some of it's contents. That's all.

Anonymous said...

"KamikazeChris said...
i dont score any goals, i defend, and my highschool team sucks, my club team is good. so i'll never get any press coverage, and if i did i'd turn them away. I hate the cameras and people talking to me. And i'll keep my location a secrete so i dont get stalked, kidnapped, rapped, then murdred."

I thought you would respond this way....

Fore Sam said...

Elizabeth,
Cured children are a nightmare to vaccine manufacturers because cured children can testify in court. That will cost the manufacturers everything they have. There is all sorts of other proof but children cured by chelation are undeniable and indefensible.
Again, I don't care if my words anger people. When their anger abates, maybe they'll learn something. Professionals dealt with autism the wrong way for about 60 years before we learned the cause. It is taking those professionals a long time to learn that everything they thought they knew was wrong. It's important to dispose of those obsolete methods that adult autistics are hanging on to.

Anonymous said...

Elizabeth-

You act like John has all of these "posters" locked up in a room some where and is beating them with a stick. If they do not like what he says, then they should not post here and not read what HE posts. It is as simple as that. Just like you, they could very easily just go away.

But they don't. They obviously enjoy the banter and love to post their thoughts. These are just words, and anyone who comes here and gets offended can just leave. There is no abuse. No one is being help captive. Your a complete idiot if you think that. You are still here-posting your babble-Why?
Do you feel abused? If you do, then go away. This is a blog for Gods sake-not a prison camp.

Anonymous said...

I've taken acid a couple of times in my younger days.
It's far from a pleasant experience.
You may get the giggles for awhile and see undulating colors or patterns, but it's all down hill after that.
You are simply not in control of your own thoughts and feelings.
It is a powerful mind bending drug that can induce delusional feelings of grandeur, or irrational fear and paranoia.
You certainly cannot think or feel rationally.

I can confirm that you could experience something like "interaction with water" but
if autism is similar to the feelings and subsequent behaviour of someone on LSD, then Amanda Baggs would not have a cat in hell's chance of maintaining her blog and writing posts as lucidly as she does.
It just could not be done.

But then there are some severely affected autistics who have many unpredictable "irational fears" and do not like, or are scared of certain familiar people, for no apparent reason.
Autistics are also known to view colors differently and to experience hallucinations, so there may be something in it.
After all, doctors were diagnosing autistic children with "childhood schizoprenia" before "autism" was discovered and named, and doctors learned a lot about schizophrenia by using LSD to induce the symptoms of this mental illness.

Fore Sam said...

Anon, Thanks for the info on LSD. Since we see that Amanda's brain works like someone on Acid, it's probably a good bet that someone else maintains that blog. We also hear her machine talking for her on her videos while she's wiggling her fingers. So, who makes the machine talk while she's wiggling?
We also know that Amanda can not think retionally or she would seek a cure.

elizabeth said...

John, the vaccine manufacturers will defend themselves succesfully if there isn't any scientific evidence to back up the evidence of the children, so presenting the cured children as evidence will really make no difference. And don't forget, the government supports thimerosal because it allows vaccines to last longer and keep the expenses down making all vaccines affordable. So they won't react without scientific evidence either. Anecdotal evidence - even if it's true - won't be admitted.

And the anger will never abate. The autistics are so desperate they are seeing people like you in the same light as the criminals who blew up the twin towers. Has the anger towards them abated? I don't think so because of the effect it has had our freedom world wide. Autistics see people like you as a threat to their freedom. Now I expect you to laugh that off, and that is your right. But that is why they see you as dangerous. I can not understand why you don't take the threats seriously!

Anonymous - you are correct. That is exactly how Autistics see John. And they won't stop posting because they are offended and until that offence is admitted to and apologised for I don't see it stopping. And why should I go away? I'm not offended. I don't feel abused. Autistics do, and they defend themselves the only way they know how. The Internet has given Autistics a voice they would not otherwise have, and they are using it. You speak as though they don't have that right. Denying them that right would be clear abuse.

And this blog may not be a prison camp in the literal sense. Autistics see it as a blog run by a prison camp owner.

Please understand that I am not trying to take sides on the issue of mercury poisoning causing Autism. I don't know either way. Autism does not affect me personally and I respect the fact that John considers Autism a nightmare. I also respect the fact that Autistics consider it a Godsend.

Good night.

Anonymous said...

And i'll keep my location a secrete so i dont get stalked

Good for you, Chris. Foresam admitted on the senate thread that he stalks so the less he knows about your personal stuff the better!

Bet this message gets modded out!

Fore Sam said...

Kamikaze Chris has been under surveillance for some time.

Anonymous said...

Elizabeth

"Autism does not affect me personally..."

What is your experience with autism if it does not affect you "personally" how does it affect you? You seem to have quite the opinion about it.

I think you need to understand that autistic adults who have the ability to communicate (via spoken language or through the use of assistive tech devices) do not speak for everyone who has the diagnosis. They should not be viewed as representatives for children who have autism. Your comments suggest that you assume that people with autism all experience life the same way. This is not true.

Keep in mind that people who have autism are not all the same because they have autism. People who have autism are as unique and varied as people without autism. I take offense with your continued efforts to clump people who have autism into one category of "autistics" and make generalized assumptions about how they think and feel.

elizabeth said...

Anonymous I have an opinion on all disabilities. It upsets me to see them treated the way they are without exception. I try to understand everyone and I think of myself as a loving person and I won't think badly of anyone unless they are convicted of a horrible crime.

No I am not assuming everything about the life experience of Autistics. I apologise if I gave the impression that I was. I was referring specifically to the Autistics posting in this blog. I never suggested that they were the voice of all Autistics - although John isn't helping matters by putting across the impression that they do.

It is curious however that all disabled people seem to react aggressively when their inabilities are challenged. It happens in different ways of course, but the aggression all comes from the same place - people who don't try to understand. Did it ever cross your mind why there is so much hate in the world? I'm speaking generally. Why must we hate people who can not help being who they are?

And before you say it, John, you know that a lot of Autistics don't want to change. You've seen it in here. They don't believe in this cure, and they have accepted and embraced their differences. You may disagree and believe that is insane, but no one has the power to make them change their minds. Just love or respect everyone for who they are, and only worry about your son. Trying to get involved in the affairs of other people will only give you ulcers. It's not worth the risk.

Fore Sam said...

Elizabeth, You must not be aware of the history between neurodiversity and sane people. Neurodiversity started this battle by trying to tell sane parents not to cure their autistic children. Now they spend all their time doing character assassinations on the scientists who help these children. My counter attack on them is simply self defense.

elizabeth said...

I rather think I am more aware of the dispute than you are, John, as I have said. And just for the sake of the debate, why should you "sink to their level"? And I don't understand how you can ascertain some of the comments on the blog as needing self defence. I would hardly call some of your attacks defence of yourself or your son. Some of them are, that is certainly true. But you won't get what you want out of it. By trying to talk to them like that you are really behaving like a tyrant. Please stop.

Anonymous said...

Don't bother, Elizabeth. Trying to talk sense to this dude is like trying to talk Bush out of Iraq - in one ear and out the other.

Fore Sam said...

Elizabeth, If you really think you can convince me to stop anything, you'll have to give yourself some credibility by using your real name. It doesn'tlook like you have the guts for that.

Jenn said...

“No I am not assuming everything about the life experience of Autistics...I was referring specifically to the Autistics posting in this blog.”

“I never suggested that they were the voice of all Autistics”

Elizabeth, your continued use of the collective term “autistics” suggests that you do in fact make assumptions.

You don't think you have made any assumptions?

It must have been another Elizabeth who made these generalizations……

1. “Autistics need rotuine, right? What do you think will happen if you try to interfere with it?”

2. “...it was a warning nevertheless no matter how wrong it is of just how much anger is being created amongst Autistics.”

3. “And the anger will never abate. The autistics are so desperate they are seeing people like you in the same light as the criminals who blew up the twin towers.”

Was that comment necessary?

What self-proclaimed
"loving person" who wouldn't
"think anything badly of anyone
unless they are convicted of a
horrible crime" would say that?

BTW the people responsible for
911 are terrorists. Please do
not minimize 911 by calling the
terrorists "criminals."

4. “Autistics see people like you as a threat to their freedom”

5. “Anonymous - you are correct. That is exactly how Autistics see John.”

6. “...I don't feel abused. Autistics do, and they defend themselves the only way they know how.”

7. “The Internet has given Autistics a voice they would not otherwise have”

8. “And this blog may not be a prison camp in the literal sense. Autistics see it as a blog run by a prison camp owner.”


And just tonight in your response to my previous comment you said-

"It is curious however that all disabled people seem to react aggressively when their inabilities are challenged."

So according to you "all disabled people" react "aggressively" when their "inabilities" are challenged?

Really?? Do you think about what you are saying before you make ridiculous statements such as this? I believe that many people who have disabilities would disagree with you. I believe that many of these "disabled people" you refer to are capable of non-violent self-advocacy.


If you were defending the rights of adults who have Down Syndrome would you actually call these adults "Down Syndromes?" Would you ever refer to people who have Cerebral Palsy as "Cerebral Palsies?" Would you stoop so low as to call a group of people who have been diagnosed as having mental retardation "retards?"

My guess is -probably not. So please stop referring to children and adults who have autism as a collective group of "autistics" and making assumptions based on your limited knowledge.

Have you read anywhere on this blog where John or any other parent refers to their child as
"My little autistic?" Doubtful. They refer to their child by name or as "my son" or "my daughter."

If an adult states that he prefers being referred to as an "autistic" and not as a "person who has autism" then this is his decision to make and should be respected.

It is not however up to you.

elizabeth said...

I beg your pardon, John? Elizabeth is my real name. Why are you now trying to offend me? It won't work if that is what you are attempting to do.

Jenn, with all due respect, you are putting words into my mouth. Your interpretation of my use of "Autistics" is extraordinarily presumptious. Have I ever said "all Autistics"? Of course not. So I do not mean all. I mean - and always meant - the Autistics that have posted on this blog. If you choose not to believe me that is your choice.

What self-proclaimed
"loving person" who wouldn't
"think anything badly of anyone
unless they are convicted of a
horrible crime" would say that?


Someone who is scared for Sam, Jenn, that's what. And it's not me saying those things. It was the Autistics and/or the supporters of the Autistics who threatened John. I was doing nothing other than bringing the warnings to his attention and wondering why he wasn't taking them seriously when if I was in his shoes I'd be terrified! Not just for himself but for his son who would be left without a father.

And incidentally - as someone who narrowly missed being injured in the London bombings - I consider terrorists to be criminals. Criminals of the worst kind. My uncle was killed by the IRA many long years ago. There is no difference legally between terrorism and criminal activity in my view. They deserve to be incarcerated one and all - not because I hate them, but because that is the law and I accept it.

So according to you "all disabled people" react "aggressively" when their "inabilities" are challenged?

I am yet to observe anyone who hasn't. Maybe there are those who don't but that may well be because they haven't been challenged. Anyway, aggression comes in many different forms - including the lesser attacks on John on this blog - I cite Brett on the politician thread as a good example. That's if he is an Autistic.

My guess is -probably not. So please stop referring to children and adults who have autism as a collective group of "autistics" and making assumptions based on your limited knowledge.

What other word can I use? I do not know of any. They deserve to be recognised as such - and I mean in a positive way. You are putting it as though it's a negative, and it's true that many disabled people are uncomfortable with themselves. But that's only because they are treated with hate and their self esteem is sent on a downward spiral. That's why I don't show them any hate. I do the same to John, and I do the same to you - because everyone is entitled to be who they want to be. By spreading hate - I believe the American term is "hating on" - you are denying these people that entitlement, so the hate is returned. The only way to stop the hate is to stop hating. I don't mean Autism itself. I mean the people who have it and have accepted it.

I suppose the anonymous poster could be right - maybe this is a waste of time.

Fore Sam said...

Liz, What's your last name?

Anonymous said...

Curebies consider autism a nightmare, whereas we consider curebies a nightmare.

A world surrounded by curebies would definitely feel like a nightmare to me.

Oh, and stop deleting posts because you can't find a way to flame 'em, Foreskin!

Fore Sam said...

Anon, You only consider those of us who will help you to be a nightmare because you have been sucked into the cult of Neurodiversity. Your damaged brain is not capable of thinking clearly to understand that a life free of autism would be good for you. That's OK. If your caretaker ever decides to help you, Generation Rescue will be glad to assist. We don't like watching autistics inflict harm on themselves by listening to evil organizations like the Autism Hub and Neurodiversity.

Anonymous said...

We don't like watching autistics inflict harm on themselves by listening to evil organizations like the Autism Hub and Neurodiversity.

Hate it all you want - but damn well leave us alone and stop freakin stalking us, Foreskin! WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS!

And not freaking cult members either - you are the cult member, jackass!

elizabeth said...

Lewis-Thompson. Why?

Fore Sam said...

Anon, You will have to be stalked until you are helped. People with brain damage can be dangerous.

Fore Sam said...

Elizabeth, If you are so well versed in this debate between neurodiversity and sane people, how come I've never heard of you?

Jenn said...

“Jenn, with all due respect, you are putting words into my mouth. Your interpretation of my use of "Autistics" is extraordinarily presumptious.”

I am not "putting words into your mouth" they are your own words copied and pasted from your own comments.

Aren’t you doing the same thing to the autistic adults who comment here? Putting words into their mouths? Did they ask you to make any of those comments? Why do you feel that they need you to help defend them?

"What other word can I use? I do not know of any. They deserve to be recognised as such - and I mean in a positive way."

You do not know of another word to use other than collectively referring to them as “autistics?”
How about using the word “people?”
They are in fact people- you tend to leave that word out. “Autistic adults” is another option. Better yet if you are making a specific statement about or in defense of a person you could call that person by name or refer to the name they post with as you have done with John, myself, and even “anonymous.”

Sadly, I think you completely missed the point of my last comment.

I am not making “autistic” out to be something negative. I am not “spreading hate” as you would suggest. I dislike the isolated use of a label as an identifier for a person or a group of people.

I am not necessarily advocating for extreme political correctness here or the use of “people first language” in fact many autistic adults that I know reject the use of "people first language."

However, there is a difference in making a generalization such as in one of your comments: “Autistics need routine, right? What do you think will happen if you try to interfere with it?” versus making a more specific statement regarding a specific person such as “Dave needs routine. What do you think will happen if you interfere with it?”

This is the frustration I have with the way you chose to word your comments even if you are only referring to the autistic adults who comment on this blog. They are still individuals with their own opinions. They can and do defend themselves when they feel offended. Who appointed you their spokesperson?

Unlike you I do have personal experience with autism. I have taught children who have autism for close to 10-years. Autism can be a very complex disorder to understand and issues regarding autism can lead to very passionate debate. I can understand where both sides of this issue are coming from because of the parents I have come to know through teaching.

You may think that you are “wasting you time” commenting to people that you suggest “spread hate.”

I think that your comments are condescending and preachy.

elizabeth said...

John, because I prefer not to parade my views verbatim all over the Internet. I have only spoken to you here out of extreme concern for you with regard to the threats and the future of your son should those threats bear out.

Jenn, you are a very rude person and it would be best if I did not respond to your comments except to say that you are putting words into my mouth. They are your interpretation of what I said and not what I actually meant. That is all.

Fore Sam said...

Liz, First of all, you don'tknow me. I'm an officer and a gentleman. I'm not the least bit rude.
Neurodiversity is harming children. They don't deserve any respect and I'm not about to take what they have to say lying down.
They defend drug companies who poison babies and knock scientists who help these poisoned kids. They go to great lengths to make lies look believable. They are the scum of the earth. Granted, some of them are victims and just not intelligent enough to see the error of their ways. In this debate, their hurt feelings are unfortunate but inconsequential.
As for threats from known cowards, I have no reason to be concerned.

Jenn said...

Elizabeth
I am not being rude because I disagree with your choice of words. I am not a rude person. I think your comments overall are intended to be supportive and you are sincere in what you say. I was offended by your choice to use the word "autistics" and could not seem to get you to understand this. You responded with what I perceived as condescension so maybe I had to go to an extreme. I apologize if I hurt your feelings but I have seen first hand how the misuse of "labels" can affect people who have autism and their families. People see a diagnosis before they see a person. It is OK to disagree with a person even a person who has a disability. People should not have to walk around on egg shells and not express their opinions because they are afraid of offending someone with a disability. People who have disabilities do not want or need pity from anyone.

elizabeth said...

Neurodiversity isn't harming anyone, John. The harm is - if you are correct and I am in no position to say if you are or you aren't - the mercury poisoning and the associated lies. Here in England the MMR vaccine controversy has received a lot of publicity. I happen to believe that neurodiversity isn't a bad thing. But I can't make you agree with me and unlike other people here I won't try.

But something still worries me. You seem to think that the threats are coming from "known cowards". Do you know these people enough to know they won't carry out their threats? I think you'll find the sort of people who would carry out such threats are cowards, so if you don't know who they are I'm very very afraid that you are wrong.

So do you know who these people actually are? And I mean individually not as a group. If you do, then you may be safe. But if you don't my warning and plea for you to take defensive action stands - for your son's sake as well as your own.

Jenn, I accept your apology. It's true that disabled people generally hate labels, but that's only because of what the label can lead to, whatever it may be. I try to show the positive side of labels and it does exist. Most of the Autistics who post here don't seem to have any issues with it.

But if John just happens to be correct about Autism being nothing more than mercury poisoning it may be a lot easier for everyone. The problem is we don't really know - yet. John is convinced of course and that's understandable as he has a son who appears to be benefitting. But as long as the argument continues within the scientific and medical community we'll never really know one way or the other for certain until the argument is settled.

Good night, everyone!

Anonymous said...

Liz, First of all, you don'tknow me. I'm an officer and a gentleman. I'm not the least bit rude.

You're not?????

*Someone had to put the right "spin" on it.

*We know she has low intelligence since she won't investigate a cure.

*but the lowlifes deleted it.

*I'll be happy to leave the neuroknuckleheads alone when they all shut up.

*If I offend anyone, I don't care. Anyone who gets in the way of curing this nightmare called autism needs to be slapped down in public and I'll be more than happy to do that.

*All sane people agree that autism is a nightmare. It's only a handful of nuts who think otherwise.

*Those numbers continue to grow and your misguided opinions won't slow that growth.

*Stop feeling sorry for yourself.

*Again, I don't care if my words anger people.

*We also know that Amanda can not think retionally or she would seek a cure.

*Kamikaze Chris has been under surveillance for some time.

*Elizabeth, You must not be aware of the history between neurodiversity and sane people.

*It doesn'tlook like you have the guts for that.

*Liz, What's your last name?

*Your damaged brain is not capable of thinking clearly to understand that a life free of autism would be good for you.

*Anon, You will have to be stalked until you are helped.

*They don't deserve any respect and I'm not about to take what they have to say lying down.

*They are the scum of the earth.

*In this debate, their hurt feelings are unfortunate but inconsequential.


Each and every one of these remarks from this thread are all rude! I'm sure I could list more from the other thread also! You are no officer or a gentleman, sir! You are a pompous arse! I'll sign you up for a year in charm school if you keep this up!

Fore Sam said...

Anon, Being blunt is not the same as being rude. There's no polite way to deal with brain damaged people. That's why we have loony bins for them.
If they pay attention instead of criticizing, they can learn how to help themselves and their children. It's no fault of mine that they are too stupid to comprehend the obvious.

Anonymous said...

There's no polite way to deal with brain damaged people.

See? You just admitted to be rude! Do you always lie like that? Are you lying about hating autism? What's your game, Mr. Best?

Anonymous said...

Anon, You will have to be stalked until you are helped.

FYI, stalking is illegal, regardless of the stalker's motives. You may therefore wish to reconsider your position on this subject.

Anonymous said...

Listen jack***,
What a horrible way for you to view this lady. She put herself out there so that people will understand autism better and treat those with autism as human beings. She does not choose to be like this, she IS like this and is making the best of it. SHe seems older and probably did not have access to the treatments/therapies available today. SHe is copibng to the best of her ability while also giving us insight into her mind. I applaud her efforts. SHe does not mourn the fact that she is different, she is celebrating her uniqueness. She has no choice. And I bet she would really appreciate being likened to a vegetable. Real sensitive, jerk!!!

Anonymous said...

I like how she takes time out to scratch her neck while she is doing her stimming. I did not think that true autistic people took time out of their episodes to do things like that. John is right-she is an actress and a liar. she may have something wrong with her but she is not as severe as she lets on.

David N. Andrews MEd (Distinction) said...

http://www.picturethisfestival.org/a/winners07.htm

Heh...

David N. Andrews MEd (Distinction) said...

Well bloody hell!

A whole two days' worth of posts just disappeared!

David N. Andrews MEd (Distinction) said...

John...

Your blogger's paying up again... just to let u know...

Kurai-Gaka said...

"Anonymous said...
I like how she takes time out to scratch her neck while she is doing her stimming. I did not think that true autistic people took time out of their episodes to do things like that. John is right-she is an actress and a liar. she may have something wrong with her but she is not as severe as she lets on."

Er, obviously you have never met an autistic before.

Fore Sam said...

Kurai, If you are cured, you may be able to reason logically.

Kurai-Gaka said...

Fore Sam said:

Kurai, If you are cured, you may be able to reason logically.

Ah, you guessed correctly- I have autism. Well, first of all, what you have said to me is so hateful and nasty. How can you be a responsable, caring parent when you act like some ten year old brat on the net? Also, I don't see what I would gain from "curing" myself- I have been getting speech and language therapy for a bulk of my life and I benefitted from that.

Maybe if you tried to be more open minded, perhaps you would be intelligent for a change.

Fore Sam said...

Kurai, You don't have autism. You're just stupid.